Will Loveless be the epic poem this time?

Dionysos

Βρεκεκεκὲξ κοὰξ κοάξ
Staff member
Administrator
Veteran
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
5,580
Location
Somewhere.
Gil
6,604
Gold Points
139
Community Tokens
138
FFXIV
Polyphemos Bromios
FFXIV Server
Lamia
Unmissable as the player sees the bustling streets of Midgar for the first time, the Loveless poster in the original Final Fantasy VII was so iconic and memorable that the Compilation material decided to expand on it and change its nature.

In the original, it was simply a poster for My Bloody Valentine's album Loveless. Though it is, as far as I am aware, an original poster design (showing a standing woman) and not at all the official artwork of the album.

The name of the band is clearly visible though.

1563816644975.jpeg


Now it still appears to have been imagined as a play in the original game... The poster may suggest a date and time of a performance, and also Cid refers to Loveless as a play sometime late in the original game and mentions the sister of the main character asking her lover why he has to leave and him promising to return.

However, with the connection to My Bloody Valentine (and the contemporary '90s look of the poster itself), it was probably not conceived to be an epic poem at that time.

By the time of Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII, things change forever. Here Loveless becomes an epic poem not unlike our world's Iliad, Odyssey or Aeneid. To Genesis (a Loveless fanatic), it becomes a sort of Bible and picks up a religious significance (which the lore then sort-of confirms to be not entirely unfounded).




What started off as a simple allusion to a (then) contemporary band as mere background decoration grew into a major plot device for the prequel. Genesis connects the story of the poem with the characters in the game and is determined to understand and fulfill the prophecy within.


-


We know, at least, that the poster will be returning in the Remake (minus any visible references to My Bloody Valentine).



So my question regarding the Remake is this:
Do you think the game will make more references to the Loveless epic poem? Is the play merely a contemporary adaptation of the poem? Will we be able to see the play version? Would you like it if we did?

Genesis is a Marmite character, so if you didn't like him and the play was in isolation, would you welcome it then?


Myself? If we do get a rendition of this, I really hope they expand on it and improve it. What we are told is the poem in Crisis Core isn't much of an epic poem at all. Each act is about the size of a single short verse. It feels like an abridged version. It would only just cover a page of the book Genesis likes to carry around with him.


Thoughts?
 

Ilyena

The mighty arms of Atlas
Staff member
Administrator
Veteran
Joined
Jun 17, 2007
Messages
3,845
Location
Wouldn't you like to know?
Gil
1,893
Gold Points
51
Community Tokens
33
FFXIV
Ilyena Frost
FFXIV Server
Lamia
I have not played any of the prequels so I wasn't aware that Loveless was turned into an epic poem. If SE is trying to incorporate lore from the prequels as well then it will probably be an epic poem in the remake as well. I can't imagine too many complaints over that as epic poems have been turned into plays many times.

If that's the case, the poster looks like it would be a contemporary rendition. Since you leave Midgar so early in the game, I'm not sure the characters would really be able to see it or SE could turn it into some kind of side item/extra thing to do.
 

Mitsuki

Staff member
Administrator
Veteran
Joined
Dec 14, 2006
Messages
11,484
Location
California
Gil
5,374
Gold Points
104
Community Tokens
99
FFXIV
Mitsuki Calei
FFXIV Server
Lamia
Free Company
Gaia
I've played and beaten Crisis Core, so I'd like to see them expand on this more. Why not? I mean the poem is beautiful. A play version would be nice too!

Just for context, here's the poem:

Prologue
When the war of the beasts brings about the world's end
The goddess descends from the sky
Wings of light and dark spread afar
She guides us to bliss, her gift everlasting

Act I
Infinite in mystery is the gift of the Goddess
We seek it thus, and take to the sky
Ripples form on the water's surface
The wandering soul knows no rest

Act II
There is no hate, only joy
For you are beloved by the goddess
Hero of the dawn, Healer of worlds

Dreams of the morrow hath the shattered soul
Pride is lost
Wings stripped away, the end is nigh

Act III
My friend, do you fly away now?
To a world that abhors you and I?
All that awaits you is a somber morrow
No matter where the winds may blow

My friend, your desire
Is the bringer of life, the gift of the goddess

Even if the morrow is barren of promises
Nothing shall forestall my return

Act IV
My friend, the fates are cruel
There are no dreams, no honor remains
The arrow has left the bow of the goddess

My soul, corrupted by vengeance
Hath endured torment, to find the end of the journey
In my own salvation
And your eternal slumber

Legend shall speak
Of sacrifice at world's end
The wind sails over the water's surface
Quietly, but surely

Act V
Even if the morrow is barren of promises
Nothing shall forestall my return
To become the dew that quenches the land
To spare the sands, the seas, the skies
I offer thee this silent sacrifice


 
  • Like
Reactions: Six

Flower Bell

I myself am strange and unusual
Veteran
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Messages
7,083
Gil
3,262
Gold Points
14
Community Tokens
34
Not sure how closely everyone here follows this, but the JPN FF7R twitter recently made a tweet about the LOVELESS play becoming a musical now. The English tweet doesn't specify if it's a play or a musical, but the Japanese said it was now a musical:

1566515304239.png


1566515122340.png



(here's the concept arts in case anyone cares)

EA9QF80WsAErXOV (1).jpg


EA9QF81XoAElvEe (1).jpg





This is interesting because the LOVELESS play has always been referred to as "劇" in JPN, and now it is very clearly a "musical / ミュージカル". A lot of JPN fans were really excited about this change.

I personally feel like since PART 1 will be just Midgar, that Square Enix will try and work in an optional "date" similar to the Gold Saucer date. After all, they said they plan to bulk up this part of the story, so what better way to do that than to have Cloud do a mini-side-quest there. Or maybe it will just be a mission to infiltrate for information. Either way, I feel like the "play" will now be entirely different from what the original and CC made it out to be. Especially since Nomura said that the compilation and remake won't align anymore.

I'm curious to know why they made sure to say "notice the LOVELESS sign", all my clerith mind goes to is how Aerith is standing right under it lmao
 

Dionysos

Βρεκεκεκὲξ κοὰξ κοάξ
Staff member
Administrator
Veteran
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
5,580
Location
Somewhere.
Gil
6,604
Gold Points
139
Community Tokens
138
FFXIV
Polyphemos Bromios
FFXIV Server
Lamia
Not sure how closely everyone here follows this, but the JPN FF7R twitter recently made a tweet about the LOVELESS play becoming a musical now. The English tweet doesn't specify if it's a play or a musical, but the Japanese said it was now a musical:

View attachment 7958

View attachment 7957


(here's the concept arts in case anyone cares)

View attachment 7955

View attachment 7956




This is interesting because the LOVELESS play has always been referred to as "劇" in JPN, and now it is very clearly a "musical / ミュージカル". A lot of JPN fans were really excited about this change.

I personally feel like since PART 1 will be just Midgar, that Square Enix will try and work in an optional "date" similar to the Gold Saucer date. After all, they said they plan to bulk up this part of the story, so what better way to do that than to have Cloud do a mini-side-quest there. Or maybe it will just be a mission to infiltrate for information. Either way, I feel like the "play" will now be entirely different from what the original and CC made it out to be. Especially since Nomura said that the compilation and remake won't align anymore.

I'm curious to know why they made sure to say "notice the LOVELESS sign", all my clerith mind goes to is how Aerith is standing right under it lmao
Woah!
That's fantastic.

I think I'd love it if it was a musical and we actually got to sit in the theatre and watch it. That would surely become a classic Final Fantasy moment in an instant. Whether they play this seriously (like the drama the play / epic poem is supposed to be) or for comic relief (with a rendition which is poorly acted, or ruined by cheesy songs) I'm sure it'll be entertaining.

Or... It might remain background filler and nothing more. But it is nice that they are revealing something about the form of Loveless in the Remake universe.

So this makes the question of the thread all the more relevant... Will this musical be just another adaptation of the plot of the epic poem (the form it took in Crisis Core)? Or will it be something entirely different and entirely new?

This could be interesting.
 

Flower Bell

I myself am strange and unusual
Veteran
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Messages
7,083
Gil
3,262
Gold Points
14
Community Tokens
34
I hope it's different. I liked the original idea of the story better than the convoluted poem from CC. It felt too "aware" of itself and kind of hammy what with how hard it tried to be "epic" and hold a "deeper" meaning. I think the CC version is def about Aerith's sacrifice as well as Jenova's arrival, but it's executed poorly IMO and they made it about Genesis instead for some wonky reason.

I was hoping that if the LOVELESS musical *is* a mission, it happens after the first bombing and Cloud and co. have to break in and do some spying/stealing in order to do the second bombing mission. Similar to the play in FF6, how it's just going on while the mission is unfolding. I think that would be really fun and cool.

This thread reminded me of another poem in FF7.


......The wind's calm now......
It's the curse of the resurrected Satan... Our beloved Queen does not awaken...
The time is ripe...
A legend has been passed on through generations...

時は満ちた……

The time has come for…

『…古代よりかの地に伝わる伝説…』

an ancient legend that has been told across the land…

……求めるは、約束の地……

to seek the promised land

……青きひとみもつもの……

he with blue eyes

……白刃の大剣を背に……

and a large sword on his back

……約束の地へ導かん……

will lead the way to the promised land
Which can be seen during the Honey Bee inn mission:

The story must have come from somewhere, and I used to assume it was part of the LOVELESS play, and later the "lost chapter" from Crisis Core. I hope if the LOVELESS play changes in tone at all, from a love story to something dark/deep, I hope that it's more about Jenova's arrival than anything.
 

Dionysos

Βρεκεκεκὲξ κοὰξ κοάξ
Staff member
Administrator
Veteran
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
5,580
Location
Somewhere.
Gil
6,604
Gold Points
139
Community Tokens
138
FFXIV
Polyphemos Bromios
FFXIV Server
Lamia
I hope it's different. I liked the original idea of the story better than the convoluted poem from CC. It felt too "aware" of itself and kind of hammy what with how hard it tried to be "epic" and hold a "deeper" meaning. I think the CC version is def about Aerith's sacrifice as well as Jenova's arrival, but it's executed poorly IMO and they made it about Genesis instead for some wonky reason.

I was hoping that if the LOVELESS musical *is* a mission, it happens after the first bombing and Cloud and co. have to break in and do some spying/stealing in order to do the second bombing mission. Similar to the play in FF6, how it's just going on while the mission is unfolding. I think that would be really fun and cool.

This thread reminded me of another poem in FF7.




Which can be seen during the Honey Bee inn mission:

The story must have come from somewhere, and I used to assume it was part of the LOVELESS play, and later the "lost chapter" from Crisis Core. I hope if the LOVELESS play changes in tone at all, from a love story to something dark/deep, I hope that it's more about Jenova's arrival than anything.
You know, I don't think I've ever seen that in full! I knew about those scenes, of course, but I've not seen them all complete and together enough to really examine the words being spoken. Wow!

I wonder if those scenes could be incorporated into the Remake, and if they will expand on what they mean. To me the most immediate interpretation of the poem President Shinra relates in the original game would be that of a prophecy about the events that were about to happen. The 'resurrected Satan' would be Sephiroth or Jenova, 'he with blue eyes and a large sword on his back' could be Sephiroth, Zack or Cloud but most likely Sephiroth or Cloud referring to the Promised Land (and most, most likely Cloud as Sephiroth doesn't really wear his sword on his back). The music which plays during this is ominous as well, as it is the same track which plays when President Shinra is murdered by Sephiroth/Jenova in the Shinra HQ (Trail of Blood).

So I think this text (to the player) cryptically foreshadows the plot that is about to unfold. But within the game, it could also feasibly be worked into an expansion of Loveless if they take it in that direction. Crisis Core's version included prophecies (or cryptic lines which were interpreted as prophecies about the future by Genesis) and were worked into the plot of that game, so it wouldn't be too crazy if they did something similar here, hopefully executed brilliantly.

But I just hope that it isn't too blatant. I'd like it to feel like an organic piece of literature adapted for a musical. I don't want it to seem like it is very obviously about Sephiroth, Cloud, etc, in the way that they made it about Genesis in Crisis Core. It's fine if they want to examine how people can see themselves in famous works, but I hope the composition of the play itself could also stand alone from that interpretation and also be entertaining.

I think I'd be happy with seeing the Loveless musical during a mission attempting to gather intel (as you describe). That would be seriously cool.
 
Top