Eventually restarting the RPG?

[Rasputin]

There isn't much left to do with the RPG, as we all know, yet there are still quite a few new players that would probably be interested in the RPG if it wasn't so complicated and party oriented. The RPG we designed was based on what we could do in the Beta release- we have a lot more tools now, and we can make the game a lot cleaner. Plus, you have some other major problems going on with the game, like the following:

-NPC's are not coordinated, meaning many conversations do not make much sense
-Monsters stats are over-inflated because of the enormous advantage dual wielding gives
-Stats are enormously unbalanced away from HP and MP
-PvP battles result in mostly one hit kills
-Depending on the world map to move everywhere is a major pain

Here is my "solution" to some of these issues:

Players should start with the following stats:
HP:100
MP:100
STR:10
DEF:10
MAG:10
MAGDEF:10
DEX:10
EVA:10
SPD:10

The max stats should be as follows:
HP:1000
MP:1000
STR:100
DEF:100
MAG:100
MAGDEF:100
DEX:100
EVA:100
SPD:100

The attribute increments should be as follows:
HP:10 per attribute point
MP:10 per attribute point
STR:1 per attribute point
DEF:1 per attribute point
MAG:1 per attribute point
MAGDEF:1 per attribute point
DEX:1 per attribute point
EVA:1 per attribute point
SPD:1 per attribute point

Each player should get 5 attribute points per level. The theoretical max level should be Lv. 100.

Hand equipped weapons will almost ALL un-dual-wieldable, except perhaps a very weak weapon that a player can gain far into the game. A player should not be able to EVER do over, say, 200 damage with equipped weapons. Spells should do a maximum of 600 damage, and up to 1000 if it is a poison effect.

Spells would be virtually ONLY damaged based spells, though they could have other effectors, like a "poison gun" could lower the opponents DEX. Potions will come in permanently limited quantities- they will serve as “ammo” and “medipacks”, and will come only from NPCs, but players can hold an unlimited supply of them. The only inn will be at the very beginning of the game, it will be expensive, and it will be relatively far away from a location you can get to from the world map.

NPC's would function only as "advisers" that tell you basic info about your mission, and possibly give you bonus items. They would ALL be controlled by variables set by a "master NPC" at the beginning of the game (which would be further controlled by a "has not visited location X" condition.

Components, enchantments, and pets should be completely removed. They are not necessary and complicate a perfectly fine battle system. Defensive armor will come in “sets” and will ONLY serve as a means to increase the player’s DEF after certain story events. Attacking weapons will also be limited but will mostly be found through non-essential NPC’s.

The majority of locations will be hidden. There will be a few specific “warp rooms” in strategic locations that players can access any time through the world map. A helper NPC will appear in each of these rooms. They will unlock new warp rooms once the player has fulfilled specific mission objectives.

Enemy monsters will follow EXACTLY the same level scheme as players do. If an area needs to be tougher, more bots can be added. Honestly, making bots that have tougher-than-player stats is completely unnecessary, even for bosses.

I talked to Darkblade about this, and he thought it was a good idea, but we should wait until the gold release comes out. I’m planning on working on it now but keeping the areas closed to normal members. Think about it, folks.

 

[Koloth]

We have 4 RPG Directors now. To be honest, reseting the whole game is not totally required. Even after Gold, the software is going to go through changes. In the past, you have wanted to work alone and continually jump into different unrelated ideas. There are 3 other people involved. I wish to discuss it with them. Other than you go off on your own ideas again.

STL and I have discussed the issues with the game. I do not think there is a need for a completely new game. If we did that, as far as I am concerned, everything would need to be reset anyway. Including the defaults. I think the best thing to do is improve the existing game. STL and I believe that we could do that. I would rather see the existing game fixed than a totally new game made. Also, there have been several members who have advanced pretty far in the existing game. To be honest, there have not been any major complaints. You seem to be the only person with the major complaints.

Think about it, Adamant. The idea is rediculous. I know about the problem with the weapons. I also know that there are issues with some of the features. I do not think Gold is the end of it either. ZT has a lot more features in store for the future.

 

[Dean Winchester]

We have 4 RPG Directors now. To be honest, reseting the whole game is not totally required. Even after Gold, the software is going to go through changes. In the past, you have wanted to work alone and continually jump into different unrelated ideas. There are 3 other people involved. I wish to discuss it with them. Other than you go off on your own ideas again.

STL and I have discussed the issues with the game. I do not think there is a need for a completely new game. If we did that, as far as I am concerned, everything would need to be reset anyway. Including the defaults. I think the best thing to do is improve the existing game. STL and I believe that we could do that. I would rather see the existing game fixed than a totally new game made.

Think about it, Adamant. The idea is rediculous. I know about the problem with the weapons. I also know that there are issues with some of the features. I do not think Gold is the end of it either. ZT has a lot more features in store for the future.

I completely agree with Koloth, reseting the whole game would require us to colse the RPG Inferno for a while which will make some of our top players a bit upset.

We don't need to reset the game though we could make some changes and add a few more locations to the world map, and discuss about if we should create more components, new item classes, etc.

I know that you want to make every NPC of the game useful but, if I remember well, there's not a single game in which verey NPC tells a player useful info, sometimes they just make useless comments "Oh I like today's weather", or "The Imperials stole everything from us..." like in FFXII.


Giving them a max str of 100 would make them complain even more. Yeah, yeah I know that we can ignore their comments and make rules about "Dob't complain about the str limit, etc.." but we must remember that the purpose of the RPG is to let our players have some fun and increase the overall activity of both the comunity and the RPG Inferno.

 

[Tielknight]

We have 4 RPG Directors now. To be honest, reseting the whole game is not totally required. Even after Gold, the software is going to go through changes. In the past, you have wanted to work alone and continually jump into different unrelated ideas. There are 3 other people involved. I wish to discuss it with them. Other than you go off on your own ideas again.

STL and I have discussed the issues with the game. I do not think there is a need for a completely new game. If we did that, as far as I am concerned, everything would need to be reset anyway. Including the defaults. I think the best thing to do is improve the existing game. STL and I believe that we could do that. I would rather see the existing game fixed than a totally new game made. Also, there have been several members who have advanced pretty far in the existing game. To be honest, there have not been any major complaints. You seem to be the only person with the major complaints.

Think about it, Adamant. The idea is rediculous. I know about the problem with the weapons. I also know that there are issues with some of the features. I do not think Gold is the end of it either. ZT has a lot more features in store for the future.

I completely agree with Koloth, reseting the whole game would require us to colse the RPG Inferno for a while which will make some of our top players a bit upset.

We don't need to reset the game though we could make some changes and add a few more locations to the world map, and discuss about if we should create more components, new item classes, etc.

I know that you want to make every NPC of the game useful but, if I remember well, there's not a single game in which verey NPC tells a player useful info, sometimes they just make useless comments "Oh I like today's weather", or "The Imperials stole everything from us..." like in FFXII.


Giving them a max str of 100 would make them complain even more. Yeah, yeah I know that we can ignore their comments and make rules about "Dob't complain about the str limit, etc.." but we must remember that the purpose of the RPG is to let our players have some fun and increase the overall activity of both the comunity and the RPG Inferno.

I would have to agree with both of you. The players are happy where they are, and many of them have spent many hours getting where they are.
Even though the main story is practically over, there can be tons of side-quests, just like the actual games. Also, having player only be able to get healing items from NPC's would be very confusing, and can be taken advantage of as well. I say the game is just fine as it is, we can just add onto it and continue the storyline, or maybe even add a severe plot-twist or two to keep things going.

I would also like to point out, that when the RPG was reset at GZE, the number of players when it came back on dropped dramatically. If the RPG system was reset here, the same thing would happen. The only way would to keep the members would be to get it reset and redone in a week or 2, otherwise, the members will get tired of waiting and won't come back. That would be almost impossible, seeing as all of the RPG mods are online at the same time once or twice a week.

 

[Rasputin]

You're so called "come backs" fail immensely. But, since this is a so called democracy, I am obligated to go through each one individually:

We have 4 RPG Directors now. To be honest, reseting the whole game is not totally required. Even after Gold, the software is going to go through changes. In the past, you have wanted to work alone and continually jump into different unrelated ideas. There are 3 other people involved. I wish to discuss it with them. Other than you go off on your own ideas again.

First, learn to speak proper English. Second, it is totally required if we want to make the RPG longer lasting than it is now. Third, I didn't reset the RPG, so don't act like I did something horrible without consulting anybody.

STL and I have discussed the issues with the game. I do not think there is a need for a completely new game. If we did that, as far as I am concerned, everything would need to be reset anyway. Including the defaults. I think the best thing to do is improve the existing game. STL and I believe that we could do that. I would rather see the existing game fixed than a totally new game made. Also, there have been several members who have advanced pretty far in the existing game. To be honest, there have not been any major complaints. You seem to be the only person with the major complaints.

That's because you have never listened to any of the non-moderator members, or seem to care about anything they think. There really is no point to improving this game- what is there to improve? Sure, you can add more powerful weapons, more monsters, etc., but you're just adding on to an already flawed battle system.

Think about it, Adamant. The idea is rediculous. I know about the problem with the weapons. I also know that there are issues with some of the features. I do not think Gold is the end of it either. ZT has a lot more features in store for the future.

ZT ALWAYS is going to be releasing a new version. Darkblade is the one who suggested waiting until the gold release, I wanted to do it as soon as possible. My philosophy is that we should do the best with what we have now and worry about future features if they are actually released.

I completely agree with Koloth, reseting the whole game would require us to colse the RPG Inferno for a while which will make some of our top players a bit upset.

I bet I could make every top player agree with me that resetting to a new and improved RPG setup is a great idea. Unless, of course, you think the only "worthy of making decisions" top player is yourself. In that case, you really have no way of knowing what in god's name other people will think. This argument fails.

We don't need to reset the game though we could make some changes and add a few more locations to the world map, and discuss about if we should create more components, new item classes, etc.

I know that you want to make every NPC of the game useful but, if I remember well, there's not a single game in which verey NPC tells a player useful info, sometimes they just make useless comments "Oh I like today's weather", or "The Imperials stole everything from us..." like in FFXII.

Try actually reading my post. I want ONE useful NPC that appears in multiple locations, and have every other NPC just display text that gives advice but is not necessary to proceed.

Giving them a max str of 100 would make them complain even more. Yeah, yeah I know that we can ignore their comments and make rules about "Dob't complain about the str limit, etc.." but we must remember that the purpose of the RPG is to let our players have some fun and increase the overall activity of both the comunity and the RPG Inferno.

Nobody is going to complain about the STR limit because the enemy monsters will have the same limit as well. The only reason people do not like the limit now is because of how ridiculously high enemy HP levels are, and how stupidly overpowered dual wielding is. YOU might complain because you won't have a huge advantage over other players, but that is your fault, not mine.

I would have to agree with both of you. The players are happy where they are, and many of them have spent many hours getting where they are.
Even though the main story is practically over, there can be tons of side-quests, just like the actual games. Also, having player only be able to get healing items from NPC's would be very confusing, and can be taken advantage of as well. I say the game is just fine as it is, we can just add onto it and continue the storyline, or maybe even add a severe plot-twist or two to keep things going.

Are you honestly willing to just keep on adding stuff for eternity??? You're going to hit a limit eventually where you either have to make really easy enemies, give players ridiculously overpowered spells, or have to change the default settings. THE GAME IS OVER. YOU CANNOT MAKE TOUGHER BOTS THAN WE HAVE NOW, OR THEY WILL BE IMPOSSIBLE TO BEAT. END. OF. STORY.

I would also like to point out, that when the RPG was reset at GZE, the number of players when it came back on dropped dramatically. If the RPG system was reset here, the same thing would happen. The only way would to keep the members would be to get it reset and redone in a week or 2, otherwise, the members will get tired of waiting and won't come back. That would be almost impossible, seeing as all of the RPG mods are online at the same time once or twice a week.

GZE is a stupid forum with no idea in hell how to make a good RPG. People join online RPG's because they want a chance at being the absolute toughest member- it is simply impossible for new members to do this now, as the only members capable of getting to the last area in the game are a small group of elite members that have played since the beginning. If one of them left, it would be devastating. In my version, EVERYBODY would have a shot at being king no matter when they joined.

It really boils down to whether you care about the single player or PvP battles more. I know for a fact that Koloth doesn't care at all about PvP battles, and I'm assuming STL and Tielknight don't either. Well, I dare you all to find ONE example of a popular MMORPG that does not support multiplayer- every single big MMORPG out there is based on the idea that a PvP battle should be just as exciting as a normal one against bots, yet involve more strategy. In our current setup, players get so little HP that they are usually instantly killed after one spell or a dual hit with a sword. You guys have not convinced me that making an invisible second game is wrong, therefore, I'm doing it anyways.

 

[Koloth]

Your long winded reply seems to me to just be full of insults. I do discuss issues with regular members and I was not the one who created ridiculously powerful bosses. The point of my post is that these ideas need to be a team effort. In the past, you have not shown that you are a team player. Your last post proves it. You would rather just try to win out.

This statement proves it.

You guys have not convinced me that making an invisible second game is wrong, therefore, I'm doing it anyways.

Yes, I am not really interested in PvP. Why bother with a complex RPG game, if the only thing players are interested in is PvP battles? The game needs to draw interest. Continually going off on tangents, as you do, will kill interest quickly.

We have already gone over this time and time again. The problem is not the game. The problem is that you did not even bother trying to play it. Many players proved that your complaints about my monsters were pointless. It only showed me that you like to complain about what others do. You just want to be the whole show.

In our current setup, players get so little HP that they are usually instantly killed after one spell or a dual hit with a sword.

This statement is totally wrong. Many players have high HPs. Mine is over 1000 and many of the higher leveled players have higher than 1000. I just did the tourney and there were a couple of really long battles. You told me that you do not like long PvP battles. I have been in several. So your one hit argument does not hold water.

Also, all RPGs require a lot of time leveling up. There will always be a few players that are further than others. This does not mean that the people, who do not have the time to play, cannot learn and enjoy the game.

Also there is no such thing as an invisible game. Eventually all games will be beat by somebody. The point is to make a challenge that is fun.

We don't need to reset the game though we could make some changes and add a few more locations to the world map, and discuss about if we should create more components, new item classes, etc.

If you are changing how the main stats are being setup, you will need to reset the game. Because the defaults would need to be changed. The defaults control the game. If it is just about weapons and adjustments to monsters, you would not need to reset the game. I really am never for totally starting from scratch, unless there is no other option. I see other options.

Starting a new game would take three months. Also the game will have to be taken offline again. I am sure this would not make players very happy,

I agree the NPCs need to be totally fixed. To be honest, that is the major problem with the game. Some of this is ZT's fault, for not having some important trigger conditions. One being "player has not beaten boss x".

Totally changing the NPCs would not require a reset. Even modifying weapons and monsters would not require reseting the game. But changing the stat setup would require a total reset and the game being taken offline. Which is a very bad idea.

 

[Tielknight]

Are you honestly willing to just keep on adding stuff for eternity??? You're going to hit a limit eventually where you either have to make really easy enemies, give players ridiculously overpowered spells, or have to change the default settings. THE GAME IS OVER. YOU CANNOT MAKE TOUGHER BOTS THAN WE HAVE NOW, OR THEY WILL BE IMPOSSIBLE TO BEAT. END. OF. STORY.

This game is not over by a long shot. We can just slowly change the character stat limits. Then we will be able to continue the game for "ETERNITY", as you put it. Everytime we get to the "end" of the story in the rpg, are you going to reset it everytime? In many RPG's you can continue playing the game, even after you have defeated the final boss, so why should this be any different?

People join online RPG's because they want a chance at being the absolute toughest member- it is simply impossible for new members to do this now, as the only members capable of getting to the last area in the game are a small group of elite members that have played since the beginning. If one of them left, it would be devastating. In my version, EVERYBODY would have a shot at being king no matter when they joined.

That would not be fair to those who have spent a good amount of time playing the game, only to be surpassed by a person who has just joined.
Also, not everyone joins to be the strongest member, people do play for FUN, not just to be the best.

 

[Dean Winchester]

Nobody is going to complain about the STR limit because the enemy monsters will have the same limit as well. The only reason people do not like the limit now is because of how ridiculously high enemy HP levels are, and how stupidly overpowered dual wielding is. YOU might complain because you won't have a huge advantage over other players, but that is your fault, not mine.

First of all, try to think about WHO was the one WHO gave himself rediculous huge stats at the very beginning of the game when every player, even RPG Mods have been playing the wholr game since it was reopened. I accept that some of my spells are strong but hey! Even Neo defeated my twice and I don't use Mod Spells for PvPs since it would be highly unfair.



Second, I don't know about you, but most of the players are interested in PvPs, and they enjoy a good challange. As Koloth once said: "The RPG is supposed to be interesting not boring"

Third, you know what happened with the Castle Pandemonium from F1 to F9, the players totally owned the area in a matter of hours. Strife beated the Castle on his first attempt when they lasted almsot three days to beat the Cave of Trials.


I asked the players about which area was better between the Castle and the cave of Trials and they answered the same question: "The Cave of Trials was better"

You know why? Because if, as a normal player you play through the "Ocean" you get really strong, in fact strong enough to easily pawn the First areas of the Castle in at least 6 hours.

Also, now that you are using caps for words since I guess that you think we can't read small letters I'll use the same method: EVERY GAME HAS AN END and THERE WILL ALWAYS BE A PLAYER WHO WILL BEAT THE GAME.

Come on Mike, if you wanted to tell us that our ideas were wrong and yours were good then at least you could show some respect to your colleagues, insults never work and telling someone in such a derogatory way to learn proper English is really unrespectful.

Also, if you think, that my work as a RPG Mod is really lame (because I somehow think that's what you want to say), you could at least send me a PM telling me what should I do in order to improve my skills with the RPG ACP. Most of the things I learned were because Koloth used some of his free time to explain me the basics, and almost every NPC, monster or area were inspired on his work.

I wanted to create the new areas that we are currently working on since some of the high level players suggested me to place "Jecht" as a boss without some of the RPG Mod spells, and limiting his othr spells. That's why I created "The Zanarkand Ruins", The Farplane and "Dream Zanarkand" with both Tiel's and Koloth's help. As a team we created those areas, as a team we fixed some of those monsters, as a team we are still testing the areas, and AS A TEAM we found out what was wrong and what was unnecessary in those areas.


Now, could we just stop these silly insults and continue with our work?

 

[Tielknight]

Now, could we just stop this silly insults and continue with our work?

Thank you STL. We should spend less time bickering and more time working.
The RPG is doing ok right now, so lets just continue.

The players are doing ok right now, there haven't been many complaints, and most of the complaints have been saying that it is too easy.

 

[Rasputin]

First of all, try to think about WHO was the one WHO gave himself rediculous huge stats at the very beginning of the game when every player, even RPG Mods have been playing the wholr game since it was reopened. I accept that some of my spells are strong but hey! Even Neo defeated my twice and I don't use Mod Spells for PvPs since it would be highly unfair.

Well, I don't accuse people of making bosses that are too easy when I use mod-spells, though you and Koloth have, and it's really annoying. Koloth HAS used mod spells in PvP battles, and that is unfair as well.

Second, I don't know about you, but most of the players are interested in PvPs, and they enjoy a good challange. As Koloth once said: "The RPG is supposed to be interesting not boring"

Yeah, because fighting monsters that take 20 minutes to beat for 4 or 5 EXP is REAL interesting! Especially when you have to go through 7 FLOORS of them when they are all exactly the same except for their images!

Third, you know what happened with the Castle Pandemonium from F1 to F9, the players totally owned the area in a matter of hours. Strife beated the Castle on his first attempt when they lasted almsot three days to beat the Cave of Trials.

And who made the monsters in Castle Pandaemonium? YOU did! Maybe if you took my advice, people would have had a heck of a lot harder time getting through it!

I asked the players about which area was better between the Castle and the cave of Trials and they answered the same question: "The Cave of Trials was better"

You asked Tielknight and Koloth, right?

You know why? Because if, as a normal player you play through the "Ocean" you get really strong, in fact strong enough to easily pawn the First areas of the Castle in at least 6 hours.

Yes, because an "interesting" game requires WAY over 6 hours to get through an area. Brilliant deduction. I'm sure in your perfect RPG, you spend a whole afternoon getting through a single bot fight, don't you?

Also, now that you are using caps for words since I guess that you think we can't read small letters I'll use the same method: EVERY GAME HAS AN END and THERE WILL ALWAYS BE A PLAYER WHO WILL BEAT THE GAME.

And once all 10 players that are capable of getting this far have beaten the game, what in god's name are you going to do? Make them train against the same bots for the rest of time? I think not!

Come on Mike, if you wanted to tell us that our ideas were wrong and yours were good then at least you could show some respect to your colleagues, insults never work and telling someone in such a derogatory way to learn proper English is really unrespectful.

It's spelled "disrespectful", Professor STL.

Also, if you think, that my work as a RPG Mod is really lame (because I somehow think that's what you want to say), you could at least send me a PM telling me what should I do in order to improve my skills with the RPG ACP. Most of the things I learned were because Koloth used some of his free time to explain me the basics, and almost every NPC, monster or area were inspired on his work.

I'm didn't say your work was "lame", I'm just noting how you keep attacking the monsters YOU created.

I wanted to create the new areas that we are currently working on since some of the high level players suggested me to place "Jecht" as a boss without some of the RPG Mod spells, and limiting his othr spells. That's why I created "The Zanarkand Ruins", The Farplane and "Dream Zanarkand" with both Tiel's and Koloth's help. As a team we created those areas, as a team we fixed some of those monsters, as a team we are still testing the areas, and AS A TEAM we found out what was wrong and what was unnecessary in those areas.

And as a team, you failed to realize that having an area called "Dream Zanarkand" makes absolutely no sense.

Now, could we just stop these silly insults and continue with our work?

Certainly, I'll continue with MY work, but I just thought you all would like to know what that work was. Guess not.

We can just slowly change the character stat limits.

And here we go! You've finally admitted that you would have to change the stat limits! And you know what happens then? All of the players that come AFTER you changed these limits would have a LOT easier time than the players before! Plus, you would further increase the massive unbalance that there is between HP and STR- say, if you increased the max STR to 500, including weapons and dual wielding, you're talking about 3000 damage a hit. So, just to survive one hit, you would need about 200 attribute points. And where would all of these points magically come from? Certainly not from leveling up, since you would have to use 50 LEVELS WORTH OF ATTRIBUTE POINTS JUST TO SURVIVE ONE HIT?