Final Fantasy has gone down-hill

[Starships]

of course it has. it's a japanese RPG game in a day in age where games like battlefield and uncharted exist. they were amazing back in the day but they only take you so far before people start saying they're button smashers or whatever. they're rpgs. they age. they are an acquired taste.

I have to disagree with this because when Final Fantasy IV and Final Fantasy VI was around they had to deal with then big guns like Mario, Megaman, Sonic etc And they still did pretty well. Maybe not massively, but enough to gain attention.

Final Fantasy VII had to deal with Metal Gear Solid, Tomb Raider, Resident Evil, Crash Bandicoot, Tekken, and Grand Turismo

Final Fantasy has always battled with other big game titles and have always come out pretty well against them. Battlefield and Uncharted are a acquired taste as well. I would rather sit on somebody farting on me than play Battlefield sorry, just being honest here.

Every game ages and that's sort of silly considering how well Final Fantasy IV and Final Fantasy VI still hold up today. In fact I would rather play FF IV and FF VI than some newer games that are coming out today. Yes games age but that doesn't mean that they are now terrible or something.

Big titles like Sonic, Megaman, Zelda have aged massively as well and yet people still play them and enjoy them despite their age.

People have whinged and complained about RPGs since like forever. I remember being about ten and some kid was ranting about how lame RPGs are because of the back then usual walk-and-flash random battle system. People are always going to complain about something that they don't like.

Final Fantasy XV is going to deal with and battle with other big titles as well. It's just how the gaming world works. Your favorites just have to battle for attention. That's how it goes, that's how been since the Pac- Man days. It's also going to have to battle with it's cousin the Kingdom Hearts series as well.

But why is Final Fantasy starting to loose it's praise, it's glory, it's limelight, it's respect, it's love, it's admire, it's attention ? Because Square-Enix has been making stupid mistakes and pooing around with cellphone games and making terrible choices when it came to making Final Fantasy 13 and treating it's fans like shit when it came to All The Bravest. Not because the flavor of the month games at the moment are the hip thing to play at the moment. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but this comment has made me a little mad.

 

[Robbiedbee]

Great post, Ballade.

One thing I will say though is we live in an ADD generation, everyone wants everything now, wants things to happen instantaneously, and it shows in all forms of life. Compared to the popular games of 15 years ago, current games reward the player much more easily, and are a lot more flashy and bright. I think Square-Enix have compromised the values of the series to fall more in line with current gaming trends, which is very disappointing.

Then again, I wonder how diehard Final Fantasy fans felt in 1996 when the series changed as much as it did between FF6 and FF7. Maybe I'm just a fanboy, a product of the "golden era".

 

[Starships]

Great post, Ballade.

Thanks I just love retro games and still believe that games like Sonic 2 and such still hold up today and that they are not any less of anything just because they've aged. And Final Fantasy IV and Final Fantasy VI are still pretty good.

Then again, I wonder how diehard Final Fantasy fans felt in 1996 when the series changed as much as it did between FF6 and FF7. Maybe I'm just a fanboy, a product of the "golden era".

My older friends of the games who grew up with Final Fantasy I on the NES and or Final Fantasy II which was actually Final Fantasy IV back then,( it's a little confusing) feel like Final Fantasy VI was the best one, Final Fantasy VII is alright but a little overrated, Final Fantasy VIII and Final Fantasy X/ X-2 are terrible and Final Fantasy IX was the best of the modern era. Most of them also love Final Fantasy XII and Tactics. Though this is just from 5 odd guys from real life and the interwebs, not every old gamer. Though imo it makes sense, very much so with the Final Fantasy IX part.


Nah ! It's doesn't matter when you were born ! Don't be silly ! Judging by my age I should be joining all the teens and young adults on Tumblr and be raving about Lightning and complaining about the boob physics with LR and how dare they make her boobs jiggle ! But here I am re-playing FF VI again. You could of been born in 1963 and have Final Fantasy Mystic Quest as your favorite. It all depends on you and your own personal taste. And if so, there is nothing wrong with being a fanboy or fangirl as longs as you act sensible and don't be a dick towards others within that fandom.

 

[Robbiedbee]

Thanks I just love retro games and still believe that games like Sonic 2 and such still hold up today and that they are not any less of anything just because they've aged. And Final Fantasy IV and Final Fantasy VI are still pretty good.

Sonic 2 is indeed amazing. Even the graphics look nice and colourful and haven't aged too badly. Sonic 3 & Knuckles is one of my all-time favourites, it's just all the best parts about Sonic 2, then enhanced.

My older friends of the games who grew up with Final Fantasy I on the NES and or Final Fantasy II which was actually Final Fantasy IV back then,( it's a little confusing) feel like Final Fantasy VI was the best one, Final Fantasy VII is alright but a little overrated, Final Fantasy VIII and Final Fantasy X/ X-2 are terrible and Final Fantasy IX was the best of the modern era. Most of them also love Final Fantasy XII and Tactics. Though this is just from 5 odd guys from real life and the interwebs, not every old gamer. Though imo it makes sense, very much so with the Final Fantasy IX part.

That's interesting. There really is no accounting for taste, but it stands to reason that they'd like FFIX best of the modern era. Which is your favourite?

Nah ! It's doesn't matter when you were born ! Don't be silly ! Judging by my age I should be joining all the teens and young adults on Tumblr and be raving about Lightning and complaining about the boob physics with LR and how dare they make her boobs jiggle ! But here I am re-playing FF VI again. You could of been born in 1963 and have Final Fantasy Mystic Quest as your favorite. It all depends on you and your own personal taste. And if so, there is nothing wrong with being a fanboy or fangirl as longs as you act sensible and don't be a dick towards others within that fandom.

Well said. I suppose I am a FFVII fanboy in that I think I like it blindly over all other games, and am misled by my nostalgia glasses. I couldn't care less what other people say about it though; I won't argue tooth and nail to defend it on an internet forum.

Btw, FFVI is probably my next game, I'm replaying FFVII at the minute, knocking a few things off my bucket list (master E.Skill Materia, beat the Weapons, acquire Great Gospel).

 

[Starships]

That's interesting. There really is no accounting for taste, but it stands to reason that they'd like FFIX best of the modern era. Which is your favourite?

I like Final Fantasy VIII, Final Fantasy IX, Final Fantasy IV and Final Fantasy VI

Final Fantasy VII is alright but it does have the best Final Fantasy character of all time ! Aeris ! No not Aeri-TH Aeris !

Well said. I suppose I am a FFVII fanboy in that I think I like it blindly over all other games, and am misled by my nostalgia glasses. I couldn't care less what other people say about it though; I won't argue tooth and nail to defend it on an internet forum.

Ah nice ! Loyal to the end !


Stop that nostalgia glasses nonsense. Final Fantasy VII is a pretty good RPG no matter how old it is.

Btw, FFVI is probably my next game, I'm replaying FFVII at the minute, knocking a few things off my bucket list (master E.Skill Materia, beat the Weapons, acquire Great Gospel).

That's cool we better get back in topic though !

If you want we can carry on this chat on your profile. :dave:

 

[Shaissa]

I do fit that weird profile, of liking IV, IX and Tactics the most.

FFVII I thought was alright, just... feel that it gets over the top for being the first 3D RPG to really go mainstream around the world...

but for me IX was like a farewell to the way that things use to be for FF RPG's... well most RPGs actually... that was the start of JRPG's becoming... something else.... not that I think it was a bad thing or anything, but that was one generation that will for the most part never come back...

 

[Rey]

Hmmmm....

Okay. I do not think I have posted here before.

I do not think Final Fantasy is really going to hell. I think people think it is going down hill because they hate the Final Fantasy XIII series.

Final Fantasy is a really great series. Believe it or not, I appreciate almost every game in the series. There are a few games in the main series that I just cannot stand. FF II had nothing really going for it and Final Fantasy V just bored me to hell. Final Fantasy III was one I did not really care for as well because I found the characters and the storyline pretty boring.

Those are like the only Final Fantasy games I have a problem with. I would say IV, VI, VII(although overrated), VIII, IX, X, XII and XIII were the better entries in the series.

It is a given that everybody appreciates the older titles and is getting bored of XIII. Perhaps XIII just has lots of mythology to it? People think the story is stupid because they probably never really give it time.

The main reasons I can think of for that is...

1) They do not really see what is going on because they do not read datalogs(They get bored because datalogs should be in the story and not something "outside")
2)There is a non intimidating villain
3)Lightning's motives are boring
4) XIII is a long and boring hallway
5) The battle system is just very easy till chapter 11
6) FF XIII-2 fucked everything up with time travel.
7) Lightning Returns looks like a joke for the final part of the trilogy
8) LR is an excuse to sexually promote Lightning.
9) Toriyama tries too hard to make a story.
10) What the fuck SE? Give us FF XV already!
11) FF XIII-2 makes no sense!!!!!!!!!!(That is just you.)
12) THERE IS NOT ENOUGH EXPLORATION!!!!

I have to admit I am looking forward to FF XV. I have always stated that I was tired of waiting, did not care, etc. Yeah I know I could probably be seen as a hypocrite for liking FF XV now. Actually no! Many fans got extremely tired of waiting for Versus/FFXV and I am sure they sympathize with me.

Will FF "rise" again when FFXV releases? Tough question. Some fans are happy that FFX is being made in HD, some fans are happy about FF XIV, and some fans are happy about Lightning Returns. Eventually, fans will want to treasure something better than the older entries. FF XV was a huge wait... and still pretty much is. I think if it were to flop, FF would die forever. It is the only time where I will fully believe FF has died.

I am going to be quite brutally honest here but LR is not really looking that great at all. It might impress fans for a day or two before it dies down. There is no doubt that people will praise LR for a few things.... but we can expect criticism on how it feels very rushed. Correct me if I am wrong but isn't LR supposed to be shorter than XIII-2? I honestly thought XIII-2 was very short and it would be quite stupid to have the shortest game as the finale.

Does LR even have things going for it?

Did the developers make sure that the game cannot be rushed all the way to the end? I would think that so many fans are sick of FF XIII and just want it to end. I have to ask myself why other playthroughs will even matter after the final ending of the XIII series. I guess there are people who are into the achievements/trophies. What is there after that though? Nothing. I guarantee people will all be thinking FF XIII-2 should have had LR's ending as DLC someday.

FF XIII definitely suffered when comparing to other entries in the series. It is not that bad if people actually do take the time to understand it... and not rage at everything in the game. FF XIII was supposed to be a different approach to the series. It is sad to see that many people did not appreciate the changes they made with FF XIII. FF XIII-2 was not a great improvement either.

A major reason why FF suffers today is because of the storytelling and possibly the lack of inspiration. All of this applies to FF XIII in many ways.

Why can't fans just see how FFXV goes? I know everybody hates on XIII, but they will still buy the last entry in the series. People complain about the most idiotic things when it comes to FF XIII. The game is not evil or anything like that. I guarantee it is not the worst game in the series either!

A TRILOGY? I AM TIRED OF ALL THIS XIII SHITE!!!!! BRING ON VERSUS/FFXV! <----- Majority of the forum, IMO.

I admit FF XIII has flaws. It was a 6/10 for an FF game, imo.

I cannot form hate for a video game that was not even that bad to begin with. People just diss it so badly because it lacks INNOVATION, strategy, and exploration. Was that really the end of the world to some of you? We all know people will still be buying LR to see how SE can "fuck up" the story even more. Hey, I guess there is always Lightning's boobs to cheer people up right?

/sarcasm

I will say one thing though: Square Enix should take notes when looking at Monolith soft.

I guarantee FF will still be huge in the industry even after FFXV launches. It is kind of like Mario, Zelda, pokemon, etc.

Final thoughts: I think VI, X, XII, and IV/IX are what really made FF shine. That is just my opinion though.

I think Tales is sort of suffering in this category as well. The later games just make you think of how good Symphonia and Abyss were. I guess that is why some people have mixed reviews about Tales of Xillia and Graces.

 

[spoonyrogdrumps]

Good comments here. I agree with some things. This is my take:
I you were to step outside of the box and judge the games since enix took over what would your judgement be.
I would say the games have gone downhill since enix took over. Most would agree.
The games don't have an interesting storytelling narrative as they used to.
Most people want to kill Mog from XIII-2 and XIII-3. IF HE KUPO'S ONE MORE TIME KUPO KUPO!!!!
The gameplay in and of itself isn't bad it's how it's presented.

When disc based games with more storage space appeared with the PS1, the narrative and storytelling became more involved. IE VII - X were good games with richer storytelling and narrative. The SNES was still good as it had more storage space than NES but the disc area advanced it.

One has to take into account the way Japan as a whole runs it's video game business. It's seems that they are very strict corporate minded nowadays. Sakaguchi and Uematsu were the genius behind the golden years. Sakaguchi himself is a good writer and storyteller. The people running Square now are not as good as he is at storytelling. I also don't think age has as much to do with it as people think. I don't think we've grown out of Final Fantasy. I think SquareEnix has, since they think their statistics are telling them different. It doesn't matter if your 13, 40 years old or older. Adults like good kids/family movies just as much as kids do. IE Disney, Dreamworks etc. It's storytelling and presentation that make the difference. It always has.
Square has tried to reach the "stupid gamer" the XIII series is really easy. I mean no offence to people who are mentally handicapped. That comment is toward people that don't want to take the time to learn.

The wonderful thing that people liked about Final Fantasy in it's world presentation is that it had a world map you could explore. Vehicles such as Airships, boats, cars etc.
People liked that battle was tactical and you just didn't button mash. It was more challenging than a lot of action games at the time since you had to use your brain more.
People aren't stupid. In-fact we are smarter than ever. At-least the ones who are educated or naturally intelligent. America is a great country where everyone has the opportunity to educate themselves. Other countries not so much, like Japan. Only the really intelligent and wealthy people of Japan get educated. The business of gaming in Japan just doesn't care about Western consumers but their own. However since America is the largest consumer in the world it would be smart of them to not dumb down a game, or put the effort to hire a good storyteller.

To the poster above. The Last of Us is my favorite game and Naughty Dog is my favorite developer. They get it.

 

[Starships]

Hmmmm....

The main reasons I can think of for that is...

1) They do not really see what is going on because they do not read datalogs(They get bored because datalogs should be in the story and not something "outside")
2)There is a non intimidating villain
3)Lightning's motives are boring
4) XIII is a long and boring hallway
5) The battle system is just very easy till chapter 11
6) FF XIII-2 fucked everything up with time travel.
7) Lightning Returns looks like a joke for the final part of the trilogy
8) LR is an excuse to sexually promote Lightning.
9) Toriyama tries too hard to make a story.
10) What the fuck SE? Give us FF XV already!
11) FF XIII-2 makes no sense!!!!!!!!!!(That is just you.)
12) THERE IS NOT ENOUGH EXPLORATION!!!!

Agree so much. Yeah the villian of Final Fantasy 13 was pretty dumb, what was he ? Some evil pope ?

Also

13 ) makes a decent game on the psp ( type 0 ) but makes it Japan only

and

14 ) makes a actually decent RPG game, but on the 3DS instead of the main consoles. And gives it a different title, so it can't count as a improvement on Final Fantasy.

15 ) makes cheap ass lazy cellphone ports, instead of decent remakes, cellphone games most people don't care about, and All The Bravest.

It doesn't matter if your 13, 40 years old or older. Adults like good kids/family movies just as much as kids do. IE Disney, Dreamworks etc. It's storytelling and presentation that make the difference.

lol so true. I went to go see Frozen at a light night session, which ended at midnight, and there was only teenagers and young adults there, and only two kids. We all thought that the movie was fucking awesome. Not to mention, my mum loves the Jungle Book, and even brought the ost.

Final Fantasy XIII did feel a little too preteeny, and teenage-y hence is mostly likely why most of it's hardcore fanbase are around the 13- 18 age group.

Final Fantasy should be for anybody who wants to play, not for teens only. It was never like this for Final Fantasy I- VII, okay VIII and X was teenage y, but it did have it's adult moments. IX feels like the Disney one of the list, " sugary tar ", dark but also sweet, which are Disney movies in a nutshell.

 

[Mystical_Gaming]

After reading everything I've understood better how people feel about Final Fantasy in general. I really have no experience with the series other than XIII so my meter for Square Enix's 'failure rate' is really non-existent. In a way maybe this is a good thing. I was able to appreciate FFXIII for what it was with an open mind and not have past expectations dictating how I feel about the game trilogy.

One thing Square did right with XIII at the very least was bring some new people (like myself) into the series. I feel XV will be more acceptable by the veterans (I hope). I'd like to think FF in general is still doing well. Games these days take so long to make. It's not like the past where a small team can bust out a title in a year. As a game tester and working on AAA titles in the past I know how intricate and delicate it can be working on such massive projects that literally include HUNDREDS of people ranging from testers, coders, artists, story writers, and level designers. It's one huge collaboration with a ton of moving pieces. So many pieces it sometimes feels too big for it's own good and it amazed me XIII was so different from the other games. Thats a huge gamble in the gaming industry. These games are no longer cheap to make and Square went out on a limb. At the very least FFXIII did not feel broken to me. I've spent $60 on other AAA titles only to be disappointed by massive bugs or very terrible gameplay bugs that broke everything (cough Alien Colonial Marines and Brink). FFXIII trilogy felt like a whole and complete package to me.Ok XIII wasn't widely accepted by many and maybe with FFXV so far down the pipeline it may not be what everyone was hoping for either but I'm sure they've got someone somewhere already formulating the next Final Fantasy with current data and reception from fans to make something they love. I hear FFVIII on steam and FFVIII are selling like hotcakes and Square is considering more pc titles possibly: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/square-enix-wants-to-bring-final-fantasy-games-to-pc/1100-6417852/

I believe they will make what sells so if that means anything they will see FFX HD selling really well and realize there is a desire for more games like that.

 

[Mr. Revolution]

When Squaresoft merged with Enix, a new business model was implemented. It isn't enough to churn out a full-fledged Final Fantasy every 1-3 years; Square-Enix has made a push to increase its revenue by taking shortcuts, relying heavily on marketing, and exploiting old accomplishments rather than focusing on innovation. In order to maximize their earnings, SE is investing less on what it perceives as long-term successes and is focusing on what it has determined to be short-term successes based on previous marketing data. What do I mean by this? Put simply, in order to make a large profit, SE is focusing on fan service by reusing old games, characters, and stories that have already proven to be a commercial success rather than invest small fortunes and time into making original games. The reasoning behind this is most likely a combination of the time it takes to adapt games to newer technology and the fiscal costs associated with such ventures. As FFXV has demonstrated, it takes a long time to make a new Final Fantasy that can utilize modern console advancements to the fullest.

SE's new business model for novel games sacrifices substance for aesthetics. The proof of this in the increasingly polarizing FFXIII Trilogy. Many complaints have been stacked against the storyline and overall character development throughout the FFXIII Trilogy, yet critics seldom complain about the aesthetics. For many critics, the FFXIII games are more pretty to look at than they are to play. Very little substance exists within these games as they are mired by confusing plots, fractured character development, and the recent objectification of the main character. But this model should not surprise anyone. Since SE's creation, FF has lost its novelty. It's easier and cheaper for the developer to work with a pre-established plot and roster of characters than to come up with these things from scratch. FFX-2 is the first experiment conducted by the company to gauge its commercial success. Old character models and scenery were used and the main characters--much like Lightning is today--were exploited for fan service purposes. In other words, Final Fantasy has become a playground for developer-backed fanfiction. The quality has slipped not just because it's "cheaper", but also because many of the people responsible for the original FF games were, during this period, slowly being phased out of the company. Sakaguchi is the big name most people will know; he left the company during FFXII's production, and as a result, the storyline and development took a turn. FFXII was dealt a further blow when its director took a leave of absence in the middle of production. When the Executive Producer and the Director are replace in mid-production, changes will obviously occur as the new people in charge will approach the game creation from a different mindset and angle. Although a commercial success and highly acclaimed game, the FFXII that we know today is not the same FFXII that was originally conceived of prior to Squaresoft's merger. I am not trying to say this is a good or bad thing; I am merely demonstrating how changing the people in charge will in turn change the end product.

This same concept of change can also extend to the new business model. It's easier to make a Dissidia than it is to make a new Final Fantasy. People love Cloud, Squall, Terra, and all the other main characters. If you put them all into one game, it will surely sell. Likewise, it's easy to make a FFVII compilation. You already have the characters, story, and concepts, and you already have the solid fanbase and marketing data that suggests FFVII's popularity. What you don't have is the story for a new FF. You don't have the characters, the concepts, or the data. Also, now that SE is making a larger push to penetrate the Western market, they've decided to change Final Fantasy, determining that Westerners will not like a traditional JRPG. So they've added things like Leona Lewis hoping to grab our attention and push FF out of the niche status into a mainstream hit. The confidence Squaresoft had in FF is not shared by SE. They don't understand today's gaming market and they're fumbling around trying to milk extra earnings from previous commercial successes. That's why you have so many new copies of the older FFs floating around the app store, PSN, and handheld consoles. It's safer for them to market these smaller, cheaper games than it is for them to pour millions of yen into another gamble like FFXIII. FFXV is Yoichi Wada's last gamble, and it's taking almost a decade to complete. He's already resigned his post and the game is nowhere near release. Gambles just won't work for these people anymore, so don't be surprised if you see X-3 or IV-3 in the future or VII and VIII available for your tablet. They WILL hit the shelves fast and they WILL sell. Even if new sequels like X-3 and IV-3 are commercial flops, the marketing and nostalgia alone will ensure that SE walk away with a tidy profit.

In sum, Final Fantasy was better as a series composed of unrelated games, each with its own unique story, cast of characters, and musical accompaniment. However, most of the people responsible for these games no longer work for SE. The company itself no longer wishes to pursue the "one story per number" agenda and instead seeks to maximize the usage of its character renders, concepts, and stories by turning the most profit through sequels and spin-offs. SE does not understand today's market. They've failed to make good use of DLC, they neglect the potential found in the apps market, and by attempting to appeal to the Western market, many through their harsh criticisms of FFXIII would argue that SE have in fact alienated the Western market. The quality of FF games will sadly continue to plummet. Even if FFXV is a commercial success with little or no criticisms rivaling those of FFXIII's, it still demonstrates a weak business model that cannot support quality products. It is disheartening to think that a good Final Fantasy has to come at the cost of so many ill contrived ones made in the interim.

 

[spoonyrogdrumps]

lol so true. I went to go see Frozen at a light night session, which ended at midnight, and there was only teenagers and young adults there, and only two kids. We all thought that the movie was fucking awesome. Not to mention, my mum loves the Jungle Book, and even brought the ost.

Final Fantasy XIII did feel a little too preteeny, and teenage-y hence is mostly likely why most of it's hardcore fanbase are around the 13- 18 age group.

Final Fantasy should be for anybody who wants to play, not for teens only. It was never like this for Final Fantasy I- VII, okay VIII and X was teenage y, but it did have it's adult moments. IX feels like the Disney one of the list, " sugary tar ", dark but also sweet, which are Disney movies in a nutshell.

I thank you for your compliment but I don't think Final Fantasy should be playable by anyone. It should have characteristics of good storytelling like Disney but it shouldn't be for kids as it's meant to be for teens and older as it's meant to be. The older the better in my opinion. It should deal with more mature subject matter and a narrative with a high enough vocabulary base among other things.

After reading everything I've understood better how people feel about Final Fantasy in general. I really have no experience with the series other than XIII so my meter for Square Enix's 'failure rate' is really non-existent. In a way maybe this is a good thing. I was able to appreciate FFXIII for what it was with an open mind and not have past expectations dictating how I feel about the game trilogy.

One thing Square did right with XIII at the very least was bring some new people (like myself) into the series. I feel XV will be more acceptable by the veterans (I hope). I'd like to think FF in general is still doing well. Games these days take so long to make. It's not like the past where a small team can bust out a title in a year. As a game tester and working on AAA titles in the past I know how intricate and delicate it can be working on such massive projects that literally include HUNDREDS of people ranging from testers, coders, artists, story writers, and level designers. It's one huge collaboration with a ton of moving pieces. So many pieces it sometimes feels too big for it's own good and it amazed me XIII was so different from the other games. Thats a huge gamble in the gaming industry. These games are no longer cheap to make and Square went out on a limb. At the very least FFXIII did not feel broken to me. I've spent $60 on other AAA titles only to be disappointed by massive bugs or very terrible gameplay bugs that broke everything (cough Alien Colonial Marines and Brink). FFXIII trilogy felt like a whole and complete package to me.Ok XIII wasn't widely accepted by many and maybe with FFXV so far down the pipeline it may not be what everyone was hoping for either but I'm sure they've got someone somewhere already formulating the next Final Fantasy with current data and reception from fans to make something they love. I hear FFVIII on steam and FFVIII are selling like hotcakes and Square is considering more pc titles possibly: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/square-enix-wants-to-bring-final-fantasy-games-to-pc/1100-6417852/

I believe they will make what sells so if that means anything they will see FFX HD selling really well and realize there is a desire for more games like that.

I encourage you to play the good games. If not all of I-IX at least play VII-IX.

When Squaresoft merged with Enix, a new business model was implemented. It isn't enough to churn out a full-fledged Final Fantasy every 1-3 years; Square-Enix has made a push to increase its revenue by taking shortcuts, relying heavily on marketing, and exploiting old accomplishments rather than focusing on innovation. In order to maximize their earnings, SE is investing less on what it perceives as long-term successes and is focusing on what it has determined to be short-term successes based on previous marketing data. What do I mean by this? Put simply, in order to make a large profit, SE is focusing on fan service by reusing old games, characters, and stories that have already proven to be a commercial success rather than invest small fortunes and time into making original games. The reasoning behind this is most likely a combination of the time it takes to adapt games to newer technology and the fiscal costs associated with such ventures. As FFXV has demonstrated, it takes a long time to make a new Final Fantasy that can utilize modern console advancements to the fullest.

SE's new business model for novel games sacrifices substance for aesthetics. The proof of this in the increasingly polarizing FFXIII Trilogy. Many complaints have been stacked against the storyline and overall character development throughout the FFXIII Trilogy, yet critics seldom complain about the aesthetics. For many critics, the FFXIII games are more pretty to look at than they are to play. Very little substance exists within these games as they are mired by confusing plots, fractured character development, and the recent objectification of the main character. But this model should not surprise anyone. Since SE's creation, FF has lost its novelty. It's easier and cheaper for the developer to work with a pre-established plot and roster of characters than to come up with these things from scratch. FFX-2 is the first experiment conducted by the company to gauge its commercial success. Old character models and scenery were used and the main characters--much like Lightning is today--were exploited for fan service purposes. In other words, Final Fantasy has become a playground for developer-backed fanfiction. The quality has slipped not just because it's "cheaper", but also because many of the people responsible for the original FF games were, during this period, slowly being phased out of the company. Sakaguchi is the big name most people will know; he left the company during FFXII's production, and as a result, the storyline and development took a turn. FFXII was dealt a further blow when its director took a leave of absence in the middle of production. When the Executive Producer and the Director are replace in mid-production, changes will obviously occur as the new people in charge will approach the game creation from a different mindset and angle. Although a commercial success and highly acclaimed game, the FFXII that we know today is not the same FFXII that was originally conceived of prior to Squaresoft's merger. I am not trying to say this is a good or bad thing; I am merely demonstrating how changing the people in charge will in turn change the end product.

This same concept of change can also extend to the new business model. It's easier to make a Dissidia than it is to make a new Final Fantasy. People love Cloud, Squall, Terra, and all the other main characters. If you put them all into one game, it will surely sell. Likewise, it's easy to make a FFVII compilation. You already have the characters, story, and concepts, and you already have the solid fanbase and marketing data that suggests FFVII's popularity. What you don't have is the story for a new FF. You don't have the characters, the concepts, or the data. Also, now that SE is making a larger push to penetrate the Western market, they've decided to change Final Fantasy, determining that Westerners will not like a traditional JRPG. So they've added things like Leona Lewis hoping to grab our attention and push FF out of the niche status into a mainstream hit. The confidence Squaresoft had in FF is not shared by SE. They don't understand today's gaming market and they're fumbling around trying to milk extra earnings from previous commercial successes. That's why you have so many new copies of the older FFs floating around the app store, PSN, and handheld consoles. It's safer for them to market these smaller, cheaper games than it is for them to pour millions of yen into another gamble like FFXIII. FFXV is Yoichi Wada's last gamble, and it's taking almost a decade to complete. He's already resigned his post and the game is nowhere near release. Gambles just won't work for these people anymore, so don't be surprised if you see X-3 or IV-3 in the future or VII and VIII available for your tablet. They WILL hit the shelves fast and they WILL sell. Even if new sequels like X-3 and IV-3 are commercial flops, the marketing and nostalgia alone will ensure that SE walk away with a tidy profit.

In sum, Final Fantasy was better as a series composed of unrelated games, each with its own unique story, cast of characters, and musical accompaniment. However, most of the people responsible for these games no longer work for SE. The company itself no longer wishes to pursue the "one story per number" agenda and instead seeks to maximize the usage of its character renders, concepts, and stories by turning the most profit through sequels and spin-offs. SE does not understand today's market. They've failed to make good use of DLC, they neglect the potential found in the apps market, and by attempting to appeal to the Western market, many through their harsh criticisms of FFXIII would argue that SE have in fact alienated the Western market. The quality of FF games will sadly continue to plummet. Even if FFXV is a commercial success with little or no criticisms rivaling those of FFXIII's, it still demonstrates a weak business model that cannot support quality products. It is disheartening to think that a good Final Fantasy has to come at the cost of so many ill contrived ones made in the interim.

Good thoughts on most parts. Here's hoping that Squinex's recent revelation will correct it's current trajectory.

 

[Mr. Revolution]

Good thoughts on most parts. Here's hoping that Squinex's recent revelation will correct it's current trajectory.

Unfortunately, I am not optimistic about SE's future projects. This "revelation" of theirs that the new business model has been counter-intuitive and damaging will most likely only lead to small-scale, original titles for mobile or handheld devices. Big names like Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts will most likely remain corrupted. SE has become too large to manage. They own far more assets now than Squaresoft did and they have more mainstream titles to manage. The acquisition of Eidos has muddied the waters, and the push for westernization has adulterated the FF franchise. If it takes them close to another decade to release another main FF after XV, you can pretty much kiss the series goodbye. The company would have retained its efficiency from the Squaresoft days if they concentrated more of their newly acquired resources towards just one game, but because they want to maximize their quarterly earnings, they'll most likely continue to push for multiple annual releases spanning from spin-offs to small-scale original games. Nothing of FF caliber and certainly nothing worth phoning home about. On the FF front, I estimate that we'll see another new Dissidia soon, along with more Theatryhthm news. Before KH3 is released, KHX won't be the last small-scale game. They'll mostly likely release something else for mobile after KH2.5. Aside from all of that, I don't pay attention to Tomb Raider or Hitman games, so it's anyone's guess.

 

[spoonyrogdrumps]

Unfortunately, I am not optimistic about SE's future projects. This "revelation" of theirs that the new business model has been counter-intuitive and damaging will most likely only lead to small-scale, original titles for mobile or handheld devices. Big names like Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts will most likely remain corrupted. SE has become too large to manage. They own far more assets now than Squaresoft did and they have more mainstream titles to manage. The acquisition of Eidos has muddied the waters, and the push for westernization has adulterated the FF franchise. If it takes them close to another decade to release another main FF after XV, you can pretty much kiss the series goodbye. The company would have retained its efficiency from the Squaresoft days if they concentrated more of their newly acquired resources towards just one game, but because they want to maximize their quarterly earnings, they'll most likely continue to push for multiple annual releases spanning from spin-offs to small-scale original games. Nothing of FF caliber and certainly nothing worth phoning home about. On the FF front, I estimate that we'll see another new Dissidia soon, along with more Theatryhthm news. Before KH3 is released, KHX won't be the last small-scale game. They'll mostly likely release something else for mobile after KH2.5. Aside from all of that, I don't pay attention to Tomb Raider or Hitman games, so it's anyone's guess.

They did say this change would affect their AAA titles which would include Final Fantasy.
Still I am just as skeptical as you. We will believe it when we see it.
They won't get my money unless the game proves worthy.
This revelation should have happened long ago but we all know that.
They are larger now but we all know that too.
I wouldn't say they are too large to manage as other companies are larger still and manage just fine.
Like most, people take this with a grain of salt.

 

[Mr. Revolution]

Other companies are managed differently, however. The composition of a company can make all the difference in terms of how it functions. There's no absolute law that states that all these new directions and acquisitions are going to be managed with optimum efficiency. People make mistakes all the time, and when you give someone authority on a scale they're not familiar with, it's not altogether uncommon to have a few screw ups here and there.

The fact is, Squaresoft's products haven't been properly assimilated into SE's setting. Until the people in charge can figure out a way to balance what used to make them great with the people and resources they currently have at their disposal, they're prone to error. Just because you have a large company, it doesn't mean that you're using all your personnel and resources to their full potential. Remember, no two companies are exactly alike, otherwise no one would ever make mistakes and no one would ever go bankrupt. Different companies have different policies, and the people in charge are the ones who shape those policies.

In my line of work, lots of people make lots of promises everyday. Most of the time, promises that are met come with caveats. In other words, there's a catch somewhere that's usually unfavorable. So when Matsuda says the company will start to focus on RPGs again, I'm going to be skeptical because I know that what he says and what he does will be two different things. It sounds hopeful that things will return to the way they used to be, but let's be realistic here: how many times has a company dialed back to an older mode of business? It's rare and unlikely. So yeah, he can talk about a return to the classic JRPG setup, but I can almost guarantee that there's going to be a caveat.

 

[spoonyrogdrumps]

Other companies are managed differently, however. The composition of a company can make all the difference in terms of how it functions. There's no absolute law that states that all these new directions and acquisitions are going to be managed with optimum efficiency. People make mistakes all the time, and when you give someone authority on a scale they're not familiar with, it's not altogether uncommon to have a few screw ups here and there.

The fact is, Squaresoft's products haven't been properly assimilated into SE's setting. Until the people in charge can figure out a way to balance what used to make them great with the people and resources they currently have at their disposal, they're prone to error. Just because you have a large company, it doesn't mean that you're using all your personnel and resources to their full potential. Remember, no two companies are exactly alike, otherwise no one would ever make mistakes and no one would ever go bankrupt. Different companies have different policies, and the people in charge are the ones who shape those policies.

In my line of work, lots of people make lots of promises everyday. Most of the time, promises that are met come with caveats. In other words, there's a catch somewhere that's usually unfavorable. So when Matsuda says the company will start to focus on RPGs again, I'm going to be skeptical because I know that what he says and what he does will be two different things. It sounds hopeful that things will return to the way they used to be, but let's be realistic here: how many times has a company dialed back to an older mode of business? It's rare and unlikely. So yeah, he can talk about a return to the classic JRPG setup, but I can almost guarantee that there's going to be a caveat.

Yes the structure of companies from one to another are different. I said that already agreeing with you just in different words.
While there is no absolute law there are laws that govern a company so to speak in accordance to business law and certain regulations. It also depends on the ethics of the business among other things.
It would be foolish for a company to say one thing and do another especially if it's coming from the president of a company, still it does happen. But yes, promises can be broken which is why it's never good to make promises unless you intend to keep them from an ethical perspective.
Square Enix does have Human Resource as a function of the business. There is debate about HR and it's contribution to business. This is just one function and it's not the deciding factor in the direction of the company but it's interesting how the departments could play out.
The article just talks about the creative and idea aspects behind the change of focus. Without knowing the inter-workings of Square Enix we can't say how it will change structure in personnel, resources or how it affects the business side of things. If it comes from the president, I assume that the message would be clear throughout the company. Though like you I am still skeptical as this company has shown some poor ethics at least at the superficial level.
Depending on ones knowledge in business and law this could all be subjective but as we are all outsiders of the company itself it's subjective by default.
I do believe that the company owes creative integrity to Sakaguchi as well as others.
I am with you on your skepticism but I can't go along with your guarantee's

 

[Mr. Revolution]

Indeed, I am in no way claiming to be an expert on the inner workings of SE in particular. However, the predictions I've made are drawn from my life experiences with other businesses, as well as the pattern the company has followed since its advent. I am very skeptical when analyzing PR statements because numerous factors can come into play between making a promise and actually following through with it. When I suggested a caveat, I was thinking something along the lines of dialing back to a classic JRPG product, but with the addition of DLC. This sounds innocent enough, but I'm worried that they may fracture games and force consumers to buy unlock keys for on-disc content or sell games in pieces. This is just an example of something they can do that would still offer a JRPG without reverting back to their old business model. I have no way to confirm or deny this is their true projected course, nor am I suggesting that this is something they are considering. However, I just can't believe that after all these years of compilations, sequels, and spin-offs involving shooters, rhythm games, and beat-em-ups that they're seriously going to revert back to a strict JRPG schema without any strings attached. I could be wrong, and I hope I am, but I'm still very skeptical.

Nevertheless, we both seem to be in general accordance. Time will tell just how SE will handle its next gen marketing ventures. All we can do as potential consumers is pray for the best.

 

[Battlecry]

I haven't played FF games since X, but personally creators needs to experiment things and go with the flow. I mean games evolve all through out the years and pretty much gaming companies need to create new things in order for them to succeed. FFXIII may haven't been living up to the title but did it succeed? Ofc it did you can see that on its total sales. Personally i think why people think that FF series gone downhill is just that they are still stuck in the past thinking that classic games such as FF - FF9 are what you so called Final Fantasies!!!Technically if Square Enix create the same types of games such of those would you think it would sell in the market? I honestly think they don't. There are still types of games like this w/c you can play in portable consoles but do they sell as high as what FFXIII? People shouldn't need to get stuck in the past and instead move on, go with the flow since you cannot bring those past games in to this generation.

 

[Sheechiibii]

FFXIII may haven't been living up to the title but did it succeed? Ofc it did you can see that on its total sales.

Not really, you pay for a game before you buy it. If most people bought it and hated it then that's not a success. Not when it's in a franchise and the only reason people bought it was because they love Final Fantasy games. You can see by the sales figures of the two sequels that FFXIII was not a success.

Other than that I agree with you I too think that change is good and that there was nothing wrong with Square trying something new with FFXIII.

 

[Battlecry]

Not really, you pay for a game before you buy it. If most people bought it and hated it then that's not a success. Not when it's in a franchise and the only reason people bought it was because they love Final Fantasy games. You can see by the sales figures of the two sequels that FFXIII was not a success.

Other than that I agree with you I too think that change is good and that there was nothing wrong with Square trying something new with FFXIII.

Like i said before i have never played XIII so i cannot argue anything about except its sales....but base on your comment i can say the same thing about FFVIII i never personally like but did can't deny the fact that it was successful!!see my point.
This leads me to another discussion, if FFXIII was a downhill or unsuccessful then why did FFXIII-2 sales tons of copies?

Thanks for agreeing with me for the most part..