Why does everybody have to bash XIII???

KrisPistofferson

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1.Because people lack the the humility to admit any level of subjectivity in their criticism/praise of a game.

2.Because people in anonymous settings (the internet) tend to be far less diplomatic in what they say. Some merely show up to get a negative reaction.("trolling.")

3.Because Final Fantasy changes with every iteration, compounding with points 1 and 2 to make a perfect storm of frustrating silliness for fans of the overall series.

I haven't even logged into a discussion board about FF since 13 came out because I got sick of the BS. I don't see Gundam or Doctor Who fans do this to each other, even taking into account the internet is sort of a nasty neighborhood.

I mean, I'm sort of boring and middle-aged, the only other interest forums I've ever been to were for bicycles and a radio "shock jock" -type of show called Opie and Anthony. One day they were on complaining about the overwhelming negativity in their online fans. I called in to tell them that while their fans were a tad less polite than the biycle message board, but way better than the people talking about chocobos and moogles.

The broken fanbase seems to have calmed down a little based on recent developments, though. Makes me optimistic.
 

Razberry Knight

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Yup, knew it. For someone who doesn't like the menus clearly hates on the game. I just don't know how someone can dislike eye-candy.
The point isn't to fall for eye-candy. FF13 has to be gold before i can like the glitter. And ff13 is nothing but glitter. And it shows clear as day, thats all it really matters to you. TO me, i would like real substanance in a game. and i admit, not all FF games have it. that doesn't mean i shouldn't expect it.

The music was beautiful and one of the best. I wouldn't say the gameplay is the best but it still runs smoothly.
music was grand, but it wasn't what i would consider the best. I can see why one would say it, but i've heard many soundtracks that SEGA has made many times in the past very similar to it. So as grand as ff13's music was, it never sounds original.

Gameplay wise, you just prove my point how little you see this as a game.


The story was really well done and it had some really good moments. One of my favourite moments was in chapter 7 when you was in Hope's house in the dark fighting the guards. Barthandelous is one of the best FF antagonists of all time.
Fighting in the dark wasn't that great. in fact that scene hardly ever gets recognized. But the story, was NOT really well done. We're talking about a group of people who happen to get connected together, and work together. but they barely had any motive to stick together.

Barthandelous however is hardly a villain at all. He barely interacted with the main cast, and really attempts to overcompensates than necessary. He had a very minor role. and they were making no progress whatsoever.

What is Barthandelus goal? Barthandelus was just "there". Not even real ff13 fans can defend Barthandelus for a villain.

What you need to understand is the most important thing is the feeling that the game gives you.
Yeah, but it should still be a GAME. FF13 was a heavy interactive movie. the optional missions barely did anything. And there was still no option to break free and roam, or even revisit.

understand that. For me, who wanted to play an entertaining RPG, which story is important to me as gameplay,

visuals matter very little. after all i find the most beautiful games in this world still happen to be 16-bit and 8-bit games.

1.Because people lack the the humility to admit any level of subjectivity in their criticism/praise of a game.
that will happen ANYWHERE.

2.Because people in anonymous settings (the internet) tend to be far less diplomatic in what they say. Some merely show up to get a negative reaction.("trolling.")
We're talking about someone who claims a game is amazing....purely for one aspect. an aspect that doesn't make or break it. So yeah....its like someone comes to a car dealer, and insists one is better than the other purely by the color.

3.Because Final Fantasy changes with every iteration, compounding with points 1 and 2 to make a perfect storm of frustrating silliness for fans of the overall series.
True fans follow from the beginning or at least follow the progression of the games can say a lot more. there have been bumps in the series. some smaller than others.

I haven't even logged into a discussion board about FF since 13 came out because I got sick of the BS. I don't see Gundam or Doctor Who fans do this to each other, even taking into account the internet is sort of a nasty neighborhood.
Doctor Who gets very similar issues. Constant arguing of which is the better Doctor, which is the better assistant, and which is the worst. especially when their separated y series. Many many fans have argued about it.

Same goes for Gundam, not as heavy because Gundam is SATURATED with merchandise. the large variation began from the very beginning. not like ff series. it stayed as a rpg for the longest time. although i also see fans criticize certain ones such as Gundam 00.
 

Sheechiibii

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I'm just saying that you didn't experience how good the game is because you played it on a rubbish television just like all the other people who talk bad about the game. I'm here to address that if you played FF13 on a proper television i.e a top plasma or lcd then you would experience how stunning and breathtaking the game really is. At the very least you would definitely cut the game some slack and say it was a joy to play.

I have a top of the range 50 inch 3D smart tv and I don't like FFXIII, it's my least favourite Final Fantasy games and one of my least favourite games of all the games I've played. Having pretty graphics does not make a game 'a joy to play' for me. I didn't like the story very much, or most of the characters. I have given the game so many chances and have replayed it to try and make myself like it more, but I just don't. I don't enjoy it at all. Not everyone who dislikes the game played it on a rubbish television. Not everyone values graphics as much as you do. Especially, as has been mentioned, these days when graphics are generally pretty stunning on all mainstream titles. Battle system sucked for me. Story sucked for me. Characters sucked for me. World-building, levelling system, lack of minigames...the game sucked at almost everything I value in a game.
 

Phosphoric Ooze

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The point isn't to fall for eye-candy. FF13 has to be gold before i can like the glitter. And ff13 is nothing but glitter. And it shows clear as day, thats all it really matters to you. TO me, i would like real substanance in a game. and i admit, not all FF games have it. that doesn't mean i shouldn't expect it.


music was grand, but it wasn't what i would consider the best. I can see why one would say it, but i've heard many soundtracks that SEGA has made many times in the past very similar to it. So as grand as ff13's music was, it never sounds original.

Gameplay wise, you just prove my point how little you see this as a game.


Fighting in the dark wasn't that great. in fact that scene hardly ever gets recognized. But the story, was NOT really well done. We're talking about a group of people who happen to get connected together, and work together. but they barely had any motive to stick together.

Barthandelous however is hardly a villain at all. He barely interacted with the main cast, and really attempts to overcompensates than necessary. He had a very minor role. and they were making no progress whatsoever.

What is Barthandelus goal? Barthandelus was just "there". Not even real ff13 fans can defend Barthandelus for a villain.


Yeah, but it should still be a GAME. FF13 was a heavy interactive movie. the optional missions barely did anything. And there was still no option to break free and roam, or even revisit.

understand that. For me, who wanted to play an entertaining RPG, which story is important to me as gameplay,

visuals matter very little. after all i find the most beautiful games in this world still happen to be 16-bit and 8-bit games.

You can't deny that FF13 has the best glitter out of all Final Fantasy games. I wouldn't say the music is the best because i've played FF7 (not all of it) and it's music is absolutely phenomenal to the point that it's even better than 13's music. I'm starting to play 13-2 now and the gameplay is much better than the first one. With cinematic actions the gameplay rocks.

I thought it was great and that scene should get recognised more because in my opinion chapter 7 is the best chapter. Look, the story was solid wether you like it or not. The story was so great that it was just like a movie and when you get far into the game you think of how far you've come through this long and fun journey. Most people would agree that Barthandelous is a villain. His theme is one of the best as well. In my opinion, Barthandelous should of been the final boss, not Orphan.

FF13 is a game that runs like a movie. Nothing wrong with that. I haven't played the optional missions yet but i know you can get a lot of stuff like the Growth Egg, New shop, new weapons, etc. So it didn't barely do anything. Why would you want to revisit? Movies go forward you know, they don't go backwards. You can roam and revisit in 13-2.

You're a FF fan that is run by nostalgia. If FF13 was made with FF6 or FF7 graphics you would hail the game so much.


I have a top of the range 50 inch 3D smart tv and I don't like FFXIII, it's my least favourite Final Fantasy games and one of my least favourite games of all the games I've played. Having pretty graphics does not make a game 'a joy to play' for me. I didn't like the story very much, or most of the characters. I have given the game so many chances and have replayed it to try and make myself like it more, but I just don't. I don't enjoy it at all. Not everyone who dislikes the game played it on a rubbish television. Not everyone values graphics as much as you do. Especially, as has been mentioned, these days when graphics are generally pretty stunning on all mainstream titles. Battle system sucked for me. Story sucked for me. Characters sucked for me. World-building, levelling system, lack of minigames...the game sucked at almost everything I value in a game.

So you played it on that tv and you still don't like it? Was it running at 1080p?

Obvious FF13 hater. What you need to understand is that FF13 is a 2009 game and it was a head of it's time because the graphics still look good now in 2015. It was made like a movie that should be replayed again and again. Did the FF13 world also suck for you? Like the places? One thing i didn't like about FF13 was that there where no towns that you can explore and buy items from. The save point was your shop lel.
 

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Let's respect each other's opinions, guys. Just because someone likes or dislikes a game it doesn't make their opinion invalid. ;)
 

Sheechiibii

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So you played it on that tv and you still don't like it? Was it running at 1080p?

Obvious FF13 hater. What you need to understand is that FF13 is a 2009 game and it was a head of it's time because the graphics still look good now in 2015. It was made like a movie that should be replayed again and again. Did the FF13 world also suck for you? Like the places? One thing i didn't like about FF13 was that there where no towns that you can explore and buy items from. The save point was your shop lel.

So anybody who has an opinion on something that isn't exactly the same as yours is a hater? Seriously? I love FFVIII, IX and X the most and guess what, bar FFX their graphics are pretty dated these days. I do not value graphics as much as you do. I said it already in the above quote: not everyone values graphics as much as you do. Pretty much every modern mainstream game these days looks great. But I don't play games for the graphics, I play them for the story and the gameplay. If all I wanted were pretty pictures I'd go to an art museum or watch James Cameron's Avatar.

You say FFXIII is made to be replayed again and again. Why? What is it that you think gives it such replay value? If the only thing you can say makes it great it the graphics then why bother replaying it? I wouldn't say the world itself sucked really, but I never felt like I was in a world, I felt like I was looking at pretty pictures while I walked down a narrow corridor. It didn't' feel like a world at all, so I'm indifferent about it. The game didn't make me care. The entire world and everyone in it could have been completely destroyed and I would have cared not a single bit. Because it didn't feel like a world full of people, it felt like a bunch of meaninglessly pretty backgrounds.

You say FFXIII is like a movie and I would agree, most Final Fantasy games have a very in depth story that way. The difference is that unlike the other FF games I've played, whose stories felt like great movies, even better than movies, FFXIII felt like a shitty movie I didn't care one bit about and had to force myself to keep watching.
 

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You can't deny that FF13 has the best glitter out of all Final Fantasy games.
It has the worst glitter of them all, because there's so much glitter. it decides to take out what could've been "gold" out of the game.
I wouldn't say the music is the best because i've played FF7 (not all of it) and it's music is absolutely phenomenal to the point that it's even better than 13's music. I'm starting to play 13-2 now and the gameplay is much better than the first one. With cinematic actions the gameplay rocks.
many people complained about the soundtrack of FF13-2, i am indifferent about it. i don't love it, but i didn't expect it to when i played the demo.
I thought it was great and that scene should get recognised more because in my opinion chapter 7 is the best chapter. Look, the story was solid wether you like it or not. The story was so great that it was just like a movie and when you get far into the game you think of how far you've come through this long and fun journey.
I've played many games that felt like a movie...but those games felt just as much as a game than a movie. With FF13 its purely movie, why not just be a movie? i didn't feel the story first hand. i felt like i playe dosme game elements and then switched to a movie.
Most people would agree that Barthandelous is a villain.
Yes, he's a villain, but not a great one.....you barely mention what makes him amazing. He talks in a very odd tone, he doesn't leave an impact to neither the cast or the player. Most of all, he wasn't iconic. Sephiroth, Kuja, and Seymour. All those characters are distinct and easy to distinguish. Barthandelous isn't one of those characters. His human form wasn't iconic, neither was his fal'cie (then again, hardly any of the falcie were iconics)His theme is one of the best as well. In my opinion, Barthandelous should of been the final boss, not Orphan.
FF13 is a game that runs like a movie. Nothing wrong with that.
FInal fantasy has always been about being a game just as much as it was about having movie elements. FFX, XII, and IX are games that had great cinematic scenes for their time and still allowed you to play.
I haven't played the optional missions yet but i know you can get a lot of stuff like the Growth Egg, New shop, new weapons, etc. So it didn't barely do anything. Why would you want to revisit? Movies go forward you know, they don't go backwards. You can roam and revisit in 13-2.
At this point you're not judging FF13 as if it was a game, you're just saying you like it, an don't really care for what reason. For the record: IN movies, they do return to areas, they don't always go from one area to another and never revisit it. But in games, you have control, and you have options to revisit. and one of the reasons why there is to revisit is because there are more to do. Thats what the problem with
You're a FF fan that is run by nostalgia. If FF13 was made with FF6 or FF7 graphics you would hail the game so much.
And you just claim to be one, just because one game introduced you to it and appealed to what you wanted. Just because it appealed to you, doesn't mean thats what FF is about.If a player who enjoys first person shooters, plays a first person shooter game called "Final fantasy [enter subtitle here]" and realize that is the one and only FF game that focuses on first person shooter elements, will you suddenly claim to be FF fan and all others are runned by nostalgia? Its not nostalgia....some of the things i expect in FF13 i expect not only in FF, but in most JRPGs. I expect more out of a game. I expect some form of freedom and options, and ways to unlock more. I expect that if i choose to play the game slightly different, the pacing would change. FF13 was restricting. all options were given to me later, but i didn't discover them, i didn't have to look for them. FF13 doesn't allow you to discover the world, it puts it all in datalogs in very tiny font. FF13 wasn't even a world. It was an acid trip.
So you played it on that tv and you still don't like it? Was it running at 1080p?
It really ticks me off you think that running a game on 1080p is what matters. that i will suddenly love the game seeing the graphics? i already know what they look like.
Obvious FF13 hater. What you need to understand is that FF13 is a 2009 game and it was a head of it's time because the graphics still look good now in 2015. It was made like a movie that should be replayed again and again. Did the FF13 world also suck for you? Like the places? One thing i didn't like about FF13 was that there where no towns that you can explore and buy items from. The save point was your shop lel.
of course i'm an FF13 hater! i'm not denying. i'm fuly completely admitting it, and with pride! I bought the game with my own money when it first came out, and i didn't feel satisfied when i got to the end. the gameplay wasn't engaging. Some of the gameplay elements that weren't fully accepted back then were brought back, but worst. I tried selling the game, no one would buy it. i had it for a year until i finally got rid of it. FF13 was just a ride...you go in, and it takes you where FF13 wants you to go. And do you really think having no towns was a bust for FF13? you just defended not returning to any areas. When people complain about having no towns, they FF13 wasn't ahead of its time. plenty and i mean PLENTY of early first gen games focused so hard on graphics. Grand Theft Auto games, Infamous and even Heavenly Sword were games that looked realistic. Heavenly Sword was one of the most amazing graphics out there, AND it was fun. it was an action game, it wasn't an RPG. it was linear but pushed replayability by looking for hidden objects to unlock concept art and videos.
 

CassinoChips

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The next person who double posts will have a steaming hot poker shoved somewhere unpleasant.

Or I'll just merge the posts and send you a reminder PM.

Most likely the latter.

Please don't double post.
 

Phosphoric Ooze

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So anybody who has an opinion on something that isn't exactly the same as yours is a hater? Seriously? I love FFVIII, IX and X the most and guess what, bar FFX their graphics are pretty dated these days. I do not value graphics as much as you do. I said it already in the above quote: not everyone values graphics as much as you do. Pretty much every modern mainstream game these days looks great. But I don't play games for the graphics, I play them for the story and the gameplay. If all I wanted were pretty pictures I'd go to an art museum or watch James Cameron's Avatar. You say FFXIII is made to be replayed again and again. Why? What is it that you think gives it such replay value? If the only thing you can say makes it great it the graphics then why bother replaying it? I wouldn't say the world itself sucked really, but I never felt like I was in a world, I felt like I was looking at pretty pictures while I walked down a narrow corridor. It didn't' feel like a world at all, so I'm indifferent about it. The game didn't make me care. The entire world and everyone in it could have been completely destroyed and I would have cared not a single bit. Because it didn't feel like a world full of people, it felt like a bunch of meaninglessly pretty backgrounds.You say FFXIII is like a movie and I would agree, most Final Fantasy games have a very in depth story that way. The difference is that unlike the other FF games I've played, whose stories felt like great movies, even better than movies, FFXIII felt like a shitty movie I didn't care one bit about and had to force myself to keep watching.
No, you're a hater for not fully experiencing how stunning and breathtaking the game is. Then you lied for saying you've played the game on a top of the range tv. Surely nobody would hate one of best looking games that runs in the highest quality. It's not a question if you do or do not value graphics as much as me because what you need to understand is that Final Fantasy's forte is GRAPHICS. Yeah, you can talk about the music and presentation but their real strength is graphics. Why do you think they made movies like The Spirits Within and Advent Children? It's to showcase what they do best.FF13 is made to be replayed again and again because it runs like a movie and films are meant to be re-watched. FF13 has such replay value because after completing the main story you can do the post game. The same couldn't be said about the other FF games because after game over you can't do anything else but replay the entire game again. What fun would that be? If you say graphics is the only good thing about FF13 then by your logic, Avatar the movie can only be watched once. The real difference is that all other 12 games don't run like a movie unlike 13. They feel like any other normal game. With FF13 you stop and think how far you've come to get to this point in the game. FF13 maybe a crappy movie to you but at least it felt like a movie. The same couldn't be said about the other 12 games. Oh well, at least you have nostalgia to fall back on so you can remember the great *cough* stories.You should ask yourself the same question because it's obviously for you to answer. Why are all the other 12 games made to be replayed again and again? Why is it that you think gives them such replay value? The answer is that the other FF games have no replay value therefore shouldn't be replayed again and again. Plain and simple. Unless you want to waste your time. There's a saying, Time Is Precious.
It has the worst glitter of them all, because there's so much glitter. it decides to take out what could've been "gold" out of the game. many people complained about the soundtrack of FF13-2, i am indifferent about it. i don't love it, but i didn't expect it to when i played the demo. I've played many games that felt like a movie...but those games felt just as much as a game than a movie. With FF13 its purely movie, why not just be a movie? i didn't feel the story first hand. i felt like i playe dosme game elements and then switched to a movie. Yes, he's a villain, but not a great one.....you barely mention what makes him amazing. He talks in a very odd tone, he doesn't leave an impact to neither the cast or the player. Most of all, he wasn't iconic. Sephiroth, Kuja, and Seymour. All those characters are distinct and easy to distinguish. Barthandelous isn't one of those characters. His human form wasn't iconic, neither was his fal'cie (then again, hardly any of the falcie were iconics)His theme is one of the best as well. In my opinion, Barthandelous should of been the final boss, not Orphan. FInal fantasy has always been about being a game just as much as it was about having movie elements. FFX, XII, and IX are games that had great cinematic scenes for their time and still allowed you to play. At this point you're not judging FF13 as if it was a game, you're just saying you like it, an don't really care for what reason. For the record: IN movies, they do return to areas, they don't always go from one area to another and never revisit it. But in games, you have control, and you have options to revisit. and one of the reasons why there is to revisit is because there are more to do. Thats what the problem with And you just claim to be one, just because one game introduced you to it and appealed to what you wanted. Just because it appealed to you, doesn't mean thats what FF is about.If a player who enjoys first person shooters, plays a first person shooter game called "Final fantasy [enter subtitle here]" and realize that is the one and only FF game that focuses on first person shooter elements, will you suddenly claim to be FF fan and all others are runned by nostalgia? Its not nostalgia....some of the things i expect in FF13 i expect not only in FF, but in most JRPGs. I expect more out of a game. I expect some form of freedom and options, and ways to unlock more. I expect that if i choose to play the game slightly different, the pacing would change. FF13 was restricting. all options were given to me later, but i didn't discover them, i didn't have to look for them. FF13 doesn't allow you to discover the world, it puts it all in datalogs in very tiny font. FF13 wasn't even a world. It was an acid trip. It really ticks me off you think that running a game on 1080p is what matters. that i will suddenly love the game seeing the graphics? i already know what they look like. of course i'm an FF13 hater! i'm not denying. i'm fuly completely admitting it, and with pride! I bought the game with my own money when it first came out, and i didn't feel satisfied when i got to the end. the gameplay wasn't engaging. Some of the gameplay elements that weren't fully accepted back then were brought back, but worst. I tried selling the game, no one would buy it. i had it for a year until i finally got rid of it. FF13 was just a ride...you go in, and it takes you where FF13 wants you to go. And do you really think having no towns was a bust for FF13? you just defended not returning to any areas. When people complain about having no towns, they FF13 wasn't ahead of its time. plenty and i mean PLENTY of early first gen games focused so hard on graphics. Grand Theft Auto games, Infamous and even Heavenly Sword were games that looked realistic. Heavenly Sword was one of the most amazing graphics out there, AND it was fun. it was an action game, it wasn't an RPG. it was linear but pushed replayability by looking for hidden objects to unlock concept art and videos.
Just stop with the nonsense. Where's the 'gold' in the others? Terrible graphics by today's standards you deem as gold? Pathetic. What 13-2 soundtrack? Elaborate. They should of made FF13 into a proper CGI movie. I wouldn't mind if that happened.You're only saying that about Barthandelous because it must of taken you over 20 times to beat him on the first encounter :)The impression I got from Barthandelous when facing him for the very first time that it was like staring into the face of defeat. Now how many other FF antagonists could you say the exact same thing about? None. So I disagree for him not being iconic. You're talking about characters like Sephiroth, who is legendary. I know an antagonist from the FF13 world that even surpasses the mighty Sephiroth. His name is Caius Ballad, and he would crush every single Final Fantasy antagonist that came before him. He's on a different level. All the other 12 Final Fantasy's are games. Final Fantasy 13 is a game/movie. It was meant to be replayed again and again. The game is 5 years old and still looks good for today's standards.Like I said, FF13 is a game/movie so it can be judged as a game or movie. You're getting confused now because when a movie plays it goes forwards and stops when it finishes. FF13 is a journey and now you want a journey to go backwards? Funny. Look, there is plenty to do in 13 because of the post game. All that you're doing is showing yet again that you're an hater. What's there to do in other FF games? Yep, thought so. After credits roll the games are 100% finished. Dosen't happen in 13.A movie introduced me to Final Fantasy my friend, not FF13. Anyone that says FF13 is terrible is clearly run by nostalgia. It's nostalgia and that's why you'll never accept that your favourite FF game is surpassed by another FF game Plain and simple. What you need to understand is that some games are just meant to be played in 1080p full high definition. FF13 is one of them. No, it's just only to show you how stunning and breathtaking the game really is. You don't know what they look like. High definition enhances the game and without it you're playing a game that's not crisp and clean. A suggestion, play a game running without HD and play a game running in full HD. The difference is huge. By your logic, it's like playing Final Fantasy 15 with no high definition.I know you're a hater. It's obvious.I just thought it was enjoyable exploring a town and then go to a shop. Well at least there is a shop in 13-2 (Chocolina) instead of using your save point as a shop. Chocolina will come in handy. Again, FF13 only goes in one direction and that's forward. If you know a trick on how to go backwards while on a journey then please tell me. FF13 was a head of it's time and that's fact. It has one of the best graphics that I've ever seen in a game. Final Fantasy 15 will destroy it in graphics though to be newly named the FF with the best graphics.
 

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Please take a friendlier approach in your arguments. That will be greatly appreciated, everyone.
 

Sheechiibii

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No, you're a hater for not fully experiencing how stunning and breathtaking the game is. Then you lied for saying you've played the game on a top of the range tv. Surely nobody would hate one of best looking games that runs in the highest quality.

You're calling me a liar? That's it, I'm not wasting another moment on you, you're definitely a troll. Good one for having us going for so long, but there's no way a rational person would be this way. You're 100% a troll. No point in even reading the rest of your wall of text since it's no doubt just more nonsense written to insight a reaction out of the people here. I hope you get banned.
 

AuronX

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@Phosphoric Ooze @Sheechiibii please cut back on the personal accusations, both of you. Even if you feel your accusation is true, this isn't the place for personal attacks. Concerns with other members can be taken to staff to be addressed.

As it is, I'm going to close this thread. Everyone has said their piece and I don't see it coming back around to a calm and reasonable discussion. @Phosphoric Ooze remember there is a difference between facts and opinions--asserting your opinions as fact solely on the basis that they are your opinions is generally going to be inflammatory to other members who hold different opinions. If you want to express your opinions that is fine, but please do so in a way that acknowledges there is generally more than one valid opinion on anything related to Final Fantasy.

And to everyone: continued personal accusations will not be tolerated. Play nice!
 
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