Rinoa to Ultimecia?

The Rinoa/Ultimecia is pretty far fetched...
It is one of my favorite FF theories to date, and it makes the game 32849304 times better IMO.
 
Jimmy said:
No...there is no were stated in the game that a sorceress can live forever theyt have normal life cycles just like anyone else so that proves Rinoa is not Ultimecia!
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I've read this in a site, it's aboute those 10 things that Ultimecia say in her last form (reflect in you...etc.):

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Ultimecia comentando sobre o pesar do tempo, sabe-se que feiticeiras são imortais ou no mínimo não envelhecem, logo Ultimecia obviamente deve ter perdido entes queridos a medida que o tempo passava. E isso deve ter induzido ela a procurar manipular o tempo."


"Ultimecia commenting about the time, we know, sorceress are immortal, or, at least, they don't get old.
Then, Ultimecia may have lost family, and this can make her wish to manipulate the time!

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Mas o fato é que enquanto Rinoa não pode envelhecer

In fact, Rinoa can't get old.


Perhaps, I can be wrong!
[/FONT]
 
Rinoa can get old for sure i mean...she reached 17 and then stayed at that age!?

Nahhh those are just guesses Laguna says Ultimecia lives in a far future were none of us can technically exist!

Until the guys from Square come out and admit that sorceresses are immortal or something then this theory is completely worthless at least for me!

P.S: English is the official language in here:P (but nice;))
 
My favorite point to the theory is when Rinoa tells squall that she wants time to stand still so they can stay together forever. ^__^
As lame as the story line is...the theory makes it all worth while.
 
Shin said:
Julia is Ultimecia that's all.


:oops:
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o_O care to explain how?

I fail to see how and why Julia could be Ultimecia - Rinoa is a barely believable theory but saying Julia is ultimecia is like saying Yuffie will die instead of Aerith O_O
 
Aeris Gainsborough said:
o_O care to explain how?

I fail to see how and why Julia could be Ultimecia - Rinoa is a barely believable theory but saying Julia is ultimecia is like saying Yuffie will die instead of Aerith O_O
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jhahahaha just kiddin, but It's pretty weird. We are saying that Rinoa is a sorcerer, but we know too that Julia and his husband are their parents, but none of them were witches.

So are we assuming that Edea and Rinoa were just born as witches by stuffs of destiny? i mean... in any case by inheritance?

anyways, could be...I think in some place ( not in the game ) I heard it could be like just.."luck" .




And about your copy paste theory, sounds nice...and I would like to believe that Rinoa is Ultimecia, but right now I'm not sure what to think about that, since I haven`t play ff8 when it was released; I want to play it ;_; , but dun have the game rite now.
 
jhahahaha just kiddin, but It's pretty weird. We are saying that Rinoa is a sorcerer, but we know too that Julia and his husband are their parents, but none of them were witches.
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In the FFVIII universe, sorceresses are made, not born. Therefore, a girl's mother does not have to be a sorceress for said girl to be one herself.
If I remember and undersand what happened correctly, Rinoa initially recieved her powers from Edea, although Edea herself didn't choose to give Rinoa her powers. Rinoa may also have recieved powers from Ultimecia as a side effect of her being possessed by the latter. In normal circumstances, a person is made into a sorceress or a sorceress is given extra powers by another sorceress who is about to die. Rinoa may have recieved extra powers from Adel in this way.
 
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RINOA=ULTIMECIA
That theory is RIGHT.

The theory Rinoa=Ultimecia is not officialy exposed and confirmated by SQUARE, but I've read in many ocasions that SQUARE said that this theory was leant to the fans, and SQUARE will not say anything about that (making a mystery that would grow the videogame sells)

A fact of the theory is that, at the end of the game, Rinoa is the last witch alive in the world, with the powers of all witches concentrated in her.
Remember that a witch cannot die before pass her powers to another woman.
At the beginning of the FFVIII story, there was 2 witches in the world:
1. Adel, the sleeper-jailed witch (with her own powers)
2. Edea (possesed by Ultimecia, so with the powers of Ultimecia; and a second power, her own power, like is said in the game, she was a witch before the possesion of Ultimecia, gifted it to her by her antique mentor)

So we have 2 witches and 3 powers.

1. The first fact of the theory (and the most complicated) is that Rinoa becames the last witch in the world.
Remember that Ultimecia is the last witch from the future, so the most powerful (cuz she have all witches powers concentrated in her, beeing the lastest one) and her objective is comprime the time-line (how bad! comprime the time!) and she needs to go back to the past to obtain that objective, but she only can travel to the past "incorporeus", with no body, so there's necessary to posses a physical body. (Ultimecia can travel trough the time with the Elleone time-machine made in the future by Dr. Odine, as is say in the game).

When Squall, Rinoa and co. defeated Edea (possesed by Ultimecia), Ultimecia go out of Edea's body and posseses Rinoa's body, making her a witch with the power of Ultimecia and Edea's too)
Edea doesn't die, but she's is no more a witch.

When Rinoa and co. defeated Adel (the sleeper-jailed witch), Adel dies passing her powers to Rinoa, making Rinoa the lastest witch in the world.
But Ultimecia go out of Rinoa's body. letting her with the powers of Edea and Adel.

Later, we defeated Ultimecia, now with a pshysical form, cuz whe are in the time-complexion, the objective of Ultimecia. When we defeated her, the time returns to normal-line and Ultimecia appears in the past in front of (at the moment, a bewitched Edea with her own powers gived by her antique master) Edea, that accept the powers of Ultimecia to let her die.

So, IT'S A TIME FEEDBACK CIRCLE. It'll happen again and again if we try to find an end or a beginning.

Rinoa's is in that moment the last witch in the world, with all the witche's powers concentrated in her, and her powers will grow and convert herself in Ultimecia.

(It can be the possibility that Ultimecia can be a "descendant" of Rinoa's powers; but seeing the similarities of Rinoa-Ultimecia faces, it's very improbable).

2. ¿Why Rinoa becomes Ultimecia?
As it's said in the game, if a witch doesn't have a "personal guardian" at her side, she'll become mad, and bad.
The "personal guardian" of Rinoa was Squall, and knowing (as it's said in the game) that the witches live more than normal humans (seeing too Edea in the past and the present, she's identic), Squall shall die before Rinoa, and that aussense of a "personal guardian" (and lost her lover) shall drive her mad and bad, making her Ultimecia.

3. Other fact of the theory is that Ultimecia can summon the GF GRYPHUS.
Squall have a lion representation in his sword, neckacle and ring.
In the episode of the Fight between Galbadia and Balamb Gardens, Rinoa's beg to Squall if she can take that ring, and Squall give it to her, ring that it will never come back to Squall (what a whore Rinoa!). Squall said that the lion symbol is a GRYPHUS (you can change the name of the ring in that part), and its the only thing makes him scary.
Then in the Final Fight with Ultimecia, Ultimecia summoned a GF calles GRYPHUS (or the name you putted in that moment to the ring gived to Rinoa) saying: "I'll summon the thing you're most afraid of". Why she know that?

If we putted the (stupid) theory that Ultimecia can read minds is wrong, cuz in the part of the game that Seifer tortures Squall, and Edea (possesed by Ultimecia, so speaking Ultimecia) question him about the SEEDS. If Ultimecia can read minds she doesn't need question.
And afterwards, there's the fact of have GRYPHUS.

4. A curious thing, in adittion of the faces-similarity of Rinoa-Ultimecia, is that Rinoa wears in her back two white wings, and Ultimecia two Black wings; an interesting connection saying that Rinoa's good (white) and Ultimecia's the same but bad (black).

But well...all that is only a theory of course, you're free to think what you want! :)

I've putted that post in Wikipedia, in the Final Fantasy VIII, please if you see spelling errors correct it!! (Sorry, I'm Spanish:whistle2: ):omg:
 
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Lol I saw a lot of spelling errors, but it still hit the spot in terms of getting the point across.
 
I'm using the Time/Ultimecia Plot FAQ from GameFAQs quite a bit in this post. It can be found here:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/197343/34215


Yes, Rinoa is the only remaining sorceress at the end of the game. All this proves is that
Ultimecia's powers can be traced back to Rinoa. As for the the similarity in appearance between Rinoa and Edea, the Time/Ultimecia clue can explain that:


As for a resemblance between Ultimecia and Rinoa, it should be noted that one
can compare with or impose the faces of Selphie, Ellone, and Edea over
Rinoa's, and all bear strong resemblances to her, as well. In a game in which
all characters are designed by the same person, and especially with it being a
character designer known for making his female characters look similar to one
another -- and also when the same actor did the facial modeling for more than
one of these characters -- there are almost certainly going to be resemblances
in their facial features. This is something which must be kept in mind as
their similarities are not necessarily indicative of there being an indication
of some connection between the characters, either as them being related to one
another, or as being the same person
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2. ¿Why Rinoa becomes Ultimecia?
As it's said in the game, if a witch doesn't have a "personal guardian" at her side, she'll become mad, and bad.
The "personal guardian" of Rinoa was Squall, and knowing (as it's said in the game) that the witches live more than normal humans (seeing too Edea in the past and the present, she's identic), Squall shall die before Rinoa, and that aussense of a "personal guardian" (and lost her lover) shall drive her mad and bad, making her Ultimecia.
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The Edea we see in the past is 13 years younger than the Edea we see in the present. We don't know Edea's age, but we know that she was Matron throughout Squall's childhood. Let's, for argument's sake, assume she's been Squall's guardian since Squall was 2 years old – there may be something in the game that contradicts this but I don't remember. Squall is 17 during the events of the game. Take ten years off that and the young Squall seen at the orphanage when Ultimecia passes her powers on to Edea is 7. That would imply that Edea was Squall's guardian 15 years before the events of the game. She could have been 20 years old at that point, making her 25 when she received Ultimecia's powers and 38 during the events of the game. I think, however, that she was probably older than that, being around 43 years old during the events of the game. So what, you may ask? Well, the difference between 25 and 38, or 35 and 48 may be noticeable in real life, it isn't so noticeable that you have to take the time to create a completely different character model, especially in the latter case. Past Edea and present Edea are identical because the character designer(s) didn't bother to make her look younger, because that way they could save time and money.
The evidence of Sorceress' having a longer lifespan than regular humans is sketchy at best, and so we certainly can't say that Squall will definitely die before Rinoa. If Sorceresses do have longer lifespans then that must mean that they must regularly outlive their Knights, and they must be going “mad and bad” all the time. Obviously, only one Sorceress, at most, turned into Ultimecia, and there's no reason to assume that it was Rinoa rather than another Sorceress from the future, or that Ultimecia became Ultimecia due to the loss of her Knight.

3. Other fact of the theory is that Ultimecia can summon the GF GRYPHUS.
Squall have a lion representation in his sword, neckacle and ring.
In the episode of the Fight between Galbadia and Balamb Gardens, Rinoa's beg to Squall if she can take that ring, and Squall give it to her, ring that it will never come back to Squall (what a whore Rinoa!). Squall said that the lion symbol is a GRYPHUS (you can change the name of the ring in that part), and its the only thing makes him scary.
Then in the Final Fight with Ultimecia, Ultimecia summoned a GF calles GRYPHUS (or the name you putted in that moment to the ring gived to Rinoa) saying: "I'll summon the thing you're most afraid of". Why she know that?

If we putted the (stupid) theory that Ultimecia can read minds is wrong, cuz in the part of the game that Seifer tortures Squall, and Edea (possesed by Ultimecia, so speaking Ultimecia) question him about the SEEDS. If Ultimecia can read minds she doesn't need question.
And afterwards, there's the fact of have GRYPHUS.
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Again, I refer you to the Time/Ultimecia plot FAQ:
Squall carries a ring with a lion engraved upon it, the ring's name being
"Griever." This is also the name of the GF that Ultimecia Summons during the
final battle of the game and which she Junctions herself to during the course
of the battle. During Final Fantasy VIII, Squall gives this ring to Rinoa.
Perhaps Griever was contained within the ring the same as Doomtrain was
contained within the Solomon Ring, or perhaps it was even a creature that
Rinoa herself created in honour of Squall.

*Response*:

There may have been a "real" Griever that existed in stories that
Squall had known about, but the only suggestion offered in-game is that it is
a creature that Squall conceived of in his own mind, as Scan tells us that in
Squall's mind, Griever is the strongest GF:

"Griever
In Squall's mind, the strongest GF. Through Ultimecia's power, continues
fighting without vanishing."

Further, Ultimecia's Witch Embodiment powers granted her the ability to reach
into other's minds and pull things out (as she often displays when completely
removing a character's stock of a certain type of Spell). In the case of
Griever, she simply manifested the thoughts she pulled from Squall's mind
regarding what he believed to be the most powerful being in existance. This
would be a great strategical move on Ultimecia's part. This is made even
more plausible when examining what the japanese version has Ultimecia say:

Ultimecia: Your feelings, I shall summon the most powerful of things
[from them]! The more strongly you feel, that will be what shall torment
you. Fufu."

As you can see, Griever was clearly created there and then, and thus cannot
be used to form a link between Rinoa and Ultimecia.
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Ultimecia quite clearly states that she has the ability to reach into people's minds using her Witch Embodiment powers. Why couldn't she do this earlier on in the game? Perhaps she needed to be in her own body. Perhaps she simply wasn't powerful enough. Perhaps there's another reason. It doesn't really matter. What's important is that during the final battle, she does have the ability to reach out into Squall's mind and use what she finds there against him.
4. A curious thing, in adittion of the faces-similarity of Rinoa-Ultimecia, is that Rinoa wears in her back two white wings, and Ultimecia two Black wings; an interesting connection saying that Rinoa's good (white) and Ultimecia's the same but bad (black).
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That's right, if by “the same” you mean that they're both Sorceresses. If you mean that it's suggesting that they're both the same person, you're probably mistaken. Rinoa and Ultimecia are not the only Sorceresses who use the wing motif.
Again from the Time/Ultimecia plot FAQ:
Wings and feathers are a motif of the main Witches in the game.Edea's dress has black feathers around the collar, Adel has two spiky
wing-like protrusions extending from her back, Rinoa has her white feathery
wings, and Ultimecia has her black, somewhat spiny, feathered wings. With this
in mind, all that's represented here is a connection between Witches, not a
connection between Rinoa and Ultimecia alone. The connection between Rinoa and
Ultimecia is that their wings are black and white, representing good and evil,
opposing representations of these concepts, and opposite representations of
the use of the Witch Embodiment.
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These points are all unreliable actually Rinoa is not the last sorceress alive as Edea is also a sorceress she as powers by herself if she was not a sorceress Ultimecia could not have possesed her in the first place!

The theory about Rinoa=Ultimecia is purly fan base Ultimecia passes her powers to Edea in the past so she does go into the afterlive!

Sorceresses die like any other human that´s the way it goes the game clearly states that!

People try to find the most matching of theories to try and say R=U but they are just wrong Rinoa is more than death when Ultimecia appears as are all the other characters they probably died of old age!

Rinoa is not immortal nor is Ultimecia! Rinoa does not exist in Ultimecias future Square never admitted Rinoa was Ultimecia and so all theories are just fan speculation!

I could say Quistis is Ultimecia because they both have blond hair and the fact that Quistis was fired as an instructor made her hate the SeeDs in the future and she went mad and evil!

Rinoa=Ultimecia just say NO!
 
Actually, according to Zell and Edea gives up her powers to someone else during the course of the game. Squall puts two and two together and figures out it was Rinoa who recieved Edea's powers. This means that Rinoa is the only known living sorceress at the end of the game. Either that, or Zell was wrong.

Zell: S'up Squall!!! So glad you're safe! I hate to tell you this now, but we've got major problems down there. Well, here it goes! Some big thing called Lunatic Pandora came out of nowhere. Matron couldn't achieve what she set out to do because of it. Which is ok. Matron's not a sorceress anymore. Matron gave away her power to someone without realizing it.

Squall: (To Rinoa......)
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Gaia Branford said:
"Past Edea and present Edea are identical because the character designer(s) didn't bother to make her look younger, because that way they could save time and money."

L: Ok, but.........if SQUARE makes Laguna looks older.....why Edea's not?:confused:

Well, the theory of the wings you said sounds logical.:shame:

Why Ultimecia must be from a far distant future? The Odine's Elleone Time-Machine cannot be made in a short lapsus of time, and Ultimecia be Rinoa with 10 years more?:huh:

Well, about GRIEVER (I don't know why I've putted GRYPHUS, the Spainien PAL version called it GRYPHUS and Ultimecia's called Artemisa.....:dry:) the theory of 'Ultimecia the reader of minds' is very 'contradictory', but the thing you say that Ultimecia can't read minds at the moment of the torture-BDSM-session sounds good.
But if we apply the 'Okham knife' theory (the most simply theory has more possibilities to be the correct) I think it's more logical the fact of the 'Griever ring-Griever summoning'

Well, but it's only a stupid freak theory, don't make it serious Ok?
HOPE WE CAN STILL FIGHTING THIS!! :P

(The theory of Quistis-Ultimecia is very interesting...I'll profundize in it) :D
 
L: Ok, but.........if SQUARE makes Laguna looks older.....why Edea's not?
confused.gif
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This is guesswork, but:

The sequences in which you play as Laguna are even further in the past than the orphanage scene at the end of the game - about 17 years ago rather than just 10. Laguna was probably in his early 20s during those sequences and Edea was probably about 30. The difference in appearance between a 20 year old and a 37 year old is greater than the difference in appearance between a 30 year old and a 40 year old, and is enough to warrant a new character model.

But if we apply the 'Okham knife' theory (the most simply theory has more possibilities to be the correct) I think it's more logical the fact of the 'Griever ring-Griever summoning'
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It's called "Occam's Razor", and your logic doesn't work simply because there's a line in the game that contradicts it.

Even if the line wasn't there, neither possibility is actually that simple. Both just lead to more questions. If she used the ring, how did she do it? If she reached into Squall's mind, how did she do that?
 
Edea is just a sexy 40 year old that´s why it appears she did not change much!

Some people don´t get old so fast plus i believe Edea was a bit younger than Laguna!
 
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