What do you think about there being multiple dimensions beyond the three that we exist in? Are there other dimensions that we simply cannot perceive? Should we only deal in the three-dimensional reality?
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
Other Dimensions
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What are the other two we live in? I was under the impression that there was one, but yeah...I'm not the brightest penny 
strifehart
Blue Mage
lets say you live in a 2 dimensional world. like on a piece of paper. then all of a sudden, some pokes a hole through the paper with a pencil. If you're on the paper, you can see the pencil but only as a circle or line if you're thinking POV. anyways, you wouldn't know that it was a 3D object, let alone a pencil. you'd accept it as a circle.
now switch perspective to the pencil. the pencil knows it's a pencil right? but that's if we assume that it has a 3D perspective. Lets say the pencil itself has a 2D perspect that lines up with the 2D world of the original character in our story. then the pencil sees himself as a circle as well. he has no idea that he's more that just a circle. he has no idea that he's a 3D object.
so the same type of logic that applies in this 2D to 3D situation can be extended to the 3D to 4D situation. so according to this theory, we could have 4D characteristics that we don't even know about. of course i'm not considering time as the fourth dimension mainly because it doesn't follow the same rules as spacial dimensions do.
interesting sidenote to this theory. remember when we assumed that the 2D perspective that the pencil had lined up with the 2D perspective of the original character? what if that 2D perpsective didn't line up? visually it would go like this. The 2D person on the paper would see the middle part of the pencil go through the paper. he'd see the circle that would be the center part of the pencil. now lets say the pencil pushes through another piece of paper. now the pencil is going through 2 sheets. if the perspective of the pencil is 2D and lines up with the second sheet, then although the original character sees the pencil, the pencil won't see him. in fact, the pencil is completely unaware of the first character.
now if you extend that to the 3D to 4D situation, you've got some really frightening situations. like you could argue that your watch or car or glass has consciousness on some other plane. and that although you see it, it can't see you.
sometimes it makes me feel like theories on multiple dimensions can be used to even explain paranormal occurances. but then again...they are just theories. hope i explained my thoughts well. lemme know if anything's confusing.
the first dimension is a line. so point A to point B.
the second dimension is a 2D object. so like a square or triangle.
the third dimension is a 3D object. so like a cube or a pyramid.
another interesting way to look at it is the objects in any given dimension are made up of a combination of the objects in the one before it!
i believe we live in all dimensions but our perspective is of the 3rd dimension. our brains comprehend the universe in 3 dimensional objects. that being said, we can also recognize the lower dimensions, like 2D and 1D.
now switch perspective to the pencil. the pencil knows it's a pencil right? but that's if we assume that it has a 3D perspective. Lets say the pencil itself has a 2D perspect that lines up with the 2D world of the original character in our story. then the pencil sees himself as a circle as well. he has no idea that he's more that just a circle. he has no idea that he's a 3D object.
so the same type of logic that applies in this 2D to 3D situation can be extended to the 3D to 4D situation. so according to this theory, we could have 4D characteristics that we don't even know about. of course i'm not considering time as the fourth dimension mainly because it doesn't follow the same rules as spacial dimensions do.
interesting sidenote to this theory. remember when we assumed that the 2D perspective that the pencil had lined up with the 2D perspective of the original character? what if that 2D perpsective didn't line up? visually it would go like this. The 2D person on the paper would see the middle part of the pencil go through the paper. he'd see the circle that would be the center part of the pencil. now lets say the pencil pushes through another piece of paper. now the pencil is going through 2 sheets. if the perspective of the pencil is 2D and lines up with the second sheet, then although the original character sees the pencil, the pencil won't see him. in fact, the pencil is completely unaware of the first character.
now if you extend that to the 3D to 4D situation, you've got some really frightening situations. like you could argue that your watch or car or glass has consciousness on some other plane. and that although you see it, it can't see you.
sometimes it makes me feel like theories on multiple dimensions can be used to even explain paranormal occurances. but then again...they are just theories. hope i explained my thoughts well. lemme know if anything's confusing.
What are the other two we live in? I was under the impression that there was one, but yeah...I'm not the brightest penny
the first dimension is a line. so point A to point B.
the second dimension is a 2D object. so like a square or triangle.
the third dimension is a 3D object. so like a cube or a pyramid.
another interesting way to look at it is the objects in any given dimension are made up of a combination of the objects in the one before it!
i believe we live in all dimensions but our perspective is of the 3rd dimension. our brains comprehend the universe in 3 dimensional objects. that being said, we can also recognize the lower dimensions, like 2D and 1D.
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What are the other two we live in? I was under the impression that there was one, but yeah...I'm not the brightest penny
I see what you're saying....I guess I should've been more clear what I meant. =P
When I refer to "dimensions", I'm talking about literal dimensions of measurement (length, width, etc.), not the physical dimension we occupy, if that makes sense. Again, apologies for the confusion.
And to your comments, Strife, I actually like the comparison. I was going to use a similar analogy later on, in fact. I guess I'll say it now, though.
The book Flat Land (which started all this thinking) is a story of A.Square, a two-dimensional inhabitant of a two-dimensional world. In his perspective, everything is one dimension. He views his world through different lines of varying brightness. For instance, if there is a line in front of him that is more distinct in the middle than on the outside, he is about to run into a corner of a hours or another "person". However, later on, he is removed from his world and allowed to see both dimension in its entirety.
The moral of the story is that other dimensions could exist in spite of the fact that we cannot observe them AT ALL. Sure, we can postulate all day long into our opinions, but I think that everyone should at least be receptive to the idea of a 4th, or maybe even 5th dimension.
strifehart
Blue Mage
i've read flat land and to be honest i found it to be quite droll. i mean, it had good analogies to spur good thinking, but ultimately i felt like it lacked the extra push. but still, some great analogies.
so what do you believe, ness?
so what do you believe, ness?
Oh, that's certainly true, Flat Land isn't exciting reading. But just like I said, it's meant to expand your thinking regarding other dimensions.
What do I think? Good question. For starters, I believe there is more to the earth than we can directly observe. There are some phenomenon that are beyond our complete understanding, and that's ok. As a result, I do believe there are other dimensions beyond our own.
The big question is, what are they? I think the next order dimension (4th) is one we experience, but never considered a dimension: Time.
Consider this: If you have a line, you can take a point in that line and move it down the line, from beginning to end. If you have a plane of existence, you can take a line and move it down the plane, from beginning to end. As such, I think that three-dimensional objects travel through time (at regular speed) much like a point would move along a line. We slowly move forward, even we are sitting still.
What do I think? Good question. For starters, I believe there is more to the earth than we can directly observe. There are some phenomenon that are beyond our complete understanding, and that's ok. As a result, I do believe there are other dimensions beyond our own.
The big question is, what are they? I think the next order dimension (4th) is one we experience, but never considered a dimension: Time.
Consider this: If you have a line, you can take a point in that line and move it down the line, from beginning to end. If you have a plane of existence, you can take a line and move it down the plane, from beginning to end. As such, I think that three-dimensional objects travel through time (at regular speed) much like a point would move along a line. We slowly move forward, even we are sitting still.
FF7Guru
pro gamer dude. no messin'.
Actually, we can only experience 2 and 3D. 1D cannot be seen by our eyes, because even a line has 2D. A length, and a width. We cannot see a line with no width.
However, I agree with everything else. I've never read flat land, but I have read a dictionary, and I can tell you that "droll" actually means humourous. Sorry, but I don't like misuse of words.
However, I agree with everything else. I've never read flat land, but I have read a dictionary, and I can tell you that "droll" actually means humourous. Sorry, but I don't like misuse of words.
But by your same logic, then everything has a height. Which means everything that we see can only be in the 3rd dimension. We know what the first and second dimensions are, but they are abstract enough that they are topics of discussion in mathematics.
However, a surface area is "2-Dimensional", a distance is 1-Dimensional, and we talk about these things all the time.
However, a surface area is "2-Dimensional", a distance is 1-Dimensional, and we talk about these things all the time.
You've read a dictionary? I don't know about you, but I use dictionaries for reference. And God forbid someone use a word for one of its accepted meaning (in this case, dry), not the dictionary definition. =\
And I would echo what Karl had to say. I speak of dimension in abstraction, because we cannot see a true one- or two-dimensional object. There are many things in science we cannot fully observe, but accept as very strong theories in the very least (if not fact).
FF7Guru
pro gamer dude. no messin'.
OK. Abstract is good, just please say so next time, K?
Anyway, I've read everything in my house, and the dictionary was my only un-read book. I've even read 3 year old mobile phone manuals. So I know more words than I should.
Back to dimensions.
Do we even know if these 4 dimensions (time included) are the original 4? I think that there are plenty more dimensions. We merely cannot comprehend them with our senses. Senses because it isn't your eyes that see, it's your brain. The blind can read, and the dumb can speak. Why can't the race of humans comprehend time? Because we haven't evolved enough, in terms of biological build up and technological mastery. We'll eventually find a way.
Does anyone know what a singularity is? It's a point with no dimensions, not even time. Very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, small. Too small for us to comprehend. Maybe we can discover more dimensions, but meanwhile, let's worry about the ones we've got.
Anyway, I've read everything in my house, and the dictionary was my only un-read book. I've even read 3 year old mobile phone manuals. So I know more words than I should.
Back to dimensions.
Do we even know if these 4 dimensions (time included) are the original 4? I think that there are plenty more dimensions. We merely cannot comprehend them with our senses. Senses because it isn't your eyes that see, it's your brain. The blind can read, and the dumb can speak. Why can't the race of humans comprehend time? Because we haven't evolved enough, in terms of biological build up and technological mastery. We'll eventually find a way.
Does anyone know what a singularity is? It's a point with no dimensions, not even time. Very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, small. Too small for us to comprehend. Maybe we can discover more dimensions, but meanwhile, let's worry about the ones we've got.
Well, we are talking about other dimensions here, I assumed just about everything is abstract and subjective. This is especially the case since there are no concrete rules regarding anything beyond the third dimension. But whatever.
In reference to your thoughts on other dimensions, I'm certainly not opposed to more than four. I'm only saying that time would be the next logical progression in the dimensional hierarchy, so depending on your views on what time is. It's all just a theory and a belief, I'm certainly not claiming as scientific mantra.
Besides, what does this talk of the blind and dumb have to do with other dimensions? All those statements show is that impaired can see beyond their impairments, like normal people.
And the same with your mention of a singularity. Since it has no dimensions, what part does it have in a discussion about a quality it doesn't have?
In reference to your thoughts on other dimensions, I'm certainly not opposed to more than four. I'm only saying that time would be the next logical progression in the dimensional hierarchy, so depending on your views on what time is. It's all just a theory and a belief, I'm certainly not claiming as scientific mantra.
Besides, what does this talk of the blind and dumb have to do with other dimensions? All those statements show is that impaired can see beyond their impairments, like normal people.
And the same with your mention of a singularity. Since it has no dimensions, what part does it have in a discussion about a quality it doesn't have?
FF7Guru
pro gamer dude. no messin'.
Because it shows that there are still many things in our current dimensions that we still don't know about, and so I believe that we should all concentrate on our 3D world before continuing onto others.
The reference to the deaf and dumb was followed by a statement that makes it relevant. We are impaired in our search for more dimensions, and we will have to find more ways of discovering other ones, just like the blind being able to see by a new technology. We'll need to use our brains to find more dimensions.
The reference to the deaf and dumb was followed by a statement that makes it relevant. We are impaired in our search for more dimensions, and we will have to find more ways of discovering other ones, just like the blind being able to see by a new technology. We'll need to use our brains to find more dimensions.
strifehart
Blue Mage
the secondary meaning of droll is mean labor or toiling. accepted definition though not widely used.
as far as time goes, it's fundamentally different from the spacial dimensions. all spacial dimensions can be bent. that is, we as beings within those dimensions can compress things and change their orientation. i put my hand out in front of me then quickly move it to the side. i can put it back in front of me with relative ease.
time is different. if you consider time as a plane. we all travel upon it. as we move forward at the pace we do, we end up on a different spot on the plane. there's no way to go back to a previous spot or move quicker or slower on the plane. the position and pace of an object on the plane is set. this is greatly different when compared to space.
that's why i dislike to consider time a 'dimension'. but i definitely see where you're coming from. it's definitely a popular theory that time is the 4th dimension. perhaps beings who do comprehend the 4th the way we comprehend the 3rd can bend it. maybe they can move through time the way we move through space.
as far as time goes, it's fundamentally different from the spacial dimensions. all spacial dimensions can be bent. that is, we as beings within those dimensions can compress things and change their orientation. i put my hand out in front of me then quickly move it to the side. i can put it back in front of me with relative ease.
time is different. if you consider time as a plane. we all travel upon it. as we move forward at the pace we do, we end up on a different spot on the plane. there's no way to go back to a previous spot or move quicker or slower on the plane. the position and pace of an object on the plane is set. this is greatly different when compared to space.
that's why i dislike to consider time a 'dimension'. but i definitely see where you're coming from. it's definitely a popular theory that time is the 4th dimension. perhaps beings who do comprehend the 4th the way we comprehend the 3rd can bend it. maybe they can move through time the way we move through space.
Well, think of it this way. On your 2-D flat computer screen, you can only see 3-D objects from one side. Just because a cube has six sides that you cannot see from one angle doesn't mean the other sides don't exist. If you take other 2-D angle views of the cube, you can see them all. If you could see all the sides of a 4-D object, you just can't see them all at once. Visualizing a cube, however, is relatively easy. Visualizing other dimensions that aren't readily apparent in everyday life or not interpreted as such isn't.
Saying the 4th dimension exists is akin to saying the number "1" exists--can you find a "1" anywhere in real life? You can find ways of representing "1" as in one object, but the number itself is completely abstract--beyond the physical realm, we can only say that the 4th-dimension has only an abstract existence. That is, until it can be evidenced.
However, despite the limitations of our own brains in visualizing higher dimensions, mathematicians have been able to provide theorems that predict and define the properties of higher dimensions. Some that even apply to dimensions that might not even exist.
Saying the 4th dimension exists is akin to saying the number "1" exists--can you find a "1" anywhere in real life? You can find ways of representing "1" as in one object, but the number itself is completely abstract--beyond the physical realm, we can only say that the 4th-dimension has only an abstract existence. That is, until it can be evidenced.
However, despite the limitations of our own brains in visualizing higher dimensions, mathematicians have been able to provide theorems that predict and define the properties of higher dimensions. Some that even apply to dimensions that might not even exist.
That's the reason I used Flat Land as an analogy. Inhabitants of Flat Land lived in what they believed to be a two-dimensional world, and could only perceive varying gradients of lines (one-dimension). By this, if anyone from Flat Land was ever shown even a bird's-eye view of their own world, they might not even recognize it. However, they can probably visualize two-dimensions, so this isn't too big of a problem for them.
Compound the problem if you were to show them a cube. They never even imagined there were other dimensions beyond the two that they knew for their entire existence. Now, stretch this logic to our own existence as three-dimensional beings. What is the possibility that there are other dimensions that we cannot perceive, or even have any idea HOW to perceive? I'd say quite high.
What separates us from the inhabitants of Flat Land is our ability to postulate about these dimensions. Indeed using mathematics, we can come up with pretty good, possibly even correct, theories regarding higher-order dimensions. Sure, they can't be measured with empirical science, but there are plenty of other "truths" that cannot be directly observed.
Compound the problem if you were to show them a cube. They never even imagined there were other dimensions beyond the two that they knew for their entire existence. Now, stretch this logic to our own existence as three-dimensional beings. What is the possibility that there are other dimensions that we cannot perceive, or even have any idea HOW to perceive? I'd say quite high.
What separates us from the inhabitants of Flat Land is our ability to postulate about these dimensions. Indeed using mathematics, we can come up with pretty good, possibly even correct, theories regarding higher-order dimensions. Sure, they can't be measured with empirical science, but there are plenty of other "truths" that cannot be directly observed.