Kuja . . . Thong :S

[Howl]

Amano did not design the characters for this game. I don't remember the name of the people who did; but it was a team of people, rather than just one designer. Amano just did after-production art.

And the concept art for the game was done in chibi form too. ^.^

 

[Rockman X]

Uh oh, I has been found out The artists you're thinking of are Takeshi Nozue and Toshiyuki Itahana.

However, seeing as how there's no concept art of Kuja to be found anywhere except for Amano's design, I'm going with that. Axel doesn't really have anything to back up what he said, either. I'm sure if it WAS true, some FF nerd would have found out by now...after all, they've had nearly 8 years to find out

 

[Axel_KH]

I can see a chest >.>
And the only reason I know that, which I admit isn't a definite fact but... My friend, who followed FFIX religiously during (and after) production happened to come across that little piece of information during his research on the game, seeing as he couldn't actually own it due to where he lives. I'll check with him to see where he discovered it, then report back, if it makes you feel better?

 

[Grand Lethal]

Wikipedia* says that Amano was the "original character designer" of the game, while Shuko Murase was the "main character designer". So, I think that Amano did the original designs but Murase redesigned them so that they would fit with the PS1s graphic capabilities. The redesigned characters, such as Vivi and Garnet, look very similar to Amano's art.

So, I think that Kuja was originally drawn by Amano AS A MAN, as I can see no boobage. Notice how there is no concept art of Murase's available? I don't think Kuja was redesigned at all, just like Zidane wasn't.

* Yes, I know Wikipedia is not a 100% reliable source.

On topic:
It's not official that he wears a thong. The design makes it seem probable, but there is no hard evidence to say that he is wearing a thong.

 

[Rockman X]

Kuja's at least Bisexual. Lmao. Garland just made a toy he could play with at night. . Ahaha.

Oh for god's sake, can't you leave your "IWANTTEHCOX" views out of at least one post and make a worthwhile post?

I can see a chest >.>
And the only reason I know that, which I admit isn't a definite fact but... My friend, who followed FFIX religiously during (and after) production happened to come across that little piece of information during his research on the game, seeing as he couldn't actually own it due to where he lives. I'll check with him to see where he discovered it, then report back, if it makes you feel better?

There is no chest. It's the top of his shirt that's bulky. And yes, please do find out where he got that bit of info. I'm a huge IX fan and I play the game religiously, I know most everything about it and I've yet to come across anything suggesting that Kuja was a woman at one point. Proof or gtfo, in other words.

On topic:
It's not official that he wears a thong. The design makes it seem probable, but there is no hard evidence to say that he is wearing a thong.

That's what I've been trying to tell these people. You CANNOT see his ass so you CANNOT know for sure that it's a thong. End of story.

 

[Axel_KH]

That's what I've been trying to tell these people. You CANNOT see his ass so you CANNOT know for sure that it's a thong. End of story.

You obviously haven't seen some of the fan-art xD
Neither have I *shifty eyes*

And apparently, my source can't remember either, due to it being "bloody ages ago". I'm sorry I can't verify the point, but I, personally, do believe what he says. It wouldn't be the first time Squenix swapped aspects of a character during production.

 

[Rockman X]

You obviously haven't seen some of the fan-art xD
Neither have I *shifty eyes*

Oh please, don't tell me you take fan art into account? NEWS FLASH! Fan art is just that, fan art. It doesn't count for anything.

And apparently, my source can't remember either, due to it being "bloody ages ago". I'm sorry I can't verify the point, but I, personally, do believe what he says. It wouldn't be the first time Squenix swapped aspects of a character during production.

Kuja was never a woman. There isn't a shred of evidence on the internet to support that claim. If you or your friend can ever find it, then I will concede. But seeing as how there is no evidence, then I don't. In the words of Austin Powers, "It's a man, baby!"

 

[Axel_KH]

Oh please, don't tell me you take fan art into account? NEWS FLASH! Fan art is just that, fan art. It doesn't count for anything.

It's called a joke, apparently a new concept you for ;p

I have done a few checks online, and another of my friends found the information regarding Kuja, but when I went to check I couldn't find it. I will carry on looking, however, just so it doesn't seem like I'm making stuff up.

(Also, I agree, "It's a man, baby!" now, but that doesn't mean he always was ^_~)

 

[Rockman X]

It's called a joke, apparently a new concept you for ;p

It's not a new concept, it just didn't seem very joke-ish to me.

I have done a few checks online, and another of my friends found the information regarding Kuja, but when I went to check I couldn't find it. I will carry on looking, however, just so it doesn't seem like I'm making stuff up.

Well, to alter a phrase commonly found on /b/, "PROOF OR GTFO." In other words, I've never seen a shred of evidence supporting your claim and if you find it lovely, you've proven me wrong...but until then, it's nothing but an unfounded claim.

(Also, I agree, "It's a man, baby!" now, but that doesn't mean he always was ^_~)

I wonder just why you're so hellbent on Kuja being a female. See, I've got this theory that applies to you males who like to fantasize that Kuja was a chick in the Japanese version, or that he used to be a woman and was changed: you are attracted to Kuja, but as a "straight" male you feel wrong/scared by this, so to make it okay in your mind, you make up little theories that Kuja used to be a chick so you can stay completely straight. Amirite?

Apparently the concept of "bishounen" completely slips past people, even though it's been mentioned MANY of times. Feminine protagonists/antagonists in games, anime, etc is NOT a new thing. I've been watching DBZ the past few days due to nostalgia, and it's quite obvious in that show even, such as the villain Frieza and his lackey Zarbon. It's been in other FFs, even Sephiroth can count as bishi (he's masculine, but the long flowing hair and the facial features scream Bishi), and Amano's art style makes nearly everyone feminine. It's in real life in Japan too, in J-rock/J-pop. Look at Gackt, Miyavi, Alice Nine, GazettE, etc. I don't understand why it's so hard for people to accept that there's such a thing as a feminine male in Japanese culture. Does it interfere with the American views of masculinity, such as being a brutish moron eating 1/3 lb. burgers, grunting during football games and drinking beer?

 

[Serah]

What Kuja is wearing could be classified as 'bikini underwear' which a lot men do like to wear them. Kuja's got a hot bod perfect for them. Kuja was not nor will he ever be female! Kuja's a bishie and he's a maaaaaaaaaan!!!! *contributes massively to Kuja thong talk* ^_______^

 

[Davey Gaga]

I wonder just why you're so hellbent on Kuja being a female. See, I've got this theory that applies to you males who like to fantasize that Kuja was a chick in the Japanese version, or that he used to be a woman and was changed: you are attracted to Kuja, but as a "straight" male you feel wrong/scared by this, so to make it okay in your mind, you make up little theories that Kuja used to be a chick so you can stay completely straight. Amirite?

As far as I remember, Axel is gay. So no, you're not xD

 

[Rockman X]

As far as I remember, Axel is gay. So no, you're not xD

Well then his fixation on wanting Kuja to be female makes even less sense. My theory still applies to all others though

Men insecure in their own sexuality panic at being attracted to Kuja, so to justify it they make up unsupported claims that he was/is a woman.

As for his "thong", I'm going with what LA says.

 

[Davey Gaga]

Well then his fixation on wanting Kuja to be female makes even less sense. My theory still applies to all others though.

Not really, because I once thought that he was a woman, or would've been better suited as a woman. Maybe it's just an opinion and not some kind of conspiracy, requiring some long-winded assumptions.

 

[Axel_KH]

you are attracted to Kuja, but as a "straight" male you feel wrong/scared by this, so to make it okay in your mind, you make up little theories that Kuja used to be a chick so you can stay completely straight. Amirite?

The rest of your post kinda falls down here - I am most definitely not a straight male, and even if I was attracted to Kuja, I definitely wouldn't feel wrong or scared by it. I can think of a few choice videogame characters that I wouldn't kick out of bed if they were real.

What I'm more surprised by is how hostile you're acting. The fact that I think Kuja is female is because I feel quite sure that Kuja was originally female during production. So, he may have been made as a... uh... butch isn't quite the right wore... Boobless female? That'll do. He has all of the body features of a female, despite looking vaguely masculine. Swapping a character during production is right up Squenix's alley - let's not forget that Vaan was only made half way into FFXII's production.

(I'll ask my brother about the details for that, if that'll make you feel better ;p)

So yes. I am standing by my opinion on Kuja, and with regards to the topic, I do think he wears a thong.

You remind me of one of the members of a forum I moderate. Basically, everything with her came down to "PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN" which only served to piss people off, and ultimately get her banned (not by my hand, I might add). Though the situations differ slightly, my point is, you can't just win arguments by shouting "PROOF OR GTFO". Quite frankly, it's rude.

Yes, I will carry on looking for the source of that information, even if it's just to solve some stupid and rather pathetic dispute over the intarwebz.

(Also, launching a personal attack against me because I disagree with you? Real mature there, bud.)

 

[Rockman X]

What I'm more surprised by is how hostile you're acting. The fact that I think Kuja is female is because I feel quite sure that Kuja was originally female during production. So, he may have been made as a... uh... butch isn't quite the right wore... Boobless female? That'll do. He has all of the body features of a female, despite looking vaguely masculine. Swapping a character during production is right up Squenix's alley - let's not forget that Vaan was only made half way into FFXII's production.

Hostile? Wasn't my intention to be hostile, though I'm sure it came off that way.

1. I'm tired of seeing people come up with stupid theories about Kuja and parade them around as fact or good possibilities.

2. You are obviously unaware that men have different body types. Some men have bodies more akin to feminine bodies. You seem to think it impossible for a male to have a thin, toned body but no muscle bulk. I'm proof that they can, since my body type is pretty much the exact same as Kuja's. So am I a chick without boobs too? No.

3. Why are you calling them Squeenix and using Vaan as an example? Invalid example. IX was made by Squaresoft, last I checked.

So yes. I am standing by my opinion on Kuja, and with regards to the topic, I do think he wears a thong.

He probably does wear one. But he also might not. We can't see his ass. It's pointless to claim he has a thong when we can't see for sure.

You remind me of one of the members of a forum I moderate. Basically, everything with her came down to "PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN" which only served to piss people off, and ultimately get her banned (not by my hand, I might add). Though the situations differ slightly, my point is, you can't just win arguments by shouting "PROOF OR GTFO". Quite frankly, it's rude.

It's rude? You should realize you can't give credibility to your theory without proof. Things don't work that way on teh internets, nor do they work that way in real life. Try claiming something in a research paper to be fact or quite possible without any sources. Your professor would give you an F. The wording might be rude, but "PROOF OR GTFO" is a completely legitimate stance.

And how convenient is it to say "he was a female in design!" and when I ask you for proof to say "oh I lost the proof and my brother can't find it"? Come on. Do you expect me to believe anything that suspicious?

 

[Davey Gaga]

Well then his fixation on wanting Kuja to be female makes even less sense. My theory still applies to all others though

Men insecure in their own sexuality panic at being attracted to Kuja, so to justify it they make up unsupported claims that he was/is a woman.

1. I'm tired of seeing people come up with stupid theories about Kuja and parade them around as fact or good possibilities.

You've done much the same, really, but you're on the other extreme.

3. Why are you calling them Squeenix and using Vaan as an example? Invalid example. IX was made by Squaresoft, last I checked.

It's valid as long as it relates to what both you and he are discussing.

It's rude? You should realize you can't give credibility to your theory without proof. Things don't work that way on teh internets, nor do they work that way in real life. Try claiming something in a research paper to be fact or quite possible without any sources. Your professor would give you an F. The wording might be rude, but "PROOF OR GTFO" is a completely legitimate stance.

Likewise, then, show me undeniable proof to suggest that Kuja's always been a man from the start - you've yet to do so and, as such, you're really arguing no differently than Axel is.

And how convenient is it to say "he was a female in design!" and when I ask you for proof to say "oh I lost the proof and my brother can't find it"? Come on. Do you expect me to believe anything that suspicious?

You can accuse 'til you're blue in the face and he can deny until he looks similar, but the conspiracy idea sounds quite ludicrous, imho.

 

[Axel_KH]

2. You are obviously unaware that men have different body types. Some men have bodies more akin to feminine bodies. You seem to think it impossible for a male to have a thin, toned body but no muscle bulk. I'm proof that they can, since my body type is pretty much the exact same as Kuja's. So am I a chick without boobs too? No.

First off, you can't talk to me about men having thin, toned bodies since I, myself, have one too. Second, there is a MASSIVE difference between a male, thin, toned body and a female body that looks somewhat similar. I dunno why you think otherwise, but it's true, and I notice this pretty easily. There's the curviture of the body, to start off with. And in cutscenes, Kuja's body definitely has the curviture of a woman. I would know this, having looked at both male and female bodies. Y'know, experiementation phase or whatever (and all the female ladies my friends show me).

And how convenient is it to say "he was a female in design!" and when I ask you for proof to say "oh I lost the proof and my brother can't find it"? Come on. Do you expect me to believe anything that suspicious?

First, you're mixing up your people ;p.
Second, the friend who told me about this piece of information found this out some... four, five years ago? I forget exactly. So it's not exactly a recent rumor, though you seem to think it is. I mean, yeah, I fully accept that it may have been some idiot saying "OMGKUJAWASAGIRL", but just looking at his template makes me think he was originally female.

It's rude? You should realize you can't give credibility to your theory without proof. Things don't work that way on teh internets, nor do they work that way in real life. Try claiming something in a research paper to be fact or quite possible without any sources. Your professor would give you an F. The wording might be rude, but "PROOF OR GTFO" is a completely legitimate stance.

I have done, but it was based on common knowledge (y'know, things like ancient alchemists thought they could turn lead into gold and such). I thought that Kuja originally being female was common knowledge, since I know a few other sites that have claimed this theory, though apparently I was mistaken.

3. Why are you calling them Squeenix and using Vaan as an example? Invalid example. IX was made by Squaresoft, last I checked.

Square is Square. Somehow, I don't doubt that people do still just scrap one idea and try a new one, regardless of change of name or company or whatever.

Well then his fixation on wanting Kuja to be female makes even less sense. My theory still applies to all others though

Men insecure in their own sexuality panic at being attracted to Kuja, so to justify it they make up unsupported claims that he was/is a woman.

I just want to add a point here - I happened across an old thread where someone actually asked their opinion on the matter. You seemed all too eager to put forward this theory again. You, as Riku said, are just putting out a random theory you made up (at least I didn't just make my theory up) and broadcasted it as fact. Also, what is your interest in people who aren't secure enough in their sexuality, eh?

Finally, I don't think it's possible to be attracted to Kuja when he's outside of FMV sequences.

 

[Rockman X]

First off, you can't talk to me about men having thin, toned bodies since I, myself, have one too. Second, there is a MASSIVE difference between a male, thin, toned body and a female body that looks somewhat similar. I dunno why you think otherwise, but it's true, and I notice this pretty easily. There's the curviture of the body, to start off with. And in cutscenes, Kuja's body definitely has the curviture of a woman.

So basically, female body = curves is what you're saying. Funny though, my body has curves and I'm not a boobless female. Either I'm half girl (and I'm pretty damn sure I'm not) or you haven't seen all types of bodies.

I would know this, having looked at both male and female bodies. Y'know, experiementation phase or whatever (and all the female ladies my friends show me).

Well congratulations, you've looked at male and female bodies. Who hasn't? It doesn't make you smarter. I find it funny you're trying to teach me about the human body. My anatomy teacher in highschool used his college textbooks for the majority of the class, so I had my fill of anatomy. And I can't figure out if your "experimentation phase" is things with real people or pr0ns Btw, "female ladies" is redundant.

First, you're mixing up your people ;p.

Orly nao? You mentioned your friend AND your brother:

(I'll ask my brother about the details for that, if that'll make you feel better ;p)

Although perhaps I misread it and you directed it to the bit about Vaan only being made halfway through XII (which I haven't heard either, but it certainly explains why Vaan is crap).

Second, the friend who told me about this piece of information found this out some... four, five years ago? I forget exactly. So it's not exactly a recent rumor, though you seem to think it is. I mean, yeah, I fully accept that it may have been some idiot saying "OMGKUJAWASAGIRL", but just looking at his template makes me think he was originally female.

Hrmm...I've been on teh internets longer than you, since oh, '95 when AOL was out for Windows 3.0. I've been to pretty much every FF site around, current ones (I have 22 FF bookmarks) and old ones closed years ago. Conspiracy rumors about characters are usually resigned to message boards and aren't put on the main sites unless there's:

1. Evidence suggesting it
2. Gains alot of attention (and I'm pretty sure VII conspiracies gather much more)

I didn't join the boards of ever FF site I've ever been to, and I never saw any of mention of your Kuja theory on the main sites.

I have done, but it was based on common knowledge (y'know, things like ancient alchemists thought they could turn lead into gold and such). I thought that Kuja originally being female was common knowledge, since I know a few other sites that have claimed this theory, though apparently I was mistaken.

I know what common knowledge is. Kuja originally being a girl might be common rumor/theory, but common knowledge? No.

Square is Square. Somehow, I don't doubt that people do still just scrap one idea and try a new one, regardless of change of name or company or whatever.

Um, no. Square is not Square, SE is so far from being SquareSoft. Quite a few people from SquareSoft left when Square Enix was formed. The teams behind IX and XII are also different, the only "big name" to be on both is Hiroyuki Ito.

I just want to add a point here - I happened across an old thread where someone actually asked their opinion on the matter. You seemed all too eager to put forward this theory again. You, as Riku said, are just putting out a random theory you made up (at least I didn't just make my theory up) and broadcasted it as fact. Also, what is your interest in people who aren't secure enough in their sexuality, eh?

I never said my theory was fact. I'm confident in my theory and it probably does apply to some, but I never said it was fact and I always referred to it as a theory (which in itself admits that it is just hypothetical). As a matter of fact, when I first applied my theory to you, I seem to recall at the end typing "amirite?" So basically, I was confident in it, yet I still asked just in case I was wrong (which I was).

 

[Howl]

And the youtube video that I snagged it from...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=nPjDlvWvmrQ


It really does appear to be a thong, regardless of whether or not I personally think that he's a male...

Notice the sharp V-shaped dip of this "thong/strap/piece". Also notice how low the V is as it connects to his "skirt/cape".

Also notice that as the V travels up his hips it stops, then travels sideways along his waist...See where it stops...this is your indication that he is indeed wearing a thong.

If he were wearing an under"thing" that could cover his butt, the coverage would HAVE to start at LEAST here...at the stop I marked above...

See...the dip is just too narrow to cover his butt...
Sorry I rushed this explanation, but my cocoa is getting cold...

 

[Rockman X]

And the youtube video that I snagged it from...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=nPjDlvWvmrQ


It really does appear to be a thong, regardless of whether or not I personally think that he's a male...

Notice the sharp V-shaped dip of this "thong/strap/piece". Also notice how low the V is as it connects to his "skirt/cape".

Also notice that as the V travels up his hips it stops, then travels sideways along his waist...See where it stops...this is your indication that he is indeed wearing a thong.

If he were wearing an under"thing" that could cover his butt, the coverage would HAVE to start at LEAST here...at the stop I marked above...

See...the dip is just too narrow to cover his butt...
Sorry I rushed this explanation, but my cocoa is getting cold...

Great post. Only it's not a thong. You said yourself it connects to his skirt thing. You can see the entire "thong" connect and wrap around his skirt. It's like suspenders, basically. The front of his panties/thong/whatever is connected to the same thing, so it's all probably one solid piece of clothing. I thank you for effectively ending this stupid argument.