No real topic.

[Korytco]

Think about it. None of us are independent thinkers. Not a single one of us. Consider all the objects in your home , every single object , nearly , tells you when and how to use it subconsciously. Everything you do, and think is not really independent at all, every word , every action, every object you own.

You have been taught the basics and in the end you do not use any of those basics. The more life goes on the more and more you follow the mainstream events, and on all varying levels. From drinking from a cup , to using a blanket at home properly , to going to work each day.

Everything works a specific way and is used in a specific way. Everything is invented because of similar wants and needs of man. No one is that special and they continue to all be prisoners of their own devices.

Every object in your room tells you how to think, a empty glass, a control remote, an old war grenade, magazines, books and everything else.

You are under constant control by every item around you. Every item around you tells you how to act. We chose the items that we enjoy when they provoke actions and feelings that we want to experience in life.
We let all those items control us.

A new car, for example. Controls your life before as you work hard for it, and then after wards it still controls it, I do not have to explain everything , you can see why , just use your brains.

Is it possible that life is better lived finding true, independence and control rather than following the herd like a sheep?

Every object is controlling your life. If you used every object improperly , differently than ever before, would you find enlightenment and would you discover newer, greater things in life than anyother person ?

Underlined because it is a weird idea.

 

[Bambi]

Im quite happy being 'controlled' by my possessions, I wouldn't be prepared to give any of it up just so I find true independence...

It doesn't really make all that sense tbh, I mean what would we do? Get rid of all our clothes, belongings, jobs etc? Then what? Rub 2 sticks together to light a fire?

No thanks, Id rather 'be a sheep'

 

[Korytco]

Im quite happy being 'controlled' by my possessions, I wouldn't be prepared to give any of it up just so I find true independence...

It doesn't really make all that sense tbh, I mean what would we do? Get rid of all our clothes, belongings, jobs etc? Then what? Rub 2 sticks together to light a fire?

No thanks, Id rather 'be a sheep'

Not necessarily perhaps you can find clothes in a new way, use objects spontaneously and learn to invent, create and I am talking about things far greater than clothes with that path that could be taken.

 

[Fusilli]

I don't think that objects control us. Firstly, they don't have minds, and secondly, all objects were invented by HUMANS for our convenience.

Every object is controlling your life. If you used every object improperly , differently than ever before, would you find enlightenment and would you discover newer, greater things in life than anyother person ?

Yes, by using these objects we become the same as everybody else, but some of them contribute to essential life processes. Eating, for example. A fork helps you eat, yet it isn't subconsciously saying 'Yes, that's right, stick me into your chicken, just like everybody else, muahahaha.', nor will shoving it up your butt help you find enlightenment, if that is what you mean by the second part. >_>

 

[Bambi]

Sod that, too much effort involved. Id much rather get my clothes from a different shop if I was gunna try to be different

I just rely on my amenities way too much and if it all got took away from me, Id be the first to admit that Id be well and truly screwed. Id probably starve to death or die of shock from not having my TV.

I don't think that objects control us. Firstly, they don't have minds, and secondly, all objects were invented by HUMANS for our convenience.
[/u]

Agreed

 

[Reality.Fantasy]

Using items for their convenience and entertainment does not make you a mindless automaton by any means. It just means that your body or mind has needs that need to be met, and those items like the 'blanket' or the 'book' will satisfy your yearning. If we're going to apply that logic, then the fact that every human on this planet BREATHES makes them a 'sheep'. Every living organism on Earth is independent in its own right, but dependent on resources that they need to survive.

 

[Korytco]

I don't think that objects control us. Firstly, they don't have minds, and secondly, all objects were invented by HUMANS for our convenience.

All objects have a voice though, conditioned by the beginning of man kind until now. Every object speaks to us, to use it a certain way, the way it must be used, and it controls us because we can not see other ways of doing things . We control the objects to control us, but we never control the objects to lessen the control over ourselves and to find freedom. We are all puppets without invention or true independence.
[/u]
Yes, by using these objects we become the same as everybody else, but some of them contribute to essential life processes. Eating, for example. A fork helps you eat, yet it isn't subconsciously saying 'Yes, that's right, stick me into your chicken, just like everybody else, muahahaha.', nor will shoving it up your butt help you find enlightenment, if that is what you mean by the second part. >_>

Even the most primitive animal eats another animal or life form of some sort. That is natural , this is about something else. You could go back to hunting for animals or perhaps finding alternative food sources. Apply your knowledge to food and the way you eat it is the same thing as this topic mentions. You are using human ideas as to what food is and should be. It could be other things, it is only needed because man kind thinks that it is. Genetic studdies or other things could lead to alternatives.

Using items for their convenience and entertainment does not make you a mindless automaton by any means. It just means that your body or mind has needs that need to be met, and those items like the 'blanket' or the 'book' will satisfy your yearning. If we're going to apply that logic, then the fact that every human on this planet BREATHES makes them a 'sheep'. Every living organism on Earth is independent in its own right, but dependent on resources that they need to survive.

Breathing is living , sheep follow. Breathing is natural . No your entertainment controls materialistic, fabricated needs of importance. Fashion statements and what is "cool" or important in life when none of it is reality and you just waste time in front of that TV when you could be out there exploring real life.

 

[Fusilli]

Even the most primitive animal eats another animal or life form of some sort. That is natural , this is about something else. You could go back to hunting for animals or perhaps finding alternative food sources. Apply your knowledge to food and the way you eat it is the same thing as this topic mentions.

I think I understand where you are getting at, but I disagree. I, for one, think that it is a GOOD thing that man (yes man) has invented all of these objects. It means that we have evolved somewhat from our days as cavemen. I am fully aware that animals hunt for food, however we as humans are past those days. We have developed since then. With opposable thumbs and the highest brain to body ratio of any animal, we have achieved these things and I don't see why we should go back to living like animals. If you want to give up all of your possessions then by all means do so, but may I ask what you are sitting at right now?

You are using human ideas as to what food is and should be. It could be other things, it is only needed because man kind thinks that it is. Genetic studdies or other things could lead to alternatives.

Good point, but I have tried eating soap and plastic and I have to say that it just doesn't measure up to a good chicken madras.

 

[Korytco]

Well you brought up food, I was thinking that man kind should just start seeing alternatives so that he /she can invent and create more. The man has not done anything worth writing about for awhile.

Your posts have a witt about them, you make it comical .I mean you make some of my ideas sound insane. hahah. There is varrying forms of agreement , disagreement everywhere. What one can do with an idea is make it balanced where as someone that disagrees can meke it into something hysterical .

 

[Fusilli]

Well you brought up food, I was thinking that man kind should just start seeing alternatives so that he /she can invent and create more. The man has not done anything worth writing about for awhile.

Your posts have a witt about them, you make it comical .I mean you make some of my ideas sound insane. hahah. There is varrying forms of agreement , disagreement everywhere. What one can do with an idea is make it balanced where as someone that disagrees can meke it into something hysterical .

I don't think you are insane, you are entitled to your own opinion. Like I said before, I understand what you mean, but if that means abandoning everything I own and living like Mowgli the mancub then no thanks.

 

[Korytco]

I don't think you are insane, you are entitled to your own opinion. Like I said before, I understand what you mean, but if that means abandoning everything I own and living like Mowgli the mancub then no thanks.

What if we reinvent the idea. Not to abandon everything but to use it more efficiently than the masses some how . It would be extremely hard but that does not mean it is not possible. Inventors and creators.

You understand, I will leave it at that . You are not on the spot. I am being open minded you have nothing to prove to anyone, and I do not feel like I have anything to prove to you.

 

[Fusilli]

What if we reinvent the idea. Not to abandon everything but to use it more efficiently than the masses some how . It would be extremely hard but that does not mean it is not possible. Inventors and creators.

Well that's.. interesting. Can you give me an example though? I mean, I doubt you are meaning something as simple as using a book as an umbrella, but then again, maybe you are. You can't avoid the fact that some things are invented for our convenience though. If you buy a car, it will more likely be because it is a quicker way of getting from A to B, and not to fry bacon on the engine. It's not so much that we aren't 'independant thinkers'.. we are just too lazy to be creative with objects, when it is much easier to buy an object suited to the purpose that you want it for.

 

[Korytco]

Well that's.. interesting. Can you give me an example though? I mean, I doubt you are meaning something as simple as using a book as an umbrella, but then again, maybe you are. You can't avoid the fact that some things are invented for our convenience though. If you buy a car, it will more likely be because it is a quicker way of getting from A to B, and not to fry bacon on the engine. It's not so much that we aren't 'independant thinkers'.. we are just too lazy to be creative with objects, when it is much easier to buy an object suited to the purpose that you want it for.

That is one possibility of trying the idea all together. Is to find more effective , less buisness profitable alternatives to inventions. Man inventing and creating instead of man being cheated by business profitable creations.

I do not think books should be used in destructive matters no , unless the destruction creates a more efficent result. Or if its a bad book then bring on the umbrellia, if it is s a cheap book .

There are varying forms of agreement and disagreement, the idea is radical but that does not mean it can not be used effectively. The trick is discovering people that can find an example for you.

I admit some things do make our lives more convient but perhaps if changed, altered even more convient .

 

[Soul Saver]

These objects, and tools, have pre-defined uses. We use them to achieve a desired outcome, or not... if they are ineffective at performing a certain task. It is hardly anything to do with thinking. We often do it subconsciously, once we've learned how to do it. We operate devices in order to make our lives "easier".
A calculator has only one obvious use, but you can use its components to improvise if needs be, or if you are just feeling creative. Whether we need things, well that's another matter. It's up to marketing and your own conscious and subconscious needs and desires. For another thread.
It's nothing to do with independence of thought. We just see in devices a purpose, and use them. They don't use us. They don't control us. We are often dependent on technology, yes, we take it for granted, and let's face it, why do complex sums in your head when you could use a calculator, unless you find doing complex sums fun?
Tools are a part of everyday life, we take them for granted.

It does not affect independence of thought, unless a certain device nulls independence of thought, such as television. Generally, technology does not affect political opinions by itself. It does not affect ideas by itself. Books may be channels for ideas and entertainment, television may be a medium through which dumb, gullible sheep are told what to think, etc, or not so dumb people watch programmes whilst thinking independently.
Guns function by driving projectiles at high speed, to impact upon a target, causing damage. It so happens that the ideal, and most used purpose of a gun is to cause destruction in one way or another.

I get what you're saying, but we have used and invented tools since prehistory. A pencil does not affect my political opinions. I use it subconsciously, for its designed purpose, most of the time.
It is normal for humans as a species to use tools in one way or another.

Sorry for being a bit long-winded there.

 

[Rockman X]

You have been taught the basics and in the end you do not use any of those basics. The more life goes on the more and more you follow the mainstream events, and on all varying levels. From drinking from a cup , to using a blanket at home properly , to going to work each day.

Everything works a specific way and is used in a specific way. Everything is invented because of similar wants and needs of man. No one is that special and they continue to all be prisoners of their own devices.

Yeah, it's called necessity. Or convenience.

A new car, for example. Controls your life before as you work hard for it, and then after wards it still controls it, I do not have to explain everything , you can see why , just use your brains.

Again, 'tis called necessity. Cars are necessary for transportation. And who wants to drive around in an old piece of crap? Naturally you're going to work for a new car, it's nicer to drive around in a car with AC and a CD player and whatever else and not have to be embarrassed and look like a poor sap living in the ghetto.

Is it possible that life is better lived finding true, independence and control rather than following the herd like a sheep?

Free your miiiiiiiiinds, man. It's groooovy.

Every object is controlling your life. If you used every object improperly , differently than ever before, would you find enlightenment and would you discover newer, greater things in life than anyother person ?

Underlined because it is a weird idea.

So if I used my TV remote as a dildo, would I get enlightenment from it? Or if I used a glass as a pencil holder, rather than drinking out of it, would I become enlightened? No.

It's called society. That's how things go. Material possessions are necessary, convenient, satisfying, and show status. If you want to live a life without that stuff, you might as well move to a third-world country and grow crops. Or become Amish. OH WAIT NVM. The Amish make chairs and barns and canned jams, they're just as bad.

Not necessarily perhaps you can find clothes in a new way, use objects spontaneously and learn to invent, create and I am talking about things far greater than clothes with that path that could be taken.

lolwut? So instead of us being "controlled" by things that have already been invented, you want us to invent stuff of our own and contribute to the cycle? What are we supposed to do, string together blades of grass into kilts? Geez.

 

[Bambi]

It just doesn't make sense to me at all , because if we suddenly decided to start from scratch and reinvent all this stuff, we'd only end up relying on this new stuff anyway wouldn't we?

I don't even know if Im missing the point alltogether cause this thread confused me from the off

If anyone wanted to take my internetz away from me, they would have to fight me for it

 

[Korytco]

Yeah, it's called necessity. Or convenience.

Again, 'tis called necessity. Cars are necessary for transportation. And who wants to drive around in an old piece of crap? Naturally you're going to work for a new car, it's nicer to drive around in a car with AC and a CD player and whatever else and not have to be embarrassed and look like a poor sap living in the ghetto.

Missing the point.

Free your miiiiiiiiinds, man. It's groooovy.

So if I used my TV remote as a dildo, would I get enlightenment from it? Or if I used a glass as a pen
cil holder, rather than drinking out of it, would I become enlightened? No. No one said to try an action like a fool , I never suggested that. Again, missing the point.

It's called society. That's how things go. Material possessions are necessary, convenient, satisfying, and show status. If you want to live a life without that stuff, you might as well move to a third-world country and grow crops. Or become Amish. OH WAIT NVM. The Amish make chairs and barns and canned jams, they're just as bad.
Not the point.


lolwut? So instead of us being "controlled" by things that have already been invented, you want us to invent stuff of our own and contribute to the cycle? What are we supposed to do, string together blades of grass into kilts? Geez.

No, I want people to continously create, think and live for theirselves not to control others. No. Not the point again.

We can not have an argument or even conversation because we do not understand this text in the same manner. This is not what I was trying to suggest or argue and you blatantly are looking for its negatives. I wont argue with someone who bases his side with negative remarks when he is not arguing the same point as myself , nor will I exchange negative vibes .

 

[Rockman X]

No, I want people to continously create, think and live for theirselves not to control others. No. Not the point again.

And I want you to quit replying in goddamn quotes. It's not that hard to separate a quote into bits. I'm doing it rite nao.

Now, as for creating, um....we'd need pre-existing tools to do that. And education. Which would involve tools. Your point seems rather hippie-ish and nonsensical.

We can not have an argument or even conversation because we do not understand this text in the same manner. This is not what I was try to suggest or argue and you blatantly are looking for its negatives.

Well then why don't you try explaining it better? Because from all you've said, I can only gather three themes:

1. Go live with the trees.

2. Make new things to inevitably replace the current tools "controlling" people.

3. Be a selfish bastard and live only for yourself.

 

[Korytco]

Not selfish, I just do not want people taken advantage of. I want people to explore alternatives and create "new tools" with existing tools yes, but to use simple tools for more effective, meaningful purposes. So that they can be more for filled and not as simplified. So that they wont just be puppets wasting money on more expensive products and so that they can expand their horizons .

I never said to live in the trees but if you can use the trees to live in and stick it to the man then I am all for it.

I see nothing selfish about any of it. I do not look for negative solutions to things, sorry .

I never said to use none of the original tools, you are changing the point there again. I simply said that every object controls our lives because it was meant to be something in our lives but maybe we can find other uses for it.

 

[Soul Saver]

Are tools taking advantage of people? No. People use tools to take advantage of other people.

True, alot of things people do not need, but others have become valuable assets and everyday neccessities for modern man.

Like junk medicines, they line the pockets of companies, and don't do anything to help at all. People do not need them, they are even harmful. That's what trade regulations are for.

Consumerism and economic growth cannot go on at this rate unchecked, either, perhaps an equilibrium will be found, or perhaps we will continue this growth using offworld resources. Perhaps there will be a totally different economic and political system in one hundred years, which is sustainable. We may be able to recycle most goods and raw materials highly efficiently.
One can only speculate.