Why does everybody have to bash XIII???

[Lord_Jaroh]

Well, I just finished the game.

What complete and utter shit. There is nothing redeeming about the game at all, from the characters to the story to the design to the battle system. Nothing about this game was good.

If this is what Square has descended to, I would rather them close up shop than continue on down their current path. My god...I cannot understand how this game actually made it to production. If I were involved in it I would be embarrassed to have my name attached to the project!

Hopefully they can learn from their mistakes because I can't imagine it getting any worse...

[JasonsBasement]

First off - I enjoyed FFXIII. I didn't say like.

Before I go off into this I would also like to clear a few things up:
"FFXIII doesn't contain any of the elements of other Final Fantasy games"
- You are right - They could just make the same game over and over again and people would be just as pissed because they just keep copying the same thing over and over. Never mind that it has summons, magic, weapons, armor, items, chocobos, a customizable party and different jobs.
"There are no towns/exploration or open world"
- There are towns - your characters just don't go into them because they are RUNNING FROM THE LAW. The characters in the game are outlaws, they wouldn't just pop into a town and start talking to everyone. Exploration - I'll give you the fact that there is a lot less of it, but I feel like they just stripped out the mindless walking around. When I think back to older Final Fantasy titles I think about walking all around a giant world map, only to find there is nothing to be found. There are plenty of side areas - sadly they are all in Chapter 11 and beyond. Lastly - Open world? There is only ONE Final Fantasy game that fits the 'open world' genre - FFXII. All other Final Fantasy games are linear, they just disguise it.

Onto the game -
What I hate:
The Crystarium
- I was excited for it - I thought it was going to be similar to FFX. It's not.
Changing characters every 5 minutes in the first 10 chapters
- Luckily, everyone gains EXP.
Having my hand held for the first 25 hours of game play
- This gets better on repeated playthroughs cause you just skip tutorials.

What I love:
The Paradigm System
- This is how you control more than one character - It's not about assigning each command for each character then waiting to see what the enemy does. You have to look at your characters and stack them appropriately so that you can cycle through Paradigms to be successful.
The World
- Two different planets? Sci-Fi and swords? Crazy huge wild animals? This world was fantastic - I loved it.
Lightning
- She is bad ass. All Cloud fanboys should love her.
Grinding
- Isn't this what half of Final Fantasy is? Grinding monsters for items/advancements. I still play this game trying to build items to try out different Synergist Abilities.

Why do people bash it?
It was way to straight forward for people. I agree it was a bit for me too - but worst piece of shit ever? Comeon! Just get to chapter 10 as fast as you can and enjoy the rest of the game.

[Sheechiibii]

Just get to chapter 10 as fast as you can and enjoy the rest of the game.

Just had to say - get to chapter 10 and enjoy the rest of the game? There are only 13 chapters, that's not saying very much for how much enjoyment you can get out of the game if you've to endure the first 9 chapters to get anything worth-while.

I liked your post though for once I agreed a lot with someone sticking up for XIII - personally I hated pretty much everything in the game, but you made a lot of fair points, not that it really makes the game any better, but it makes me have hope for the future ff games.

Xx..xX

[klauss]

Personally, I didn't like the characters in the game. They really lacked interesting personalities, but yeah, I don't see how the linearity of the game really affected the experience of the overall gameplay. I guess, because of the how it failed to meet the audiences' expectations, the linearity of the game, is just something to pick out on, in addition to all the other disappointments in the game. Nevertheless, I still love the game. I don't know what it is. It's probably the atmosphere of the game, the product of the combination of a an outstanding soundtrack and spectacular visuals, is probably the only thing that draws me to the game.

[john13081980]

i don't have a clue why people slate ff13 and ff13-2 they are fun to play i showed ff13-2 to my mate he when out and brought it that day i'm know played ff13 through 4 times not bord with it and im know playing 13-2 for the 3rd time yes it would have been nice if there had been more levels but apart from that what's the problem it fun. why say that it nothing like any of the ff games if it was people whould be saying that they never changed the game. if you like playing the other game if it ff1 or ff10 then play them and stop going on about it.

[Sheechiibii]

Personally, I didn't like the characters in the game. They really lacked interesting personalities, but yeah, I don't see how the linearity of the game really affected the experience of the overall gameplay. I guess, because of the how it failed to meet the audiences' expectations, the linearity of the game, is just something to pick out on, in addition to all the other disappointments in the game. Nevertheless, I still love the game. I don't know what it is. It's probably the atmosphere of the game, the product of the combination of a an outstanding soundtrack and spectacular visuals, is probably the only thing that draws me to the game.

For me the linearity was just one more dissapointment along with pretty much everything else. If it had been the only thing wrong I wouldn't mind, but it wasn't, it was everything. I agree with you about the characters but I also didn't like that there was no world, there were no npcs, there was no choice in character development, even the weapon system was heavily flawed, the battle system I hated, the summons were ridiculously hard to get and pretty much useless in battle, the limited sidequests and how they were all just fighting monsters, how there were so little variation in the monsters. Then I didn't like the linearity or the character development or the story.

So I do complain about the linearity, but if the game was good apart from that I wouldn't complain about it. The linearity is bad because it takes all sense of adventure away, you can't go hunting for treasure or anything like that, and because it means there's no sense of world. People say that it makes sense because they're known across the world as being l'cie and so have to run. However, look at FFX, half way through the game you're being hunted as criminals and known throughout Spira, yet you can still go anywhere you want, sure sometimes you have to fight people but that's fine, you've still got a world to explore. It's an excuse. There felt like there was no world in XIII because it was all corridors, the only open world you saw was basically like pretty background you could never reach.

[Sheechiibii]

And I cant play Lightning Returns because then I would have to play the first two games as well.

They did say that LR could be played as a stand alone game. I didn't buy XIII-2 but I did play the demo. I just didn't want to play it though, mostly because it was a continuation of a story and characters that I didn't like and the demo didn't entice me. Hopefully LR really can be played as a stand alone game and then I might get it. Depends what further information comes out though. I was pretty dissapointed to find out that all the characters are still alive, I was hoping it would be just Lightning. It doesn't look like it will be very stand alone but we'll see I guess. Plus they've spoiled the ending already.

[Ohri-Jin]

Wow amazing arguments people from both fans and dislikers of FFXIII. Im just wondering so this is what SE got to endure, this feedback. Now did they implement these great suggestions in FFXIII-2? How many fans wanted a sequel anyway? And now FFXIII-2 was better but not perfect so Lightning Returns.

Seriously people this is exactly why I never played FFXIII. The chars alone sickens me never mind other aspects about the game. Thus I wont play the sequel either. And I cant play Lightning Returns because then I would have to play the first two games as well.

I didnt like FFXIII-2 demo, felt like a weak ass kingdom hearts copy cat.

If SE wants to go action rpg I vote they use kingdom hearts/dragon age/rogue Galaxy battlesystem more often.
Characters and story is my thing. Shit look at dragon age it had shitty ass graphics but shit it was such an epic game.






SE presented me two cupcakes -> a pink one with candy sparklings (ffxIII) and a chocolate brown fudge cookie dough one (Versus)

Sorry you can have the sweet glacy one, chocolate one is out of reach. Well I hate sugarcoated cupcakes, cause its filled with processed colours and too much sugar.

In my head I worded it way better. I might have failed a bit there but you catch my drift right?

[ultimadream]

I personally do not understand the hate for this game, While I admit it has flaws, it is no way near as bad as people have made out. I for one found the game exhilarating from start to finish.

PROS:
+ Characters with Charisma - This in itself is a miracle after the drab character's from Final Fantasy XII, the majority who had no motive or purpose to be within the story at all. I can not pin point anything remarkable in XII, While in XIII I can think of many moments which we're very emotive, I can't be the only one who wept during the conflict between Hope & Snow when it exploded at Palumporum.

+ A story that progressed - Once again, after Final Fantasy XII's slow progression of it's story XIII's frequent cutscenes was very refreshing. XII you would travel through landscapes/ temples from 5 - 10 hours with no progression in the story. Even when you entered a new town you would just go straight through it. While XIII had cutscenes every 30 minutes at least where the characters would talk to one another, which really built their characters.

+ Battle system - I have to say, I found XIII's battle system to be one of the most engaging in the series. Most people seem to miss the point of the Paradigm system. It's not so much focused on what attacks you use, it's more about having the right paradigm pack for the right moment. I found myself on guard every battle which is more than I can say for some previous FF's. Then of course you have the stagger system too, which was a really addictive system.

+ The Art Direction & Graphics - It has to be noted, I still think XIII is one of the best looking games this gen, the graphics were far better than even XIII-2. I really liked the sci-fi route of XIII's art design, but then I enjoyed VIII for the same reason. It was just visually striking.

CONS:

- Hiding the depth of the story in the Datalog - A lot of the details we're hidden in these datalogs, which made everything seem very vague, which is why it is hard to connect to XIII's story. Nothing about the God's is ever explained properly in the custscenes. I should not have to read up datalogs or novella's just to make up for a poor presentation of the story.

- Lack of a personal connection between the party and the antagonist - Like Vayne, Barthanderlus had no personal connection with any of the party, many of the best FF Villains have had such a connection to the lead character tend to be the most memorable (Cloud/Sephiroth, Tidus/Jetch etc.) XIII-2 did make up for this with Noel & Caius Which was one of the best features of the game.

- Battle system - While I liked it, there we're problems... When the party leader dies it's game over... even when another party member has revive! This was a big mistake solved once again in XIII-2.

- The Weapons system - It was just really plain and it required far too much time to gather all the times need for the upgrades.

As I have said before, I liked XIII while it is around the middle of my FF list, I still regard it as one of the best games I have played this gen. I think another reason for the hate is that they have lingered on XIII for so long now. One of the joys of Final Fantasy is that they're all different when a new Final Fantasy comes along it brings a new world along with it. Sequels do not offer this experience & While I generally enjoyed XIII-2 it was not up to the FF standard in my opinion.

[Sheechiibii]

I personally do not understand the hate for this game, While I admit it has flaws, it is no way near as bad as people have made out. I for one found the game exhilarating from start to finish.

PROS:
+ Characters with Charisma - This in itself is a miracle after the drab character's from Final Fantasy XII, the majority who had no motive or purpose to be within the story at all. I can not pin point anything remarkable in XII, While in XIII I can think of many moments which we're very emotive, I can't be the only one who wept during the conflict between Hope & Snow when it exploded at Palumporum.

+ A story that progressed - Once again, after Final Fantasy XII's slow progression of it's story XIII's frequent cutscenes was very refreshing. XII you would travel through landscapes/ temples from 5 - 10 hours with no progression in the story. Even when you entered a new town you would just go straight through it. While XIII had cutscenes every 30 minutes at least where the characters would talk to one another, which really built their characters.

+ Battle system - I have to say, I found XIII's battle system to be one of the most engaging in the series. Most people seem to miss the point of the Paradigm system. It's not so much focused on what attacks you use, it's more about having the right paradigm pack for the right moment. I found myself on guard every battle which is more than I can say for some previous FF's. Then of course you have the stagger system too, which was a really addictive system.

+ The Art Direction & Graphics - It has to be noted, I still think XIII is one of the best looking games this gen, the graphics were far better than even XIII-2. I really liked the sci-fi route of XIII's art design, but then I enjoyed VIII for the same reason. It was just visually striking.

CONS:

- Hiding the depth of the story in the Datalog - A lot of the details we're hidden in these datalogs, which made everything seem very vague, which is why it is hard to connect to XIII's story. Nothing about the God's is ever explained properly in the custscenes. I should not have to read up datalogs or novella's just to make up for a poor presentation of the story.

- Lack of a personal connection between the party and the antagonist - Like Vayne, Barthanderlus had no personal connection with any of the party, many of the best FF Villains have had such a connection to the lead character tend to be the most memorable (Cloud/Sephiroth, Tidus/Jetch etc.) XIII-2 did make up for this with Noel & Caius Which was one of the best features of the game.

- Battle system - While I liked it, there we're problems... When the party leader dies it's game over... even when another party member has revive! This was a big mistake solved once again in XIII-2.

- The Weapons system - It was just really plain and it required far too much time to gather all the times need for the upgrades.

As I have said before, I liked XIII while it is around the middle of my FF list, I still regard it as one of the best games I have played this gen. I think another reason for the hate is that they have lingered on XIII for so long now. One of the joys of Final Fantasy is that they're all different when a new Final Fantasy comes along it brings a new world along with it. Sequels do not offer this experience & While I generally enjoyed XIII-2 it was not up to the FF standard in my opinion.

I guess it's just up to personal opinion. The things you've noted as pros I would have noted as cons with the exception of the graphics, but the graphics just frustrated me because it shows you a beautiful world you have no access to, and I knew that everything else was bad because of the focus on the graphics. I thought the chracters were bland, cliche and had basically no development over the course of the story, they seemed exactly the same at the end as at the begining and despite the time spent with each other I still felt like they had no connections to each other. I hated the story, I thought it was boring and confusing (mainly because the important parts were written in a datalog instead of told through the story). It just felt nonsensical for the magority of the game and the characters were given no background before 13 days prior to the game. I hated the battle system because all it was, literally, was pressing x as fast as possible. Sure you could shift paradigms but really, all that did was change the class of your characters and the rest played itself and a lot of the time they didn't even do what I wanted them to do. The whole point of fights in XIII was how fast you could mash X, lets give you points for how fast you can kill an enemy instead of how well you strategise to kill it and actually work for it yourself.

I can't understand how people could like these things because I don't. But I understand that people have different opinions and while I might hate something others might love it. In VIII the draw system is massively hated upon, yet I love it personally. So I think what it mostly comes down to is just personal opinion. I base most of my opinion of a game in it's story and characters, I can honestly say that if the story and characters had appealed to me then even with all the other dissapointments, I'd still probably love the game. Same with the reverse, I wasn't very impressed with XII's story and characters, but the rest of the game was so fantastic I was able to look past it. The reason I absolutely loath XIII is because I can't find a single thing to like about it at all I wish I could, I don't enjoy disliking it, I'd love to be interested enough to want to play XIII-2, I wish I could. I want to play it again to see if I find it better the second time round (like I did with XII) but I'm not sure I could stand it long enough to get passed 10 minutes.