Do Nobodies Really Lack Emotion?

[Neo Bahamut]

At some points, this is presented as irrefutible dogma. The Nobodies have no emotions & any indication otherwise is just an act. However, the "acts" are extremely convincing, & sometimes, "it's just an act" really doesn't make sense as an excuse, even removing the "special" Nobodies; Namine, Xion, & Roxas, from the equation. Now, if they really do have emotions, then why would they go around proclaiming otherwise? Could it be that Xemnas has a need for puppets & just manipulates them into feeling that way?

 

[Meds]

They are like psychopaths. Psychopaths do not have real emotions, but they do a good job to be perceived that way.
The explanation for their lack of emotions is based on their lack of a heart or soul, or whatever they are missing (well, I guess it would be a 'body').. so they are pretty much just robotic ghosts of a sort.

I do agree with you though that this wasn't implemented very well. I'm thinking of people like Demyx who shows fear, Xaldin and Saix who both show heavy rage, and Xigbar who laughs quite a bit.
It's just an imperfected piece of the story, really.. The idea is there though.

 

[Oblivion_XIII]

Pretty much, they remember how to feel their emotions from when they had hearts, and they pretend those emotions are still there, but they're really not. Roxas, Riku replica and Xion are the only exceptions though, since A. Xion and Riku replica arent really nobodys, and B. Roxas can cry. Namine could be the other exception to, because just like roxas, she was born under special circumstances

 

[Neo Bahamut]

You forget, though, that Roxas & Xion both believed that they lacked emotions. How can we say they're the "exceptions" when they view themselves the same way as the other Nobodies did? Do we have any actual reliable narrator that can say, for certain, whether or not they have emotions?

I don't think this is a poorly implemented plot element. Rather, I think this is here to make us question the story.

 

[Davey Gaga]

I think they display more personality traits than emotions, really. The difference between the Organization and regular Nobodies is that the Organization can remember their lives before they lost their hearts. I've always justified it by thinking that they're drawing on their personalities from before they lost their heart. Demyx remembers being cowardly and lazy in his past life but probably doesn't really feel fear the way that normal people do. Saix remembers what it was like to have his heart and longs to have one, but probably can't feel desperation like we do, he just thinks he does.

It sounds less contradictory if you can see the line between personality and emotions more clearly.

 

[Neo Bahamut]

My question is this: Why is it necessary that they don't feel emotion, & to come up with complicated theories to justify that? Isn't it easily as likely that they really can feel emotions, but the games don't come out & say this?

 

[King Sean]

I guess it is to show how complicated their feelings are. They remember how they used to feel and act in their previous lives and try to replicate that as Nobodies. Their memories are all they have to keep them in existance, and thus they try to emulate how they used to feel. Mind you, some Nobodies like Xemnas and Saix don't try to to this, but some of the others think they do.

 

[Davey Gaga]

My question is this: Why is it necessary that they don't feel emotion, & to come up with complicated theories to justify that? Isn't it easily as likely that they really can feel emotions, but the games don't come out & say this?

Because then "losing one's heart" wouldn't do anything to you - the Nobodies wouldn't be after Kingdom Hearts and they'd continue as they had done in life. It's like asking "Why can't people still walk when they have their legs? Why can't they just walk on their hips?"

 

[Neo Bahamut]

Why can't you still live without a kidney? Oh right, you can.

You can't just make an analogy & say it's the same thing. There has to be some basis to compare them & Kingdom Hearts makes no effort to explain what a "heart" is, or how it differs from a "soul." This contrasts from your example in that we know exactly what a leg is & what it does.

I just think it's senseless to try to go into such mental gymnastics, rather than admit that it's even POSSIBLE that the Nobodies still have emotions.

For example, the answer "they want to be whole" doesn't even make sense. That implies that they have some emotion that causes them to feel incomplete. And other Nobodies, like Xemnas & Saix, clearly have a sense of pride.

 

[Davey Gaga]

Why can't you still live without a kidney? Oh right, you can.

You can't just make an analogy & say it's the same thing. There has to be some basis to compare them & Kingdom Hearts makes no effort to explain what a "heart" is, or how it differs from a "soul." This contrasts from your example in that we know exactly what a leg is & what it does.

My point is that if they can actually feel emotion, then what's the motivation to get their hearts back? They have their memories, they have their bodies, what makes them different to their past whole selves? If they can feel emotion then they're no different. The leg analogy was to highlight that you can't get the same function out of your hips as your legs - not having your legs is clearly not the same as having your legs. If you lost your legs, you wouldn't question whether or not you really needed them, or if you could function in the exact same way. In that respect, it's a good analogy because it's much more clear than using invisible and hypothetical hearts.

I just think it's senseless to try to go into such mental gymnastics, rather than admit that it's even POSSIBLE that the Nobodies still have emotions.

I think it's senseless to admit something that couldn't be more clearly stated, in the lore, as not possible - Xion, Roxas, Naminé (and possibly Axel) being the exceptions.

For example, the answer "they want to be whole" doesn't even make sense. That implies that they have some emotion that causes them to feel incomplete. And other Nobodies, like Xemnas & Saix, clearly have a sense of pride.

This is where it gets difficult because none of us are really qualified to draw lines between personality and emotions, or to classify certain emotions as personality traits (even though I tried to earlier). I find it easier to suggest that they maintain personality. It's either that or we get stuck in a circular argument of "but this is an emotion ergo they have hearts". Once again: if they had hearts then what'd be the point of...anything after KH1? Why would they be after Kingdom Hearts?

 

[Neo Bahamut]

I didn't say it wasn't possible, I'm just saying that "clearly stated" does not mean "true," per se. In literature, there are such things as context clues & unreliable narrators & I think that, when we examine it from that perspective, it's impossible to really derive a conclusion as to what they're actually getting at, unless the Ultimania comes out & confirms it, & frankly, some things are better left to speculation.

This is actually really comparable to the 1st FMA anime. Uncensored spoilers ahead. It is heavily hinted that the Homunculi don't really lack souls, as they keep being told. Wrath even gets a scene that almost seems to confirm that yes, they do have souls, when he reunites with Izumi after he dies.

So, what would be the point? Well, if we look at what Dante did, she needed followers to help her get the Philosophers Stone. So she found some newly "born" creatures who were confused & easily led to believe that they had lost some core part of themselves, then just manipulated them.

In all honesty, I think there are some hints that that's what Xemnas was really doing. Both of them may have even believed their lies, after a while.

End of spoilers.

The main difference with this analogy is that the Nobodies have clearly lost their Hearts. We're just not entirely sure what that means, in the grand scheme of things. I mean, if simply "not having a heart" meant you couldn't have emotions, it shouldn't matter whether or not Roxas & Namine were born under "special conditions." They still don't have hearts. It's a complicated metaphysical plot point.

Understand, I'm mostly playing Devil's Advocate. I think there's decent evidence to support both assertions, & if the majority of the board was arguing that they do have emotions, I'd argue otherwise, to provoke a more thoughtful discussion.