Setting the Record Straight

[Lionheart3k]

To add to this debate:

You both have very valid points, Sephiroth is his own powerful being as is Kuja. i would still choose to have Kuja by my side rather than Sephiroth..I mean Kuja destroyed a whole world in a matter of minutes. From when Sephiroth summoned Meteor, how long did it take Meteor to fall? Or almost fall.

Sephiroth looks the better antagonist simply because Square have escalated his existence. If FFIX had all the sequels etc etc, what do you think Kuja would be like? So really you have to compare in a matter of just the single game FFVII itself, not Advent Children or any others.

So no, you still have done nothing to prove to me that Kuja>Sephiroth. I have disproven you on every claim you have tried to make. From your planet hopping, to your Kuja asking for forgiveness.

Sephiros, at the same time. He has disproven you on a lot of statements as well. And i am fairly sure that he doesen't think you have proved to him that Sephiroth>Kuja.

Making a lil' joke every now and then isn't a bad thing, nor does it show immaturity.

I totally agree, there really is no reason to say what you said Sephiros. After all these forums are for fun aren't they?

I'm not saying Sephiroth is a bad antagonist, i would put him second to Kuja. But i think that the power displayed in each game, Kuja's comes out the best. Your saying that because the actual party couldn't take down the world destruction threat in FFVII then that gives Sephiroth that edge over Kuja? Obviously thats not the only reason, but as YF-23 said, you cant bash a meteor back into space. Yeah he summoned it, but i bet Kuja could do the same thing if he lived in the FFVII world?

 

[TrueSephiros]

Well, with everyone dead, he can't exactly begin a civilization all by himself. And I told you, even if he found one that he would deem worthy, said civilization probably wouldn't accept him anyway, the only means he would have to create his new world would be take control of an already existing civilization.

Listen to yourself man, not once, did Sephiroth mention that he would "go to conquer" another civilization. He wanted to create a new civilization, he has stated this more than once in FFVII. Not once, Not Once, in FFVII, or AC did he state anything about "finding" a new worthy civilization to make his new world. He specifically stated, Create a New World, this would've meant that he would've had the ability to establish life himself, because he stated of a created a race within his own persona.

He wouldn't want anyone from the old world to have survived, because he deemed them all unworthy. So no, you are wrong again, please play FF VII again.

Refer to above. Unless the civilization of the other planet accepted Sephiroth, he wouldn't get his "Shining New Future". He wouldn't be accepted unless he's shown his power to them, when they would accept him as their god by fear. Then he would have a civilization of cowards, with which he still wouldn't be happy. This would continue until he either run out of planets, or he found one on which life was still at a low stage of evolution. But until the latter happened, numerous planet hopping.

The Fact of the matter is, there is no evidence to back up your statements of him wanting to "conquer" a new civilization, however there is everybit of evidence of him stating that he would create a new world. Honestly, where are you getting this "planet hopping" and "civilization" theory from? I certainly didn't see this in FFVII nor in AC.

This is nothing but your own theories, which hold no water, because there is no evidence from both the game or the movie to even give it any footing. Show me where Sephiroth specifically says "I want to take over a new civilization." or that he wants to "planet hop".

Making a lil' joke every now and then isn't a bad thing, nor does it show immaturity.

Blantly disrespecting a character that someone is debating you with is immaturity regardless, there was no comment of it being a joke as well. I could very well go on about Kuja is a queery-eyed hobo who wears a disgusting thong because he can't seem to understand attire to well.

As I said, he still managed to press the "Kill all life" button.He did nothing wrong at that. The mechanism failed, once again, that had nothing to do with Kuja. Necron's failure=/=Kuja's failure.

Yeah, and umm, this proves what? Oh, wait, nothing because it was a failure in itself. The fact of the matter is, Necron or Meteor, would have been catastrophic period. You argue as if it was "better" to have a meteor situation would've been a more reasonable thing. Which is completely outrageous, considering the one that was the size in FFVII was the size of a metropaliton city would've cleaned out 90% of all life within the impact. Everything after would've been completely annihilated by Sephiroth when he became a God and creates his New World and a brand new race to inherit it.

Necron's defeat was, just as every other or at least most end boss's defeat, a plot device so that the good guys win. Yes, that includes Sephiroth, but his can be justified by his arrogance. Necron's was just a plot device.

That's a poor excuse for saying it was just a plot device. The fact is, Zidane and the ganged, defeated Necron. It wasn't that Necron was defeated from an uknown source or whatever, but beaten down by the hands of mortals.

Sephiroth's took an ability outside of normal hands, within the hands of the planet now, as it was stated at the ending of FFVII. There was nothing that they could do, you even saw this by evidence through the ending of FFVII.

Also, Sephiroth's arrogance had nothing to do with this, the black Materia summoning Meteor was an extremely powerful magic. It would've required an infinitely higher power much more powerful than itself to stop it, which is why Holy+Lifestream was needed.

The End.

Oh, and IX's scenario is far more dangerous than VII's. I would rather risk the almost certain destruction of a planet than risk the highly possible death of all life in the universe.

Everyone would, but again, I would rather sacrifice a planet than risk the universe.

This is the poorest excuse ever, to claim now. So now are you saying FF IX is "better" then FF VII because the "universe" hung in the balance because of a planet? Lol, this is the worst and most childish reason to make a claim that "insert game" is better than "insert game", because instead of the world, it's the universe. So maybe I should rank Dragon Ball Z Buu Saga is the best plot scenario of all time, because Buu himself was going to destroy not just the living world of the Universe, but even the After-Life itself.

See how absurd that sounds? Btw, I consider Final Fantasy Tactics having the best, and extremely dangerous scenario, and there was No Planet on the Line, or No Universe on the Line. Just a portion of a land, Universe hanging in the balance does not mean = better plot driven.

In your case, though, the only way a plot has any validation is if the "Universe hangs in the balance".

So now having a static character with only backround and no present development is a good thing?

You have done nothing to prove anything, infact some of your statements have no evidence to prove it whatsoever, some of them, even made up to try and make your statements "sound" plausible.

Honestly, for a person who has stated that they never even completed FFVII, you seem to talk alot about an antagonist you know very, very little about.

Sephiroth has shown his persona throughout everything that he's done. He's manipulative, he's intelligent, he doesn't always utilize force, but infact uses other's by means of manipulation or sheer control through will to achieve his goals. Yet, he still lives, can Kuja say this? Well? Can he ever threaten the world again? Surprisingly...Sephiroth can still do this.

Sephiroth>Kuja.

Your next post better have something that doesn't involve "planet hopping" or "taking over another civilization" because those hold no water, since there is nothing from the FFVII storyline to prove these statements on any lvl.

Until then, I won't stop, because it seems many of you people simply cannot face the fact that Sephiroth was a deep, well made antagonist.

 

[YF-23]

Listen to yourself man, not once, did Sephiroth mention that he would "go to conquer" another civilization. He wanted to create a new civilization, he has stated this more than once in FFVII. Not once, Not Once, in FFVII, or AC did he state anything about "finding" a new worthy civilization to make his new world. He specifically stated, Create a New World, this would've meant that he would've had the ability to establish life himself, because he stated of a created a race within his own persona.

He wouldn't want anyone from the old world to have survived, because he deemed them all unworthy. So no, you are wrong again, please play FF VII again.


The Fact of the matter is, there is no evidence to back up your statements of him wanting to "conquer" a new civilization, however there is everybit of evidence of him stating that he would create a new world. Honestly, where are you getting this "planet hopping" and "civilization" theory from? I certainly didn't see this in FFVII nor in AC.

Where's the PROOF that he can create life? Not hinting, by "creating" a new world. That arguement just plain fails because he said he would have used the dead planet to get to another one. There is nothing that shows that Sephiroth had the ability to create life. Therefore, he needed a planet with life. Then it goes the way I said, until Sephiroth managed to reach by chance a planet on which life was still underdevelopped so that he could shape life as a god. Unless, in a different scenario, he reaches a world where because of religious reasons, everyone is expecting a saviour or something around that, and then they would have to not have any problems with the world Sephiroth wanted to create.

If you can try to tell me that he would have gotten to a scenario where he is allowed, on his FIRST TRY, to shape a new world, then do so. Else don't come off repeating the same things all over again. Yes, he doesn't want to "conquer" a civilization, BUT I'LL BE CURSED IF IT ISN'T THE MOST LIKELY OUTCOME SHOULD HE MANAGE TO REACH A PLANET WITH LIFE FIRST TRY.

This is nothing but your own theories, which hold no water, because there is no evidence from both the game or the movie to even give it any footing. Show me where Sephiroth specifically says "I want to take over a new civilization." or that he wants to "planet hop".

The rules of probability disagree with you. I said it above, but I'll make it clearer to be safe. He kills everyone with meteor, then uses the shell of the planet as a means of transport to travel to another planet. What are the chances of him reaching a planet with life? Assuming the VII universe works, in a universal scale like our own, almost none. What are the chances the planet with life has a civilization willing to accept him as their GOD or that said life is stil on an early stage of evolution? Even less.

If you can, without any assumptions and with definite evidence proove to me that this scenario is highly unlikely, do so.

Blantly disrespecting a character that someone is debating you with is immaturity regardless, there was no comment of it being a joke as well. I could very well go on about Kuja is a queery-eyed hobo who wears a disgusting thong because he can't seem to understand attire to well.

Oh gee, and here I thought the bad grammar, spelling, "amirite" in the end and the smilie would be enough for a normal person to realise it was a joke. Guess I was wrong, eh?

And I don't care, you can say all you want about Kuja. As long as it's a joke and not an attack to his character or fanbase, nobody should have a problem with it.

Yeah, and umm, this proves what? Oh, wait, nothing because it was a failure in itself. The fact of the matter is, Necron or Meteor, would have been catastrophic period. You argue as if it was "better" to have a meteor situation would've been a more reasonable thing. Which is completely outrageous, considering the one that was the size in FFVII was the size of a metropaliton city would've cleaned out 90% of all life within the impact. Everything after would've been completely annihilated by Sephiroth when he became a God and creates his New World and a brand new race to inherit it.

Yes, it would have been better, from a neutral point of view. I don't care if a whole planet would have died, the universe is big enough that the death of a planet, hell, even the death of AN ENTIRE GALAXY means nothing. Things such as the Hubble Ultra Deep Field picture are proof of that. Yes, I know that VII's universe isn't the same as our own, but if you are to assume it isn't, then you say that you know nothing about what exists outside of VII's planet and cannot make any possible scenario.

That's a poor excuse for saying it was just a plot device. The fact is, Zidane and the ganged, defeated Necron. It wasn't that Necron was defeated from an uknown source or whatever, but beaten down by the hands of mortals.

It's called "artistic license". Necron was still more powerful than anything else, he could destroy all life. He was only defeated for the classic "good guys win" ending. Sephiroth was given the excuse that was holding back (if he wasn't, explain him being the most powerful being in VII's universe). Necron, if it weren't for the ending, would have killed everyone before you could blink. He has the damn power to end all life and return it to zero, normally Zidane and Co. never stood a chance; his defeat was plot-driven and nothing else. In that regard, the situation was also outside mortal hands. But, the plot always prevails, and that's simply undeniable.

This is the poorest excuse ever, to claim now. So now are you saying FF IX is "better" then FF VII because the "universe" hung in the balance because of a planet? Lol, this is the worst and most childish reason to make a claim that "insert game" is better than "insert game", because instead of the world, it's the universe. So maybe I should rank Dragon Ball Z Buu Saga is the best plot scenario of all time, because Buu himself was going to destroy not just the living world of the Universe, but even the After-Life itself.

See how absurd that sounds? Btw, I consider Final Fantasy Tactics having the best, and extremely dangerous scenario, and there was No Planet on the Line, or No Universe on the Line. Just a portion of a land, Universe hanging in the balance does not mean = better plot driven.

In your case, though, the only way a plot has any validation is if the "Universe hangs in the balance".

I said what I said as counter to your "Meteor was worse than Necron" arguement, and I have, I believe, succeeded. NEVER ONCE did I say that more danger means better plot. YOU on the other hand, tried to arguement that, because of the danger he put the planet to, Sephiroth was a better villain than Kuja because Meteor had to be stopped via a deus ex machina (nevermind the fact that Necron was stopped the same way) and the party couldn't do it. So I took it to YOUR terms. If you are saying that I sugested something like that, then you are being hypocritical due to your initial arguement.

Sephiroth has shown his persona throughout everything that he's done. He's manipulative, he's intelligent, he doesn't always utilize force, but infact uses other's by means of manipulation or sheer control through will to achieve his goals. Yet, he still lives, can Kuja say this? Well? Can he ever threaten the world again? Surprisingly...Sephiroth can still do this.

1. This only makes Sephiroth a cashcow.
2. Kuja turned good in the end, he wouldn't threaten the world even if he could.
3. Could Kuja's death have something to do with him DESTROYING THE SOURCE OF ALL LIFE, then being kicked out by an alternate dimention and then FALLING SEVERAL THOUSAND FEET INTO A LIVING TREE THAT WENT TO A RAMPAGE when Necron was defeated? Oh, and maybe using his last bit of power to teleport 8 people back from ANOTHER ALTERNATE DIMENTION? I would guess one of these has to be it...

Your next post better have something that doesn't involve "planet hopping" or "taking over another civilization" because those hold no water, since there is nothing from the FFVII storyline to prove these statements on any lvl.

This time I went a step further, to caps. But if you don't understand what I am saying (which seems to me to be the case) then please ask for clarification instead of repeating yourself. I cannot proove my statements, but if you want evidence, then you shouldn't blindly assume things yourself. In the "new world" arguement, if you were to present evidence, you'd have no likely scenarios of what Sephiroth would do had he succeeded. You couldn't say that he would create a new world, because he'd lack the basics for it. And that is, a planet with life (since nothing seems to suggest he could create life by himself). Until he found that, he would be planet hopping. See the logic?

 

[Yellow Opera]

Thank God somebody (and it seems like quite a few) agrees with me.

Although I didn't see Kuja's thing with Garnet, though...

If anything, he's a paedo in the way he treated Eiko, but nobody's going to complain if Eiko gets hurt.

He might look a bit gay (he wears a thong, dang it!), but I'm okay with that.
_________

Did killing Sephy end the game, or did you have a standard Final Fantasy: 'Who the Hell are You?' ending? I don't remember.
I hate those endings: you beat Kuja, then have to fight... a blue thing?

 

[TrueSephiros]

THIS, comming from a person who even personally stated, the he never completed Final Fantasy VII the game...it's no wonder you don't know about his ideals in FF VII. He specifically stated this on numerous occasions within FF VII. He has stated, that all living life within the world at the current time is not worthy of living. Thus, by destroying the world with Meteor, he would create a New World with New Life within his belief. He has said this within FF VII THE GAME. He stated this during his time within the Old Ancient Temple, he stated this to Cloud under the Nimbleheim mansion, he states this again before Cloud hands him the Black Materia...what other proof do you want? Play the game completely, before you actually say it's not true.

Not once, have I heard of him wanting to conquer another planet full of life...have you? Prove to me, show to me where you are getting this from. Because I have gone through VII just recently again to see if your claim was right...which is completely FALSE, and I even went through Advent Children...and your claim is FALSE. So where are you getting this planet hopping idea to claim a new group of life from?

However, in VII the game, he clearly states he wants to wound the planet to consume the Lifestream, become a God and create a new world on the planet. However in AC, he changes his plans by taking the planet as a vessel and creating a new world somewhere else. Not once, not anywhere, does he say he is "going to conquer" a new civilization.

So, please explain where you are getting your planet hopping idea from, since it's not within VII or AC of him indicating this at all.

I will be waiting for this.

So in part, your saying that Necron, not really Kuja is the all poweful antagonist within IX then? So how does that make Kuja look like then. Also, you failed, the fact of matter is this, Ultimecia has the ability to control time and what not, yet she was defeated by a handful of mortals. We have seen this in numerous occassions throughout human lore and history.

Zidane and them did defeated Necron, you seemingly failed to remember, that after Necron's defeat, he specifically stated, that if another like Kuja who shares similar ideals, Necron would thus return again. So case and point, Necron can actually be defeated by mere mortals. It was not just a plot-device, it actually happened and occured.

We wouldn't be in a debate over "who's got a deadlier gun"...however I wasn't the one who claimed that Kuja was uber cooler because he pressed the "Panic Button". Because using that as an argument to your statement of making Kuja better is an auto-fail.

Also, btw, a planet, or the Universe, if there is life anywhere, it would be horrible on any notion. The fact of the matter is, Necron is not even the main antagonist of IX quite makes him invalid. To me, I view Necron as like one of those super powerful elite beings in the Marvel universe, who can destroy all life/Universe 1000x over, but have no real plot or storyline device to prove themselves other then that...yet surprisingly...they can get themselves handed in by mere mortals.

Meaning there is a higher power even beyond them, that is helping the mortals.

The fact that you had to resort to Necron to prove Kuja's point makes Kuja look more like the cash cow. Because remember, my notion of "power isn't the true source to what makes an antagonist". Yet why the "panic button" statment then? You tell me who's trying to prove their point by saying "well this is more catastrophic therefore it -'s more dangerous".

This is you trying to make a claim to bring your statement as to saying that this makes Kuja a better antagonist...yet surprisingly this wouldn't of helped Kuja in anyway, since he to would've been wiped from existence.

You have yet to prove to me that Sephiroth was trying to planet hop. You failed to realize that Zidane and the gang did defeat Necron, regardless of how powerful or some entity that he maybe. The mere fact that he can be defeated and only returned by someone with intentions like Kuja is more then enough reason for anyone to make a statement that he can defeated.

A plot device, yes, but what storyline doesn't have plot-devices such as these anyhow? If this was the point, than nobody within the VIII storyline would've been able to have defeated Ultimecia.

With that case and point, I'll be looking forward from you again.

Kuja reached his absolute peak, and died for his actions, never to return. Sephiroth has the time in the world to achieve his goals.

My statement still rings true, that Kuja could be defeated at his highest point, while Sephiroth could not, which is why he had to be defeated before hand.

You make it sound like as though I am pushing Kuja down the barrel, which in fact I regard him as my top 3 antagonist of all time.

 

[Rockman X]

If anything, he's a paedo in the way he treated Eiko, but nobody's going to complain if Eiko gets hurt.
_________

Did killing Sephy end the game, or did you have a standard Final Fantasy: 'Who the Hell are You?' ending? I don't remember.
I hate those endings: you beat Kuja, then have to fight... a blue thing?

What the HELL are you talking about? He was a pedo in the way he treated Eiko? That statement is more absurd than saying Sephiroth was Cloud's lover. And if you'd actually payed attention to the storyline, you would have been able to figure out where Necron came from.

THIS, comming from a person who even personally stated, the he never completed Final Fantasy VII the game...it's no wonder you don't know about his ideals in FF VII. He specifically stated this on numerous occasions within FF VII. He has stated, that all living life within the world at the current time is not worthy of living. Thus, by destroying the world with Meteor, he would create a New World with New Life within his belief. He has said this within FF VII THE GAME. He stated this during his time within the Old Ancient Temple, he stated this to Cloud under the Nimbleheim mansion, he states this again before Cloud hands him the Black Materia...what other proof do you want? Play the game completely, before you actually say it's not true.

Christ on a stick, you're still raping my topic? O_O Talk about being a die-hard fanboy... Anyway, I won't save YF-23's ass (because I doubt he needs it) but I think you're missing one of his questions: just WHERE in the game do we see evidence of Sephiroth's ability to CREATE life? You always go on and on about his super special awesome power, but let's follow logic: Sephiroth has JENOVA cells in him, right? JENOVA is the alien that crash landed (read: planet-hopped) on Gaia. We see no evidence of JENOVA creating life, rather, all it seems capable of is destroying life. Given that Sephiroth is still mostly human and not a pure breed of whatever JENOVA's race is, logic would dictate that he's LESS powerful than JENOVA.

And the very fact that JENOVA infected and mutated the Cetra, which led to their demise, would suggest that if anything, JENOVA's species thrives on planet hopping and destroying lifeforms. It sure as hell didn't create any new lifeforms (unless you somehow consider the JENOVA cell-infected Cetra new lifeforms).

My statement still rings true, that Kuja could be defeated at his highest point, while Sephiroth could not, which is why he had to be defeated before hand.

Sephiroth had to be defeated "before hand"? Well if memory serves me correctly, Cloud and Co. went into the Northern Crater, killed JENOVA, then fought Sephiroth, who mutated from Bizarro Sephiroth into his ultimate form, Safer Sephiroth. Upon beating the crap out of Safer Sephiroth (who, I might add, is pathetically weak for a last boss), Cloud's soul (or something of that nature) fights Sephiroth's soul (or whatever) in the Lifesteam and DEFEATS that form too. Looks to me like Sephiroth was completely and utterly pwned at his highest point.

 

[YF-23]

VR, you are following my way of logic there a bit, but you are right, I don't need any help, because I make my counter-arguements as I read the post. By the time I had finished reading I already had formed an idea of what I should say (without much thinking, to add).

THIS, comming from a person who even personally stated, the he never completed Final Fantasy VII the game...it's no wonder you don't know about his ideals in FF VII. He specifically stated this on numerous occasions within FF VII. He has stated, that all living life within the world at the current time is not worthy of living. Thus, by destroying the world with Meteor, he would create a New World with New Life within his belief. He has said this within FF VII THE GAME. He stated this during his time within the Old Ancient Temple, he stated this to Cloud under the Nimbleheim mansion, he states this again before Cloud hands him the Black Materia...what other proof do you want? Play the game completely, before you actually say it's not true.

Not once, have I heard of him wanting to conquer another planet full of life...have you? Prove to me, show to me where you are getting this from. Because I have gone through VII just recently again to see if your claim was right...which is completely FALSE, and I even went through Advent Children...and your claim is FALSE. So where are you getting this planet hopping idea to claim a new group of life from?

However, in VII the game, he clearly states he wants to wound the planet to consume the Lifestream, become a God and create a new world on the planet. However in AC, he changes his plans by taking the planet as a vessel and creating a new world somewhere else. Not once, not anywhere, does he say he is "going to conquer" a new civilization.

So, please explain where you are getting your planet hopping idea from, since it's not within VII or AC of him indicating this at all.

I will be waiting for this.

You got to me to the point where I was cursing inside, because it takes you so long to understand my logic and what I think.

I am thinking AHEAD. Not in the game, not in AC, I am thinking AFTER these, IF Sephiroth wins.

This time, I will give you an example this, hopefully, you'll get what I mean. I live on a small island. I alone have the capability to destroy anything that gets in my way, no matter how powerful or large in numbers. I have killed everyone else on the island because they were against my ideologies/I consider them unworthy of being because of what they have done to me. Now, I want to create a new world, as I see fit. But, I cannot create life. [THIS IS THE STAGE SEPHIROTH IS IN] To create my world, I only have one option. Find a new place with life, so I can start creating my new world. however, if there already is a civilization on the place I go to, there's hardly any chance they will accept what I tell them and will try to fight back. I will have to show them my power so they will understand their efforts are futile and accept me and my demands; if they don't that means they are like the people on my previous island and too not worthy of living. (btw, that's called conquering) However, if they accept me after resisting and me showing them my power, they will have only accepted me out of fear, making them nothing more than cowards, which also is against my perfect world. There is also the chance I end up on an island without any animal or plant life or capability to sustain any (or capability to become able to sustain life). Therefore, the only way I will manage to create my new world is if the island I end up on has life that is on an early stage of evolution, and I can therefore easily manipulate the life's religious and ethical beliefs, or if by sheer luck I end up on an island where due to religious reasons the people of the island were waiting for someone like me and do not camplain if I try to change their way of life (or at least show no resistance). Until I end up on a place like that, I will have to continiously travel around the world until I do find such a place (which also has a chance of not existing at all).

This example/analogy should be enough for you to understand my logic. I feel bad that you wasted an entire playthrough trying to prove me wrong through the game, when actually you didn't realise my logic was after the game.

So in part, your saying that Necron, not really Kuja is the all poweful antagonist within IX then? So how does that make Kuja look like then. Also, you failed, the fact of matter is this, Ultimecia has the ability to control time and what not, yet she was defeated by a handful of mortals. We have seen this in numerous occassions throughout human lore and history.

Yeah, Necron is the all powerful entity of IX. You hadn't realised that until now?

Also, the concept of mortals defeating impossible odds is common in literature. But that's only thanks to artistic license, or else the odds wouldn't have been impossible.

Zidane and them did defeated Necron, you seemingly failed to remember, that after Necron's defeat, he specifically stated, that if another like Kuja who shares similar ideals, Necron would thus return again. So case and point, Necron can actually be defeated by mere mortals. It was not just a plot-device, it actually happened and occured.

Nuh-uh. Necron said that he would never cease to exist as long as there is good and evil. And because good requires evil to exist and vice versa Necron is eternal. However, his defeat by mortals is only excusable if you accept the use of a plot device to give the "good guys win" ending. In Sephiroth's case, he hasn't been using his full power, he was holding back, else he wouldn't have been FFVII's most powerful entity which brings a logical fallacy, plot device or not. Necron is never stated to be the most powerful entity of the IX universe. And another thing, exactly where did you take the "mere mortals" thing from? Zidane and co. were more than mere mortals (IIRC, we are to understand that few have tranced or mastered the trance in their lifetime, not to mention that they have magic and the aid of summoned creatures that surpass mortality).

We wouldn't be in a debate over "who's got a deadlier gun"...however I wasn't the one who claimed that Kuja was uber cooler because he pressed the "Panic Button". Because using that as an argument to your statement of making Kuja better is an auto-fail.

YOU said that the meteor could not be stopped by the party, therefore Sephiroth was a better villain. I just shot that arguement down, never said that it makes Kuja better. Just that you can't use Meteor to arguement that Sephiroth is better.

Also, btw, a planet, or the Universe, if there is life anywhere, it would be horrible on any notion. The fact of the matter is, Necron is not even the main antagonist of IX quite makes him invalid. To me, I view Necron as like one of those super powerful elite beings in the Marvel universe, who can destroy all life/Universe 1000x over, but have no real plot or storyline device to prove themselves other then that...yet surprisingly...they can get themselves handed in by mere mortals.

Meaning there is a higher power even beyond them, that is helping the mortals.

Not at all suprisingly. The good guys always win, via the power of plot and the most overused cliche to ever exist (aka good guys win).

The fact that you had to resort to Necron to prove Kuja's point makes Kuja look more like the cash cow. Because remember, my notion of "power isn't the true source to what makes an antagonist". Yet why the "panic button" statment then? You tell me who's trying to prove their point by saying "well this is more catastrophic therefore it -'s more dangerous".

Common sense would hint that something being more catastrophic makes it more dangerous, yes...

And once again, the "panic button" statement was made to show that Kuja achieved his goal as far as his role in it allowed him. Meaning he got closer to achieving his goal than Sephiroth did (a response again to your "meteor couldn't have been stopped by the main party" arguement).

This is you trying to make a claim to bring your statement as to saying that this makes Kuja a better antagonist...yet surprisingly this wouldn't of helped Kuja in anyway, since he to would've been wiped from existence.

So what if he was wiped out of existance? His life would have ended no matter what. A person's life doesn't have much to do with the goals he sets to achieve in that life.

A plot device, yes, but what storyline doesn't have plot-devices such as these anyhow? If this was the point, than nobody within the VIII storyline would've been able to have defeated Ultimecia.

What plot device was used to bring VII's "good guys win" ending? Not "good guys save the world". I'm only concerned as far as Sephiroth is defeated.

Kuja reached his absolute peak, and died for his actions, never to return. Sephiroth has the time in the world to achieve his goals.

I doubt Sephiroth could eternally survive the passage of time (he the most powerful entity within the FFVII universe, still not an all powerful being, else he would have never died, no matter what, and all would have ended in an instant.