Proof God does not exist

Erythritol

Erythritol

Smoke and Arrogance
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I figure since it involves God, this is the right section to post in. If not, feel free to move it :P

My friend was asked to debate this question, and I thought it was really interesting:

Situation: You find, in a box somewhere, definitive proof that God does not exist. Do you destroy the box or do you show it to the world? Why/Why not?

Discuss.
 
Proof god does not exist in a box?
Hmm hard to say, the question is vague you see you don't say what kind of a box it is.

lol

I honestly don't know what I would do as honestly it wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference either way. Religions are based on faith so absolute proof god does not exist would only have short term ramifications it may cause the downfall of some modern religions but in the end some religions new or old would continue. It's in the nature of Humanity to want to have faith in things like religion to try and make themselves believe life is not as dark and meaningless as it truly is.

So really it would be down to my mood at the time, chances are I would do it just for the pleasure of being the cause of the anarchy that would follow.
 
Good question. I would probably keep it and show it to the world. I wouldn't do it to be an ass or anything, I just want keep them Jehovah's Witnesses from sticking their feet in my doorstep!

*goes and grabs a sign, sticks it in his lawn, and writes "No solicitors or proselytizers!" :mad:

But seriously, I would NOT show it and instead destroy it. Why? Because people have a right to believe in what they want to believe. If they're wrong, they're wrong, big deal. If they're right, ok, big deal. It's about faith, and though i argue incessantly against them, I do so respecting their choice to believe in what they want to believe.
 
I'd show everyone.....Im sick of jehovas witnesses knocking on my door trying to 'convert me' altho I suspect it might cause uproar and I might get assasinated, but oh well.....
 
Religeon is one of the biggest causes of war and i reckon it could stop alot of it if people saw this.
 
If I were to find a box that had definitive proof that God does not exist, then I would show the world. I think that the good would outweigh the bad on this decision. Sure there would be a lot of rioting and the murder rate would go up. But this decision will help mankind as a whole. Maybe all these religious people would finally put their petty differences aside.
 
Hera Ledro said:
But seriously, I would NOT show it and instead destroy it. Why? Because people have a right to believe in what they want to believe. If they're wrong, they're wrong, big deal. If they're right, ok, big deal. It's about faith, and though i argue incessantly against them, I do so respecting their choice to believe in what they want to believe.
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I agree wholeheartedly. People DO have a right to believe whatever they want to, even if it means not believing in anything at all. Proving that just ONE god does not exist doesn't mean a religion will stop existing.

Dazz said:
Religeon is one of the biggest causes of war and i reckon it could stop alot of it if people saw this.
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I have to disagree on 2 points:

1.) Religion is the pretense. Human nature is the true cause of war, not directly religion. Most likely it's politicians and power-hungry people who cause wars to gain personal fame and power.

2.) Religion going away will not solve much, especially stopping wars. In fact, I think it would escalate war.
 
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I'm kind of in agreement with not showing it, for two main points, the first one being that it's just going to cause quite a bit of a stir on the non-believers part. Secondly, much like Hera and Warb, I do think that people have the right to believe in what they wish. To quote a man from a dramatised video of the trial of 'Myra Hyndley': "Without a religious dimension, there is little meaning to life."
This nicely sums up that believing in an afterlife and everything that goes with it simply adds some meaning to why you even exist.

Parallel to this thread, what if you found a box with undeniable proof to show that God does exist? And, for both questions: who put that box there? Why did they put it there? Why did they not show it/keep it? Did God place the box there to end all squabbling and test the strength of faith of the faithful? Or did he place it there to stop people doubting him?
 
I would destroy the box. There are some things that humans aren't meant to know. With proof that God doesn't exist, so many people would have little meaning left for life. There would be no faith left, no hope for something better. Some people might have a really bad life, and for them following a God is the only thing that keeps them going. And lots of people have devoted their life to God and religion, and this makes them happy, makes them feel like they are worth something. You can't take that feeling away from people.
 
I wouldn't show it to the world. Religion gives people so much hope, and without it there are many people who would feel afraid of death and what lies beyond. Imagine how upset people would feel when they lose their loved ones if their only way of justifying it to themselves was "God has called them for their purpose".

Religion really can bring out the best in people. It brings out the worst in some, but it brings out the best in more! Many people feel content becuase of it.

Also, religion doesn't cause that many wars. People think it causes more wars than it does. People will always have a reason to fight. They fight for power, for loved ones, to eliminate fear of weapons...etc
 
I agree with the people that are saying that They WOULD NOT show it only because people should have a right to believe in what they think is right to them. It would just ruin all there fun.

Tbh i thought this thread was going to show why god doest exist xD
 
Kit Fisto said:
I agree with the people that are saying that They WOULD NOT show it only because people should have a right to believe in what they think is right to them. It would just ruin all there fun.

Tbh i thought this thread was going to show why god doest exist xD
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Haha, I thought the same thing at first :P

If I actually found the box though and new that it contained proof, then I don't think I would open it at all, because I wouldn't be able to cope with that kind of responsibility >.<
 
Just to expand on what Princess said there, would I LIKE to see what's inside the box? Fuck aaaye. I'd love that kind of knowledge ... but I'd still wonder where it came from, from whom and why.
 
Lol yeh, coming to think of it, I don't think I would be able to resist the temptation. But then I would regret it afterwards and I would be haunted by that knowledge for the rest of my life. Or my brain would probably explode.
 
I wouldn't show it to anyone. for some people faith in god is all that keeps them from harming others. most likely why religion would have been made in the first place, keep em under control.
 
You hit the nail on the head there, Jam. Religion is just that: a form of government. You'll notice that, until the past couple hundred years, almost every government had rules based on their respective dominant religions.

A prime example of this are the Anglican/Puritan bid for control over Britain during the 17th and 18th centuries.
 
I'd show it.
People have a right to know the truth... Either way, it would have little long term effect on society. There will always be someone making up lies about some sort of higher being, their messengers, and people making stories of where you go when you die... So even if you do kill off a religon, one will come right back up to replace.
The process is stupid, really.
 
Wow, I know for a lot of people, this wouldn't be a very hard question to answer. Those who have no beliefs are often annoyed by the pressured beliefs of others. And those who do believe want to show other's what they believe in.

I learned quite a bit about this in my world civilization class. And we've all learned that history repeats itself. Learn from your mistakes, as a person, or as a group of people.

My world civilization class has never taught me of ancient civilizations that did not carry customary religions. Well...because there is no country on earth that doesn't bear their own beliefs.

It seems as if those civilizations that had "abstract" beliefs in terms of the afterlife actually lead miserable lives. Let's have a quick history lesson now...

----------------------------------------

Let's take China and India for example.

The Chinese worked in groups; family was a big deal to the Chinese. I'm sure you've met a lot of Chinese people in this day in age who still have those age old family oriented customs. I know quite a lot of them...
The Ancient Chinese people followed what was called the Mandate of heaven...I won't go into details, but let's just say that they followed a very strict order of life. Follow the rules and you will live a happy, and hopefully prosperous life.

And what of Indians? The Indian people adopted a religion which taught that life was just an illusion. "We are not real, we are merely fragments of a dream".
Stop and think about this...if you knew that you're life was nothing but a dream, and that even after waking from your dream (death), you would still experience reincarnation (the ability to live your life countless times in different forms) would you care half as much as you would if you knew you only had one life?

The Chinese people had a different belief than the Indian people did. Let's stop and evaluate this again...
If you were born into the belief and/or you genuinely do believe that hard work and good moral values in this life would lead you to a happy afterlife, would you care more about your actions?
If you were born into the belief and/or you genuinely do believe that this life is nothing but a dream and that you'll be reborn again after death...would you give as much of a damn about moral values and good ethics?

----------------------------------------

Let's move on. I'm not ragging on India here, I just know, according to history, that the Chinese were much more progressive as a civilization than India was...and their beliefs undeniably had a lot to do with their advancements...

My conclusion is that religion is not a bad thing. Most of the religions that I've encountered have actually introduced good ethics into family life. Taking people's beliefs away from them, regardless of what they believe in, is wrong.
Whether or not it's right or wrong is a matter of opinion. But stop and think what the world would be like if much of the world's population didn't have religious morals...
 
I wouldn't share it with the world, but I wouldn't destroy it. I'd just consider myself a sort of 'Keeper of the Holy Grail."

Religion is a necessary evil in this world. While it may be the cause of some unnecessary deaths, the despair that people would find themselves in without the hope that a God offers them, would be far more devastating.

A lot of people refrain from acting out their impulses, because of punishment in the afterlife....rid of that fear, and you have humans just as primal as other mammal animals.
 
Booger said:
Wow, I know for a lot of people, this wouldn't be a very hard question to answer. Those who have no beliefs are often annoyed by the pressured beliefs of others. And those who do believe want to show other's what they believe in.

I learned quite a bit about this in my world civilization class. And we've all learned that history repeats itself. Learn from your mistakes, as a person, or as a group of people.

My world civilization class has never taught me of ancient civilizations that did not carry customary religions. Well...because there is no country on earth that doesn't bear their own beliefs.

It seems as if those civilizations that had "abstract" beliefs in terms of the afterlife actually lead miserable lives. Let's have a quick history lesson now...

----------------------------------------

Let's take China and India for example.

The Chinese worked in groups; family was a big deal to the Chinese. I'm sure you've met a lot of Chinese people in this day in age who still have those age old family oriented customs. I know quite a lot of them...
The Ancient Chinese people followed what was called the Mandate of heaven...I won't go into details, but let's just say that they followed a very strict order of life. Follow the rules and you will live a happy, and hopefully prosperous life.

And what of Indians? The Indian people adopted a religion which taught that life was just an illusion. "We are not real, we are merely fragments of a dream".
Stop and think about this...if you knew that you're life was nothing but a dream, and that even after waking from your dream (death), you would still experience reincarnation (the ability to live your life countless times in different forms) would you care half as much as you would if you knew you only had one life?

The Chinese people had a different belief than the Indian people did. Let's stop and evaluate this again...
If you were born into the belief and/or you genuinely do believe that hard work and good moral values in this life would lead you to a happy afterlife, would you care more about your actions?
If you were born into the belief and/or you genuinely do believe that this life is nothing but a dream and that you'll be reborn again after death...would you give as much of a damn about moral values and good ethics?

----------------------------------------

Let's move on. I'm not ragging on India here, I just know, according to history, that the Chinese were much more progressive as a civilization than India was...and their beliefs undeniably had a lot to do with their advancements...

My conclusion is that religion is not a bad thing. Most of the religions that I've encountered have actually introduced good ethics into family life. Taking people's beliefs away from them, regardless of what they believe in, is wrong.
Whether or not it's right or wrong is a matter of opinion. But stop and think what the world would be like if much of the world's population didn't have religious morals...
Click to expand...

K, not to be a jerk, but you must not have paid very close attention in class. Hinduism is far more complex than you describe it, and it certainly has a moral system that gives incentives for leading a moral life. Ever heard of KARMA? Ever wondered where that concept originated? The answer is India. The ENTIRE belief of karma is based on the idea that when one does good deeds, one is rewarded (that's the very simplified version). Also, reincarnation is not just the idea that "oh damn, no matter what, you are reborn, and it is an endless cycle." Depending on your actions in life, you can be reborn into a higher caste system. They also believed that a person is reborn because they desire it; they enjoy the physical pleasures of having a body. However, once they reach enlightenment, they will achieve a oneness with the universe. So, um, Hinduism is certainly infused with morality. There is absolutely no doubt about that. To say that India didn't achieve anything is absurd. They are one of the oldest successful civilizations, and they certainly flourished as much as the Chinese did.

EDIT:

P.S. The Mandate of Heaven was an ancient Chinese sovereignity concept used to support the legitimacy of kings/emperors to rule. What does that have to do with morals at all?
 
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