Should Parents Of Extremely Obese Children Lose Custody?

[unadulteratedawesome]

I still dont understand why people have fizzy drinks. (alcohol aside)

I'm sure some people are dumb enough to think they quench your thirst (they dehydrate you), but I'd wager most just drink them because they enjoy them and they taste good. There doesn't have to be any benefit aside from enjoyment. Same goes for alcohol, so I'm not sure why you don't get it.


As far as fat kids go, I agree that parents should control their kid's diet. I'm not sure at what age they should be allowed to make their own choices. It'd differ between children, but some will never make the types of choices you want them to regarding their diet or anything else.

However, I'm not sure taking the kids away is the right answer. That sets a precedent for taking a kid away that's much lower.

If we take a kid from their parents because they're obese and that's a health risk, then we should be taking the children away from any family with a religious belief that keeps them from seeking medical attention/doctors. Or from parents who refuse to vaccinate their children. Or those who use 'folk medicine' or homeopathy to treat their children rather than actual medicine. Or people who threaten their children with the threat of damnation when they screw up, as children are wont to do. Or spanking - does it help or not? If it actually makes things worse, then what about parents who spank?

And are the psychological effects of taking a kid from their parent outweighed by the physical problems of their obesity? People talk about the psychological problems caused by divorce, but how much more fucked up is the government taking you away from your parents (when they may be perfectly great parents besides knowing shit all about diet) and putting you in a strange family and not allowing you to see them?

 

[Roland_Deschain]

I'm sure some people are dumb enough to think they quench your thirst (they dehydrate you), but I'd wager most just drink them because they enjoy them and they taste good. There doesn't have to be any benefit aside from enjoyment. Same goes for alcohol, so I'm not sure why you don't get it.


They may dehydrate you BUT, I garuntee you that if you were stranded in a dessert, you would live a long longer if you had a gallon of Soda as opposed to nothing, simply because water IS an element in cola.


As far as fat kids go, I agree that parents should control their kid's diet. I'm not sure at what age they should be allowed to make their own choices. It'd differ between children, but some will never make the types of choices you want them to regarding their diet or anything else.


This is a problem previously mentioned, that parents SHOULD do this and they SHOULD do that. The main substance of this debate is the topic of neglect and being lazy when it comes to children.

However, I'm not sure taking the kids away is the right answer. That sets a precedent for taking a kid away that's much lower.


It has been pointed out that this should only be done in the most extreme of neglect cases, and if its in that genre of case's I do not think the precedent could get much lower.

If we take a kid from their parents because they're obese and that's a health risk, then we should be taking the children away from any family with a religious belief that keeps them from seeking medical attention/doctors. Or from parents who refuse to vaccinate their children. Or those who use 'folk medicine' or homeopathy to treat their children rather than actual medicine. Or people who threaten their children with the threat of damnation when they screw up, as children are wont to do. Or spanking - does it help or not? If it actually makes things worse, then what about parents who spank?


But listen to what your saying and look at what people said already. We would not be taking them away JUST because they are obese, or because it is a health risk. We would take away the children who are "sickly" obese only because of the parents extreme neglect. And lets face it, obeisity is a much greater problem then extreme religious people not taking their kids to a doctor, in American it is anyway. I walk down the street and see enormous people eveywhere, its like an epidemic now.

And are the psychological effects of taking a kid from their parent outweighed by the physical problems of their obesity? People talk about the psychological problems caused by divorce, but how much more fucked up is the government taking you away from your parents (when they may be perfectly great parents besides knowing shit all about diet) and putting you in a strange family and not allowing you to see them?


Well there has been no statement saying that they would not be allowed to visit their children, or that there would be chances to improve to get them back, I think in such situations it would be a part of it.


Honestly IF IT WERE ME, and I grew up to weight 400 pounds, ONLY because my parents let this happen, and lived a miserable life when I could have been healthy if only I had recieved help. I would rather be seperated from my parents when I am young.


Because then when I grow up, and would understand why it had to be done and that it was for my own good, and in result I would not let my children have extreme health problems because I will be able to stand up and excercise with them. In result this action would squash a line of ill thinking along with setting an example for the future children, because if I was taken from my parents, I would make damn sure mine were not taken from me.


Instead of letting them become fat by feeding them crap everyday like its...."ok"

 

[Donald Trump]

I don't know. I'm anti-fat kids but I also don't think that it is the governments job to interfere with how people raise their children. I don't suppose many parents want their children to be fat so they're probably trying as best they can to prevent it. It also depends on the age of the children, by 12 or 13 most children understand the consequences of their diet. Fast food makes you fat and being fat is ugly, most kiddies get this. It's not as if foster care is known for being really great either, the kiddies will probably end up being cared for by Gary Glitter. I don't suppose the Harvard Pastor Doctor was seriously proposing it, merely using an over the top suggestion to create debate about the subject.

 

[Tucker]

I'm surprised so many people agree.

Yes, in the roots, it is a good idea. America is known to have too much obesity.
However, the government has no right to take away someone from the family. This can be a great idea if it only happens with parents' consent. Maybe the parents want to try things at home? Maybe the obesity is caused by something else, like stress, low metabolism?
The things is, we're targetting the wrong person here. Do you think the child is the one sneaking around, buying unhealthy food? Is completely the child's fault that he/she doesn't get enough exercise? No, it's the parents. When the children are brought back the parents could make the same mistake.

Educate the parents so they can educate their children. Isn't that what parenting is all about?

 

[Will Graham]

I'm surprised so many people agree.

Yes, in the roots, it is a good idea. America is known to have too much obesity.
However, the government has no right to take away someone from the family. This can be a great idea if it only happens with parents' consent. Maybe the parents want to try things at home? Maybe the obesity is caused by something else, like stress, low metabolism?
The things is, we're targetting the wrong person here. Do you think the child is the one sneaking around, buying unhealthy food? Is completely the child's fault that he/she doesn't get enough exercise? No, it's the parents. When the children are brought back the parents could make the same mistake.

Educate the parents so they can educate their children. Isn't that what parenting is all about?

Seriously did no one fucking read the thing, the guy heavily recommended education and counselling long before removal of the child. Also I am rather certain it's been proven metabolism = weight was disproven a while ago.

The Government has no right to remove a family's children? I assume you aren't talking about 100% of cases i.e. molestation, abuse etc. And mean only in regards to this issue

 

[Dee]

Uh...no? Chances are they're just as ignorant as their parents were. What they need to be is educated, not taken to court. I think a lot of parents who tend to have obese children and are obese themselves just do not know how to remedy the situation. They grew up that way, they were taught certain things and then they pass it onto their off spring. But if we can intervene and educate the parents on the health risks of having an obese child and being obese themselves, chances are a good number of folks will actually want to make the change.

 

[Gingerbread Lesbian]

Metabolism definitely has a say in peoples' weight although it shouldn't be used as a scapegoat. The guy emphasizes way too much on obesity anyway, being slim doesn't necessarily mean you're fit and healthy either but because a kid isn't piling on pounds and pounds of weight people presume they're healthy. You can suffer just as much from health issues if you're slim (without being anorexic) but aren't fed the necessary nutrition as you are by being obese.

If the guy goes on about counseling and possibly removing children from their parents if they're obese I don't think it's right they just single out parents of obese children.

 

[Roland_Deschain]

Listen BOTTEM LINE, there are people who are shitty and screwed up parents.

There are parents who let their kids eat nothing but crap all day everyday while they watch them turn into giant whales, and possibly do the same thing. In my personal opinion THOSE parents DO NOT deserve their children, and the children deserve something better.

Taking care of another life is one of the highest responsibilities you can obtain, and some people just do not care about their children. IT IS WRONG, and I say those parents should be stripped of the human life that they are destroying.

I would rather children be faced with mental issues from being stripped away from their parents at a young age, then to have the future generations continuing the same bullshit cycle of feeding their kids crap and letting them become whales when we could be helping them live healthy lives.

You can say what you want about "its not right," or "Its not fair, the government shouldn't take children," blah blah blah blah blah. In extreme cases I do not think there is any other way. You can eduacate the kids at school all you want, it does not stop them from going to a home only filled with shitty food where their parents are not cooking dinner but rather feeding them a bag of cheetos.

The bottem line is that so many parents do not deserve the children they have, and healthy thinking and lifestyles are contagious, just like the flu. I would rather the world attempt to cure the sickness of sick obeisity (due to eating crap) then to see the future generations following the examples their parents gave them.

In general, I am tired of excuses for shitty parents these days.


((((((If the guy goes on about counseling and possibly removing children from their parents if they're obese I don't think it's right they just single out parents of obese children. )))))

As someone else said before, since when has it ever been subject to singling out obeisity? This is a completely brand new idea in comparison with removal of children due to molestation or physical abuse.

 

[unadulteratedawesome]

Listen BOTTEM LINE, there are people who are shitty and screwed up parents.

I totally agree.

In my personal opinion THOSE parents DO NOT deserve their children, and the children deserve something better.

And there's plenty of people I don't think deserve to breed or raise children (or live, for that matter) and yet I'm not stupid enough to suggest it be placed into law. It's wise to keep any argument for taking someone's kids away in the realm of rationality, not pure opinion.

IT IS WRONG, and I say those parents should be stripped of the human life that they are destroying.

And I think that if we're doing this, we should be removing kids from the hands of anyone who is stupid enough to not vaccinate their kids or take them to a doctor. Why are you so quick to take someone's kid away if they're fat but not if they aren't preparing them against easily preventable diseases and illnesses? Or parents who risk their kid's health with false-medicine rather than, y'know, actual medicine.

I would rather children be faced with mental issues from being stripped away from their parents at a young age, then to have the future generations continuing the same bullshit cycle of feeding their kids crap and letting them become whales when we could be helping them live healthy lives.

How exactly are you weighing these consequences? Have you been obese and from a broken home? Can you really weigh the impact of those two situations on someone's life and then fall down so hard on one side of the line?

The bottem line is that so many parents do not deserve the children they have, and healthy thinking and lifestyles are contagious, just like the flu.

If healthy lifestyles and thinking were contagious, we wouldn't have this problem. Are you that blind? And a healthy weight/diet isn't all there is to raising a kid.

I would rather the world attempt to cure the sickness of sick obeisity (due to eating crap) then to see the future generations following the examples their parents gave them.

Yeah, I agree, but the government having the authority to take someone's kids away over this issue is not a good solution. Why not mandate a fat camp for kids that fall beyond this threshold?

In general, I am tired of excuses for shitty parents these days.

I don't think anyone's defending what's happening. It's just that not everyone sees the issue as black-and-white, fire-and-brimstone as you do.

This is a completely brand new idea in comparison with removal of children due to molestation or physical abuse.

Wow, you're actually putting that on the same footing? You can cause obesity in your child because you don't know any better (poor education or raised with the lifestyle), because you're poor or don't have much time, or what the fuck ever.

You're comparing something that may be rooted in ignorance rather than malice to an intentional abuse or defilement of a child. They're both problems, but they aren't even on the same fucking spectrum.

Because then when I grow up, and would understand why it had to be done and that it was for my own good

Haha, wow, I'm glad you have an alternate-reality generator so that you could observe this. People can carry lasting mental damage from a simple divorce between their parents. Emotional problems aren't easily answered rationally, otherwise they wouldn't be problems in the first place. Obesity, on the other hand, has a rational solution.

Instead of letting them become fat by feeding them crap everyday like its...."ok"

Out of curiosity, what's your opinion of obese adults?

 

[Roland_Deschain]

QUOTE unadulteratedawesome QUOTE



And there's plenty of people I don't think deserve to breed or raise children (or live, for that matter) and yet I'm not stupid enough to suggest it be placed into law. It's wise to keep any argument for taking someone's kids away in the realm of rationality, not pure opinion.

Then I guess I would be stupid then, call it facism but I call it a step in the right direction. Also its been pointed out that it would be a "last" resort. This result would come after extensive therapy along with attempts of self stabilization.

And I think that if we're doing this, we should be removing kids from the hands of anyone who is stupid enough to not vaccinate their kids or take them to a doctor. Why are you so quick to take someone's kid away if they're fat but not if they aren't preparing them against easily preventable diseases and illnesses? Or parents who risk their kid's health with false-medicine rather than, y'know, actual medicine.

I can agree with this logic sure, IF you could accuratly measure this habit anywhere near the degree of extreme obeisity. Its easy to see a child extremely overweight and seek means to understand their lifestlye or diet habits. Its not so easy to take tempature readings of children all year long to see how sick they are, and then witness how their parents react.

How exactly are you weighing these consequences? Have you been obese and from a broken home? Can you really weigh the impact of those two situations on someone's life and then fall down so hard on one side of the line? e

You can be an outcast for many reasons. And seeing as this is all hypothetical speculation, I could ask you the same question for your view on it.

If healthy lifestyles and thinking were contagious, we wouldn't have this problem. Are you that blind? And a healthy weight/diet isn't all there is to raising a kid.

Ideas are contagious my friend. I do not find coincidence in the fact that American's average life expectancy has decreased over the decade's. It is contagious because the more it happens, then the more people do it and think its not unhealthy and its normal.

Yeah, I agree, but the government having the authority to take someone's kids away over this issue is not a good solution. Why not mandate a fat camp for kids that fall beyond this threshold?

Yeah sure why not mandate a fat camp, either idea is breaking the threshold of liberty. I guess this is just is where our views differ.

I don't think anyone's defending what's happening. It's just that not everyone sees the issue as black-and-white, fire-and-brimstone as you do

And that is why it has gotten worse, and in a sense you are defending the idea right now, just not in the way you meant. Some problems only fade away when handled.

Wow, you're actually putting that on the same footing? You can cause obesity in your child because you don't know any better (poor education or raised with the lifestyle), because you're poor or don't have much time, or what the fuck ever.

I can only speculate, as can any of us. I am taking the understand I have now and placing it against the understanding of a child. And this is WHY, I plan to have children when I can support them, and can care for them.

You're comparing something that may be rooted in ignorance rather than malice to an intentional abuse or defilement of a child. They're both problems, but they aren't even on the same fucking spectrum.

And how do you know it is not intentional abuse? Can you really see the mind of a child support collecting huge mother who is letting her kids make the same mistakes she did. Perhaps just tells her its ok and she can be fat, there is nothing wrong with your weight. ITS IS intentional abuse in the fact that it is abuse she is too ignorant to see herself, its misconstrued intentional abuse.

Haha, wow, I'm glad you have an alternate-reality generator so that you could observe this. People can carry lasting mental damage from a simple divorce between their parents. Emotional problems aren't easily answered rationally, otherwise they wouldn't be problems in the first place. Obesity, on the other hand, has a rational solution.

My parents went through a divorce. And if mankind rellied on alternate reality generator for their answers, then who is to say slavory would not have been abolished, or maybe the cold war would have happened. The reason people change is because they THINK and predict, and picture the result, without really knowing the answer. Who is to say a law wouldnt be placed in effect and 30 years later almost no obeisity by bad dieting and less child abuse. You can only speculate on debates like this.

Out of curiosity, what's your opinion of obese adults?

This is not an opinon agaisnt obeise people, it is for them. And I do not hate negative social appearences, I hate social thinking

 

[Gingerbread Lesbian]

Listen BOTTEM LINE, there are people who are shitty and screwed up parents.

No one is arguing against the fact there are bad parents, but a child being obese doesn't automatically mean they're bad parents, yes there will be parents who are bad and know what they feed their child is wrong, but you can't tar everyone with the same brush.

There are parents who let their kids eat nothing but crap all day everyday while they watch them turn into giant whales, and possibly do the same thing. In my personal opinion THOSE parents DO NOT deserve their children, and the children deserve something better.

I respect your opinion, but at the time it's still tarring everyone with the same brush, parents who feed their kids to extreme obesity, know they are doing so, and continue to do so even when there are other options probably don't, no. But some parents won't know or won't be deliberately intending to hurt their child.

Taking care of another life is one of the highest responsibilities you can obtain, and some people just do not care about their children. IT IS WRONG, and I say those parents should be stripped of the human life that they are destroying.

This is true, if you owe someone a duty of care, whether it be a child, someone suffering physical or psychological difficulties or even an older person, they should do their upmost within reasonability to take care of that person. But again, it still comes down to whether or not someone knows what they are doing is wrong.

I would rather children be faced with mental issues from being stripped away from their parents at a young age, then to have the future generations continuing the same bullshit cycle of feeding their kids crap and letting them become whales when we could be helping them live healthy lives.

I would strongly argue mental issues are far worse than physical issues.

You can say what you want about "its not right," or "Its not fair, the government shouldn't take children," blah blah blah blah blah. In extreme cases I do not think there is any other way. You can eduacate the kids at school all you want, it does not stop them from going to a home only filled with shitty food where their parents are not cooking dinner but rather feeding them a bag of cheetos.

Most people agree that in extreme cases it could be used as an option but only when other options are exhausted.

The bottem line is that so many parents do not deserve the children they have, and healthy thinking and lifestyles are contagious, just like the flu. I would rather the world attempt to cure the sickness of sick obeisity (due to eating crap) then to see the future generations following the examples their parents gave them.

Again, not all parents know what they're doing is wrong nor will most parents be intentionally hurting their child in the long term because I expect that although in the long term it is far from healthy, a lot of children are quite happy.

In general, I am tired of excuses for shitty parents these days.

Because you're tarring everyone with the same brush. Obesity in children does not automatically mean bad parenting.

As someone else said before, since when has it ever been subject to singling out obeisity? This is a completely brand new idea in comparison with removal of children due to molestation or physical abuse.

The article itself specifically points to obesity, my point is, slim children can be just as unhealthy without showing physical signs. However, there is absolutely no way overfeeding a child can be compared to molesting or physical abusing a child.

I can agree with this logic sure, IF you could accuratly measure this habit anywhere near the degree of extreme obeisity. Its easy to see a child extremely overweight and seek means to understand their lifestlye or diet habits. Its not so easy to take tempature readings of children all year long to see how sick they are, and then witness how their parents react.

Which goes back to my point I made earlier in the thread, just because someone isn't obese doesn't mean they can't be extremely unhealthy, if the government decide to take away obese children, why stop there?

then the more people do it and think its not unhealthy and its normal

This again goes back to my point. If society begin to think it's healthy is it really the parents fault? Are they actually bad parents then?

And that is why it has gotten worse, and in a sense you are defending the idea right now, just not in the way you meant. Some problems only fade away when handled.

Because black and white isn't always the best way to look at things, it's not wrong nor is it inferior, but it goes hand-in-hand with looking outside of the box to develop ideas. The idea is going to get nowhere if the government just go "your child is obese, therefore you're bad parents and you're losing custody".

And how do you know it is not intentional abuse? Can you really see the mind of a child support collecting huge mother who is letting her kids make the same mistakes she did. Perhaps just tells her its ok and she can be fat, there is nothing wrong with your weight. ITS IS intentional abuse in the fact that it is abuse she is too ignorant to see herself, its misconstrued intentional abuse.

It's not intentional abuse, period. I study law and as part of my university course I had to sit through several cases, four of which involved molesting, physically abusing and in some cases raping children of 8-12 years of age - THAT is intentional, there's no ignorance or accidental child abuse involved in physically abusing and molesting a child. Like I've pointed out on numerous occasions, because a parent lets their child become obese does not automatically mean they know what they're doing is wrong.

 

[Roland_Deschain]

No one is arguing against the fact there are bad parents, but a child being obese doesn't automatically mean they're bad parents, yes there will be parents who are bad and know what they feed their child is wrong, but you can't tar everyone with the same brush.

And no one said it does make them bad parents.... read what I am saying. I never once said they ALL are.


I respect your opinion, but at the time it's still tarring everyone with the same brush, parents who feed their kids to extreme obesity, know they are doing so, and continue to do so even when there are other options probably don't, no. But some parents won't know or won't be deliberately intending to hurt their child.

I never "tarred everyone". And whether you know it or not, its the SAME problem, the harming results are not different. This is where therapy and self realization will weed out those who mean the best for their kids.


This is true, if you owe someone a duty of care, whether it be a child, someone suffering physical or psychological difficulties or even an older person, they should do their upmost within reasonability to take care of that person. But again, it still comes down to whether or not someone knows what they are doing is wrong.

And if they do know they are doing someone wrong yet continue to do it then I say do something about it.


I would strongly argue mental issues are far worse than physical issues.

I would strongly argue that physical issues can lead to adult mental issues..


Most people agree that in extreme cases it could be used as an option but only when other options are exhausted.

As do i....as I have said like 5 damn times


Again, not all parents know what they're doing is wrong nor will most parents be intentionally hurting their child in the long term because I expect that although in the long term it is far from healthy, a lot of children are quite happy.

Yeah they are happy until they become judged by society everyday. And they are happy with their parents until they one day loath them for letting them become this way.


Because you're tarring everyone with the same brush. Obesity in children does not automatically mean bad parenting.

Thats thet third time you have used this expression, and the third time I have had to said, I was not tarring everyone, you would realize this if you read my last 5 posts for this thread.


The article itself specifically points to obesity, my point is, slim children can be just as unhealthy without showing physical signs. However, there is absolutely no way overfeeding a child can be compared to molesting or physical abusing a child.

This article points to more then just obeisity, it points towards neglection of children and negative thinking and healthy lifestyles. I was not comparing them, just pointing out that this is bad.


Which goes back to my point I made earlier in the thread, just because someone isn't obese doesn't mean they can't be extremely unhealthy, if the government decide to take away obese children, why stop there?

Yeah why not, if the kids are starving the let them recieve help. Once again we are reminded that this is long after other solutions have been attempted, I dont know If I have to point this out again.



This again goes back to my point. If society begin to think it's healthy is it really the parents fault? Are they actually bad parents then?

Society IS parents. They go hand in hand, it is US who give sway to the changing lifestyles of society and pressure. How do you stop society? one mind at a time.


Because black and white isn't always the best way to look at things, it's not wrong nor is it inferior, but it goes hand-in-hand with looking outside of the box to develop ideas. The idea is going to get nowhere if the government just go "your child is obese, therefore you're bad parents and you're losing custody".

your right it isnt the way to ALWAYS look at things. Its the way to look at things that cannot be changed any other way. If you think obeseity is going to decrease instead of dramatically increase then you have nothing to worry about. I am no fool though.


It's not intentional abuse, period. I study law and as part of my university course I had to sit through several cases, four of which involved molesting, physically abusing and in some cases raping children of 8-12 years of age - THAT is intentional, there's no ignorance or accidental child abuse involved in physically abusing and molesting a child. Like I've pointed out on numerous occasions, because a parent lets their child become obese does not automatically mean they know what they're doing is wrong.

I dont care if you are John Grisham. I said it was miscontrued intentional abuse which might even be worse. Parents are INTENTIONALLY bringing their kids to McDonalds everyday, and it IS harming them. Put a little bow on it and say its a treat, whether they acknowlege they are harming them or not, it is intentional ignorance, and misunderstood abuse.

 

[Gingerbread Lesbian]

And no one said it does make them bad parents.... read what I am saying. I never once said they ALL are.

Your own quote basically stated that parents that let their children become obese do not deserve children; that in itself is a very sweeping statement.

I never "tarred everyone". And whether you know it or not, its the SAME problem, the harming results are not different. This is where therapy and self realization will weed out those who mean the best for their kids.

The end result isn't the problem it's the reasons and the causes behind it that need to be addressed, a husband kills his wife in a sudden loss of control because he finds out she's been cheating on him should he be punished the same way as a man who kills in cold blood? It's the same harming result. You don't need therapy or self realization to weed out who means best for their children, the majority of parents have heartfelt intentions to bring their children up the best they can, some just need help in being taught how to do so. It's not fair to say just because someone doesn't have a great amount of self realization that they don't care for their children.

And if they do know they are doing someone wrong yet continue to do it then I say do something about it.

My point is if they don't know they are doing something wrong then they won't see an issue.

As do i....as I have said like 5 damn times

But in nearly all your posts you've come across as "all parents who let their children get obese are bad parents"

Yeah they are happy until they become judged by society everyday. And they are happy with their parents until they one day loath them for letting them become this way.

That's a problem with society, not their parents. I'm in good shape because I play sport 3 times a week and go to the gym 3 days a week, but I wouldn't go around judging people because of their weight. It would help it society became a little more tolerable and less ignorant.

Thats thet third time you have used this expression, and the third time I have had to said, I was not tarring everyone, you would realize this if you read my last 5 posts for this thread.

And it nearly every post you come across as obesity in children = bad parenting.

This article points to more then just obeisity, it points towards neglection of children and negative thinking and healthy lifestyles. I was not comparing them, just pointing out that this is bad.

Obesity.

Yeah why not, if the kids are starving the let them recieve help. Once again we are reminded that this is long after other solutions have been attempted, I dont know If I have to point this out again.

I'm not on about children who are starving. Children who have a high metabolism could still be slim but eat just as much crap as obese children and be just as unhealthy without showing effects or starvation.

Society IS parents. They go hand in hand, it is US who give sway to the changing lifestyles of society and pressure. How do you stop society? one mind at a time.

Yes, but not all of society are parents. The whole one mind at a time rarely ever works either.

your right it isnt the way to ALWAYS look at things. Its the way to look at things that cannot be changed any other way. If you think obeseity is going to decrease instead of dramatically increase then you have nothing to worry about. I am no fool though.

Everything has an alternate way.

I dont care if you are John Grisham. I said it was miscontrued intentional abuse which might even be worse. Parents are INTENTIONALLY bringing their kids to McDonalds everyday, and it IS harming them. Put a little bow on it and say its a treat, whether they acknowlege they are harming them or not, it is intentional ignorance, and misunderstood abuse.

[/QUOTE]
You have evidently never been stood no more than a few feet away from a child who has to talk about being physically abused and molested. I'll tell you for a fact obesity is nothing compared to it so you shouldn't even mention the two in the same sentence. How can it be intentional if they don't acknowledge it?

 

[Roland_Deschain]

Your own quote basically stated that parents that let their children become obese do not deserve children; that in itself is a very sweeping statement.

No the sweeping statment is that the number of times I said there should be intense therapy on "extreme" cases before that is the result, as said in previous posts, my very first post (2nd post in this thread) stated that.


The end result isn't the problem it's the reasons and the causes behind it that need to be addressed, a husband kills his wife in a sudden loss of control because he finds out she's been cheating on him should he be punished the same way as a man who kills in cold blood? It's the same harming result. You don't need therapy or self realization to weed out who means best for their children, the majority of parents have heartfelt intentions to bring their children up the best they can, some just need help in being taught how to do so. It's not fair to say just because someone doesn't have a great amount of self realization that they don't care for their children.

I am talking about weeding out the parents are willing to make changes through therapy initially before there children are ever taken away, from those who refuse to change at all. I do not understand what point you are making.


My point is if they don't know they are doing something wrong then they won't see an issue.

And thats where forced seperation comes in, for those too clueless to understand or change. THIS is the point I am making.


But in nearly all your posts you've come across as "all parents who let their children get obese are bad parents"

what do you mean nearly? My initial posts made the point of extreme cases, and I will add that I do not view them as "good" parents...do you?


That's a problem with society, not their parents. I'm in good shape because I play sport 3 times a week and go to the gym 3 days a week, but I wouldn't go around judging people because of their weight. It would help it society became a little more tolerable and less ignorant.

Mistreatment of children is not something I am willing to tolerate in any form, and I do not support ignorance of a healthy country, I am sorry this is where we differ.

And it nearly every post you come across as obesity in children = bad parenting.

No....as I stated before once again...if you read my early posts....Extreme obesity from lack of health education, proper food or excersize is bad parenting (If diesease or genetics does not come into play.)




I'm not on about children who are starving. Children who have a high metabolism could still be slim but eat just as much crap as obese children and be just as unhealthy without showing effects or starvation.

Well I guess we should take care of the problems we have a better chance of understanding first....eh?


Yes, but not all of society are parents. The whole one mind at a time rarely ever works either.

In this case I believe it does (and that is my opinion.) I think reckless obesity will be just like the acceptance or a different trend or race into our country. At first its attacked, and then everyone just gets used to it.


Everything has an alternate way.

Of course, thats why we are debating.


You have evidently never been stood no more than a few feet away from a child who has to talk about being physically abused and molested. I'll tell you for a fact obesity is nothing compared to it so you shouldn't even mention the two in the same sentence. How can it be intentional if they don't acknowledge it?



You cannot make assumptions about me. The only reason they are being mentioned here in the same sentance is because a certain someone else mentioned them first. The actions that are leading the abuse are intentional. I feel that abuse through the eyes of a person thinking they are doing good is worse then those who know they are doing bad, a prime example is the holocaust and the millions that "honestly thought" the jews were nothing more then a plauge.

 

[unadulteratedawesome]

The actions that are leading the abuse are intentional. I feel that abuse through the eyes of a person thinking they are doing good is worse then those who know they are doing bad, a prime example is the holocaust and the millions that "honestly thought" the jews were nothing more then a plauge.[/COLOR]

This is a terrible analogy and you should feel terrible. The actions may be intentional, but the result is not. That is the difference. In the fat example, the parents would need to be giving their kid a candy bar to intentionally make them fat. The Jews were exterminated with the intention that they would be exterminated. The difference between these two issues is one has an unintended consequence and the other has a completely intended one.

and I do not support ignorance of a healthy country

So are you against adults being fat, too, or something? People choose pleasure over health all the time. It's not you can catch fatness by being near someone.

 

[Roland_Deschain]

This is a terrible analogy and you should feel terrible. The actions may be intentional, but the result is not. That is the difference. In the fat example, the parents would need to be giving their kid a candy bar to intentionally make them fat. The Jews were exterminated with the intention that they would be exterminated. The difference between these two issues is one has an unintended consequence and the other has a completely intended one.

The holocaust did not start as "lets kills them all" by everyone and that is basic knowledge. It was a select group of people who took advantage of the thoughts of an entire country to do it step by step, its the same as Rwanda and the Hutu's and Taitzie's. I do not feel terrible and you telling me I should is an immature way to debate because its a low blow. I might also add that even though the result is not intentional...it is still causes harm...so while you say that we shouldn't do anything because the people are too stupid to realize they are causing pain, I SAY we do something more to help those situations, because people refuse to acknowlege harm.

So are you against adults being fat, too, or something? People choose pleasure over health all the time. It's t you can catch fatness by being near someone.

I answered your question and I am tired of you twisted my words. I have nothing agaisn't fat people and for you to make me sound as if thats what
what I am saying is a pathetic way to have a conversation. At lease "California" is debating with decency. As I said ideas are contagious (and obviously we are talking about unrecognized severe health abuse)....and you choose to ignore that question by misconstrueing my words a second time. It is rude.

And what about the many other points I made to you.I notice how you just forget about those without any form of acknowledgment or reasoning. You managed to bring out the only two points that had nothing really to do with this debate. So from this point you are not trying to debate an idea, you are just debating me.


With that being said I guess its "Agree to Disagree". You say that forceful seperation is not an answer. And I maintain with my full belief that in certain
circumstances it CAN be.

I will also add that I am surprised you feel this way. You believe that children to not be brought to church and turned religious when they can not choose or understand for themselves. However this is along the lines of the same thing, parents are letting their kids become huge when the children do not really understand, should they not also be offered a choice on this matter? The point is that some of them are not givin the choice, but given shit to eat.

 

[L]

I'm going to make my statement, keeping in mind, that there is a world of difference between being obese and Quote on Quote, "Extremely Obese"

Vegans aren't allowed to raise their children on insufficient diets, why should parents who shove a refrigerator down a kids throat a week be able to keep their children?

Being a parent is a responsibility and a privilege; not a right.

 

[unadulteratedawesome]

I will also add that I am surprised you feel this way. You believe that children to not be brought to church and turned religious when they can not choose or understand for themselves. However this is along the lines of the same thing, parents are letting their kids become huge when the children do not really understand, should they not also be offered a choice on this matter? The point is that some of them are not givin the choice, but given shit to eat.

I actually agree wholeheartedly, I was playing Devil's Advocate. I see it doesn't work very well when I have other posts in other threads that contradict this stance. I think that not only, in these situations, the government should be able to shuffle your kids to another household (if therapy and whatnot has failed), I believe that the amount of children you should be allowed to have should be legally limited.

And you did come across as having a hatred for those fat people, which is why I asked those questions. If so, the tone of your argument would've changed considerably.

Though I don't think children really have a 'choice' in this matter. They probably don't know any better, given the behavior of their parents, and I don't think a child is able to make informed decisions about their own health until their teens, which is why government intervention is required.

I agree with L that children are a privilege and a duty, not a right.

 

[Roland_Deschain]

I actually agree wholeheartedly, I was playing Devil's Advocate. I see it doesn't work very well when I have other posts in other threads that contradict this stance. I think that not only, in these situations, the government should be able to shuffle your kids to another household (if therapy and whatnot has failed), I believe that the amount of children you should be allowed to have should be legally limited.


Its fair to take this stance in certain situations. Seeing as this is exactly where I stand I don't see why we were debating in the first place, its a given that its only going to be with extreme causes.

And you did come across as having a hatred for those fat people, which is why I asked those questions. If so, the tone of your argument would've changed considerably.

My forward posts displayed no hatred towards fat people, but hatred towards fat ignorant parents. The later post which may be the only one you acknowledged from the beginning was the only one that emphasized on the tone of "heat" as you might say. And this was only a response towards the direction of the tone that the debate itself was turning to.

Though I don't think children really have a 'choice' in this matter. They probably don't know any better, given the behavior of their parents, and I don't think a child is able to make informed decisions about their own health until their teens, which is why government intervention is required.

Thats what I said as well.

I agree with L that children are a privilege and a duty, not a right.

I phrased it as being the highest responsibility one can have.

 

[Harlequin]

Bottom line is many parental 'accidents' are a product of gross negligence. If you're ten year old son is morbidly obese you should've had the strength and knowlegde to parent him properly (that is if you agree with societies average standards of parenting), if not, then just pray the law doesn't change and take your child from you.