Sora vs. Sephiroth *Potential Spoilers*

[The_Oathkeeper]

Forget Cloud vs. Sephiroth, that tired old debate has been around forever and is so one-sided it's not even funny. This is the REAL clash of the titans right here. ShinRa's pride and joy versus the Keyblade's chosen master. Like the sub-title thing says, I've always wanted to have a debate like this. I've seen this topic a few times on GameFAQ's and it usually makes for an interesting discussion as far as Vs. Topics go, especially considering just how close the two really are in terms of raw power. Plus, this will help me to determine just how many hardcore Sephiroth fanboys/girls there are on these forums based on how many people respond with something like "hahahahaha sephiroth being beaten by sum kid with a key? LOL." Anyway, also stated in the title, this thread is most definitely going to contain spoilers for Crisis Core as well as the other games in the FFVII Compilation and Kingdom Hearts. So, if for whatever reason, you haven't played one of those games and don't want to have certain aspects of the plot spoiled for you, then you might want to steer clear of this thread.

Anyway, like I said, the two seem pretty damn close when it comes to sheer destructive power. Their fight in KH2 was inconclusive, admittedly, but that is a different Sephiroth so I can only assume that he fights differently (for example, he's left-handed and seems to have a different array of attacks). For this reason, I will be using Sephiroth in his strongest incarnation seen so far (Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children Sephiroth) for this debate. In other words, the strongest known incarnations of the characters will be used here, though we haven't really been given any solid evidence that KH2 Sephiroth is weaker than FFVII Sephiroth.

However, even if KH2 Sephiroth is the weaker of the two incarnations, I'd still say Sora is a match for him. The kid is only fifteen and he's already a freaking beast. In KH1, he singlehandedly tackled the god of the Underworld (Hades), two Titans (the Rock and Ice Titans), and a demi-god (Hercules). What's more, his strength only increases exponentially during the time between KH1 and KH2. Sephiroth has pulled off some pretty impessive feats himself, such as offing a dragon in one swing, cutting through the Junon Cannon, taking on Genesis effortlessly, etc. For this reason, I think that the fight would be incredibly close, but...I'm going to have to give this one to Sora, personally.

But I'm interested in hearing what you guys have to say. Thoughts? Arguments? Rants? Feel free to throw whatever you have to say on the subject out there (unless it's "LOL sephiroth losing to sora hahahahaha lololol," in which case I'll have to unleash the fury of my incredibly long elitist-like posts on you).

 

[Rorolina Frixell]

Well, I would have to give this round to Sephiroth. If we look back to the scene when Sora defeats KH2 Sephiroth you notice he only really gets a scratch. If Sora was facing a stronger form, ff7ac Sephiroth for this scenario I think Sephiroth would win. However, since Sora does have a lot of attacks and it is hard to tell if Sora was going at full power against Sephiroth in KH2 or KH1.However, if Sora was going at full in KH2 against Sephiroth then I think Sephiroth would massacre Sora in his FF7AC form.

Also consider that Sephiroth would have the lifestream in his control in his FF7AC form, Sora would still have only his regular attacks giving Sephiroth even more chance of victory.

I don't know what to say in support of Sora however, if he couldn't beat Xemnas on his own how could he beat Sephiroth in FF7AC?

Just my views here.

 

[Bei Bei]

I'm going to go ahead and move this to the KH fun section since it belongs more in here than Final Fantasy


--MOVED--

 

[The_Oathkeeper]

You raise a good point. Yeah, it's true that Sephiroth wasn't hurt after his fight with Sora, but remember, Sora wasn't exactly winded either. In fact, he was talking smack and was obviously ready for more. Plus, Sephiroth entered the fight with the intention of taking the Keyblade away from Sora. Why would he stop the fight unless he knew he was outmatched? Considering the Keyblade- hailed as the ultimate weapon- was at stake here, I doubt Sephiroth would just let Sora go without giving it his all. It wasn't like his fights with Cloud, who he knows he can just toy with. He knew he had something to gain by defeating Sora, so he probably wasn't messing around.

As for AC Sephiroth...well, Sora's "regular attacks" are pretty damn powerful. The kid cuts through multiple buildings with ease, deflects hundreds of high velocity lasers coming at him from approximately 180 degrees, runs faster than the eye can follow, defies gravity, defeats 1000 Heartless without breaking a sweat, etc. Besides, you seem to be forgetting that Sora has also mastered a number of powerful magical spells, including Reflega, which will deflect any attack thrown at him. Sora is far from unarmed here. He's just as fast and strong as Sephiroth has ever shown himself to be, possibly even stronger (I'm speaking for his physical strength, not overall strength).

When it comes to Sephiroth's other abilities...Well, as far as I know, Sephiroth's refreshing dip in the Lifestream gave him telekinesis, the ability to phase through solid objects, and a few magical attacks (such as Supernova). Oh, then there's the power to manipulate the Jenova Cells in people, although Sora has never even heard of Jenova, let alone its Cells. These powers would probably even the odds, but I think Sora could match him. Sephiroth has never really done anything that Sora wouldn't be able to counter. Whatever feats he's performed, Sora has either performed them himself or faced them in battle at one point. Though your argument makes sense, I really don't see any reason why Sora shouldn't be able to at least fight Sephiroth to a draw.

I don't know what to say in support of Sora however, if he couldn't beat Xemnas on his own how could he beat Sephiroth in FF7AC?

Actually, there are a few things wrong with that. First, Sora did beat Xemnas in a one-on-one duel. It was at Memory's Skyscraper, or at least some twisted illusionary version of it. Xemnas summoned Sora and fought him. After the battle, he was lying flat on his stomach before teleporting away, whereas Sora was still in good condition. If you mean Twilight Xemnas, then that was Xemnas using the power of Kingdom Hearts. In other words, it wasn't his own power that he was fighting with, but rather, the power he absorbed from his artificial Kingdom Hearts.

Second, Twilight Xemnas is MUCH stronger than any incarnation of Sephiroth we've seen, so you can't really use that as an argument. Nomura has stated that he's, as of Kingdom Hearts 2, the strongest being in the KH universe (not counting the Bald Man from the KH2FM Secret Ending). There is no shame in not being able to defeat Twilight Xemnas, in other words. You're right in that Sora couldn't beat him on his own, but even AC Sephiroth would be overwhelmed if he tried to go against Xemnas after he absorbed Kingdom Hearts.

 

[DarkSquall]

I have a few words I wanna say before I go...first, before the battle start Sephiroth was asking about Cloud saying that he's the only one who could actually beat him.

2nd after the battle end Sephiroth wasn't lying down or some thing he actually go fighting with Cloud.

3rd during the battle I think all of us used the master form or one of them and Sephiroth made a small moves that it was so powerful and had it effect on Sora.

4th I don't think anyone actually beat Sephiroth from the first time coz that guy will be a god if he did...And While keep fighting him (Seph I mean) again and again you knew all of his move..So don't tell me that Sora is better than Cloud coz he's not and as I said before after the battle ends Cloud keep fighting Seph as usual.

 

[The_Oathkeeper]

I have a few words I wanna say before I go...first, before the battle start Sephiroth was asking about Cloud saying that he's the only one who could actually beat him.

Yes, it is true that Sephiroth was asking for Cloud. However, he also expresses a desire to defeat Sora and take the Keyblade from him. The discussion is as follows:

Sephiroth: Well...that's an interesting sword you're carrying.

Donald: It's the Keyblade!

Sephiroth: I see...so that's the Keyblade...and I suppose you must be its chosen wielder.

Sora: So what if I am?

Sephiroth: I wonder if it won't change its mind...once I defeat you.

Obviously, Sephiroth entered that duel with the intention of beating Sora into a bloody pulp or (more likely) killing him so that the Keyblade would choose him [Sephiroth] over Sora. The Keyblade is known far and wide as the ultimate weapon, so naturally it's quite the reward. With such a valuable prize up for grabs, why would Sephiroth choose to end the battle if he knew he would win? Clearly, he thought he was outmatched. Otherwise, he wouldn't have ended the fight.

2nd after the battle end Sephiroth wasn't lying down or some thing he actually go fighting with Cloud.

You seem to be under the impression that Sora was exhausted after the fight. That is simply not the case. Just as Sephiroth was doing fine, Sora was also far from tired. He was talking smack and acting as confident as ever. If Sora was losing the fight, why would he be speaking so confidently? His exact words were "How'd you like that?!" Those don't sound like the words of someone who was losing the fight.

3rd during the battle I think all of us used the master form or one of them and Sephiroth made a small moves that it was so powerful and had it effect on Sora.

I'm sorry, but I'm not quite sure I understood what you were saying. I'll try my best to interpret it, but forgive me if I misunderstood you. First of all, Master Form isn't available during the fight. Sora is on his own against Sephiroth, whereas he needs both of his Partners active and taking part in the battle to use Master Form. Second, Storyline=/=Gameplay. The fact that Sephiroth's attacks do a lot of damage to Sora doesn't mean a thing as far as the Storyline is concerned. Just look at the Heartless. In Gameplay, it takes Sora a couple of hits to kill them, but in cutscenes, he offs them in one shot.

4th I don't think anyone actually beat Sephiroth from the first time coz that guy will be a god if he did...And While keep fighting him (Seph I mean) again and again you knew all of his move..So don't tell me that Sora is better than Cloud coz he's not and as I said before after the battle ends Cloud keep fighting Seph as usual.

I must remind you that Gameplay=/=Storyline. Yes, I can't think of any player who beat Sephiroth on his/her first try, but that really doesn't count as far as the Storyline goes. For example...what if someone loses to Xaldin on their first try? I guess that means Sora isn't as strong as Xaldin, then. However, the Storyline directly contradicts that by showing Sora defeating Xaldin. You really can't use Gameplay as evidence of a character's strength in the Storyline. In other words, the skill of the player vs. the game's AI isn't the same as Sora vs. Sephiroth. I mean, I see what you're saying, but this isn't the type of Versus Topic where it can be applied.

And...I'm sorry to say that Sora far surpasses Cloud in basically all aspects of combat. Everything Cloud has done, Sora has done even better. To deny that is simply fanboyism. Cloud destroys pieces of debris? Okay, well as impressive as that is, Sora effortlessly destroyed multiple skyscrapers and then used their debris as platforms to get to the next skycraper. Cloud deflected bullets with a large sword? Very nice. However, Sora deflected hundreds of high velocity lasers fired at him from approximately 180 degrees with a much smaller sword. On top of that, Sora was seen moving faster than the eye can follow, defying gravity, deflecting an attack from the Groundshaker (a beast that's roughly the same size as a WEAPON), and going toe-to-toe with at least one Titan. As tough as Cloud is, Sora is decades ahead of him.

 

[DarkSquall]

First of all, Master Form isn't available during the fight. Sora is on his own against Sephiroth, whereas he needs both of his Partners active and taking part in the battle to use Master Form

2 words dude:
Action replay ;P

 

[The_Oathkeeper]

Point taken. But why use your Action Replay for something like that when you can use it to fight two Sephiroths at once?