World of Final Fantasy - why it bothers me.

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Razberry Knight

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There have been many spin-off games in the past that came some are forgotten, and some are remembered. And some annoyed me, but was able to live with their existence....World of Final Fantasy. However is one i'm trying to tolerate by trying to find its merits, i keep finding flaws instead. (and i'm still trying to tolerate ff13's existence, so keep that in mind on how much i'm trying to tolerate).

So there are a few things about this game. This game was intended to be PSVita, but also moving it to ps4 to promote the system. However, if you keep looking at everything, more and more suggests their trying to sell the ps4 more than the vita.

Its no surprise that SE has been trying to get FF as this universal "catch-all" demographic for those who like JRPGs. (and to me, that's a sign of them selling out) With the latest visual games, almost every game recently has been just a nostalgia ride sometimes with a combination of taking other (FF Record Keeper, FF Explorers, every FF social game, and FF All the Bravest). And its not just FF that's doing it. Dragon Quest taking closer to "Samurai Warriors" series and even making their own "Minecraft" style game.

SE has no shame at all.

So how does this fit with World of FF? Let me first point out the merits that i was able to find. WoFF is trying to ride on the nostalgia with the chibi style. Open world, (apparently from cutscenes) and you can stack up with monsters. It seems like an interesting idea (at least on paper).

Not truly original. There is one particular game series that this game resembles (and no, its not Pokemon), and that is Dragon Quest Monster: Joker. DQM:J allowed you to capture monsters and use them in your team. Also had town and an overworld. Sure it has a WoFF, "stack system" and tries to build the nostalgia more, but it just feels like its trying to be DQM more than anything else. Plot-wise, it STRONGLY resembles FF:U or Final Fantasy: Unlimited. Twin characters, jumping into a mysterious world and already there is a train.

Clashing design: the characters and cast look awkward. Sure, i see general intention of being cute, but the main characters in their full-size bodies are disproportionate. Their heads appear to be that of at least 16-18 years old but their bodies say otherwise. They also lack in distinguishing characteristics. I see the male trying to fit the stereo type, but with his clothing choice and his body language, its unappealing. Second is the female who is wearing skimpy clothes so means we get to see the shape of her body closer. It really does look like its trying to be an adult woman's body, but since the size of everything (and the size of her head), it looks like they intended to make a rather sexy child. Which to me, is DISTURBING. We have the silver hair woman who also looks strange too. But not as much because she's not so revealing. But those white hips and curvy legs on the main character is too much.

Keep in mind that when their in their chibi form, that's when its most awkward as mixing the two seem to clash together, but also worst when they use mirages. I can understand making aminiature off the main cast, but Looking at Ifrit and the other summons, they dont necessarily look "cute". sure they look simplified and have that plastic look SE has been suing since the ps2 era, but doesn't even look like the attempt to be cute is there. This is especially awkward when you see those "Mirages" combined with the chibi artstyle. If you look at the latest screenshots, you can see a "Cerberus" type of mirage that looks dark and mean looking on with two super-deformed characters on top of it. At first i laughed, but now i just can't stand the sight of it.

The name, everything about the name suggest that its a hardcore introductory to the world of FF, or what makes it so amazing. Seeing all the monsters, creatures, and overall a giant world. Its a heavy contrast from the chibi and simplified designs. Even FF-Explorers looks bigger than this. The name just suggests what amazing world we could've been exploring.


A little too casual. Out of everything about this game, its not really trying to sell you with characters and story. The cast personalities look quite typical, they look like they both have that happy go lucky attitude. All in the mean time the story looks quite simple, travel this world to uncover some "memory". Which no doubt has something to do with saving this world. And considering SE latest track with the use of Grimoire and also with the way they've handled FF (merging into the real world), it wouldn't cross me that this world is just some story.


it all seems designed strictly on one aspect. those who like chibi style. Now sure, it may have other merits, but it doesn't look like SE is banking on those...they want us to be invested on the chibi artstyle more.

MY MAIN CONCERN: As you may know, why am i bringing this up? Well, i'm tired of seeing SE make one mistake after another. Because of the severe hype of FF13 (created by SE, not fans), we got two more sequels of a game, making last gen annoying. Its these kinds of mistakes that made Tomb Raider a timed exclusive to xbone, when Tomb Raider has always been on Sony consoles . I would love to see this game flourish, and help SE make the bigger games we've been wanting...BUT....so far, i haven't seen it.

Then again, i would like to see SE learn from their mistakes, and this indeed looks like a bigger mistake. It really doesn't take too much effort to come up with something new yet familiar all while not banking on nostalgia and general tropes. What happened to the days when it was great story and characters that made an FF go round?
 

FinalxxSin

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Its no surprise that SE has been trying to get FF as this universal "catch-all" demographic for those who like JRPGs. (and to me, that's a sign of them selling out)
TLDR; Not every FF game is going to be made to cater to you. This is the reality of the situation.

I don't understand why WOFF bothers you to the degree that it does. Obviously this game isn't being made to be catered to you. Imo WOFF is the type of game a young child could get into, and less likely will be of interest to adults on a massive scale. Believe me, I have no interest in the game. Do I think the game will have great sales? More than likely not considering a good chunk of the FF fan base are adults at this point.

Is the company selling out by trying to market to anybody wanting to play a JRPG? I personally say no. Think about it like this: With every new mainline installment, or spin off, the franchise picks up more people whoms desires will more than likely have more variation differences in comparison to other people that have stuck with the franchise longer. This was bound to happen with the direction the franchise aimed to achieve even in the earlier years. Otherwise imo, FF would probably still be 16 bit games with the same type of battle systems (which may in reality cause people to lose interest due to lack of change). The company has a larger variety of people to try and cater to these days....say versus 1997 and before. The days of every game branded with FF somewhere and you liking that game are over. While in the grand scheme of things I do thank the old vets for helping keep the franchise going, I do also have to thank Square for purposely switching up the formula. Otherwise, I would have probably remained an outsider wanting to try out the franchise.

Maybe in the back of your mind, you feel like you are being forgotten. Maybe you feel like all of your hard years of loyalty mean little to nothing at this point, and you feel like you getting spitted in your face with disappointment after disappointment. Since the new stuff isn't your cup of tea you can either A) Play the older titles (which you probably already have been doing, but won't be a permanent fix), or B) Wait more years for a FF game that is actually being catered to your taste.
 

Razberry Knight

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TLDR; Not every FF game is going to be made to cater to you. This is the reality of the situation.
you failed to understand that ff slowly molded it's audience. Yes, each passing time they gained more fans but that's expected based on reviews. But. Ff didn't cater to me, I catered to it. Then now all of a sudden ff is this catch all. It doesn't matter if not every ff is catered to me...but this looks like it's being catered to a completely different audience. An audience that won't grow with the ff fan base.
I don't understand why WOFF bothers you to the degree that it does. Obviously this game isn't being made to be catered to you. Imo WOFF is the type of game a young child could get into, and less likely will be of interest to adults on a massive scale. Believe me, I have no interest in the game. Do I think the game will have great sales? More than likely not considering a good chunk of the FF fan base are adults at this point.
I hate it when ppl say TLDR and say they don't understand.
Is the company selling out by trying to market to anybody wanting to play a JRPG? I personally say no. Think about it like this: With every new mainline installment, or spin off, the franchise picks up more people whoms desires will more than likely have more variation differences in comparison to other people that have stuck with the franchise longer. This was bound to happen with the direction the franchise aimed to achieve even in the earlier years. Otherwise imo, FF would probably still be 16 bit games with the same type of battle systems (which may in reality cause people to lose interest due to lack of change). The company has a larger variety of people to try and cater to these days....say versus 1997 and before. The days of every game branded with FF somewhere and you liking that game are over. While in the grand scheme of things I do thank the old vets for helping keep the franchise going, I do also have to thank Square for purposely switching up the formula. Otherwise, I would have probably remained an outsider wanting to try out the franchise.
you personally say no, but everything else says yes but with different wording. Honestly it's not about newcomers and vets...but that's what splits the fan base. I mean to go as far saying you wouldn't be a fan if it wasn't for that...but can you call yourself if one thing you liked was being targeted. First off what game we're you introduced to that is so far out? Keep in mind, se targeted other audience before....but this game is different than the others.WoFF looks like it's selling out...as it is only trying to appeal the cute design. And there have been previous games with a cute design. Ff4 and ff3 on Nintendo DS. But WoFF is selling the cuteness first. Keep in mind that everything else doesn't look like their trying to make a good game. Even if I'm adult, I bet a 13 year old boy/girl can see the awkward design clashing against each other, odd proportions, and igirlack of genuine story or characters. There's usually a second option to get the old fan at least curious enough.
Maybe in the back of your mind, you feel like you are being forgotten. Maybe you feel like all of your hard years of loyalty mean little to nothing at this point, and you feel like you getting spitted in your face with disappointment after disappointment. Since the new stuff isn't your cup of tea you can either A) Play the older titles (which you probably already have been doing, but won't be a permanent fix), or B) Wait more years for a FF game that is actually being catered to your taste.
Think harder on this.....think about how your comment just disregards me. I'm not waiting for just one game. I want the days when FF molded us, not the days where Ff becomes this and that. Other wise....where is it's integrity?
 

FinalxxSin

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..........
1) I started off with FFVIII when I was 10 or 11 (I didn't have any knowledge of the series at all at the time). It was at the local Wal-Mart store with FFVII to the left and FFIX to the right. FFVIII had the most appealing cover to me, and the rest is history. Years later I found out that many people considered it to be a bad game, or at the very least a black sheep in the franchise. I was too young to have played the earlier titles before and didn't have the proper console. I came into the series when it had started to do more extreme changes. FFI - FFV have a lot more in common than FFVI - FFX. Hell, there are even more extreme changes with FFXI - FFXV. Also, I probably wouldn't have been into the medieval type settings based on what else I played in my youth. I apologize for not being more specific on the child aspect earlier. I was referring to children who are under 13 (like 6 - 11 year olds). WOFF looks like another side game.......you know how like Dissidia is. I could completely understand your side if it got a number slapped on it, but that isn't the case. I could even understand your side if the game had you very excited at first, but gradually generated more disgust as time went by (hint hint FFXV for you). The game doesn't interest you very much...so maybe you're just venting just for the hell of it?

2)Correct me if I am wrong, but when you were younger you had less experience yes? You basically had the older titles to form a basis of standards for you on a personal level. So you come to expect certain things in a title that you have grown used too. Unless I was to wipe my memory clean, go back into the past, and play the games you did in order, I will never understand your unique position. I simply won't. My experience is different from yours. What you want may simply be gone forever on a personal level. Standards change, technology changes, and people change. How am I disregarding you anyway? As I said before, I thank the vets who have helped to keep the franchise going. I gave you two realistic options that you could select from. There are people out there having a hay day that are being molded in a positive aspect by some of the more recent FF titles, or whatever game they are playing a lot. Maybe your molding finished long ago. Only you have the answer to that one. Your "Golden Era" with FF may be over as well, but once again only you know that answer. My "Golden Era" may have not even happened yet. Maybe you want those feels back that you had when you were younger. Only you truly know the answers.
 

Razberry Knight

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1) I started off with FFVIII when I was 10 or 11 (I didn't have any knowledge of the series at all at the time). It was at the local Wal-Mart store with FFVII to the left and FFIX to the right. FFVIII had the most appealing cover to me, and the rest is history. Years later I found out that many people considered it to be a bad game, or at the very least a black sheep in the franchise. I was too young to have played the earlier titles before and didn't have the proper console. I came into the series when it had started to do more extreme changes. FFI - FFV have a lot more in common than FFVI - FFX. Hell, there are even more extreme changes with FFXI - FFXV.
the reason why ff8 is considered bad is because of horrible system along with overused anime cliche (squall and Rinoa we're pushed together by friends, rinoas obsession, and bloodties) Overall ff8 gets just as much bad Rep as ff12. Which is a game I love. Reason why the changes are so drastic from ff11 to ff15 is because Se is playing catch up from previous mistakes. An entire generation of gaming and they focused on final fantasy 13 all while failing sales expectations for an amazing game such as tomb raider.
Also, I probably wouldn't have been into the medieval type settings based on what else I played in my youth.
Common misconception that ff series started off purely medieval. It really was the unique job system and sprite designs that sold the series along withs unique story(although some are more cliche then others). For example: the dawn of ff was in the NES era. Before 3d and everything was representational and up for the imagination if they we're actual size (not to mention the box art helped us what kind I'd design was intended). It was until ff moved toward 3d that it wasn't completely up to imagination. Some things still were left to the imagination such as traveling over world (which for a time was sacrificed by more linear traveling) but now SE had the ability to represent things in a game more accurately. If you look back, previous ff games still had robots, and a solid use of tech. AIrships were used on the first game. Remakes of ff1 quickly added back stories of them.
I apologize for not being more specific on the child aspect earlier. I was referring to children who are under 13 (like 6 - 11 year olds).
Which says a lot more....at that age kids are much more closer to the 3DS. And that's not an obscure vague analysis. Keep in mind the developers are treating this game with the priority of a numbered game....so what happens when it doesn't meet expectations? This also bothers me because Se has been torn between several games. Which is why ff15 is being kept at this Gen when we could've seen it last Gen. Theres no organization or priority. It wouldn't have bothered me so if it was in 3DS.
WOFF looks like another side game.......you know how like Dissidia is. I could completely understand your side if it got a number slapped on it, but that isn't the case. I could even understand your side if the game had you very excited at first, but gradually generated more disgust as time went by (hint hint FFXV for you). The game doesn't interest you very much...so maybe you're just venting just for the hell of it?
but there's a huge difference between world of FF and every other spin off available. INCLUDING the other games that are just intended to sell out such as FF all the bravest, Ff explorers and more. Dissidia was made to celebrate previous games that the fan base was already familiar with all at the same time introducing or enticing some to play the ones they never got to. Its not targeted for just ppl who like fighter games. A lot of the fanbase who played previous ffs are very familiar with dissidia because of it. For the first time (and should've been the only time) where we can see cast actively be in the same world. Not some obscure cameo.You ignored completely the naming of this game as a valid point. So I'll reclarify with example. Final fantasy dimensions/final fantasy legends (in Japan) is a throwback game. It uses a ton of stuff from previous games. However....it's still using a name that fits a spin off or not trying to equal that of a main title. But imagine if this game was called Dimension of Final fantasy? There is a drastic difference between (x of) final fantasy and final fantasy (x).Final Fantasy Tactics^not exactly a subtitle but an embodiment of an aspect that an ff game will be highlighting. chroniclesff tactics focuses on tactics and labels it as a separate aspect of a inline ff.Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles^A colon separates the title. Notice? This one is series of games that connect together and share a universe. Now this fits well with ffcc but any subseries can do it. FF type-0 and such. The subtitle (unlike tactics) suggest instead of being a different aspect, just a particular subseries altogether that has more freedom to focus on different aspects but also contain main numbered aspects. For example: type-0 despite being single player had any main title aspects. Alternate endings I say is the deal breaker.World of final fantasy. ^really let this title sync in...it's not trying to suggest that it's a side game. But highlighting the world or core aspects of what makes a world of a general Final Fantasy...and yet.....this game doesn't highlight much world. The game is designed toward a more fixed camera and traveling with chibi characters. If this was called Final Fantasy chibi or Final fantasy: mini adventures. Or whatever, then yes, I say why not...
2)Correct me if I am wrong, but when you were younger you had less experience yes? You basically had the older titles to form a basis of standards for you on a personal level. So you come to expect certain things in a title that you have grown used too. Unless I was to wipe my memory clean, go back into the past, and play the games you did in order, I will never understand your unique position. I simply won't. My experience is different from yours. What you want may simply be gone forever on a personal level. Standards change, technology changes, and people change. How am I disregarding you anyway? As I said before, I thank the vets who have helped to keep the franchise going. I gave you two realistic options that you could select from. There are people out there having a hay day that are being molded in a positive aspect by some of the more recent FF titles, or whatever game they are playing a lot. Maybe your molding finished long ago. Only you have the answer to that one. Your "Golden Era" with FF may be over as well, but once again only you know that answer. My "Golden Era" may have not even happened yet. Maybe you want those feels back that you had when you were younger. Only you truly know the answers.
Here's what you don't get...FF sells. As in regardless of what game comes out, good, bad, or not even close to what FF is about, the title sells. Dont believe me? Ff8 still had sword usage. Granted unique weapon was introduced such as gunblade, but I don't doubt introduction to cinematic computer generated scenes would've been enough to sellalthough as they we're brand new and vastly improving after each title. that's what made ff13 sell. IT was a next gen ff game. Fans and non fans felt comforted starting at 13 when its next gen. Thats also why sequels move to next gen, remakes or compilations are made to accomodate. Not for me, I had doubts from the beginning about ff13. Despite ff13 being a big introduction to newcomers and completely miaunderstanding what ff is about (to the point of recognizing that its not upto par but like it anyways because to them its the first ff), there was a large community that said final fantasy in general sucks and the only game theyve played was 13. Having to explain to them countless of times that 13 isn't the entirety of the series.You really don't need to erase your experience to gain mine. or even underatand what im talking about. Being a vet isnt about how long you been around, although it helps. 7 and 8 we're my introduction as well. But I fell in love with ff even more looking back and seeing how it started and what the appeal is. And they are still appealing, games been remade countless times for dozens of systems. Ff1, 2 and 4 have been on new, pc, wonderswan, gameboy advance, PSP, featurephones (japan only) and smartphones. Like I said, ff told me what it was about...now it's selling out....for reasons I said but continued to get ignored.TLDR: ff has been selling out because a) the spin offs get more attention and seemingly more priority now. B) the games copy off of other original games such as dragon quest monster: joker and monster hunter. C) don't seem to focus on good story telling and great characters anymore when advertising a game. TLDR #2: ff8 is more than enough room to say your a vet unless you haven't been playing any ff recently or at all. But ff isn't about medieval vs sci fi. Sometimes it's the perfect combination of the two. And knowing where it started helps.
 
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FinalxxSin

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1) Ok the title itself, if different would change your reaction a bit...hmmm. FF: World Of? I'm sorry but that doesn't sound very good coming off my tongue. Maybe the other title suggestions you provided would have been more effective. This isn't the first time this has happened. I specifically recall the placement of LR: FFXIII. I scratched my head a bit and didn't understand why anything would go before FFXIII, but then again I later understood the company may have not wanted to push the FFXIII name first given the mixed feedback. If this game doesn't perform well, which I am speculating will occur, then this may not happen again.

2) You having to explain to people that there are other games outside of FFXIII reminds me of the people who have only touched FFVII as an RPG. Ofc I would have to wipe my memories to really grasp your passion. Otherwise, how would you expect me to walk in your shoes? I didn't play those earlier games when they were say...fresher. Therefore I probably won't appreciate them the same way you do/did. I know myself better than you do. Far as FF goes I've also played:
-FFVII (good story imo, but crappy graphics that didn't age well even for PS1 gen)
-FFX (likeable storyline, but I disliked the combat and oh god at the lip syncing issues)
-FFXII (I personally felt there was a lack of character development. Vaan didn't feel like a main main character. The gambit system was too good....afk fighting became possible. I like Balthier, Fran, and Basch the most.)
-FFXIII (Besides the underwhelming end boss, and a few combat issues such as 2 commandos not being able to single attack same enemy when more than one is present, I have no complaints. No I didn't use Auto-Battle.)
-FFXIII-2 (Cauis was the only saving grace for me in the game. My overall least favorite soundtrack, and 2nd least favorite battle system behind Xs (would be 3rd, but I won't be playing FFII). The DLC bullshit put me off with that game.)
-LR: FFXIII (Main story bits are good imo, but most of the side content is lackluster. Didn't have the time nor budget as original game, so it falls short in graphics. Combat is the high point in the game.)
-FF Type-0 (Combat is great imo. Camera angles can be an issue at times. Storyline had a strong start and finish, but the middle is iffy imo.)

I don't consider myself a vet. I consider myself a seasoned player.

3) I personally don't have an issue with side games/spin offs getting pushed harder. I've been wanting to play a Dissidia game for years, but I never had the right platform. Now, I may finally get to play Dissidia on the PS4 in the future. Type-0, a spin off game, is getting another installment which I am very excited about. If the side games can be great in their own aspects, I am all up for it. Story and characters tend to be subjective in many cases. That's all there really is to it. If there is something you like/dislike, then more power to you. Hell XV, use to just be a spin off game, but is now a main number.

4) You know exactly why FFvsXIII didn't come out last gen. FFXIII got pushed hard and FFIXV was being fixed. This is probably just as important: http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/19/44...nal-fantasy-versus-13-became-final-fantasy-15 Even if the first two were not issues, the consoles were just too weak. Remember FFXIII, despite being very linear, still took up 3 discs on the Xbox 360........
 

Razberry Knight

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1) Ok the title itself, if different would change your reaction a bit...hmmm. FF: World Of? I'm sorry but that doesn't sound very good coming off my tongue. Maybe the other title suggestions you provided would have been more effective. This isn't the first time this has happened. I specifically recall the placement of LR: FFXIII. I scratched my head a bit and didn't understand why anything would go before FFXIII, but then again I later understood the company may have not wanted to push the FFXIII name first given the mixed feedback. If this game doesn't perform well, which I am speculating will occur, then this may not happen again.
if it had to be done. Ff world. Or ff worlds: add subtitle here. But this title suggest grander things.and yet...it doesn't.
2) You having to explain to people that there are other games outside of FFXIII reminds me of the people who have only touched FFVII as an RPG. Ofc I would have to wipe my memories to really grasp your passion. Otherwise, how would you expect me to walk in your shoes? I didn't play those earlier games when they were say...fresher. Therefore I probably won't appreciate them the same way you do/did. I know myself better than you do.
compared to the games you've played...you really don't. Here you talk about how spin offs help the franchise and you don't know it enough to reply prove it. Like I said, I was introduced to ff in the ps1 Gen. SE made it available for me to play the older ones anyways. Ff1, 2, 4, 5, 6 we're all on gba and affordable. Ff3 was greatly anticipated so when I got it on DS I played the from as well. If you appreciate games in general especially see them for what they we're at the time, you can see the evolution of the series. Not this sell out stuff. Even Ff adventure (technically the first mama game) had strong Zelda elements but a good story and unique ideas to carry it out. And still an RPG.
I don't consider myself a vet. I consider myself a seasoned player.
a little less seasoned when it comes to off...you've been long enough but barely played any of the other games. Especially the spin offs to defend them.
3) I personally don't have an issue with side games/spin offs getting pushed harder. I've been wanting to play a Dissidia game for years, but I never had the right platform. Now, I may finally get to play Dissidia on the PS4 in the future. Type-0, a spin off game, is getting another installment which I am very excited about. If the side games can be great in their own aspects, I am all up for it. Story and characters tend to be subjective in many cases. That's all there really is to it. If there is something you like/dislike, then more power to you.
dissidia and type 0 don't equal the same as the sell out spin offs. Dissidia was indeed a great game. It really was a celebration of ff series. Type-0 is a great game as well but I'm concerned with what the Creator intends type series to be considering that he stated it's his escape from main series such as along games for adults and kids. Which isn't bad but all within an obscure series? The goal of a subseries is to build on what the audience liked. Still....type-0 is a high quality game. But you are oversimplifying it. This isn't about making more spin offs than main numbered games. Its focusing on making spin offs more to the point that there is no real attention to Work on main games. Plus the selling out.......Se has made amazing spin offs and haven't sold out at one point (if you we're actively following). But now, after dissidia, Se wants to bank on nostalgia, and not the good kind. Games such as FF all the bravest high is just a screen swiped and collecting sprites whoch can be fun but no real effort there. The countless and countless of social games that dont even get enough attention. Or FF explorers that copies half of what monster hunter is about but doesnt do enough to sell the main ff ideas. And then...World of FF. Dont oversimplify it. I dont dislike world of FF just because its a spin off. Its because the series is this vast water. MAybe your not a fan....like you said, your seasoned. And it shows your "familiar" with it. But to say your an ff fn? TO me it takes more than just talk about the games you played that are in the series to be a fan.....you have to really look into and see what its about...and thats what i did. Especially since i knew ff barely touched 3d, i wanted to know what it was in 2D. It has nothing to do witj "freshness"
4) You know exactly why FFvsXIII didn't come out last gen. FFXIII got pushed hard and FFIXV was being fixed. This is probably just as important: http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/19/44...nal-fantasy-versus-13-became-final-fantasy-15 Even if the first two were not issues, the consoles were just too weak. Remember FFXIII, despite being very linear, still took up 3 discs on the Xbox 360........
Which is still poor planning by Se to push for something so much too early. the reason why they have to do it that way is because they didn't properly transition to the next stage. Not to mention that the crystal tools engine was a horrid engine. It didn't allow free world which Se invested so much on it. I get that they wanted ff15 to be visually astonishing....but think bigger on why the need for that is there.
 

Razberry Knight

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TLDR: I guess the core out of the argument is you see FF a little more casually than I do. But still, saying you can't understand is like saying you can't comprehend.my view.So I'll say this.......world of ff is selling out to me. Ff is still identifiable. At least with theathrythm, the game still catered to older ff fans because it was music over cute sprites. And ff explorers barely looked likable despite any monsters looking cute. However world of FF looks like a sell out. Even on it's own merits, it doesn't look like a great title. The designs between full size monsters and chibi characters don't coinside. Its so incoherent. the story is lackluster and rather unoriginal. If this was a 3DS game with a title such as FF chibi or something that really fits on who their selling it to. Then yes...but....since it's the opposite...But most importantly world of ff although looks expensive. Focusing on it enough to be a ps4 title. High end graphics and such. Just seem to miss the point. I love cute things. Trust me I do. I own several Pokemon plushies such as chikorita and pikachu along with generation 1 starters. I own calcifer pillow along with other studio ghibli items. But the high end graphics work against the cute design. Especially with bigger monsters such as Cerberus as Cerberus, although somewhat cute (in a dog kind of way) has this slick charcoal body and magma eyes. While the over-abundantly smooth twin characters on top just don't fit.
 

FinalxxSin

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Yes, you are correct that I am a lot more casual than you in the viewing of FF. You are also correct that I have little knowledge with spin-off/side games also. While I am not properly able to defend those games as a collective group, I still provided my viewpoint on the topic. I appreciate the old titles in a respect aspect. However, beyond VI (will probably play if it gets a remake), My respect will only remain on a non-personal level. You are correct that SE pushing FFvsXIII too soon was a mistake. However, this may have been unavoidable. Sometimes, things don't work out according to plan. I won't ever get the full answers as to why things turned out the way they did. All I can do is focus on today and the future. Thanks for setting down the law on what you feel defines a FF fan. I won't ever make that checklist, and I have no intention on trying :P. The choices with WOFF bother you, and they don't bother me. I don't share the same expectations as you do, and vice-versa. Your counter viewpoint on judging what my analyzing abilities should be based on what I have played is moot. Did you consider that I could be a visual/hands-on learner? Probably not. Even with you knowing that now, my molding is still different from yours. Your thought process is different from mine. There is nothing wrong with these differences, unless you want to push this discussion into the realms of an ego contest which I won't participate in.

In regards to the main number titles: It takes longer for a main title game to get formed these days. Back then, technology was weaker so there was less things that needed to be addressed. Current day, there is lip-synching, more animations (movement, attacking, etc.), voice acting, and no telling what else. So yes, it is taking longer for a new main line FF title to come out. This could be reduced by having multiple teams work on different numbered titles at a time, but Idk how SE's structure and time schedule is set up when it comes to the numbered titles specifically. The main line games still build a lot of interest imo, and will probably remain that way for some time still. I could always be wrong though.
 

Razberry Knight

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Yes, you are correct that I am a lot more casual than you in the viewing of FF. You are also correct that I have little knowledge with spin-off/side games also. While I am not properly able to defend those games as a collective group, I still provided my viewpoint on the topic.
which i feel this argument is pointless if it was properly baked up by experience.
I appreciate the old titles in a respect aspect. However, beyond VI (will probably play if it gets a remake), My respect will only remain on a non-personal level.
unless you played them yourself.

The choices with WOFF bother you, and they don't bother me. I don't share the same expectations as you do, and vice-versa. Your counter viewpoint on judging what my analyzing abilities should be based on what I have played is moot. Did you consider that I could be a visual/hands-on learner? Probably not. Even with you knowing that now, my molding is still different from yours. Your thought process is different from mine. There is nothing wrong with these differences, unless you want to push this discussion into the realms of an ego contest which I won't participate in.

OK first things first. Its not the choices with WoFF that bothers me, its WoFF itself based on what we know about the game and what SE is really trying to do BASED on those choices. And for me, i feel like SE is underestimating me (and the general FF audience) as a whole. And this always goes to affect SE eventually.

For example: i dont know if you remember about that game "Journey of the Light" where it was being sold as the most difficult games, eventually people hacked it and found there was very little coding. People couldn't get passed the first level because there was nothing to get passed. When this was revealed, the creator said thats not whats suppose to happen and would fix it, but since then he has been making excuses.

His decisions tell us alot about what kind of person and what kind of game. Again, you over-simplify the reason why WoFF bothers me. and its so much more than "choices".

asking me if i ever considered that is assuming i never did. Which is pointless....i'm a visual hands on learner myself. You just say 'i can't understand, and i wont". you're setting yourself up to be someone who is "incapable". I never say "i can't understand". At some level "i can" see it the other way....if i can't, its because i have a lot of points, and the person who i can't understand has yet to provide more insight.

For you, i can understand someone who sees FF more casually, and who hasn't played enough spin offs would think its ok to say that FF isn't selling out. and this isn't about ego....its about understand ing what FF is. and no, its not as subjective as people make it seem. FF is definable. SO for someone who sees what FF is about....can you understand why it bothers me? Thats the point, i'm discussing with you, but its more than a matter of shooting one opinion after another, is understanding those opinions. I maybe a veteran, but that doesn't make my point any less, iin fact, it should make you look further into it than casually undermining the long history that SE has provided. and i'm not a stupid fan who wants the old 8-bit NES games with boring FF. I believe FF should evolve...i just dont believe it should sell out. FF has the ability to get people interested just by being itself. But trying to be this "catch all series" makes it diluded. First off, it makes it harder to be a community who like the series for similar reasons. And then casual players will probably focus on the surface of the problem, and wont dig deep into it.which i feel is happening now. no matter what i say, more than half of it gets ignored.
In regards to the main number titles: It takes longer for a main title game to get formed these days. Back then, technology was weaker so there was less things that needed to be addressed. Current day, there is lip-synching, more animations (movement, attacking, etc.), voice acting, and no telling what else. So yes, it is taking longer for a new main line FF title to come out. This could be reduced by having multiple teams work on different numbered titles at a time, but Idk how SE's structure and time schedule is set up when it comes to the numbered titles specifically. The main line games still build a lot of interest imo, and will probably remain that way for some time still. I could always be wrong though.
This is because SE jumped the gun with 13.....the reason why expectations on graphics are so incredibly high, lip syncing and etc is because FF is because they made a giant step from it. SE was too worried about maxing out the graphics on a console, they didn't focus on the more important things. gameplay, which is why 13 was a very divided game. even fans admit this game wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't a Final Fantasy game. even then, the first half of the game (i dare say 2 thirds of the game) was a long tutorial. But regardless, still talking about why WoFF in particular bothers me.

Also keep in mind, although you've played type-0, i've been waiting for that game to come to the US for a very long time. And we finally got it. But because the focus was on it. I rather not wait for a great spin-off just because they focused on making a game that doesn't target the fanbase. I mean...its like making a call of duty FF edition. and i dont doubt it can be a fun game if made for it, but who are they targetting!? and what do they gain by slapping FF on it?


so from now on, i'm only going to be talking about that. Not any other spin off, or anything.
 

FinalxxSin

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Yep I do oversimplify your viewpoint on WOFF because the bottom line still remains the same regardless of the massive amount of time you have put into explaining things in detail. If I was in disagreement with that viewpoint, then yes I would have tried to understand it more in detail. However, it doesn't bother me. That's good for you that you never say "I can't understand". I'm not going to put on a front and pretend like I fully understand your viewpoint. I'm sorry my choice of wording isn't to your liking either, but this is something you'll just have to get used too. I never viewed your point on WOFF as invalid, or less important. I bet I could go online and ask various people what is FF and what they feel defines it.....I'll probably end up with different answers.

To me, graphically pushing a console to the limit is what SE does. Imo, it's part of telling a story from a visual aspect. Telling a story is still important in most FF games. Gameplay, as long as it isn't broken, can have a lot of outlooks formed. Is it too easy, too short, too long, too hard, not enough options, too many options, etc. etc.? These can vary from person to person.

Yes, when a person wants something to evolve, they may not get something like-able in the process. Some people will become upset, some will be so-so, and some others will like the changes. Satisfying every person, especially with how diverse FF has become, is impossible. You are damned if you change, and you are damned if you stay the same. I have no problem with people liking the series for different reasons from other people. I don't mind the diversity, despite the lack of unity that forms from it. It's one of the most controversial franchises of all time, and I personally wouldn't want to have it any other way. Imo, it's a gift and a curse that makes the franchise stick out like a sore thumb and blessing in the gaming market. Maybe I'm selfish for wishing that. Maybe you find it annoying since it makes it more difficult to connect with people with your viewpoints.

I am glad that you'll focus more of your time and energy on something that does actually interest you in the future. It'll probably save you some grief in the future.
 

Razberry Knight

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Yep I do oversimplify your viewpoint on WOFF because the bottom line still remains the same regardless of the massive amount of time you have put into explaining things in detail. If I was in disagreement with that viewpoint, then yes I would have tried to understand it more in detail. However, it doesn't bother me. That's good for you that you never say "I can't understand". I'm not going to put on a front and pretend like I fully understand your viewpoint. I'm sorry my choice of wording isn't to your liking either, but this is something you'll just have to get used too. I never viewed your point on WOFF as invalid, or less important. I bet I could go online and ask various people what is FF and what they feel defines it.....I'll probably end up with different answers.

It insulting to oversimplify my viewpoint in general and disregard all the points i took time and effort. So even though you claim you're not saying that, you actually are through your actions. Second, you haven't even attempted to understand. Understanding means asking questions to further get the root of the issue. Keep in mind, when you say you dont understand, you are literally saying you aren't capable of comprehending other people (and i'm starting to generally believe this with the way this argument has gone)

Yes, if you ask various random people what FF is, you will get different answers. but if you ask fans such as myself, we get to the bottom of it. Theres a reason why a large group of fans didn't like 13. one of the biggest ones is because it didn't feel like a FF title. the game was too linear, literally hallways. No side missions until 2/3rd of the game.
To me, graphically pushing a console to the limit is what SE does. Imo, it's part of telling a story from a visual aspect. Telling a story is still important in most FF games. Gameplay, as long as it isn't broken, can have a lot of outlooks formed. Is it too easy, too short, too long, too hard, not enough options, too many options, etc. etc.? These can vary from person to person.
So imagine this response on what FF to a veteran, probably the same things you highlighted, although....because of experience can say things more confidently and not casually say "depends on the person".
Yes, when a person wants something to evolve, they may not get something like-able in the process. Some people will become upset, some will be so-so, and some others will like the changes. Satisfying every person, especially with how diverse FF has become, is impossible. You are damned if you change, and you are damned if you stay the same. I have no problem with people liking the series for different reasons from other people. I don't mind the diversity, despite the lack of unity that forms from it. It's one of the most controversial franchises of all time, and I personally wouldn't want to have it any other way. Imo, it's a gift and a curse that makes the franchise stick out like a sore thumb and blessing in the gaming market. Maybe I'm selfish for wishing that. Maybe you find it annoying since it makes it more difficult to connect with people with your viewpoints.
The biggest reasoning behind why you want it the way you think it is, is flawed. First off, the series is diverse, but not the way you think it is. Its definitely not a catch all, meant for all type of series. Its known to have one of the greatest RPGs out there. thats why its so popular. The series is controversial recently for the very reason that it hasn't been up to par with the quality of games....before, it was the goldenboy of RPGs.

I agree that its selfish, but that's an understatement because you generally lack understanding of FF. and it doesn't take a new player to misunderstand FF. sure their new, but they dont say wild things about what makes FF like you just did. everything you've pointed out so far has been inaccurate. Whats so frustrating about this is that each passing response just shows so out of touch you are with the series overall.
I am glad that you'll focus more of your time and energy on something that does actually interest you in the future. It'll probably save you some grief in the future.
You misread my comment....i wont stop talking about WoFF, but i will ONLY talk about WoFF from this point on, i dont want to hear no backside or ulterior desires for the series. I'm here to speak about why WoFF is selling out, particularly why WoFF is selling out the worst way than any other game so far (yes, even worst than Final Fantasy: all the bravest).

if you want to understand why i think this game in particular is selling out, be my guess and at least show an attempt at it. but my guess is that your vision of perfection within the series is how divided it is. and every comment you've done was disregard over-generalize, and not even a genuine attempt to understand while only claiming you cannot. here's a hint: when someone wants to understand someone, they generally ask questions.
 

FinalxxSin

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TLDR; Just because you work for something, doesn't always mean you'll get it.

Let me repeat myself: "It doesn't bother me". You are 100% free to have whatever viewpoint that you have. My intention at the start and even now wasn't to "understand" where you're coming from, but rather the reason why you felt venting over the topic in the first place. Your post could have been "I don't like this game", and I personally wouldn't have wanted to dig deeper. In other words, I only cared about the beginning result and not the middle nor end. You may have noticed that by how I wasn't asking a lot of questions back.

It really does depend on the person though. Different people may or may not reach the same conclusion. Me and another person could read a book for example, but there may be things that person picks up on that go over my head and vice-versa. The degree of enjoyment could be different as well. Expectations could be different. See what you did there---->You mentioned how past titles was considered the "goldenboy of RPGS". Not every person is going to have the same "Golden Era". What I think of FF is my own opinion. Take it with a grain of salt if you wish. However, I am doing the same with you in the realms of taking it with a grain of salt. Your comments are not without validness.....it's the lack of care on my end. My experience tells me that people are different. Ultimately, it's me and the game. Nobody else is involved in that process (unless we are dealing with multi-player games). If I pick up a game and enjoy it, and you dislike it, (or vice-versa) it isn't going to ruin my day in the slightest.

Perfection does not exist in this world. Even if it did exist, it would be the means of an end. Advancement would no longer become possible. Yes, let's ignore the internet being much more blown up playing a role in the controversy of the franchise. I could go to a site and ask one of two simple questions: "What is your favorite FF title and why?" or "What is your least favorite FF title and why?" I wouldn't get the same answers over and over again nearly as much as I would if I were to ask that question with a different franchise. Imo, this is generation "bitch and moan just because I can". This isn't directed at you, but that's just the general way I see things now with a lot of people on the internet, especially with a good chunk of the FF fanbase.
 

CassinoChips

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This is a happy occasion. Let's not bicker and argue over who killed who.

Seriously, enough. No need to argue in thread. If it's not on topic, take it elsewhere.
 

Razberry Knight

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i rather close the thread and start a new, with heavy details on why i feel the way i feel about the situation. but for some reason, the forum wont give me the option.
 
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