FFVII: LTD Debate Thread

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Dragon Mage said:
I must read that some time. I'm afraid I gave up reading those things not a quarter of the way through the 'denzel' story. OMG, spare me the agony of having to read that again....
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You should - simply because I think its often misinterpreted by factions looking for one line answers. Aeris says she loves Cloud's romantically in the first few paragraphs, ergo, Aeris' love in AC towards Cloud is romantic. Not true. The whole drive of Maiden is to show how Aeris, romantically smitten in FF7 could change to the more maternal protective power she is in Advent Children; it shows how she grows and comes to comprehend the truth about Cloud (that we see in FF7 after she dies) and how she starts to realise that her feelings for Cloud were made up of her residual feelings for Zack, given he was effectively role playing Zack. She learns to appreciate Cloud for who he truly is but understands his destiny is with Tifa, something she blesses, which leads her into the distant guardian she is in Advent Children. It also shows Zack appearing to her and her initial reproach to him (bear in mind this was obviously written before Crisis Core). He stands patiently for her to come to terms with what Maiden has told the audience; that Aeris' ideas of who Cloud is, are essentially confused nuances that she carries for Zack. While Maiden doesn't end with Aeris coming to terms with her past, Zack is waiting patiently for her to sort through her confusion.

This is actually a very pro CloudxTifa piece (as The Compilation is), but the fact that ALL the commpendiums ignore it and the fact it wasn't written by any of the official team, does make its relevance a little dubious. It makes a nice filler to show Aeris' progression, but really doesn't tell us anything we couldn't have worked out ourselves given our understanding of Aeris and the events of FF/AC. The biggest problem for me is the fact it doesn't really follow through with the heavy romantic overtones of Crisis Core makes it a poor resolution to their fairy tale romance, and I suspect that's why the Compilation has since ignored this little prologue.

Crisis Core finds a better resolution in AC than Maiden - I think ignoring Maiden's concept of Aeris' being all huffy with Zack, the guy she wears pink in memory and hope for, makes AC's reunion of Aeris and Zack a lot more satisfying. We don't get to know how they interact, just simply they are together there, and I think that makes for a far more satisfying end to the romance of Crisis Core - an unspoken reunion which the audience can fill the gaps in!

Tuthfully, this is just my opinon, the term 'slut' has no basis in this game/argument whatsoever, and should therefor be promptly abandoned. If Cloud and Tifa (or Cloud and Aeris, take yer pick) kissed once in the course of the game (which I believe to be the extent of sexual intent in that particular scene) does not immediately render either girl a 'slut'. It is an improper use of the term, and was used only because of highly biased and offended fanboys. Thus, it's use should be discontinued.
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I agree wholeheartedly.


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it depends on how you play the game.


If you are rude to Tifa, but nice to Aerith, you get Aerith.
Rude to Aerith, get Tifa.
And so on.
 
Thank you, for stating the blatantly obvious. We are all indebted to you.


(Thank you ChocoBongo. I shall read Maiden when I get the chance.)
 
I'd say that, Cloud reminded Aerith of Zack, (Who at the point when this happens, Zack is gone and she misses him,) so she somehow felt that connection to him, but at the end of AC, she actually meets with Zack at the end and they are like together. (At least, that's what I think.)

With Tifa, I'd say, that after Aerith dies, Cloud and Tifa get a lot closer, especially when they are in the lifestream together, and most definately the scene at the very end of disc 2, where they are on the Highwind alone together, after Cloud sends everybody off to find out what they were fighting for.

So to sum up my opininon, on the first disc, before Sephiroth kills Aerith, Cloud would be with Aerith, but afterwards, he starts bonding a lot more with Tifa.
 
Indeed, this progressionism you've stated, Zaiku, has been observed before. The general idea was that a theme of FF7 was 'moving on' if you will. Cloud likes Aerith, she dies, he moves on with life. In fact, this melds very well with the overarching theme of the game itself: Life. One cannot live while hung up on the past.
 
Oh, my bad, to be honest, I didn't read ALL of the posts, I may have missed that one.
 
Clouds Tifas and Aeris's relationship

As you know Cloud, at the beginning of the story, is mentally confused from being experimented on by Hojo. And Aeris still suffers emotional pains from losing Zack 5 years earlier and Tifa still, and always has, loves Cloud. But my question is do Cloud and Aeris love each other? Cloud, at first, began his path to become a soldier because he felt at fault for being unable to protect someone he cared about, Tifa. Yet as he lost his memory and forgot why he even wanted to become a SOLDIER, did those feelings go away? Because it seemed like it did when he met Aeris. Now did Aeris really like Cloud for who he was? Because only Tifa really knew Cloud. I believe that Aeris was in love (maybe not love who knows?) with the idea of Cloud because he was so similar to Zack who also fell on her flowerbed wearing the same uniform, carrying the same sword, and both who state are in SOLDIER. Get the idea? Now how does Cloud feel about Aeris? Its very hard to say. When I first played the game, I thought, after beating the game, that Cloud had fallen for Aeris and was trying avenge her. But it was guilt. Advent Children made this very clear. The reason he was always thinking of her was because of his guilt, not love. Cloud's guilt also hinders upon his and Tifa's relationship as we see in the movie. I just want to know if you agree or disagree and if so why?
 
I think Cloud did love Aeris and vice versa - I think maybe originally Aeris was drawn to him because of Zack and the similarities but in the end it was he who she loved (Maiden kinda proves this aswel *ty to moonchild for that one*)

Feelings fade over time and also because of all the experiments that were done on him, Cloud just no longer felt that way for Tifa & Tifa didn't actually have any romantic feelings for Cloud until he actually left Nibelheim anyway & I wouldn't say she knew him that well as he was the outcast of the group really.

I also expect that Aeris' feelings for Zack also faded over time - seeing Cloud probably stirred them a little but in the end I think it was HIM she fell for as tbh, personality wise Zack and Cloud weren't really alike. Sure there gestures were similar & the clothing etc but Zack was way more extraverted

*im having dejavu here with this post:confused:*
 
Bono said:
*im having dejavu here with this post:confused:*
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That's because we already have a similar thread: http://www.finalfantasyforums.net/final-fantasy-vii/ffvii-ltd-debate-thread-13208.html

;)

But anyway, it all depends on one's opinions. I do believe that Cloud did love Aerith, however. So I think it was really a combination of both: love and guilt.

Gosh, I've posted my views so many times regarding this matter that it's hard to keep up sometimes. Anyway, I might add more later.
 
Oh no. This thread is just asking for trouble.

Okay, I'll say what I have to say and be done with it.

Yeah, I think Cloud loved Tifa. Not to say he didn't have any feelings for Aerith: Far from it. But, like you've said DP, his 'mindwipe' (so to speak) did make him nearly entirely forget his feelings for Tifa. It was all rather vague to him. So, naturally he, being a guy, would get the hots for some hot chick he randomly happened to fall on. :monster:

Later however after
Aerith dies
Cloud seems to turn back towards Tifa more, as this is the time when he gets his memory/past back. It appears as though he's regained his feelings towards Tifa. It's quite clear this distinct 'moving on' thing, but we all know that it's not as simple as that.

In any case, I could go on and give many examples and cases to prove why I think Clifa is the valid pairing, but I don't want to be the one to launch this into a full-blown debate just yet. (that's for another thread)

Anywho, that's my two cents.

~The Dragon Hath Spoken
 
DR.PORN XD

You're thread has been merged with the FFVII: Love Triangle thread.
 
That's what this thread is for. Just a small reminder, that you are allowed to debate the pairing here. We do not need multiple threads for this particular subject (ridiculous as it may get...) So please keep your discussion in regarding the LT and your debates in this particular thread. Thank you!
 
I like to stick to the fact that Aerith and Zack were the one's who were meant for each other when it comes to Aerith's love life. I mean sure, Zack met an ultimate end which abruptly halted their relationship, but it sort of reminds me of the FFX story of Chapuu and Lulu. When Tidus came ashore in Besaid they noticed the resemblance of Tidus and Chapuu, but Lulu did not go after Tidus because they looked similar; she didn't go after him at all. In some ways I don't think Aerith wouold want to get romantically involved with Cloud because she herself needs to get over the fact that no one will ever be "Zack". Aerith plays more of the sacrificial role in this game as opposed to the love interest.

Tifa is more of the long-time childhood friend who lived across the street, you played in the snow with, came over and played monopoly with your family on weekend nights, etc. She's like Cloud's adoptive sister, or vice versa. Cloud's mroe of a loner in the game than given credit for. Not every game has to be hooking someone up even though it's human nature. We all want to picture ourselves as the hero or heroine in the game and our desire is for a romantic merge where the main male and female "make it through together".

I went through this game after having played FFX and FFIX which both contained high hints of romanticism, sexual tentsion, and affection between main characters, but I didn't feel that at all when I played Final Fantasy VII through.

Oh well, everyone's opinions are different.
 
Again, I'll stick with the fact that it's all up to you to decide.

But Tifa totally has the hots for Cloud. :P Why do I say this? No reason. :P

In other news today, a woodchuck farted in the Middle East, driving up gas prices once again....
 
I honestly think Aerith just feel in "love" with cloud cuz it reminded her so much of zack. But cloud had feelings for tifa ever since they were kids( so thats what i thought when i played the game)
I think tifa n cloud belong together, not cuz im a Team Tifa member but beacause i think its how it was meant to be
Aerith died and was reunited with her love

both girls win... in some way
 
My thoughts:

I believe that Aerith never loved Cloud but he just reminded her of Zack, the man she DID love.

Zack of course loved Aerith, but then he died protecting Cloud.

Tifa loves Cloud, but never tells him for the sake of their friendship (although I thought they might have come closer during the movie time line).

Cloud felt attraction towards Aerith (I'll concede that, although it might be because he mimicks Zack's feelings for Aerith) however, he has a feeling of reverence towards her after she dies, a type of love for your guardian (he called her "mother" in the movie).

I think Cloud had a crush on Tifa when they were kids, but that went away eventually (LOL, he got into Shin-Ra and saw so many hot dudes he forgot about women :P).

But seriously, Aerith and Zack seem like the obvious pairing, especially since their both dead now. If Zack was still alive, those two would be together before Aerith died, or something.

I would like to hope that Tifa and Cloud would get together. They have potential, but it's all on Cloud to pursue Tifa since she's doesn't want to ruin their friendship.

As for Vincent, Lucrecia, and Hojo...

Vincent did love Lucrecia, that's obvious.

However, I doubt there was any romantic feelings between Hojo and Lucrecia.

I think Lucrecia wanted to get away from Vincent because she felt too guilty about the death of his father and ran to Hojo instead.

Hojo comes of as a little narcissistic, but it's more about the pursuit of knowledge, no matter the cost. If he loves anything, it's probably himself.

Lucrecia is hinted to love Vincent as well, but you, all that stuff happened, so it didn't work out.

I guess those are the only real three ways suggested in the game.
 
The original game left the LTD pretty ambigious.

First we have the Highwind scene with Cloud and Tifa, which looked pretty intimate. But then, after defeating Sephiroth, we see Cloud reaching happily for Aerith and then afterwards giving the line "I think I can meet her there."

Then the game ends. We do not know if humanity was wiped out by meteor or not, so who cares who Cloud loved, WTF just happened to everyone?

Then AC comes along and well, if anything it make the LTD very strange.

Cloud and Tifa are living together, sort of, Cloud leaves to live in Aerith's church. Anytime Cloud and Tifa are on screen together they behave like a couple that is on the verge of a very bad breakup, so much that I can't help but cringe anytime they are on the screen together.

And to add more awkwardness, Tifa does not even resemble her game appearance. Suddenly she had black hair... and she looks like a Rinoa cosplayer. Aerith looks the same, but dead people can't exactly change their looks.

So now it looks like Cloud in fact has a third female love interest. :O

Even though Cloud was clearly over his "emoness" by the end of FFVII, for some reason, well he's still emo. He clearly indicated that he wanted to meet Aerith in the Promised Land, so why is he just sitting around in her church sulking?

And to throw something else into the LTD, Cloud was into those Shinra containers for about five years... so in the game wouldn't that mean that Cloud has the mentality of a 16 year old? So does that make Yuffie the perfect girl for Cloud? ;)

And for the record, Aerith loves Tifa and Tifa loves Aerith. They were closet lesbians the entire game. :P
 
Okay, allow me to clear this up now before everybody starts to think it. Read Maiden of the Planet, it tells in detail how Aerith doesn't love Zack, he gets rejected by her, and Aerith sees the true Cloud, and loves him.

So, Aerith loves Cloud for Cloud, not Zack, she was in love with Zack, but isn't any longer.

That solves the Zack thing, he shouldn't even be an issue in the LTD. It's a love triangle, not a love square.

Secondly...Cloud and Tifa, childhood friends? I think not. Hello, Tifa and her little clique used to hide in her room from Cloud, clearly this is the sign of a childhood friendship. Cloud may have had a childhood crush on Tifa, but when does he show tenderness to her? He wants to protect Aerith and whatnot, yet shows a blatent disregard to Tifas feelings until she mentions the promise.

Although the game lets you choose who Cloud loves, I strongly support the Cloud/Aerith pairing, they just seem to have more chemistry than the Cloud/Tifa pairing.
 
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