ESPERs/ Summons

Erm..

Adrammalech
Famfrit
Mateus

^ FFTA

Chaos - FF1
Zermous - FFIV
Ex-Death - FFV

.not sure where the others came from, but they all don't relate to these..FFIX coins you are going on about.

Though I was a bit miffed with the summons being replaced, I like the changes - the summons, Adrammalech especially, looked so much better then Bahamut.
 
Who thinks they would have preferred to have the normal summons than new summons that all relate to the 13 Zodiac Coins of FFIX
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Not me. It tends to get very repetitive when game after game after game, you get Ifrit, Shiva, Odin, Bahamut, etc... We all know Ifrit and Shiva are usually the same in levels and strength and stuff, and that Bahamut trumps all. Yada yada yada.

This new method threw in a mixture from different games and a few new ones overall. Change is good at times. If you used materia for learning abilities and such throughout the whole FF series, it would get stale as hell after 2 games. People beg for Square-Enix to be more creative and think of new stuff, and then we get people who complain because the same old summons weren't re-used. I'm staring right into the eyes of a contraditcion here.

I loved the new summon style. Sure it made them pointless at the end of the game, but overall, the method to obtianing them and their stories were amazing.
 
The descriptions and backstory behind some of the Espers were brilliant, with the exception of 6 and 10 I don't remember them ever getting as much love as they did in 12 for that reason. Heck, even in 10 it was more the case that they were required to complete the quest of defeating Sin but the Aeons themselves wern't explained all that well, so I could almost argue that 12 went further than 10 in that respect. As for in-game use, yes, they aren't as overpowered as they were in 10 ( looking at Anima.... ) and not as essential as they were in 6 or 8 but they still have a place. There are definitely battles where they prove they're worth.
 
Actually, it wouldn't make sense story wise for the summonings to be the same, Summonings come from people believing legends remember(final fantasy 9) and then people can summon these manifestations of legends into a physical tangible form. The summonings in twelve weren't legends though, they were creations cast away by the gods. So really, your not summoning like you did in all the other final fantasies(that is, conjuring up physical forms of legends) you are simply summoning up a being that already existed, so the summonings in twelve were more literal than any of the other final fantasies. I personally would have liked at least a cameo by bahumat or ifrit, but im fine without them I guess. It will just take some time though to warm up tot he new guys, it was fun though to see old friends and stuff, especially the guys from tactics.
 
Hmm... I haven't played 12 yet so I don't know how I'll feel. I don't like the idea of it though. Shiva, Ifrit, Bahamut, ect... were part of what made Final Fantasy, well Final Fantasy. Along with Cid, chocobos, and other staples.
 
The summons had some pretty nice designs, but I would have prefered to have kept the original cliche names.
Some of the revamed older summons like the ones from Tactics were alright, but the new ones I didn't like. =x
 
every summons of the ff XII are related to the others ff's where the history occurs in ivalice, that means: FFT - FFTA
 
Adramelech(sp?)
Was so amazing.
He was better than Bahamut.
I loved his Color Scheme and just overall loke.

Shiva and Ifrit were still better than Belias and Mateus but, I loved seeing Quecklain(Chuuchulain(sp?) ) and others with a slightlu different look but still looking sorta the same.
 
Yea, I have to with the cliche as well. Maybe it's just me but it's not so much as a cliche as it is more of an "old friends" type thing. I like seeing them. Granted they were included (in some form) which I'm happy about but there were a lot of things Matsuno left out... and that bugs me. I just like the old summons better. And why not? There was nothing wrong with them. No need really to change them. I'm not angry that they did... and it was refreshing... but I would have stuck with the old summons.

Also, I might not have thought the same way if the FFXII summons were any good. Quick quiz. How much MP does it take Yuna to summon? That's right! None! Wow, Neo Bahamut sure is cool in Final Fantasy VII... but does it take all your MP to summon it? Nope. How much MP does it take to summon Zodiark? That's right! All of it! If you're level 1 or level 100, it's til costs 3 full bars of MP. And so do quickenings. Horrible system.
 
that's what I wanted to say too: the esper system in the ff12 is horrible, I hate the fact that you dun have control over your esper, but in the other hand, judging the story of every esper, it has a reason for that. ( i mean, that you can have total control of it )
 
..Zodiark is the most powerful optional summon in the whole game, but it's to be expected.

I gave my explanation as to why good old summons would not be in place here - these Espers rebelled against their creators/Occuria - our good old FF summons were more..good guys, less likely to be the bad ones in their race. Most of the time, they just wanted a good fight, and then they would join you.
 
Judge Rulia said:
..Zodiark is the most powerful optional summon in the whole game, but it's to be expected.

I gave my explanation as to why good old summons would not be in place here - these Espers rebelled against their creators/Occuria - our good old FF summons were more..good guys, less likely to be the bad ones in their race. Most of the time, they just wanted a good fight, and then they would join you.
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ya nevermind the actual explanation I gave, jeez, does anyone actually read here or just post?
 
Yes I did read..I'm just adding my two cents about why summons shouldn't from old FF's wouldn't be suited in here.
 
Judge Rulia said:
Yes I did read..I'm just adding my two cents about why summons shouldn't from old FF's wouldn't be suited in here.
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And I'm saying your explanation doesn't make since, the summonings in the old ones had no conscience, they did the will of the summoner because they were just people conscience being manifested into a tangible physical form, they were incapable of thinking, they just did. A perfect example of this is in ten and nine. In nine you had bahumat which just obliterated Alexandria, and in ten you anima, and you also had the summonings being used against you by Yu-Yevon.
 
Also, I might not have thought the same way if the FFXII summons were any good. Quick quiz. How much MP does it take Yuna to summon? That's right! None! Wow, Neo Bahamut sure is cool in Final Fantasy VII... but does it take all your MP to summon it? Nope. How much MP does it take to summon Zodiark? That's right! All of it! If you're level 1 or level 100, it's til costs 3 full bars of MP. And so do quickenings. Horrible system.
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10 is probably the only game where they were that useful. It got to the point where you HAD to rely on them for a few battles, or so it seemed. Yet in pretty much every other F.F. I've played using the summons in-battle wasn't always that useful ( 7 has K.O.T.R. and Pheonix but apart from that... ), they were there maybe to do deal a fair amount of damage in a short time, and look cool, but they wern't as game-breakingly strong as they were in 10. So if anything 12 is slightly more traditional in its use of the summons than 10 was, they might get you out of a bind every now and again against particular enemies but you're not going to be abusing their service throughout the whole game.
 
Harbringer said:
And I'm saying your explanation doesn't make since, the summonings in the old ones had no conscience, they did the will of the summoner because they were just people conscience being manifested into a tangible physical form, they were incapable of thinking, they just did. A perfect example of this is in ten and nine.
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I don't even see what you're saying...or trying to. This game isn't like old games, so it's not really comparable in terms of the summoning system. FFIX's was FFIX's. FFXII's is FFXII's. FFIX's fit in with the story of that game. FFXII's fit in with the story of this game.

So you say that FFXII's Espers were useless? Had no correlation to the story? Hmmm, I beg to differ.

During the Age of Gods:
  • A legend states that the gods withdrew into a "city of their own making", sounding as if the gods (in the Esper legends) are the Occuria. In the ensuing years, the Occuria use their Sun-Cryst, source of deifacted nethicite, to give power to particular humans over others, shaping history as a gardener shapes plants.
  • The Espers are created by the gods, but, led by Ultima, rebel against them (apparently this is the Thousand-Years War mentioned in Hashmal's Clan Primer description). The gods bind them into glyphs, forcing them to serve whoever summons them.
Then about 1500 years ago:
  • King Raithwall, a noble of a small country in Valendia, is contacted by the Occuria and given three shards of deifacted nethicite (the Dawn, Midlight, and Dusk Shards) and the Sword of Kings. (Apparently the Occuria first give it to the garif, who find themselves unable to use it, before giving it to Raithwall.) He uses these to unite Ivalice into the Galtean Alliance. Archadia and Rozarria, members of the Alliance, take root during this time.
  • Raithwall defeats the Esper Belias and binds it to him.
About 1100 years ago:
  • Raithwall dies. He leaves the Dusk and Midlight Shards to his descendants, the House Galtea; the Dawn Shard is left in his tomb. The Sword of Kings is placed in the Stilshrine of Miriam under the tutelage of the Gran Kiltias. Belias is adjured to keep watch over the Tomb of Raithwall and the Dawn Shard.
Useless in battle? Sure, that could be true. Useless in the story? Nah, not at all.
 
I think the summons were great, even if they arent really useful its fun to show off to people when Im showing them the game "Check this out its WAY cool! *summons zodiark*" you know what I mean?

By the way...Ifrit, Shiva Bahamut and friends are used quite a bit in the story. All of the bigass ships that the Archadian empire uses are named after them, just names yeah I know...but then the way I see Bahamut coming around is pretty much a summoning you know? I guess the only reason it sucks is cuz its not us summoning them but hey, you cant have everything.
 
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