Bahamut + Ending

[Misty]

Seems I made a booboo 8D


What I thought of Vayne: One of the very few "villains" who didn't seem like the run of the mill ZOMGIWANTTODESTROYTHEWORLD type of person. Vayne never seemed to fade into the background for me, we saw him at the most important points in the game, so personally I have nothing to complain about regarding V.

 

[ThroneofDravaris]

What I thought of the Bahamut: No real complaints. After the 4-5 hour Pharos dungeon crall it didn’t really bother me that it look less then 20 mins to transverse the Bahamut. I’m kind of getting sick of this whole “characters run off and complete side quests while the entity of mass destruction sits and waits for them” suspension of disbelief crap that comes up in JRPGs pretty often and not making the final dungeon an overly long labyrinth that would inevitably require savepoints was an interesting method of circumnavigating this problem. Plus it looked cool.

What I thought of Gabranth: By far the best developed of the antagonists. He’s not as interesting as Cid but the good doctor was introduced far too late into the plot for my liking. Gabranth, too, is more absent from the game then he should have been but he was involved in enough Empire-centric cutscenes helped a lot in this area. He also has the coolest character design out of all the Judges imho.

What I thought of Vayne: I can count on one hand the number of times Vayne does anything other then stand around looking stoic. I don’t think they could have made the primary antagonist more boring if they tried. Not until the last moments of the game do you begin to see the more interesting aspects of his character and by then it’s far too little too late.

What I thought of fighting Vayne and his attacks: Definitely the best final boss battle since FFVIII. That’s some epic shit right there.

What I thought of the ending: Nothing really of note. Similar to FFIX, it pretty much ends the way you expect it to. I have to say though, Kiss me Goodbye didn’t suite the game at all. These J-Pop ballads have been working their way into the series since FFVIII and it’s becoming rather trying. It’s a pretty cheap way of making the ending overly sentimental, something that FFXII most definitely was not. Sakimoto’s fantastic tone poem ‘Hope’ that played through the credits more then made up for it though. I had waited the whole game to hear it in its entirety (it was used briefly in one of the trailers) and I wasn’t disappointed.

 

[Cactuar]

What I thought of the Bahamut: for an uber 1337 legendary sky fortress...it looked pretty unintimidating, and rather impractical as well.
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I actually thought that big space ship looked pretty badass, to me the final sky battle reminded me a LOT of the assault on the death star, at the end of A New Hope, big imperial spaceship with a big laser....rebellion, blah blah, i could go on for the next ten pages, *coughripoffcough*
So anyway, i get onboard the Bahamut, fight a couple of new enemies....bracing myself for a struggle to get to the top..., but like 5 mins later, i get to fight the last boss fights, already?....crap, they were easy too, i did too much training because of the frickin hunts....

What I thought of Vayne: wow, totally forgot he even existed, you barely hear about him through the bulk of the story. At his first transformation I thought I was watching Dragon Ball Z. Then his fusion with Venat and the resulting metallic structure built around him reminded me of the infamous Japanese cyber punk movie Tetsuo the Iron Man.
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Lol, yeah i remember watching a trailer for that Tetsuo the Iron Man thing in one of my old and obscure DVDs....freaky shit....and only if metallic Vayne reminded me of him, he would seem a lot more interesting to fight with....

I beat this game a couple of months ago, and to be frank, i cant remember much of the Judge stuff, like who's who, i know one of them, i think its Gabranth or something is Basch's brother....he played the part of Vader obviously, chainging sides at the end, to face the emperor himself xD

Geez, i still cant find you damn colour Ronin, Me=n00b

 

[JDawg]

Wow. I am behind in this mofo!

VengefulRonin, thanks for the in-depth reply. Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. But this is for you:

But no...it was a giant floating screw

See, I didn't have a problem with the shape of it. I really enjoyed that it was very unique, and very large. I remember being initially disappointed that it wasn't a monster, but I also remember thinking that it was awesome that the ship was so different. It looked imposing, and Ondore's reaction to it was awesome.

I really like how he stuck by Larsa as a loyal protector and didn't challenge Vayne until he saw Larsa wounded (i could have sworn he was KILLED, it looked that way). They really could have done more with him being Basch's brother, though.

Agreed. But at the same time, I didn't particularly buy his reasoning. More on that later.

Him attacking Larsa just made no sense. He'd held Larsa in such high regard throughout the game, even though they didn't see eye to eye, and then he just turned on him.

I know you discussed this later in the thread with someone else, but allow me to throw in my own two cents (or to simply reiterrate someone else's post!)

Vayne had motives, and while protecting Larsa was one of them, Larsa could not be allowed to stand in his way. I think in the end Vayne was surprised to see Larsa defy him. While I don't believe for a second his intentions going into the battle were to hurt Larsa, I think he acted the only way he could under the circumstances. Vayne was the Emperor, and he knew his responsibility to the throne were more important than to his blood.

he doesn't do anything else in the game to make you hate him.

This is my favorite aspect of the storytelling, actually. Square did their damndest to ensure that not one single character was totally on one side or the other; everything...EVERYTHING...was a shade of grey. From Vaan leading his pickpocket crew in Rabanastre, all the way to the sympathetic Vayne, whose only goal was to make Man the master of his own destiny, there were no true villians in this story, as there were no true heroes. Even the rebel Occura, who was arguably the most villianus villian in the game, was working in the best interest of humanity!

I really liked the Occuria subplot...but...i actually sympathized with Venat, Cid, and Vayne, and i'm not sure it's a good thing in games where you sympathize with the ones you're fighting.

Again, I believe that has to do with Square's emphasis on realistic motives. You could either view Vayne as a tyrant, or view him as a man who had the will and the power to bring humanity to the forefront of Creation. Same for Cid, who is obviously insane--despite the fact that he's not really talking to himself, after all--once was a loving father.

On a side note, I loved that Cid doesn't make peace with his son at the end. He still takes a verbal jab at him before he dissolves. No closure for the prodigal son! NICE!

The story picked up sooo much around the time you were introduced to Reddas, which only pissed me off further because they tried to jam so much into the very end. It was so unbalanced, i don't know why they couldn't have more evenly spread it out. I think that's part of what makes me so disappointed in the ending, by the time the story gets really interesting, it's over.

I'm starting to see that this is everyone's complaint. There were plenty of opportunities for Square to spread the clusterfuck of the last hour throughout the game. I remember thinking at one point (When Balthier took Ashe's ring) that the game was even getting a bit repetitive, and though they treated Ashe's words as a revelation, it wasn't anything we didn't already know. As gamers, we KNOW that the party is going to do battle with the bad guys. They could have just shown us that fact by adding some of the plot twists in earlier.

 

[Rockman X]

See, I didn't have a problem with the shape of it. I really enjoyed that it was very unique, and very large. I remember being initially disappointed that it wasn't a monster, but I also remember thinking that it was awesome that the ship was so different. It looked imposing, and Ondore's reaction to it was awesome.

Aye, it was nice to have it different from everything else and since its name was Bahamut, it rightfully should have been huge...just didn't seem very imposing to me, just a silly Death Star ripoff (giant laser beam of doom, oh noes!), as Cactuar pointed out.

Vayne had motives, and while protecting Larsa was one of them, Larsa could not be allowed to stand in his way. I think in the end Vayne was surprised to see Larsa defy him. While I don't believe for a second his intentions going into the battle were to hurt Larsa, I think he acted the only way he could under the circumstances. Vayne was the Emperor, and he knew his responsibility to the throne were more important than to his blood.

Never thought of it that way, but that's a good take on it. And as i stated before, i thought it was a great way to bring Gabranth into the fight. He didn't suddenly change his mind and think that he was on the wrong side or any cliche crap like that, he just did his duty and defended Larsa.

This is my favorite aspect of the storytelling, actually. Square did their damndest to ensure that not one single character was totally on one side or the other; everything...EVERYTHING...was a shade of grey. From Vaan leading his pickpocket crew in Rabanastre, all the way to the sympathetic Vayne, whose only goal was to make Man the master of his own destiny, there were no true villians in this story, as there were no true heroes. Even the rebel Occura, who was arguably the most villianus villian in the game, was working in the best interest of humanity!

Again, a good point Even the Occuria (excluding Venat), who seem pretty villainous with their controlling, could be seen as good because they only control humanity to keep it from wiping itself out.

Again, I believe that has to do with Square's emphasis on realistic motives. You could either view Vayne as a tyrant, or view him as a man who had the will and the power to bring humanity to the forefront of Creation. Same for Cid, who is obviously insane--despite the fact that he's not really talking to himself, after all--once was a loving father.

On a side note, I loved that Cid doesn't make peace with his son at the end. He still takes a verbal jab at him before he dissolves. No closure for the prodigal son! NICE!

I've read complaints about that Cid/Balthier ending, how they didn't patch up and act father/son enough. I thought it was quite good. Balthier was estranged from his father since he'd turned into a madman and Cid was estranged from his son because he quit being a judge and went off to be a pirate (a considerably less respectable career), so it's only natural that they didn't go all buddy-buddy at the end.

 

[JDawg]

just a silly Death Star ripoff (giant laser beam of doom, oh noes!), as Cactuar pointed out.

Ah, well, I'm not much of a Star Wars fan, so I guess I missed the similarities.

i thought it was a great way to bring Gabranth into the fight. He didn't suddenly change his mind and think that he was on the wrong side or any cliche crap like that, he just did his duty and defended Larsa.

Too true. I think it lent some light as to why Gabranth would have sold out his own brother for the sake of the Empire--duty. Which, by the way, lends to my point about Vayne attacking Larsa.

Again, a good point Even the Occuria (excluding Venat), who seem pretty villainous with their controlling, could be seen as good because they only control humanity to keep it from wiping itself out.

Too true. You could also ask what made them think it was their right to decide for humanity. So, just like every character in the game, you could see both sides of the story. I swear, I would not have complained if they allowed you to chose which side you fought for. It would have made sense, honestly.

It does make you wonder, though, what was the point of the game? While Vayne was looking to take back the reigns of history for mankind (not the wrestler...then again, Foley is God...) he was putting a lot of people at risk. But you could also say that sacrificing a few for the sake of mankind's future is justified. And without sounding stupid, you could even wonder if the Occura were wrong about Humanity.

While the story didn't grip me like VII did (no game ever will, most likely) it was deep.

I've read complaints about that Cid/Balthier ending, how they didn't patch up and act father/son enough. I thought it was quite good. Balthier was estranged from his father since he'd turned into a madman and Cid was estranged from his son because he quit being a judge and went off to be a pirate (a considerably less respectable career), so it's only natural that they didn't go all buddy-buddy at the end

I couldn't agree more. What's most interesting about that particular arch is that it was very anti-Final Fantasy. Even the ending for XII was as cheezy as an episode of Power Rangers, and all others but VII were absolutely the height of corny...ness...huh? Corniness? I don't know if that's a word.

But this particular arch was very realistic. It went against FF tradition, and was very good.

Anyway, thanks for the responses.

 

[The Best]

i am going to say nothing about the story but as for the final battle it was a bit dissapointing and a bit to easy. i mean to reach we vayne we didnt have to struggle much i mean where were the judges and a army of imperials. bahamut to was a dissapointment before entering it when i saw the cutscenes i though it would be huge but that proved to be wrong. the we got into the bahamut was also strange. grabanth was also strange and always confused. the final battle was a dissapointment a bit to easy. overall i dint like the final part

 

[F. F. Fan]

My thoughts on the Bahamut: It was interesting as far as its appearance goes, but I was completely disappointed with it, to be honest. Somehow I expected more, a lot more for a final dungeon.

My thoughts on Gabranth: Meh, not a whole lot. I liked his character and I thought he was a pretty good villain.

My thoughts on Vayne: Lol, Vayne who...? Nah, I pretty much thought the same thing... Weak as far as the main villain goes with very little story... Actually, I completely forgot about him through the bulk of the story.

My thoughts on Vayne and his attacks: I thought he was alright as far as final bosses go, but not too tough to beat.

My thoughts on the Ending : I was surprised and disappointed with the ending. In my opinion, the game left a lot of loose ends (Ocurria) that I was hoping would be tied up with a grand ending, but no such luck. For me, it was incomplete and abrupt.

In summary, I loved this game through most of the game play, from the voice acting, to the mature story telling and graphics. However, I felt the ending was so badly done; it completely turned me off to the game for a long time. I've loved all of the FF’s to date, but this was the first FF to completely disappoint me in the end.

 

[Rockman X]

My thoughts on Vayne: Lol, Vayne who...? Nah, I pretty much thought the same thing... Weak as far as the main villain goes with very little story... Actually, I completely forgot about him through the bulk of the story.

I think someone else (I can't remember who) mentioned this once, but I'll reiterate it. He probably wouldn't have been so easily forgotten if the game had worked on it's pacing more. With all the time you spend trekking across huge areas and leveling, it's extremely easy to forget just wtf has happened storywise. That works fine on MMORPGs where you have a very thin story, but in a Final Fantasy where they're trying to tell more of a story and you have lots of characters/events to remember, it's a very bad idea.

My thoughts on the Ending: I was surprised and disappointed with the ending. In my opinion, the game left a lot of loose ends (Ocurria) that I was hoping would be tied up with a grand ending, but no such luck. For me, it was incomplete and abrupt.

They did it on purpose, I imagine. That way they can immediately tie it into Revenant Wings. I mean Penelo's new outfit? C'mon, blatant lead-in to RW.

In summary, I loved this game through most of the game play, from the voice acting, to the mature story telling and graphics. However, I felt the ending was so badly done; it completely turned me off to the game for a long time. I've loved all of the FF’s to date, but this was the first FF to completely disappoint me in the end.

Ditto. To put it simply, I felt cheated. All the time and effort I'd put into the game and I get a mediocre ending that obviously isn't going to clear everything up. It's practically saying "you want closer? go buy RW, suckas!"

*EDIT*

Ugh...after 5 edits it fixes the quotes but now my font color is effed up...ghey.

 

[BennytheChemist]

I really didn't like the ending whatsoever, at all, period. The last battle was far to easy,(It was such a joke that I beat it at level 60-68 without weapons or armor equipped, seriously) Vayne was just a buff punching bag, and then the actual ending left more questions that an episode of LOST (for those of you who watch it). They could have made it a great ending and a great final battle but they didn't ,so oh well, what can ya do? They also almost, just almost, made it seem like there would be a sequal.

Other than the ending the rest of the game was utterly awesome and I guess IMO made up for the end.

 

[Bambi]

im just guna make mine quick......the ending fmv was not long enough at all (altho it still made me cry - i really need to address these emotional issues......)

the bahamut looked HUGE yet i was in and out in about 45mins. Loved gabranth, vayne was just like some random boss guy and Balthier deserved way more screen time, i like the touch with the ring being returned tho - *cue more tears*

And i didn't break a sweat either - there's no sense of achievment watching your characters do all the work - all i did was some quickenings and ate afew megalixers on the final boss.