How does the plot of VIII compare to the other main Final Fantasy games (Spoiler alert)

[graverobber9]

I have completed only two Final Fantasy games. I played through Final Fantasy VIII in March and I just finished my first playthrough of Final Fantasy X today. This summer break I plan on playing through VII and IX as well.

I'm asking this because, though the FFVIII storyline was functional, I was astounded by how much better the storyline in X was. By the end of VIII I was just playing it for the gameplay and not because I was emotionally attached to any of the characters or had any interest in the plot. X, on the other hand, was extremely solid in both departments. I loved the exciting world of Spira and how much they dwelved into the backstories of all the characters. The game also had really mature themes for a video game: self sacrifice and religious corruption that I found really interesting.

VIII on the other hand didn't have really a very interesting world and none of the charcters really had any backstories that I could relate to (other than Squall). There was really only one theme in the game: romance, while X had that plus explorations of various other topics. I think the most telling moment of the quality of VIII's storyline is the ending dungeon which was inside of a spooky sorceress castle, whereas the ending dungeon in X was inside of a huge supernatural beast.


So, what is the consensus on the storyline of VIII, and how does it compare to the storylines of the other Final Fantasy titles (VII-XIII, preferably). Is it really as flat as I think it is?

 

[ElvenAngel]

It's all relative--at least that's how it was for me. Warning for long post, btw. Get a drink and read carefully.

FFVIII's storyline is defined by subtlety, something the FF series never really had a good grasp of. True, Spira is a more vibrant world. FF8's unnamed world is vastly different. It's a much more somber, grounded place which I personally found much more engaging despite its simplicity. The political clashes and turmoil was a far more believable and interesting setting than a world plagued by a huge whale abomination and people pay more attention to an underwater game than how to get rid of it.

I also thought the attitudes of the people of the FF8 world were better than Spira's. The whole acceptance of fate thing they had going on was just a big put-off for me.

It's true that FF8 likes to focus more on Squall and Rinoa (and on a lesser extent, Laguna) as far as characters go. On one hand that is indeed damning because it makes people less interested, but on the other hand, it kind of makes sense. Few stories succeed when they're trying to make too many characters very important. I would like to disagree on the ground that FF8 is only talking about romance and love, because it isn't. Superficially you might be tempted to think so and you'd be right, but if you take a step back, you'll realize that in fact it's touching on some things that are much, much darker than that.

FF8 wanted to tell a story of love and emotional maturity and to do that it had to focus more on the two people who are the subject of the themes rather than everyone else.

FF8's story is in itself more about psychology and specifically it paid a lot of attention to the emotional and mental handicap Squall and his friends were subjected to as part of being child soldiers. Once you realize that's what FF8 is all about and not defeating the sorceress (it's really just a setting, unlike with Sin in X) you realize that FF8 is taking you down a road you probably don't want to be. I know I was pretty horrified when I realized this matter but at the same time it made me respect the game more. It was essentially giving you a new angle of the 'price of power' moral. In exchange for becoming superbly trained soldiers, SeeD possibly sacrifice their psychological and emotional well-being. Most of them begin training as children (It's implied that Squall and Seifer were no older than 5 or 6 when they started) and are subjected to a life-style that while not actively depriving them of their free will and emotional development, it still stints their growth. They have limited experience in matters of life and social interaction.

Seifer and Squall both present two different examples of how 'broken' they are, psychologically. Seifer, who as a child was a bit of a bully, was allowed to become a reckless, selfish and irreverent character who took far too much pride in his excellent training, borderlining on monstrocity. Squall, on the other hand, a sad and possibly shy child, became cold and aloof and you can see that his 'coldness' is more of a social awkwardness and an inability to deal with situations that require emotional maturity, something he lacks because technically he's still a kid who is expected to react to adult situations.

In short, FF8 isn't afraid to show you a vision of how a lot of young people feel: trapped between wanting to behave like adults and not knowing how.

Honestly, take a step back and you'll see that all the main characters, with Squall most prominently, do this: They behave the way children THINK adults behave, trying to act as grownups but not being able to. They grew up in a military setting, taught more about war and combat than about life.

I avoid comparing the stories of FFs since they all focus on different things, but I think 8 just puts more weight onto the psychology and underlying elements of the characters than it does on the surrounding story. If anything, as a game it's a weirdly good example of character study than a grand tale of adventure, and I completely understand how that can rub some people the wrong way.

I'll only object to the final dungeon element, as I found Ultimecia's castle to be the most interesting final dungeon in the series, with a possible exception of IX's. I viewed it more as a manifestation of Ultimecia's psychological world, a confusing, dark and treacherous place, filled with overwhelming beasts and deadly adversaries. Just like Ultimecia's motives and character are distant and obscure, the same elements show up in her castle which I find to be rather a stroke of creative genius on the part of the writers.

In conclusion, I'd say no, FF8 is by far not as flat as you think it is. I'd say give the game a second play through and don't pay so much attention to the setting and framework story. Pay more attention to the characters and think about how they behave throughout the game, keeping in mind the fact that they're essentially children struggling to act in situations that normally are faced by adults.

To resort to tvtropes speak, it's somewhere near the region of nightmarish--or at least it was for me.

 

[WanderingAesthetic]

Each Final Fantasy is it's own mixed bag, but mostly the plots fall between what you've seen with VIII and X. We're drifting into the waters of opinion here, so you know, be warned.

X is my favorite in terms of plot, but VII comes a very close second. It's got a well developed, dark, dirty world. The plot is way convoluted, chances are there will be a couple of moments where you have no clue what's going on, but everything comes together beautifully. (And the plot twists aren't out of nowhere and stupid, like VIII's ) The cast is excellent, I think I love every single character, and while it's definitely Cloud's story, all of your PCs get some time in the limelight.

IX you really can't go wrong with either. It takes the feel of the 2D games and expands on it. It's got a good cast, fun world, decent plot. A lot deeper and darker than it's style leads you to think at first. It's silver in all areas but gold in none, though, so it has a tendency to get overlooked.

XII and XIII I recommend only with rather large caveats. XII has a really deep world, but it's really easy to miss a lot of the detail put into it. For example, during a part of the game you go to talk to the Gran Kiltias, who is basically that world's equivalent of the Pope. On my first playthrough I had NO CLUE who this guy was or why I was going to see him. As the plot involves a lot of politics and back-stabbery, this is pretty sloppy. Also, a third of your party is there for no apparent reason.

XIII is excellent in terms of character development. It has a great ensemble cast. But... it's kind of bad in terms of everything else. The world might be interesting, but I don't know, because the game never gave me the chance to explore it.

I'd encourage you to give some of the 2D games a chance if you're looking for a good story. Especially VI.

As for VIII... It does a lot of things right, but it also does a lot of things wrong. I feel like it never fulfilled the promise it had in the first disc. You were set up for this epic rivalry with Seifer, this mysterious villain Edea, and you knew Squall and Rinoa were going to get together, but you didn't know how. But then... you never get a satisfying showdown with Seifer, they switch the villain on you and the romance is pulled on you suddenly without much development. And, yeah, your secondary characters get dropped about halfway through. Especially Quistis. Mostly I just felt let down by it. Yet... it's not just about romance. All those themes about war and childhood that ElvenAngel just talked about are there, but they're between the lines.

 

[CrazedMonkey]

I'll admit that romance was a very big part of 8's story, but it's really not the only one. The game doesn't focus on the other characters as much mostly because it's main focus, Squall needs to be explored deeply in order to understand it. While the the other characters (sans Rinoa) grew up in an orphanage the way Squall did, none of them really had anyone that they were emotionally attached to. Squall lost his mother young and his father was off fighting a war and didn't find out about his son and Ellone being sent to an orphanage until much later. Ellone was the only emotional attachment Squall had left, so when she was taken away it left him with what you might call abondonment issues. He was left scared that if he became attached to anyone else, they would be taken away from him again. This was the cattalyst for Squall's standoffish nature. His emotional development wasn't something you could do halfway so it took up a lot of time and took away from the other characters.
While the game itself never explored this too deeply, Ultimecia was another more complex character that if I remember right, they wrote an entire book about back in Japan. Ultimecia grew up in a world where SeeD became twisted. Rather than protecting the world from malevolent sorceress', they turned into merciless witch hunters. Ultimecia is the very last sorceress in the world and was forced to watch as those like her were slaughtered just for being born. On top of that, she inevitably ended up with the combined power and experiences of all the sorceress' in the world as she was the only one left to inherit it. The mental strain eventually drove her mad, turning her from a terrified young woman into genicidal maniac. Ultimecia goal of time compression is actually sparked by her desire to be left alone. She has become convinced that so long as people exist, they will never stop trying to kill her. This fear lead to the conclusion that only way to save herself was to create a place where only she could exist, hence, time compression.
Rinoa was another one that had an interesting story, or at least I thought so. She goes from a pampered rich girl to the leader of a resistance, putting her on the opposing side of her own father. I personally felt that it showed a great deal of conviction on her part as she could see the oppresion of others around her, yet couldn't simply let things be. She took up arms despite knowing what it would mean in the long run. In the process, she finds that now she has to work with trained soldiers, one in particular being a hardcore realist: Squall. It brings into light the drastic differences in their way of thinking. Rinoa is idealistic and empathetic while Squall is realistic and apathetic. He offers no words of comfort to distressed ally's, feeling it's better if they don't delude themselves with what they WANT to believe over the more harsh truth. This eventually leads to a point where Rinoa herself must face this more harsh side of the world, specifically: her failed attempt at sealing Edea's powers. She is completely overpowered and unable to defend herself when it matters most. This only worsens when she learns she's a sorceress because she's forced to face the fact that the entire world may come to hate her. Harsh reality begins to set in, and her idealism is no longer a comforting escape.
I may have gotten slightly off topic there, not really sure anymore. I will honestly say though, that I disagree with you about 10. I became attached to no one, at least not so much that I could continue the game. The characters in 10 did nothing for me, nor did the story. It was the first FF game I've ever played where I completely lost interest before I even got to the final dungeon. I know the story and how it ends, but felt nothing for it. Tidus in particular was my least favorite part. Granted, at least he had a personality (unlike Vaan from 12 who seemed about as emotional as a cardboard cutout with a bag of sick taped to it) but it wasn't a terribley likable one. He often came across as an ignorant child that refused to grow up.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that it mostly comes down to the individual playing the game. FF8 has been my favorite FF, and still is one my favorite games overall, since it was released. I do believe you should give 8 another chance to impress you, as you might notice things you didn't before that could change the experience, but I don't wanna push you into it either. Go with whatever you like.