May 13, 2012, 12:52 AM
Richard please read my statement carefully
You can judge a gay person, but you can't judge a person FOR being gay. Well you physically can, but you should not. You can judge someone's taste in music, but you shouldn't. Is that clear now?
Oh that is a great point! When did you decide to be a heterosexual? Also when did they discover the straight gene? There must be one if there is a theoretical gay gene
Thanks to Ari
May 13, 2012, 1:11 AM
I don't mean to follow you from thread to thread as I imagine that's exactly what it looks like, but first off there's no proof that people are born with a sexual orientation and secondly, why doesn't Riddick have the right to judge someone for whatever he sees fit? Don't we as a society advocate freedom of thought if not freedom of speech? Why can't he decide what's right and wrong in his opinion? Surely by your own standards you've no right to dictate to him what he should and shouldn't judge? Regardless of whether you believe or it indeed is irrational?
Originally Posted by Frank Fontaine
May 13, 2012, 1:12 AM
1. Who said I was pretending? I was using the most basic judgemental trait as an example. There are hundreds of ways for someone to judge a gay person. But my point still stands that it's wrong
Originally Posted by Richard B Riddick
2. judging someone because of actions is something that humans do naturally. It's a defence mechanism. We judge people in order to keep us safe. We judge people we meet in order to create a opinion that will hopefully allow us to survive should they turn out to be a bad person. This judging is something so ingrained in us, it's been classified as "Acceptable"
However, The turning point is when you believe that judging is true. When you choose to believe the person you judged is a evil thing, It cannonballs into bigotry and lies. Of course your judgement might be right. But when you let it consume you to the point of putting down that person is when Society deems it "unacceptable"
When you judge someone based on something they told you. If your long time friend told you "I was in jail for a year for robbery" your perception of them is dented and your mind re-judges them. If you bolt away and discriminate against them because of it. judging enters the "Wrong" zone. If you don't and still remain friends with them. your mind has firmly cut a hole in your perception of your friend.. your Judgement of them has changed. This is wrong.
TL;DR Judging in a ingrained Defence Trait. It's used to protect you. but when you let it get out of hand and start hating people because of judgement. is when judging becomes worse. Judging people is not right in the first place. But when you let your minds inital Judgement consume you is when it passes into "Unacceptable" Territory.
May 13, 2012, 1:14 AM
He is welcome to his opinions, that is why I said he could but he should not. Someone could go out and shoot people if they wanted, they shouldn't but they could if they wanted. Someone could be a racist if they wanted, I think they shouldn't but that is their call. If someone has the right to say they think being gay is wrong, I have the right to say I think people who think like that are wrong and so on
As for biologically there is ongoing research into that. Which is showing dissimilarities between homo and heterosexuals involving hormones in the womb and some other things
Thanks to Ari
May 13, 2012, 2:04 AM
I agree that no stereotypes are alright to make. I think everyone should be judged by what they themselves do and not off of what a group does or did.. but stereotyping a gay person is the same as stereotyping any other group of people that are stereotyped or generalized every day. Like for instance, Christians. I've had people tell me that because I'm Christian that must mean I hate other religions, hate gays, etc etc. That's a stereotype. And I'm sorry to say it, I've seen quite a few people on the internet label Christians / religious people under those stereotypes.
Originally Posted by Insanity Wolf
Sooo if stereotyping a gay makes a person homophobic... what does stereotyping christians/religious people make them?
I only mention this because a lot of people nowadays claim to be against stereotypes and bigotry and all that jazz, but then they go around and stereotype and judge other people. It's really quite hypocritical, if I can be honest. And I think a lot of people nowadays just say they're against bigotry and stereotypes when it suits their case... which doesn't fix anything.
Anyway, I do consider public displays of make out scenes as gross--but that's for heterosexual couples as well. And no I'm not talking about people holding hands or pecking each other on the lips. If I see ANYONE making out and grabbing at eachother I'm gonna tell them to get a effing room. Their sexual orientation is not a factor, it's how much tongue I can see.
That said, I think when people get angry that gays are holding hands in public or adopting children--I do think that's a form of hate towards homosexuals. & My advice to the person getting pissed off that a kid is being adopted into a loving and stable family, even if they're gay is--GET OVER IT. It's no one's business what gays do and whether or not they want to adopt.
I say, if they want kids and are able to take care of them, more power to 'em. I'd be happy to know a lonely kid in some adoption center finally gets to say "I love you dad/I love you mom" to two loving parents. Whether or not they're the same sex doesn't matter as long as they'll love and appreciate the child they're adopting. And they can go right ahead and kiss/cuddle in public, too... as long as a couple doesn't start to grope each other or something I'm good with any public affection (homo or hetero).
P.S. Homophobia implies that a person is afraid of homosexuals. You can dislike seeing they're actions and not be afraid of them. They should be labeled bigots not homophobes...
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May 13, 2012, 2:55 AM
1. If you can't judge a gay person because they can't help being gay, then why should it be allowable to judge a person who can't help their taste in music? What you're really trying to say is its ok to judge, but gays should be exempt from judgement & given special treatment as if they were the only ones on the planet who were treated unfairly, discriminated against or stereotyped in a negative light.
Originally Posted by Frank Fontaine
I would compare it to eras when people said God and religion should be considered above criticism. Its a result of authoritarianism and people attempting to elevate their beliefs to a level above question moreso than anything else. History shows that type of mentality never yields positive results.
2. Like I said, don't change the subject. Whether its a choice or not has nothing to do with it.
1. What's 'wrong' about it.
Originally Posted by Mockingjay
2. If judging is natural why should gays not be judged?
May 13, 2012, 3:18 AM
As I have stated before, While Judging is a natural reaction when seeing something it is still unsavory to act upon impulse and Discriminate when faced with a bad first impression. You shouldn't treat them like dirt just because their first meeting is awkward.
Judging people because their gay is judging a group.If your judgement of this Gay person is a arrogant perverted Jerkass then your will judge all other gay people you meet as perverts. This is why judging the lifestyle of being gay is wrong. Your placing a stereotype on hundreds of people. Lableing them all as pervs. This is a mindset that spreads and causes harm to the Gay people themselves. They have a sterotype of being perverts? Well homophobes will terroize them based on that supersition.
Judging A Homosexual based on themself and NOT based on their sexual lifestyle is also wrong. Your judgement may leak out or spread and then some people will treat that person like dirt because you judged them wrongly. Your judgement could cause someone to cut themselves all because you acted on your judgement and (Example) called that teen with a rape baby a prostitute.
Yes Judging is a natural reaction. but you don't have to listen too it. You shouldn't judge anyone based on anything. The domino effect caused from your judgements can literally kill people. Half of Suicides are caused be people bullying and discriminated based on their judgements.
May 13, 2012, 11:00 AM
I see you must be engaging in an overt attempt to wind me up, or perhaps you are not reading peoples' posts again. Nonetheless I am a kind old soul, and will explain one last time.
Originally Posted by Richard B Riddick
You can, but you should not judge someone FOR being gay. You can but should NOT judge someone's taste in music. Both things can but should not be judged. I cannot say it with any more clarity than that. I even highlighted the sections you seem to be having trouble with. If you misunderstand me again I can only assume it is willful ignorance.
I agree with you here, nothing in the world is above question. Not all questions are equally valid though, or all actions/people/events open to the same level of criticsim. This is nothing to do with the topic at hand though.
As for your second part, I was replying to you calling it a choice and bringing up the genetic element of it. Perhaps you should prevent yourself from changing the subject.
Thanks to Ari
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May 13, 2012, 1:34 PM
People are so hypocritical. Taboo on certain objects humans like to select. So as long a group of people have certain traits its ok. Cause more than just 1 individual stands stronger. Thats obvious.
You cant judge one group and the other not.
Judging other ppl for their religion but another group you disregard.
But thts not the case in most situations.
Most atheists supports homosexuals and on the other hand they judge those with religion. Debating about these subjects shouldnt even exist then.
Humans are freeking hypocritical. Pointing fingers. Saying that certain ppl are homophobic when thy really not or not completely is the same thing thy cant do to homosexuals. Judging and categorizing.
I get Richards point, basically humankind choose wether its out of line cause it could cause genocide etc. Volience.
What about ppl tht believe in the devil? Arent they judged? Believers judge atheists not?
Cults? We all judge stop being so hypocritical!!!!
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May 13, 2012, 1:40 PM
This thread is about homophobia not choice. You have the freedom to believe whatever you want, you do not have the freedom to choose who you love. All things can be judged, my point is that not all things should be. We can choose what we judge someone on, you can choose any criterion to estimate their worth. Their words, their actions, their gender, their orientation, their intellect, their beliefs, their beauty, anything at all. Whether you choose to judge someone on their biological preferences or on their intellectual conclusions, that is your perogative. Judging someone on something they have chosen however, is not the same as judging a person on something which they have no control over.
Also, dictionary definitions differ. From dictionary.com
[hoh-muh-foh-bee-uh] Show IPA
unreasoning fear of or antipathy toward homosexuals and homosexuality
Antipathy means aversion to or repugnance of. So calling all gay people sissies would come under that in my estimation
Last edited by Thanos; May 13, 2012 at 1:54 PM.
Thanks to Ari