Why are you an atheist or agnostic?

[Shu]

So I went to my Secular Group tonight and we are getting a few folks together to talk to religious deists and it inspired the same question.

Why exactly are you an atheist and when did you figure out you were?

I am an agnostic. I don't exactly care anymore, and the reason is, if there is a god, then it doesn't have a conscious and is like a "cell". It created it all, and left .. and that's that and maybe even died or evolved into some other organism. I don't believe in infinity so that's why I believe something created it all.. cause and effect. Infinity is a laugh. The reason I say that, is because I believe there is an end to "existence as I know it."

I don't believe in Jesus Chris, Allah, the Hebrew God, or anything that has a monotheist personality.

Why? Faith, Hope and Love are man made inventions. We choose to get along, because either we are apathetic or because we were lead to believe there is something at the end of the tunnel.

I honestly think when it all boils down though, we are all individualists trying to find some type of synergy. Some type of clay to put us all back together. Some type of thing that we can all unite in. That's what most of the times Christianity and groups like it are for. Some place where we can all validate a belief due to something that happened 2000 years ago.

I don't think everything on earth happened 2000,3000 years ago.. I believe we are small minded to even phathom that. Christianity sometimes seem so desperate to defend itself, when sometimes, all I do is ask a simple question like..

What would I tell you if Jeff Dahmer or Hitler went to Heaven? They both believed in Jesus, so according to the good book, they are now in Heaven. It's a contradiction if you say otherwise.

Me, I think there is nothing at the end of the rainbow. What we have is what we have. Unfortunately some were born lucky, and through wisdom, some get unluckier throughout life. Though by putting a face or a belief behind why something happened, is a little bit of a scape goat.

It destroys my belief doctrine in Humanitarianism and Naturalism. I believe men and women can eventually work together as long as they are not too pig headed about opinions. If people are willing to work with different Faiths and accept that people will always make up deities in order to "fill the void", then we might get along on this small rock we call Earth.

Some times it's just something to do.. Sometimes it's just something people unify in. Sometimes it's just something to work towards. A true Christian, doesn't scare me..

A Christian who tries to indoctrinate religion in law/war scares the shit out of me. Same thing with Islamic beliefs as well. If one tries to say, you can't do something, due to it's in the bible.. that scares me too.

Not everything in the Bible/Torah/Qur'an is Moral/Ethical. So it really stomps out belief overall.

[moogling]

"When you’re an atheist, it’s sometimes hard not to adopt an anti-theistic sentiment. You realize a lot of the injustices and absurdities around you — anti-gay laws, anti-abortion laws, anti-scientific attitudes — are all largely influenced by the belief of an invisible being sitting in the sky that apparently sent a book down 2000 years ago telling you how to live your life. And you can’t help but be pissed off at the sheer stupidity of it all."

"I challenge you to find one good or noble thing which cannot be accomplished without religion. It is impossible. You cannot do it."

"Not only are we in the universe, the universe is in us. I don't know of any deeper spiritual feeling than what that brings upon me."

"God is the first and most effective terrorist in the universe. He uses terror and promises of terror to subdue his slaves into eternal submission."

"Science has done more for the development of western civilization in one hundred years than Christianity did in eighteen hundred years."

"I am a creationist. God was created by man." (that one's more humorous than intellectual. but still.)


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I could go on for days. The main reason behind why I am an atheist is because knowing that I will cease to exist completely is much more comforting than the idea of essentially sitting at church for the rest of eternity. I know what not existing is like. I didn't for billions of years. The least I can do is enjoy my life while it lasts, and I don't intend to waste that time serving someone who doesn't exist. Everything about religion disgusts me.

Also: I don't like picking and choosing. Pretty sure you can infer what I mean from that term.

Also Part II: Rick Perry and Rick Santorum.



Well, this is more like why I am not Christian or Catholic. In short, I don't believe any religion mainly because appointing human-like deities to any element of nature or claiming they made the universe is absurd. We're not very different from any other organism on the planet. And that's just this planet, in this galaxy. And since there is the possibility of something creating the universe, it certainly wouldn't have been a human

[Fleur]

Actually, whether or not Hitler was that much of a genuine religious person as he publicly claimed he was when it came to positive Christianity is kind of disputed still, at least it was the last time I checked. I personally suspect he actually became as secular as he claimed the Bolsheviks were by the 1940s. Plus he would have said anything nice about the church to keep that lot on his side and avoid any form of factionalism in the Third Reich - until they started questioning the euthanasia programme for instance, but I digress.

I've been an agnostic for probably as long as I can remember. I know my Catholic grandparents were probably a little taken aback by this to begin with (particularly my grandmother, who is half-Austrian), and they were the ones who pushed my parents to send me to a Catholic high school. I belonged in the school choir then, and I did actually enjoy myself quite immensely, but unlike a lot of my peers there, I clearly felt detached and far-flung from all this. I enjoyed being part of the choir and singing what was in front of me, but the lyrics meant very little to me, as did the excessively long sermons the chaplain would give to us at least three times a week.

I'll keep it simple. I don't believe in an all-loving deity out there simply because I see no rational evidence to believe He exists out there. I don't believe there is anything all-loving out there, and if there is, it is conveniently not His fault that the world is still so screwed up and that non-believers are to be permanently cast into burning flames! I feel so assured knowing that He's up there loving us now, mhm. At the same time, I don't believe we can know. Who knows, perhaps there is a supernatural force at work that we do not, and cannot hope to comprehend. Would I love to know all the secrets? Who doesn't? But I've virtually no hope of attaining these kind of answers. But I am sure that if we do, we won't find a benevolent and omniscient man lurking eternally up there.

At the same time, I strongly see the Bible as being an anachronism. Indeed, I will not deny that it has carried over timeless virtues that should be encompassed for any civilised society. But it won't sway me from the belief in that the Bible is chauvinistic and can barely apply to our modern world. You can try and argue that it can be interpreted in a way that correlates and suits with our world more relevantly and that it isn't meant to be taken word for word (latter point is no news to me, because we've clearly moved beyond from the Dark Ages...), but for instance:

Corinthians 14:34-35

"As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church."

Oh yes, very progressive. I've seen people defend this and look at the context at which this was written. I respect what they're saying, but to me, this sounds - and will always sound - incredibly chauvinistic and therefore virtually impossible for me to want to wholeheartedly subscribe to.

...plus you're kind of screwed if you're not married then. xD

[Thanos]

People seem to be talking about why they do not like religion, rather than why they don't believe in a God.

I don't believe in any of the religious Gods because there is absolutely no evidence for them, bar some ancient books. Considering all those ancient books are equally valid, I don't see the point in choosing one.

The Einsteinian God is the idea that there's a creator who set up the laws of physics, pressed play at the dawn of existence, then fucked off. It has much more merit than some personal god who listens to your little prayers and frets over your sins, but it's still a claim without evidence.

Gnostic means to be certain, Agnostic means to be uncertain

Theism is the belief in a God, atheism is the lack of belief in a God

A Gnostic theist believes there is undoubtedly a god

An agnostic theist believes there is a God, but does not know for sure there is one

An agnostic atheist does not believe there is a God, but does not know 100% that there isn't one

A Gnostic atheist thinks that there is definitely no God

I am an agnostic atheist because though I do not think there's a God, it has not been proven there isn't one regardless of his or her absenteeism

[George Costanza]

What would I tell you if Jeff Dahmer or Hitler went to Heaven? They both believed in Jesus, so according to the good book, they are now in Heaven. It's a contradiction if you say otherwise.

I think that's a particularly weak argument for why someone is an atheist or an agnostic. If you are an agnostic or an atheist you don't believe in Heaven therefore it's irrelevant.
Also off topic but slightly relevant, the arguments people have about the merits of Religion or Atheism and they bring up the point that Stalin was an atheist, so atheists are shithouses or Pol Pot was a Buddhist so religious people are cunts is even weaker. Stalin didn't murder millions of people because he was an atheist so the fact that he was an atheist is irrelevant, and the same is true of Pol Pot or just about any killer you care to mention.

I'd describe myself as an agnostic because I don't care at all. God or even the question of god's existence is something I never think about, the only time I come close to thinking about it is when I say 'Jesus fucking Christ' normally because someone has done something very stupid.
Also because I think atheists are often as stupid and ignorant as the religious people they try to demonise.

[Squid]

I am an atheist because I find it completely and utterly delusional to believe in an all mighty man in the sky. I am not quite sure I believe in the big bang either but in my head that makes a little more sense than Jesus and God.

I also find it annoying and unsettling that this all mighty being is sitting up there wherever the fuck he is mean to be judging my every move and if i do not live up to his expectations in every little way he will smite me and send me to Hell.
I don't like that some God is commanding love and loyalty when he created diseases and natural disasters and allows children to starve because of stupid things like adam and eve eating the apple when told not to. He sure does hold a grudge and enjoys punishing people
So I guess that's another reason I don't believe in a God. Because if he is real he's one incredibly mighty cunt.

I don't really ever think about religion or why we're here or anything like that ever unless it is brought up like in this thread or something. I find that it's a bit of a waste of time worrying about something like that.

I'll also not judge another person if they are religious unless they're shoving it down my throat, but I do find it very hard to understand how they can believe in the strange things religion teaches them and why they bother to waste their life trying to please someone no one is even sure exists.

Hrm hopefully that made sense

[Richard B Riddick]

A Christian who tries to indoctrinate religion in law/war scares the shit out of me. Same thing with Islamic beliefs as well. If one tries to say, you can't do something, due to it's in the bible.. that scares me too.

I would like to point out something.

The main reason scientists aren't open minded towards the possibility of the universe being designed has to do with atheists indoctrinating atheism into science. The materialist explanation is counter intuitive and less simplistic than the creationist version.

Atheists would indoctrinate their beliefs into law/war/science and are prone towards twisting facts and statistics towards suiting their own pre-conceived notions as much as the religious right.

The geneticist and evolutionary biologist Richard Lewontin is well known for saying...

‘We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism.

It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is an absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door.

-Richard Lewontin

I give him credit for honesty -- something that is extremely lacking in these times.

[Shu]

Atheists would indoctrinate their beliefs into law/war/science and are prone towards twisting facts and statistics towards suiting their own pre-conceived notions as much as the religious right.

I disagree. Atheism is not worshiped nor is it a religion. It almost is hardly a belief system, it's just giving it a word by saying.. you either don't give a damn, or you believe that the notion that there ever was a god is complete bollocks.

No one goes to churches/mosques to worship atheism. The only time atheists truly have problems with religious people are when rights are encroached or that creationism is considered valid and evolution is completely thrown out the window. That's when secular movements take place.

Science and Math can only be lied about, not twisted. There are hypothesis's but those are "educated" guesses.

It's when complete ignorance and closed mindedness occurs that religion becomes a threat. The words "Pray for you" are thrown around way too loosely in society. If someone tells me that, I just say.. "No disrespect, but please don't waste your breath."

Rampant intellectual debates are quite a bit more favorable than fanatical religious debates. By trying to support facts that happened merely over 2000 years ago, it's not solving anything. Secularism is dealing with the here and now.

[MC Clapyohandz]

The main reason scientists aren't open minded towards the possibility of the universe being designed has to do with atheists indoctrinating atheism into science. The materialist explanation is counter intuitive and less simplistic than the creationist version.

You're building this argument on a false premise. Scientists are, in fact, open to the possibility of the universe having been created by a deity. If you can objectively prove that to be a fact, I doubt you'd have a scientist in the world who would fail to agree with your findings. The problem lies in the fact that "proving God" (and therefore proving Creationism, because the ideology relies on there being a deity) is currently impossible. Thus, scientists are of the idea that Creationism is a creation myth like the hundreds or thousands of other creation myths in the world.

Also, with the indoctrination malarkey, you're creating a chicken or the egg argument with it. You seem to be saying that atheism/atheists essentially created the Big Bang Theory, but it could be just as easily stated that the Big Bang Theory created atheists. (No Creation myth = devaluation of the religious text = weakened belief in religion.)

Also also, that entire indoctrination crap is ... well, crap, considering that the Big Bang Theory was first brought forth by a Belgian Catholic priest (and physicist; he was both adherent and scientist, at the same time). So apparently it wasn't atheists indoctrinating anything into science. It was a scientist making observations based on science.

===============

I am an agnostic. Mainly because I don't know anything. There could be a deity, there could not be. Moreover, does it really matter? Does it affect my daily life personally? If it does, I haven't noticed, so if there is a deity s/he/it's either not that interested in me, or taking a couple decades off. So..... pending a blood test....... whatever.

[Thanos]

Sometimes I wish I was a believer in God though, I really don't want to die and disappear into nothing. I can see why it's much nicer to have faith that there is more beyond this, not just being eaten by worms. Fuck worms