Teachers and Discipline

Violence never solved anything.
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To quote Homer Simpson, and to quickly phrase my own point of view, at the same time:

"Who says violence never solved anything? World War I, World War II, the Superbowl..."
 
If WWI solved something, then WWII shouldn't have happened. But history repeats itself and war always happens. Nothing gets solved, and violence keeps happening.
 
I'm not exactly a history buff (by which I mean I hate the subject with a fiery passion), but I do have a feeling I know where you're going with this given Germany's moral beatings throughout and after WWI causing... well, I'm sure you're more aware than I am. Either way, this post is not about those wars.

Though, I do see how whether or not violence solves issues does relate. So, I'll just give a different example.

The Problem: I called my mother a bitch.

The Violence: My father hit me, causing me to fall down some stairs.

The Solution (as a direct result from the violence): I never called my mom a bitch again. Never.

So, now that you've been proven wrong. Maybe you'd care to rephrase your statement?

...violence never solved anything? HA! How silly a thought.
 
OmniscientOnus said:
I'm not exactly a history buff (by which I mean I hate the subject with a fiery passion), but I do have a feeling I know where you're going with this given Germany's moral beatings throughout and after WWI causing... well, I'm sure you're more aware than I am. Either way, this post is not about those wars.

Though, I do see how whether or not violence solves issues does relate. So, I'll just give a different example.

The Problem: I called my mother a bitch.

The Violence: My father hit me, causing me to fall down some stairs.

The Solution (as a direct result from the violence): I never called my mom a bitch again. Never.

So, now that you've been proven wrong. Maybe you'd care to rephrase your statement?

...violence never solved anything? HA! How silly a thought.
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The fact that you intend not to call your mom a bitch again does not mean you will not in the future. It is not a guarantee. We as humans can never fully keep our emotions under control. If you let them get away, you may end up repeating the same mistake again. You may not want to, but that doesn't rule out the fact that it won't happen again.
 
The fact that you intend not to call your mom a bitch again does not mean you will not in the future. It is not a guarantee. We as humans can never fully keep our emotions under control. If you let them get away, you may end up repeating the same mistake again. You may not want to, but that doesn't rule out the fact that it won't happen again.
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While I won't argue that fact, I will say that a single instance of doing it again won't have meant that it wasn't effective. Solving a problem doesn't necessarily mean that it will never happen again, especially in my example. The whole point was that I needed to learn that saying things like that were disrespectful, and I indeed did. Just because it's possible (though not probable) that I may slip at some point in the future, doesn't mean I didn't learn my lesson. Therefore, problem solved.

And I think instead you may be misunderstanding me. I'm not saying that violence is always the answer, or even ever a very good answer to most, or maybe any, problem. What I am saying is to say that violence never solves anything is being far too vague. Maybe violence isn't the best way to solve problems (at least not most of them), but it can be an effective way nonetheless.
 
In your case, the problem could have been solved if you remember to think of what your mother does for you everytime you're about to call her a bitch. Then you will realize that for all the things she's done for you, she doesn't deserve that treatment, you feel bad for her, and you refrain from doing it. Therefore, violence not required. If you give people a chance and talk to them a certain way, then violence will never usually be required. Violence is a rash action, also possibly caused by an uncontrollable burst of emotions, and it is mostly irrational. You would usually only be fighting fire with fire because in most cases, violence only begets more violence.
 
Sephiroth said:
In your case, the problem could have been solved if you remember to think of what your mother does for you everytime you're about to call her a bitch. Then you will realize that for all the things she's done for you, she doesn't deserve that treatment, you feel bad for her, and you refrain from doing it. Therefore, violence not required. If you give people a chance and talk to them a certain way, then violence will never usually be required. Violence is a rash action, also possibly caused by an uncontrollable burst of emotions, and it is mostly irrational. You would usually only be fighting fire with fire because in most cases, violence only begets more violence.
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I would have to agree that violence only makes more violence...when someone hits me, i hit them back....perfect example.simple...but perfect..
 
In your case, the problem could have been solved if you remember to think of what your mother does for you everytime you're about to call her a bitch. Then you will realize that for all the things she's done for you, she doesn't deserve that treatment, you feel bad for her, and you refrain from doing it. Therefore, violence not required. If you give people a chance and talk to them a certain way, then violence will never usually be required. Violence is a rash action, also possibly caused by an uncontrollable burst of emotions, and it is mostly irrational. You would usually only be fighting fire with fire because in most cases, violence only begets more violence.
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Apparently I have to say this again. I do not necessarily believe that violence is always the best answer to most, or possibly any, problem. However, just because it may not be the best way to solve a problem, it is still a viable one.
 
Violence determines who can fight the best, not who was right. As such it's an efficient political tool, but not a scientific or intellectual one. Those societies that have prized the human mind have always walked a fine line between intellectual accomplishments and the blood-and-iron strategems of international policy. Athens vs Sparta, for instance.
 
It is first and foremost important to admit that the whole system of thinking of which the situation in the American schools is biased and wrong, and only afterwards to determine if there are such means to repair what is damaged or to overhaul the whole thing.

the system of thinking that says that children are miniature adults has been around since the Renaissance and it is, by all accounts, wrong. The current system expects children to behave like adults and refuses to punish them when they err.
On the otehr side, parents via school boards have a far too large influence in school curriculums and the result is a complete decadence of the whole education process.

It is not the teacher's job, teacher who is already pathetically paid and treated, to teach a kid common decency. That is the parent's job. However the teacher should have the means to approrpiately exert punishment on those who break the rules, punishment a lot more severe that detention.
A lot of parents who have neglected to properly educate their children would feel a LOT more interested if the children would have the real chance of flunking or if the school could apply stuff like monetary sanctions for the unruly children. That, and proper security in schools.

Not a zero tolerance policy that is absurd and damaging, and sure as HELL not teachers beating children. But a system that accepts that the children are children and need to be treated fair but with the necessary severity, and also one that leaves the teaching to the actual teachers and removes the mollycoddling that parents impose on schools via school boards vote, donations and other means. Also, a nationally standardized curriculum might help.
 
Be able to punish? Never!

At this day in age, teachers would be more likely to be attacked the second they tried to lift a finger to some kid, not to mention that if one of the teachers took it too far, their teaching license and anything they could be sued for would be taken as fast as well you get the point...
 
There are indeed plenty of non-violent ways for a teacher to abuse their power.
 
it is not a matter of abusing power. But we live in a world in which children are expected to be automatons and teachers are expected to pour knowledge into their heads with a bucket. And we see the results.

I believe teachers should go back to being respected dispers of knowledge, the school go back to being a temple of education, and people should take their dumb heads out of their asses and be responsible for their actions.
 
You're right, I think. If school wasn't a fascist extension of the state that ammounted to a glorified babysitter then kids couldn't violate rules that didn't exist. If the feral mountain children weren't required to attend they wouldn't cause all the problems they do while there.
 
We also need to put this in the context of the decay of the educational process. Teachers are neither respected nor well paid. Most of them are not qualified either. The curriculums are a joke, the sports are more important than academic achievements. There is no reason for children to respect the academic institution.
 
The worst ones are the sports teachers. If teaching was supposed to represent babysitting, they're the closest representations of them. Maybe that's why they hate their jobs even more, and suck at them.
 
Lol...gym teachers are just teachers that failed at teaching anything besides dodgeball and running in a circle around a track. That is why they feel they have a right to be jerks...they just fail at everything else and have to blow steam off somewhere.
 
The Scriblerian said:
Lol...gym teachers are just teachers that failed at teaching anything besides dodgeball and running in a circle around a track. That is why they feel they have a right to be jerks...they just fail at everything else and have to blow steam off somewhere.
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because the teachers who do't fail are treated so well...

Let us all admit that the value of education is one of the concepts that got lost somewhere in the past... 50 years ? hat does one get by going to school in the west? In highschool, sports and popularity contests with only a sprinkling of knowledge. In college, drinking and sports and whatnot takes priority over study, but you still pay for it dearly.

Kids come out of college broke for the next 10-20 years, but with very little in way of skills and possibility to get a career "by the time I have a future I'll be buried in debt".

By comparison, just have a look at the Chinese and Indian curriculas and then tell me while companies export jobs over there.
 
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