Human Nature

[Finnegan III]

I figured Philosophical debates also would fall in religion somewhere.

Simone de Beauvoir and Jean Paul Sartre believed that there was no such thing as Human Nature as we describe it.

So saying that a need for a leader is human nature, is a load of shite.
Saying that people are greedy because of human nature is also a load of shite.

I think they've got a point there, if there was human nature and a desire to be ruled over, why do the rulers not need someone to rule over them, and why in Ireland from 500-600AD to 1600AD were they an Anarchist Society without ruler, and got by fine without one, without the desire to be ruled until Cromwell turned up.

If it's in our nature to be greedy, why are some people not greedy?


Discuss.

 

[Fusilli]

Philosophy makes my brain explode D:

And i know what i want to say but I have no words to explain it.

Well, it depends what would define as 'human nature', people are just brought into a world with a set of morals and specific lifestyles, not thinking about an alternative way of living, because that is how the world has evolved and people have adapted from long ago without a second thought. It's the way people are taught to be though. If you take a newborn baby, it is going to grow up with the same knowledge of the world as everybody else because they have been taught by their parents that way. But if the parents were to raise them in a completely different environment with a different outlook on life then that is what the child would grow up believing in, if that makes any sense. I don't know how relevant that is to what you were talking about but I know what i mean =P

 

[Finnegan III]

That's pretty much my point, It's not human nature, it isn't in our genes to have these things.

It's all down to the society we are brought up in, and how we are raised. Naturally, I think there are some things which are in our nature, but that's basic stuff like eating, and breeding.

 

[RioDragon]

I'm not greedy... I hate money... I get rid of it as soon as I can. xD

Seriously, though... I'm not very greedy, so I don't think greed is part of human nature, if there is such a thing as human nature... I normally use my money to help my friends, only occaisionally indulging myself.

 

[Fusilli]

I blame the media for a lot of these traits in humans. I blame the media for a lot of things actually.. but it's all true.

Mind you, back in the days before television and newspapers and advertising etc.(I really don't know how far back I am going here, where there ever such days??) they probably still had sets of morals, so we can't blame the media for everything unfortunately...

It's all to do with the way we are raised and taught I suppose and this cosy little niche we have got ourselves into since the dawn of man (or the dawn of the media), and are too afraid to get out of. And some people are just plain evil and greedy and are too wrapped up in exploiting the poor and killing Iraqis to give a toss about the state of humanity. Unfortunately for us, these just so happen to be the people who are controlling our countries and our lifestyles ¬_¬

 

[Finnegan III]

I blame the media for a lot of these traits in humans. I blame the media for a lot of things actually.. but it's all true.

Mind you, back in the days before television and newspapers and advertising etc.(I really don't know how far back I am going here, where there ever such days??) they probably still had sets of morals, so we can't blame the media for everything unfortunately...

It's all to do with the way we are raised and taught I suppose and this cosy little niche we have got ourselves into since the dawn of man (or the dawn of the media), and are too afraid to get out of. And some people are just plain evil and greedy and are too wrapped up in exploiting the poor and killing Iraqis to give a toss about the state of humanity. Unfortunately for us, these just so happen to be the people who are controlling our countries and our lifestyles ¬_¬

The Media is a convienient scapegoat for our problems, even if it may be true in some cases.

I believe we have free will, which means we decide our actions, so if we decide to let the media influence our decisions because we're too dull-witted or weak willed to do it ourselves, it's our fault. Not the medias.

 

[AngofWolf]

And some people are just plain evil and greedy and are too wrapped up in exploiting the poor and killing Iraqis to give a toss about the state of humanity. Unfortunately for us, these just so happen to be the people who are controlling our countries and our lifestyles ¬_¬

To be honest I feel this opinion is media induced. I don't watch TV and I generally recieve information on these things from fairly unbiased sources and I have a completely different standpoint. So I feel Media and that which surrounds us has a huge effect not only on how we react but how we interpret things.

As far as Human Nature itself goes, it definately exists. The thing is Human Nature is, in my interpretation, not always specific. The Human Nature of Americans could be, and probably is, completely different than the Human Nature of people in India.

This is why people can live without a ruler yet, at times, need them. Not so that someone can order them around, but because without one they are lost and/or because of the problem of crime. With no leader and order it is hard to determine how to punish and reward people for things they do.

On the topic of greed, my explaination is simple. Each person seeks something in their lives. Often one such thing is money or items. Other times it is attention, love, glory, power, really anything you can think of. In our struggle to achieve that which we want, even if it is to help others, we are greedy. For we do what we do to make ourselves feel fulfilled.

 

[Fusilli]

The Media is a convienient scapegoat for our problems, even if it may be true in some cases.

I believe we have free will, which means we decide our actions, so if we decide to let the media influence our decisions because we're too dull-witted or weak willed to do it ourselves, it's our fault. Not the medias.

But if the media wasn't there to influence our decisions in the first place then we wouldn't be inclined to follow them, as they wouldn't be there.

Although there would be some other obstacle lying in our way of free will trying to brainwash us, because that is how life is.

The most it can do is influence us though, we have the choice of decision, and it is very true that people are too weak willed to think otherwise, or maybe they just don't care..

 

[Finnegan III]

But if the media wasn't there to influence our decisions in the first place then we wouldn't be inclined to follow them, as they wouldn't be there.

Although there would be some other obstacle lying in our way of free will trying to brainwash us, because that is how life is.

The most it can do is influence us though, we have the choice of decision, and it is very true that people are too weak willed to think otherwise, or maybe they just don't care..

The Media (Newspapers, Television, Music, Video Games) has been around long before people decided they were being influenced by it all.

You have to be a bit more specific there I'm afraid.

 

[Howl]

If it's in our nature to be greedy, why are some people not greedy?


Discuss.

Alpha vs. Omega
I think this plays a large roll in why some people desire more than others. Some people are outgoing and selfish, and others are submissive and reliant upon others.

I'm sure some people would object to comparing men to animals, but that's what we are.

The only difference (I think) between alpha/omega men vs. alpha/omega animals is that people are highly influential.
Such as why some people state that they are "born Christian" and etc etc. Someone who makes a statement like that, I would define as an omega; not being able to think for themselves, and relying on others to program their lives for them.

Some people need to be lead through life.

 

[OmniscientOnus]

It's simple. We are all born with certain instincts. Other than that, we learn our behavior.

Instincts would include, but are not necessarily limited to: Eating, breathing, feeling pleasure and mating. These instincts are something we are born with. They are what keeps us alive. They are part of a survival trait we all have (unless of course you were born with them deformed, which is where Sigmund Freud kinda stepped in and opened his mouth), given to us by God or nature, take your pick.

Most other traits that we assume are learned behavior in order to help facilitate our basic instincts. Greed, for instance, could have spawned from the need to eat. In fear of not having food available, man may have began to horde their food, which lead to the hording of other objects. When goods and services began to be traded, we began to horde goods in order to sell to obtain food. It may not be a conscious decision, but a learned trait eventually grows out of control until it leads to say, hording useless objects (i.e. anything that fails to increase our chances of fulfilling our instinctual needs).

Gluttony also spawns from a fear of not eating.
Lust spawns from both a fear of not mating, and a fear of mating.

And so on and so forth.

 

[eisprinz]

Sartre and Beauvoir are fascinating - as is existentialism in general.

Anyway, it's not that some people aren't greedy; rather they have been conditioned by societal pressures not to be as ambitious.

Just because you think people don't like to be ruled over or that people aren't necessarily greedy doesn't mean that human nature is non-existent. It can mean that to you, human nature doesn't include these things but exists in another capacity.

What Sartre and Beauvoir meant is that human nature in any capacity doesn't exist. Which means that if everybody grew up in separate social vacuums, then we would all end up with completely different social behavior.

I do think people are "greedy" with the simple fact that consciousness will try to preserve itself in any way. Even people who commit suicide are essentially protecting themselves, because although the body dies, there is the belief that rest will come in death. Martyrdom comes with self-satisfaction that something will be protected in one's sake. However Sartre and Beauvoir might say that this commonality has nothing to do with something innate to humans, but rather is a social construct which programs us to think this way.

 

[Fusilli]

The Media (Newspapers, Television, Music, Video Games) has been around long before people decided they were being influenced by it all.

You have to be a bit more specific there I'm afraid.

I'm just saying that its one of the reasons, and it's not all bad anyways. Just one of the things that really irritates me for reasons which i can't seem to string together, but they exist

 

[Finnegan III]

Sartre and Beauvoir are fascinating - as is existentialism in general.

Anyway, it's not that some people aren't greedy; rather they have been conditioned by societal pressures not to be as ambitious.

Just because you think people don't like to be ruled over or that people aren't necessarily greedy doesn't mean that human nature is non-existent. It can mean that to you, human nature doesn't include these things but exists in another capacity.

What Sartre and Beauvoir meant is that human nature in any capacity doesn't exist. Which means that if everybody grew up in separate social vacuums, then we would all end up with completely different social behavior.

I do think people are "greedy" with the simple fact that consciousness will try to preserve itself in any way. Even people who commit suicide are essentially protecting themselves, because although the body dies, there is the belief that rest will come in death. Martyrdom comes with self-satisfaction that something will be protected in one's sake. However Sartre and Beauvoir might say that this commonality has nothing to do with something innate to humans, but rather is a social construct which programs us to think this way.

I'm yet to look at Existentialism & Humanism in any great detail just yet, I just decided to have a bit of a brief look at it, as it intrigued me, so I probably don't understand it entirely just yet.