Playstation Xenogears

[SiderealPassing]

I just played through this game for the first time recently. Simply put, what an amazing game. As I said in another thread, the only thing keeping it from being as good as Final Fantasy VII is the mediocrity of the second disc.

The plot was near perfect throughout the first disc. It kept me wondering what was going to happen next.

 

[Rey]

There may be a thread already but who knows.

Not better than FF VII? 2nd disc being mediocre?

Let me guess... You did not like the 2nd disc because it felt so limited on gameplay and instead focused on the story right? Well... what exactly was the problem here? It was a fantastic game. I replayed it recently and disc 2 is not even as bad as people think it is. If you love the story, disc 2 is amazing. Yeah I know all the parts where

Spoiler

Fei and Elly are sitting on a chair gazing at the stars

could have been playable sequences instead of just "Oh yeah, we went there, and then this happened!"

Still you cannot really say disc 2 is really that bad. I personally love the story and disc 2 was just fantastic. It has so many moments to keep you interested but I also agree that disc 1 did a better job in keeping you guessing. It is a ridiculously long game and I think if disc 2 were the same length as disc 1... Square soft would have had no time to develop it on time.

Anyway.

Xenogears > Final Fantasy VII. The characters are so much better, the plot tears ff vii to pieces, the villains are generally much more interesting than the villains in vii, etc.

Disc 1 and 2 are both good in every element. Disc 2 may lack some gameplay and feel like walls of text, but think about it.... in a remake, there would be voice actors and it would be awesome.

What I want for a remake?

Well here it goes. VA's in game and not just few cgi scenes. Much more cgi scenes would also be nice. The battle system can stay the way it is, the story can have some additional sidequests if possible.

Xenogears would be a treat to remake. It is seriously one of the best games I have ever played. I love it just as much as Xenosaga and Xenoblade.

 

[SiderealPassing]

My problem with the second disc was the way the story was told. Not the lack of gameplay. You can visibly tell that they were rushing it at that point. I still love the entire game regardless but the second disc was a disappointment.

I also wasn't too crazy about all of the characters in the game. Bart, Citan, and Elly were great characters but Fei got on my nerves ("I don't want to fight," *2 seconds later* "I'll help you guys"). Rico barely did anything, Emeralda came in out of nowhere and didn't do much, and Billy was an annoying little brat. Of course I'm just nitpicking there but the game wasn't perfect in terms of characters.

I haven't played Xenosaga or Xenoblade. I know they're only spiritual sequels but how do they compare to Xenogears?

 

[Ilyena]

I also wasn't too crazy about all of the characters in the game. Bart, Citan, and Elly were great characters but Fei got on my nerves ("I don't want to fight," *2 seconds later* "I'll help you guys"). Rico barely did anything, Emeralda came in out of nowhere and didn't do much, and Billy was an annoying little brat. Of course I'm just nitpicking there but the game wasn't perfect in terms of characters.

What game is perfect in terms of characters though?

I agree there were some characters that didn't add much. Personally, I liked Billy a lot. Citan was probably my overall favorite though. I thought most of the characters were pretty decent and I didn't outright hate any of them (which is more than I can say for some games).

I would love to see a remake because, from what I heard, the team was rushed to finish the game so they didn't get to complete it the way they wanted. Not sure how that would work out though because I think the team that did the game left Square and SE would still own the rights to the game.

 

[CassinoChips]

As much as I like Story Time with Fei, the second disc did leave a lot to be desired. However, I understand why they did it that way because if they did flesh it out fully it would likely have been over 100 hours of gameplay. (He says, as if that were a bad thing.) So, if they were to do a remake (which I hope they never do), I'd like to see that second disc fully realized.

 

[Rey]

What game is perfect in terms of characters though?

I agree there were some characters that didn't add much. Personally, I liked Billy a lot. Citan was probably my overall favorite though. I thought most of the characters were pretty decent and I didn't outright hate any of them (which is more than I can say for some games).

I would love to see a remake because, from what I heard, the team was rushed to finish the game so they didn't get to complete it the way they wanted. Not sure how that would work out though because I think the team that did the game left Square and SE would still own the rights to the game.

Every character was indeed decent in their own ways. Even Emeralda, which I should add has a sidequest in the game which gives lots of back story about her. She also becomes an adult upon doing that sidequest.

Spoiler

Just like in the end which means it is canon

Well they did not "rush" They wanted to make the 2nd disc as long as the 1st but of course as I said above that would be extremely long. Yes, in terms of development the 2nd disc was a bit shorter. They removed the gameplay involving what the characters speak about in disc 2.

Spoiler

Example: When Ramsus invades Nisan you would have fought him

Indeed, Xenosaga and Xenoblade were both created by Monolith soft, and SE do own the rights to xenogears. If Monolith partnered with SE it would be possible. Honestly... it would be a dream to have it remade on ps4. Just imagine how amazing the game would be.

As much as I like Story Time with Fei, the second disc did leave a lot to be desired. However, I understand why they did it that way because if they did flesh it out fully it would likely have been over 100 hours of gameplay. (He says, as if that were a bad thing.) So, if they were to do a remake (which I hope they never do), I'd like to see that second disc fully realized.

I am the same way but instead welcome a remake. Upon replaying it, I would think about how amazing it would be if it was remade.

In a remake, I would love to see Rico more involved and while his bond with Hammer indeed hinted they were really close, rico never spoke one word and I think a VA for him would be beneficial.

 

[Red Wizard]

Still you cannot really say disc 2 is really that bad. I personally love the story and disc 2 was just fantastic. It has so many moments to keep you interested but I also agree that disc 1 did a better job in keeping you guessing. It is a ridiculously long game and I think if disc 2 were the same length as disc 1... Square soft would have had no time to develop it on time.

Actually, if I may correct you here... most of the story's moments didn't really draw one in. Instead, it alienated the player using jargon that never really did get explained, or by giving huge blocks of text that made the player just be like "Okay, I don't care anymore, just let me play the game." I also lost interest in the story because it seemed like they wanted to throw in every single plot device ever invented and it made little sense to put it into the story. Also, I remember Krelian being leader of Shevat, and then later on the leader of Solaris... which is like Joseph Stalin becoming president of the USA. I dunno. I just feel like they tried to overdo it on the story, and it definitely shows.

 

[Rey]

Actually, if I may correct you here... most of the story's moments didn't really draw one in. Instead, it alienated the player using jargon that never really did get explained, or by giving huge blocks of text that made the player just be like "Okay, I don't care anymore, just let me play the game." I also lost interest in the story because it seemed like they wanted to throw in every single plot device ever invented and it made little sense to put it into the story. Also, I remember Krelian being leader of Shevat, and then later on the leader of Solaris... which is like Joseph Stalin becoming president of the USA. I dunno. I just feel like they tried to overdo it on the story, and it definitely shows.

.....What? Actually you are wrong there. You have to pay attention extremely carefully and not miss stuff. Lots of spoilers will follow but I will try my best to explain it. Also NO it did not say that "I do not care anymore" just play the game... They did not throw every plot device into the game. You should really read/download Xenogears Perfect works. It explains in DETAIL everything that you should know.

As for Krelian

Spoiler

Krelian first was the leader of Nisan and was originally sent to kill Sophia. but of course he never did it This is all explained in disc 2 by the way. After Sophia sacrificed herself to end the war that was causing so much chaos, it was then where Krelian met Emperor Cain. Remember, Krelian was so obsessed with creating the true god himself that he learned nanotechnology and as a result revived the Elders into a databank. Melchior should ring a bell to you. Since Krelian was so powerful and feared, he became the true leader of Solaris about five years later. You do not find this out till much later in the game. Krelian explains why he joined Solaris. It is kind of like Wilhelm in Xenosaga if you understand. The Gazel ministry are betrayed by Krelian MUCH LATER in the game and then he has no need left for Solaris, stating that, Gazel will never become God. Only Humans can entrust themselves to God. Humans were all pieces to serve god. The only way to break fate is to kill god, which Krelian explains near the end. If you recall, Krelian in flashbacks is seen with blue hair for his Nisan/shevat look and Blonde for Solaris. It is never explained why his hair changed, and that is probably the only thing that is not explained clearly. To summarize: Krelian gets obsessed with creating God once Sophia sacrifices herself, so he joins under the ranks of Solaris 5 years after the war. Krelian rose through the ranks extremely fast and even created Ramsus to kill the leader of Solaris/Gazel the first human: Cain. Krelian causes all the chaos. In a way, I compare him to Wilhelm because they are exactly the same and want the same thing.

I assume near the end you were so confused by

Spoiler

Miang? No this was not a pointless plot device. Read perfect works because it explains every single thing you question. Same with Lacan, Kim and Id. I think ALL that was explained in the game near the end. Most of it was cleared up in perfect works though.

 

[atrophy]

I remember this game was $80 when I got it from Gamestop as a child. I couldn't really appreciate it back then, but it was a phenomenal game. One of the absolute best RPGs I've ever played. The storytelling itself was a little above average, but the story was great.

The gameplay was awesome as well. One of my favorite combat systems.

 

[Red Wizard]

Wrong? I am NEVER wrong.

First of all, I can't think of a single plot device they DIDN'T throw into Xenogears. It's been about 10 years since I played through the game so my memory is a little fuzzy.... I'm going to have to play through the game again to get some specific examples of where things were mentioned, but never explained. After about the 5th or 6th time you see Krelian talking to those red and blue heads (I forget off hand who they were) talking to each other about things only they knew, with nothing being explained so the player can begin to take some kind of interest in what they're saying, a lot of people just stopped caring what was said. The player, a lot of times, felt excluded from the story, not drawn in. Also, please try to tell me ONE plot device Square didn't throw into Xenogears.

Also, not many people I know of who played Xenogears wanted to seek out Perfect Works.... The game should be more or less self contained, with the book being there for those who wanted more info about the characters.... NOT to have to have it to explain things in the game. Why can't the game just explain the vital parts and leave Perfect Works for people who simply want to know more about the world? The Miang thing didn't confuse me, btw. I kinda got the jist of that... or at least all I felt I should know.

Now, don't get me wrong, I DID enjoy Xenogears and thought it had potential to be the best game ever made. I liked the fighting with gears, and it had some great characters, awesome music, and I really digged the battle system. I just think the story felt like they just tried too hard to get in everything they wanted to do... I'd love to see a remake, with the story more refined, the second disc finished, and keep in the awesome settings, characters, and music.

Oh and by the way, since the 10 hours of text in disc 2 DID make it to the final game, it DOES get to count against it.

 

[Rey]

Wrong? I am NEVER wrong.

First of all, I can't think of a single plot device they DIDN'T throw into Xenogears. It's been about 10 years since I played through the game so my memory is a little fuzzy.... I'm going to have to play through the game again to get some specific examples of where things were mentioned, but never explained. After about the 5th or 6th time you see Krelian talking to those red and blue heads (I forget off hand who they were) talking to each other about things only they knew, with nothing being explained so the player can begin to take some kind of interest in what they're saying, a lot of people just stopped caring what was said. The player, a lot of times, felt excluded from the story, not drawn in. Also, please try to tell me ONE plot device Square didn't throw into Xenogears.

Also, not many people I know of who played Xenogears wanted to seek out Perfect Works.... The game should be more or less self contained, with the book being there for those who wanted more info about the characters.... NOT to have to have it to explain things in the game. Why can't the game just explain the vital parts and leave Perfect Works for people who simply want to know more about the world? The Miang thing didn't confuse me, btw. I kinda got the jist of that... or at least all I felt I should know.

Now, don't get me wrong, I DID enjoy Xenogears and thought it had potential to be the best game ever made. I liked the fighting with gears, and it had some great characters, awesome music, and I really digged the battle system. I just think the story felt like they just tried too hard to get in everything they wanted to do... I'd love to see a remake, with the story more refined, the second disc finished, and keep in the awesome settings, characters, and music.

Oh and by the way, since the 10 hours of text in disc 2 DID make it to the final game, it DOES get to count against it.

But you are! I am just going to stop you for a moment here. You say the player is limited on information? You say the player does not know what they are on about. Is that not the POINT? Xeno is known for suspense... and always has been like this. It would be so boring if it was just thrown in your face. Also no, I did not stop caring. That is just you. The game wants you to keep guessing what will happen just like Xenosaga and even Xenoblade. They do not become obvious right away. Multiple villains are introduced before you see the "big bad"

Seeking out perfect works is not just to know of the characters. The plot is all explained in game mostly and CLEARED up in perfect works. It is an amazing thing to have and I highly recommend you take a look at it. You should pay attention to the flash back scene in disc 2. It is very very important and clears up a lot of things. In fact disc 2 was pretty much made to explain what questions you had for disc 1. It is to the point and gives the right information. Well you might be lost a bit. Perfect works was not created right away..... it was created and published in 2000. The book was created to clear up the previous episodes as Xenogears is episode V as it says in the credits. Xenogears was episode V in the xeno timeline whilst Xenosaga was supposed to be a re imagining/prequel and span 6 episodes but was sadly cut down to 3. Perfect works is a go to guide if you are confused and do not understand some key figures.

The game DOES EXPLAIN the VITAL PARTS!!!! The last 25 hours of the game is where you need to make sure it is quiet and pay attention. Actually... the whole game is like that. Perhaps since it was text, you did not bother caring and if it were voiced it would be much easier for you to get it.

Indeed, that is what I was suggesting. The story is already top notch, but if they were to add the parts in disc 2 where characters are just talking as gameplay it would be much better. There is something we agree on.

 

[SiderealPassing]

But you are! I am just going to stop you for a moment here. You say the player is limited on information? You say the player does not know what they are on about. Is that not the POINT? Xeno is known for suspense... and always has been like this. It would be so boring if it was just thrown in your face. Also no, I did not stop caring. That is just you. The game wants you to keep guessing what will happen just like Xenosaga and even Xenoblade. They do not become obvious right away. Multiple villains are introduced before you see the "big bad"

Seeking out perfect works is not just to know of the characters. The plot is all explained in game mostly and CLEARED up in perfect works. It is an amazing thing to have and I highly recommend you take a look at it. You should pay attention to the flash back scene in disc 2. It is very very important and clears up a lot of things. In fact disc 2 was pretty much made to explain what questions you had for disc 1. It is to the point and gives the right information. Well you might be lost a bit. Perfect works was not created right away..... it was created and published in 2000. The book was created to clear up the previous episodes as Xenogears is episode V as it says in the credits. Xenogears was episode V in the xeno timeline whilst Xenosaga was supposed to be a re imagining/prequel and span 6 episodes but was sadly cut down to 3. Perfect works is a go to guide if you are confused and do not understand some key figures.

The game DOES EXPLAIN the VITAL PARTS!!!! The last 25 hours of the game is where you need to make sure it is quiet and pay attention. Actually... the whole game is like that. Perhaps since it was text, you did not bother caring and if it were voiced it would be much easier for you to get it.

Indeed, that is what I was suggesting. The story is already top notch, but if they were to add the parts in disc 2 where characters are just talking as gameplay it would be much better. There is something we agree on.

Don't you think it's fair to say that disc 2 didn't do enough of a job of clearing up the plot? The game should have been longer. Plain and simple. It really does look like they crammed a bunch of plot into the second disc leaving a lot of questions open to interpretation (which can sometimes be good but not as much as they seemed to do in this case). I know I created this thread and I still think Xenogears is an amazing game but it's ok to admit that it's flawed.

I'm pretty sure the developers originally intended for the game to be 4 discs long but had to cut it down to 2 due to budget constraints and time.

 

[Rey]

Don't you think it's fair to say that disc 2 didn't do enough of a job of clearing up the plot? The game should have been longer. Plain and simple. It really does look like they crammed a bunch of plot into the second disc leaving a lot of questions open to interpretation (which can sometimes be good but not as much as they seemed to do in this case). I know I created this thread and I still think Xenogears is an amazing game but it's ok to admit that it's flawed.

I'm pretty sure the developers originally intended for the game to be 4 discs long but had to cut it down to 2 due to budget constraints and time.

No.... Disc 2 did a fantastic job at clearing the plot. The game was already ridiculously long. Lots of questions? Not really. I understood everything. Just need to pay attention. It uses lots of terms just like any Xeno game. No, there is no EVIDENCE that they rushed it. The only thing they scrapped were a few areas and like two omnigears. This was found by hacking the game. 4 discs? What! Where do you see this? I have heard nothing of the sort.

I will repeat. There is no evidence! All they did was clear up the story instead of the originally intended gameplay during disc 2. They though that the story needed to be cleared up and to the point. It would have easily went over 100 hours if disc 2 was the length of disc 1.

 

[SiderealPassing]

I understood the gist of what was happening in the plot just fine but the second disc doesn't give you a chance to stop and think about what you just learned. Like I said, it feels crammed.

I've heard from tons of people that the game was in fact unfinished due to time constraints and lack of budget. It could be just a rumor I guess and I've never bothered to look for official sources that say that but it wouldn't surprise me given the nature of the second disc.

 

[Rey]

^

Not even at all. If you really feel that way then I suppose you did not even pay much attention in the first place. If you want to stop and think about what was learned there are always save points which are moments of respite pretty much.

No there is no evidence at all. Tetsuya Takahashi would have set a lot on the matter if there was "evidence" Stop believing what people told you because it is not true and you will never know in the first place anyway.

I will not repeat myself. Only a few areas were scrapped and they were meant to be in the gameplay of disc 2 at first. They took a shift and thought story was more important.

End of.

 

[SiderealPassing]

Well it frankly doesn't matter if there is no actual concrete evidence of the second disc being rushed since it still looks that way to me and many other gamers. Also, the second disc isn't the only shortcoming of the game. As (I think) I said before, some of the characters are a little weak. I find Fei to be wholly uninteresting and he seems to be lazily developed. I had similar problems with Billy, Emeralda, and Rico.

Either way, you're taking me too literally. I still consider it to be the second best RPG I've ever played. There are many flaws with Final Fantasy VII that I could point out but that still doesn't change my opinion that it's the greatest game of all time. A perfect game doesn't really exist.

That being said, I suppose I should talk a bit about some of the game's strengths...

Citan, Elly, and Bart are all fantastic and very likable characters.

The game has great suspense, especially the scenes with the Gazel Ministry.

The battle system is my overall favorite of any RPG. It's extremely fun and engaging and I'll never quite understand people's complaints with it.

The game has a modest level of difficulty. There are definitely some harder sections but the game isn't frustratingly challenging.

The music is absolutely mind-blowing and if the selection was larger, it would probably be my favorite game soundtrack.

...and probably tons of other things I forgot to mention.

 

[Rey]

Well it frankly doesn't matter if there is no actual concrete evidence of the second disc being rushed since it still looks that way to me and many other gamers.

You're taking me too literally. I still consider it to be the second best RPG I've ever played. I'm simply arguing that it could have been better.

Confused on why you double posted. I am sure it could have been better but it is not lacking anything either.

Well it frankly doesn't matter if there is no actual concrete evidence of the second disc being rushed since it still looks that way to me and many other gamers. Also, the second disc isn't the only shortcoming of the game. As (I think) I said before, some of the characters are a little weak. I find Fei to be wholly uninteresting and he seems to be lazily developed. I had similar problems with Billy, Emeralda, and Rico.

Either way, you're taking me too literally. I still consider it to be the second best RPG I've ever played. There are many flaws with Final Fantasy VII that I could point out but that still doesn't change my opinion that it's the greatest game of all time. A perfect game doesn't really exist.

That being said, I suppose I should talk a bit about some of the game's strengths...

Citan, Elly, and Bart are all fantastic and very likable characters.

The game has great suspense, especially the scenes with the Gazel Ministry.

The battle system is my overall favorite of any RPG. It's extremely fun and engaging and I'll never quite understand people's complaints with it.

The game has a modest level of difficulty. There are definitely some harder sections but the game isn't frustratingly challenging.

The music is absolutely mind-blowing and if the selection was larger, it would probably be my favorite game soundtrack.

...and probably tons of other things I forgot to mention.

Yes it does matter if there is no concrete evidence because it leads to accusations by people like you. Accusations about disc 2 being rushed to be more precise. How is Fei underdeveloped/lazily developed? He is the main character. He has a lot of plot to him and he is one of the most important characters in the game. If you do not Fei, you probably do not even have Xenogears since he clearly leaves a huge effect on the story. You clearly seem to be forgetting this. Emeralda actually has some backstory to her if you bothered to even do the sidequest. The sidequest is canon btw as Emeralda is a

Spoiler

Adult in the ending.

Also Emeralda gets a lot stronger if you do the sidequest. Billy? How is he underdeveloped? I would like to know. He is actually a character who went through a lot and you no doubt will feel for him.

Spoiler

The scene with Stone did not make you feel for him?

Rico? I agree somewhat. He has no VA but I guess it is cool that he still appears in the CGI. Yes I wanted more backstory on him but I think there is enough. It is clear he wants to do nothing in his life but fight for Fei later in the game.

Spoiler

His bond with Hammer could have been shown more. I agree in some aspect. It was there though.

Your opinion is that VII is the best game of all time... then you contradict yourself and say a "greatest" game does not exist?

Also, Babel Tower wants to speak to you. The difficulty is not hard but that dungeon is so GODDAMN FRUSTRATING it is unbelievable. You can easily rage quit that dungeon. I think it took me 3+ hours and this was my 2nd time playing. First try it must have took me more. You cannot escape from the enemies and it is just so pissy.

Difficulty in general? It is quite hard if you are not prepared. I can think of one boss who kept destroying me all the time. Pretty sure you know who I am on about.

Gear battles tend to be easy most of the time.

Any Xeno game music is mind blowing!

Small of two pieces is such a beautiful song. I love it.

Yes.... any xeno game is know for suspense... really. That is why I love the games so much.

Honourable mention goes to the last dungeon. Do you love that godamn place? I wanted to pull my hair out at first.

 

[SiderealPassing]

Confused on why you double posted. I am sure it could have been better but it is not lacking anything either.

I didn't mean to. I was trying to edit my first post.

Yes it does matter if there is no concrete evidence because it leads to accusations by people like you. Accusations about disc 2 being rushed to be more precise.

The nature of the second disc is what leads to accusations, not whether or not it was actually rushed by the development team. The problem is that it feels rushed.

How is Fei underdeveloped/lazily developed? He is the main character. He has a lot of plot to him and he is one of the most important characters in the game. If you do not Fei, you probably do not even have Xenogears since he clearly leaves a huge effect on the story. You clearly seem to be forgetting this. Emeralda actually has some backstory to her if you bothered to even do the sidequest. The sidequest is canon btw as Emeralda is a

Spoiler

Adult in the ending.

Also Emeralda gets a lot stronger if you do the sidequest. Billy? How is he underdeveloped? I would like to know. He is actually a character who went through a lot and you no doubt will feel for him.

Spoiler

The scene with Stone did not make you feel for him?

Rico? I agree somewhat. He has no VA but I guess it is cool that he still appears in the CGI. Yes I wanted more backstory on him but I think there is enough. It is clear he wants to do nothing in his life but fight for Fei later in the game.

Spoiler

His bond with Hammer could have been shown more. I agree in some aspect. It was there though.

Well yeah, Fei's story is interesting but his personality is lacking. I also found it annoying that he went from not wanting to fight to wanting to fight in the time it takes for me to type this sentence. Other than that, I didn't feel like I knew him as a character.

I didn't mean to say that the other characters necessarily followed the same flaw as Fei but I think that is generally the case with Emeralda. Prior to the sidequest, there wasn't much depth to her character and her back-story only put a minor spin on things. As for Billy, I just thought that he was an annoying little brat. His character was decently developed.

Your opinion is that VII is the best game of all time... then you contradict yourself and say a "greatest" game does not exist?

Great does not mean perfect (and neither does greatest, necessarily). A game can be better than the rest and still be imperfect.

Also, Babel Tower wants to speak to you. The difficulty is not hard but that dungeon is so GODDAMN FRUSTRATING it is unbelievable. You can easily rage quit that dungeon. I think it took me 3+ hours and this was my 2nd time playing. First try it must have took me more. You cannot escape from the enemies and it is just so pissy.

I was just thinking about listing this as a flaw. The platforming in Xenogears is atrocious. That god damn rope must have taken me 50 tries to jump onto.

Difficulty in general? It is quite hard if you are not prepared. I can think of one boss who kept destroying me all the time. Pretty sure you know who I am on about.

A few bosses had me tearing my hair out but I think I know which one you're referring to. Are you talking about the boss towards the end of the first disc? That's really the only section in the game where I grinded a ton to beat.

Gear battles tend to be easy most of the time.

Don't agree. There were a few back-to-back boss fights that I found especially challenging.

Any Xeno game music is mind blowing!

Two of small pieces is such a beautiful song. I love it.

Yes.... any xeno game is know for suspense... really. That is why I love the games so much.

Speaking of which, I haven't played any of the Xeno games past Xenogears. How do they compare?

Honourable mention goes to the last dungeon. Do you love that godamn place? I wanted to pull my hair out at first.

If there's one thing I really like about the second disc, it's the final dungeon. That place was pretty obnoxiously confusing. I will say, though, that the last boss(es) were disappointingly easy.

 

[Rey]

Speaking of which, I haven't played any of the Xeno games past Xenogears. How do they compare?

They are really good and possibly as good as Xenogears. I love Xenosaga so much, but Xenoblade is also really fantastic. How do they compare? If you liked Xenogears then it is more then likely that you will love Xenosaga and Xenoblade. Xenoblade is not really a 100% Xeno game per se since it is really different compared to the previous entries but there are obvious connections. I figured them out very easily.

Things to note: Xenosaga Episode II has a complicated battle system and I do not know what Monolith Soft were up to when deciding to change the gameplay. I and III have good battle systems. II is still worth playing for the story though!

They were originally 6 episodes long but they just HAD to release episode II in Europe. I know right? They gave them the worst one and it sold badly which cancelled out the other 3 games. Instead, we got Xenosaga I and II remade on ds but that never came out of Japan. Many years later.. they made a completely new xeno entry called Xenoblade. It is fantastic in its own regard.

Xenosaga is a re imagining of Xenogears pretty much. A lot of fans like to call it the prequel. :dave:

 

[Luminaire]

I know that a lot of fans wanted it to be a prequel but it has been concluded that Xenosaga was a stand alone game that is not directly connected to Xenogears. Reimagining is exactly what it was. This comes directly from Takahashi himself. His quote can be cited if necessary. It is known that it is no more than a "spiritual successor" to XG. I myself racked my brain for so long trying to draw parallels and combed Perfect Works for any sign of a connection. What really got me was the appearance of Abel. Especially when Nephilim joins him. I just couldn't let it go for a while.

All of that being said. This game is my baby. It is my absolute favorite piece of fiction ever created, changed my perspective, and saved my life at a very hard time for me. I will always always consider it the very best RPG storyline ever. Period. Though I can see valid speculation about the games development being compromised due to the pacing and change in balance between gameplay and storytelling in the second disc, I still am of the opinion that the complexity and impact of it's story is unrivaled. In reference to it being almost as good as FFVII, your opinion while valid is not one that I share. I adore FFVII but in terms of originality in story, Xenogears is far more so than FFVII. The latter's theme had been told many times before in a different way whereas Xenogears is a compilation of themes and issues that were considered possibly too controversial to be released in the U.S. The ideas within were influenced by Freudian thought, Jungian Philosophy, and more. Topics that span religion, politics, psychology, and morality are just a few that are represented, picked apart, used, and questioned within it. The depth of this game is incredible and the brilliant music, character development, and great design (for the time) only help to boost the epic journey that you take while playing it.

I completely understand that this game wasn't for everyone and that games such as FFVII will always come first on personal and collective lists of "best games" for whatever reason, but to me the immense collection of so so so much under the surface, hard to swallow, meaty depth that reflects the issues we face in the real world, still exceeds their more basic platform of ideas. This game is a gem if you have the mind for it.