Why did Sin attack DZ (SPOILER ALERT)

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Breon

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Ok I know that yu yevon summoned Dream Zanarkand and all its inhabitants like Tidus and Jecht and that Sin is an armor of Yu Yevon made by him fusing with an Aeon and also to destroy machina and prevent civilisation growth. But why exactly did it attack Dream Zanarkand? And also how does Jecht end up in Spira? I've heard that DZ exists in a physical location near Baaj temple so does that mean anyone from there can get to the rest of Spira and vice versa? If so how come nobody has ever found it surely the aiship should see it at least? Sorry for all of the questions :P but rather than make loadsa threads and since the game doesn't make everything clear and I've searched a lot for these things that I already know as it is. Thanks in advance for any answers, theorys or to point out any mistakes I may have done (New)
 
:ffs: Im sure they should teach this stuff in school/college?

Dream Zanarkand is not located anywhere ON Spira.
Its a summoned realm, possibly created entirely by the Fayth, it not on Spira itself,
the fact sinned attacked DZis either an event that occurred 1000 years prior and was just an occurrence in the revived history of Zanarkand that was replayed.

Replayed for the purpose of Bringing Tidus to Spira,to shake thing up.........but more on that later. It stands to reason that given Jecht is sin, and that sin is the summoned form of Yu Yevon in a fashion of armor and that Jecht has at least some control over the "ARMOR"

At no point are we told canonically that the Sin who attacked Dream Zanarkand is the Sin currently tormenting Spira, but they are connected through Jecht and that could be all that was needed? a connection to DZ from Spira via the Temporally disposed SIN.

Jecht was brought to Spira by the Fayth Its open to speculation "WHY?"
they brought him there, but its my opinion that he would see the error of his ways through the injustice of Spira and would change enough to sacrifice himself and
for the greater good, and this is where the pact with Aron comes into play.

Do I have to explain that part?:gonk:
 
Spoilers.

It's been awhile since I've played the game in depth, but I can help a little.

As for Sin attacking the Tidus-enduring Zanarkand at the beginning, I always thought that that was the real world, and that Sin transported Tidus into the future Spira. I'll come back to this.

Also at the beginning of the game (or maybe a little ways into it) it's menitoned that Jecht was lost at sea while fishing. It's a cutscene involving Auron, a yound Tidus, and Tidus' mother. That (again, as I take it) is when Jecht was taken to Spira. It's never really detailed how Jecht arrives there (not that I remember), and the only evidence of him showing up in Spira is in the Jecht sphere cutscenes you collect.

Back to the top part again, and this is really just theory, since a lot of it is left out:

Sin, as we know it in the game, is
Jecht
, who uses Sins powers to take Tidus (escorted nicely by Auron) to the future Spira. Tidus is the 'key' to defeating Sin, as by doing so he would be driven by Sin being
Jecht
to come up with a way to finally kill it, instead of inducing the Calm again.

Now, that last paragraph is just my interpretation of all of that. And, sad to say, I haven't played the game in a long time, so I may be forgetting some things.

Edit: I seem to have been bested by Galaxy. So much for coming back with a bang.

/noonerememberswhoiam.

:)
 
Galaxy; Square released a book I forgot what it was called I think its called ultimania and it clearly states that DZ is is summoned in the same way as an Aeon and is physically located on Spira near Baaj temple. And although the sin that attacks DZ could be part of the fayths dream but since yu yevon wants to have a perfect Zanarkand why would he have it have to go through that suffering again? And Yu Yevon wishes to protect his DZ why would he intentionally bring out Tidus to "shake things up" if he is such a threat? My theory is that Jecht and Auron planned to get Tidus out of there (like sheru kai said) but Sin started destroying the large machina run civilisation. And Seru-Kai there isn't any time travel at all that is what is said at the start of the game but Tidus and the whole of that Zanarkand is a giant Aeon/collection of Aeons dreamt using the fayths on Mt Gagazet.
 
Breon said:
And Seru-Kai there isn't any time travel at all that is what is said at the start of the game but Tidus and the whole of that Zanarkand is a giant Aeon/collection of Aeons dreamt using the fayths on Mt Gagazet.
Click to expand...

Right-o. I'm remembering more and more, just ignore the stupid sections of my last post.
 
@Seru-Kai its not stupid the game is very unclear I had to read a lot of stuff to find out what I do know. And galaxy I don't have all the answers I simply stated facts so as to avoid people posting stuff I already know and its just a theory about WHY sin attacked DZ and wondered if anybody else had other theories or in fact maybe somebody knows the actual answer since the story is quite complex. Sorry if I offended you by my misinterpretation of what a forum is. No need to attack me :S
 
I completely whiffed on the fact that the dream Zanarkand was in fact, a dream Zanarkand. Grasping straws here, but I always thought the fayth were still tied to the real world, trapped in Aeons and places like the dream Zanarkand. Sort of like being linked to Spira, yet never known, always in the background.

Tidus could've been involved like mentioned eariler as a way to stop Yu Yevon. He could've served as a catalyst to break the Calm chain, and end Sin once and for all.

I don't think Yu Yevon wanted a perfect Spira? It may have looked that way or even seemed like it to Yu Yevon, but the entire world of Spira was built around the constant ravaging with Sin. Sure, they dangle the 'if you are pure, Sin will vanish' reasoning, but they (they being the Maesters [sp]) know that the world will always rely on machina. And while machina still exists, so will Sin.

I forgot who exactly said it, but I always like a quote that went something like...."Spira is an endless cycle of death" (paraphrased most likely, it's either Seymour or the really old Maester of Yevon).
 
Yeah I remember that it was Maester mika the really old one that said it and I remember Auron later adding to that. But I don't know if this is mentioned in the game but I had to find this out by other means so here's what I've found out about sin.

SPOILER BELOW

The war between Bevelles machina and Zanarkands summons is the main catalyst, Zanarkands machines were only to power the city etc. And when losing yu yevon got loads of people made them into fayth to create a dream Zanarkand before its ruination and also created sin with the purpose to destroy Machina and large civilisations as to prevent this happening again but yu yevon lost control and now sin just goes around destroying any large gatherings etc. This causes the belief of not using machina will make it go away etc. As for the fayth they are in spira and the way to look at Dream Zanarkand best would be to think of it as a giant Aeon/compilation of Aeons that are constantly summoned.
 
Umm ok so i'm confused.

Here's what i gathered from the information you guys/girls posted.

-1000 years ago, Bevelle and Zanarkand waged a war (The machina War.)

-As a last Ditch effort to save/preserve the memories ect, the survivors of the war became 'the fayth' (Hence, the Fayth Scar and the Fayth of the temples.).

-Meanwhile, Yu Yevon tries to summon "the Ultimate Aeon" to destroy Zanarkand and Machina.

-The Fayth dream up 'A Zanarkand that never sleeps' (DZ).

-Tidus's father goes missing off the coast of DZ 10 years prior to FFX.

-10 years later, Sin (Which is Jecht due to defeating the previous sin and becoming the final aeon), traverses the dreams of the fayth and transports Tidus into 'Spira'.

Am i missing anything important?

Also, Yu Yevon wasn't the one who 'transported' Tidus to Spira, it was Jecht. He wanted Tidus to see Spira, to Kill Sin (him) once and for all as a final wish. That, and Yu yevon's 'summoning' is never ending, sin is just the armour for that face with tentacles.
 
Yes that is almost perfect except I think you meant to put sin was made to destroy bevelle and machina rather than zanarkand. I think zanarkands destruction was down to sin not distinguishing between which machina to destroy rather than just destroy weapons.
 
Bree thats not right son.

Zanarkand was meant to be Destroyed by Sin.Bevelle was Not to be destroyed.

The Dream of the Fayth was to Put an end to the war and preserve the Memory,not individual memories, but the collective consciousness of all the people of Zanarkand (hence the theory Shuyin is the Real Tidus, but the Fayth made him different).

Think about: Why create a weapon of mass destruction(SIN) to destroy your enemy,but at the same time sacrifice yourself for a cause of preservation, Sin was created to Preserve/protect Yu Yevon for the continuous Summoning.

Not as an Offensive weapon against Bevell, Otherwise why is Bevell still standing and Zanarkand is not? SIN can obviously destroy a city, so why didnt he destroy bevell?

Because he was not mean to. He was just Armor not a weapon.

The Final Aeon is the Weapon, Sin Is made from the Aeon but it is more Armor, more Defensive than Offensive.

Bree as you said in the PM you sent me, your OP is bit of a jumble can you please tell us what you want to know exactly?

Because we could easily go around in circles:lew:
 
Lol well atleast i know i got my facts straight before i continued posting.

And yeah, Sin is the Armour for Yu Yevon cos it's too pussy to come out like a man and summon!

Don't see any of the summoners with a HUGEASS fish creature protecting them and hell, they have to traverse all of spira to get all their Aeons!

Yu yevon can fly, the summoners cannot.

(Yes, i'm tryin g to create humour :) )
 
Haha wow, I think this thread confused me more... There are a lot of gaps in my knowledge of the plot of FFX in relation to the past. I get everything in the game, but as far as the backstory of Zanarkand and Bevelle and Sin's creation...I get lost.

So. Basically...

Zanarkand and Bevelle are fighting the Machina War (Bevelle using machina weapons, Zanarkand using summoners...sooo...aeons were not created to preserve memories, they were created as weapons, wouldn't that be right?).

Yu Yevon, a summoner of Zanarkand, creates Sin and encases himself inside using an aeon (thus why the Final Summoning 'becomes' Sin). He uses Sin to wipe out machina? But it destroys Zanarkand? So why isn't Bevelle destroyed, too, in that case?

The Fayth, otherwise known as the people who sacrificed themselves to become aeons for summoners to call, trapped within stone, 'dream' a Zanarkand. Why? Did they miss their home? Were they bored, being in stone for eternity?

Yunalesca and Zaon...where do they come in?

Hope the OP doesn't mind me asking a crapload of questions along the same lines...haha. :p
 
Probably nobody cares anymore but I had to do a bit of researching to get my own answers, so I thought I would share. Spoilers obviously.

A thousand years ago, Zanarkand and Bevelle fought in a war and Zanarkand was losing. So the leader of Zanarkand, Yu Yevon sacrificed all of the inhabitants of Zanarkand and turned them into Fayth/Pyreflies. And the Fayth used the pyreflies to dream up Zanarkand and Yu Yevon used the pyreflies to Sin. So basically, both Sin and Dream Zanarkand (DZ) are Aeons. DZ is summoned by the Fayth of the inhabitants of Zanarkand. Sin is essentially the same summon as the one where a Guardian is used as a Fayth to summon the Final Aeon. The Final Aeon is strong enough to kill Sin but once it does, Yu Yevon would attach itself to the Final Aeon and reform it into Sin. This is where Yunalesca and Zaon comes in. I can't remember if it was Yu Yevon who suggested, but I believe so. Yu Yevon told his daughter, Yunalesca, how to defeat Sin and give 'fake hope' to the people of Spira. And that was the Final Aeon. Yunalesca used this technique and turned her husband, Zaon, into the Final Aeon, which became the second Sin.

According to the Ultimania, Dream Zanarkand is located near Baaj. But Dream Zanarkand cannot be accessed by those that are alive. That is why only Sin and Auron is able to reach it. (There's another saying that it's surrounded by a barrier that shields it from the naked eye. But surely a flying ship can access it if it's just a barrier against the naked eye. So I got my doubts on that saying.)

Ultimately, Yu Yevon was not able to control and manage both summoning Dream Zanarkand and Sin. So, he was corrupted and reverted into a 'mindless' state, where he is simply like Sin. Yu Yevon only knows how to do a few things, which are: continue summoning Dream Zanarkand, corrupt whatever defeats Sin, reform the Final Aeon into Sin and repeat. Sin only knows how to do a few things as well, which are: protect Zanarkand (originally but backfired because Yu Yevon lost control, so Sin ended up destroying Zanarkand), and destroy any large cities with Machina. But in the first stages of being reformed as Sin, the previous host seems to have some degree of control (e.g. Jecht). Basically, Sin destroyed Zanarkand because Sin lost control over what it was supposed to do and went on a rampage with little memories of its original objective.

Here's a bunch of theories and things I collected as to why Sin attacked Dream Zanarkand to retrieve Tidus:
- Yu Yevon programed a periodic reset to Dream Zanarkand, so it wouldn't progress too far and DZ would remain at its peak. So Sin is meant to destroy Dream Zanarkand and Yu Yevon would summon a fresh Dream Zanarkand a bit before its peak, without Jecht or Tidus, of course.
- Jecht, as Sin, just simply want to retrieve Tidus and couldn't control the "I must destroy all Machina" part of Sin.
- Jecht, as Sin, wanted to retrieve Tidus but also want to give him a kick in motivation to kill Sin and Yu Yevon off. So he destroys Dream Zanarkand.

My money is on the last one because I believe that Jecht went around Spira to annoy Tidus and motivate him to kill Sin. More on why the first is not plausible later.

As for why Jecht left Dream Zanarkand:
- Jecht went fishing and was too far out and got in contact with Sin. Keyword: Sin because if anyone goes too far out then there should be tons of inhabitants of DZ in Spira.
- The Fayth planned this.

The first seems more legit (but lame) as the second is more speculation. But the second one would explain why Jecht is the first guy in many years to have entered Spira from DZ. Coincidence like that doesn't happen too often. And at the beginning, Bahamut's Fayth stops time and tells Tidus that "It begins. Don't Cry." Like words from Jecht, so the Fayth should have something in this but not proven.

Theories regarding Dream Zanarkand:
- As stated above, it goes in a cycle from creation to peak to destruction and continues on. The Fayth does not dream of the exact copy of the inhabitants though. The cycle is at least 10 years but most likely more. (Relating to FFX-2, Tidus would be like the 100th dream copy version of Shuyin, if it's a 10 year cycle.)
- Dream Zanarkand is always at its peak and continues on like Spira but without much crimes and what not. In this theory, there's also a few theories. 1. Life goes on like how it should be and people's image is not reused. (Relating to FFX-2, Tidus would be a descendent of a dream copy version of Shuyin.) 2. The images (people) of Zanarkand are essentially reused after they die. So even though there's no reset, you'll see another Tidus after X number of years. (Relating to FFX-2, so Tidus is a dream copy version of Shuyin.) 3. Life goes on like how it should be but the creation of the people are 100% on the Fayth. So that means they can create who they want at any time. (Relating to FFX-2, I don't know how many times Tidus has appeared before, but this time is definitely custom made by the Fayth to be a dream copy of Shuyin.)

I don't support the cycle theory as if it's really a cycle, then Sin would've destroyed Dream Zanarkand a lot more than it had in the beginning. And Sin wouldn't have waited for Auron and Tidus. It looked more like Sin was taunting and waiting for them. Then there's also the Fayth part where it seems to know exactly what Sin is going to do, which is suck Tidus up and go to Spira and not destroy DZ to reset a cycle. I'm also leaning towards #3 and that the Fayth had a hand in this and not just hoping something would happen.
 
Okay, I just want to clear a couple of things up.

The Machina War was an event that happened about 1,000 years prior to the main narrative arc of FFX. That is to say, it happened about 1,000 years before Tidus was transported to Spira from Dream Zanarkand. The main belligerents of this war were Zanarkand and Bevelle. Yu Yevon was the leader of Zanarkand, and its most powerful Summoner. All of the citizens of Zanarkand, facing defeat at the hands of Bevelle and their powerful machina, became Fayth and summoned an idealized version of Zanrkand at the peak of its power. Sin was Yu Yevon's creation, made possible by amassing a massive horde of Pyreflies. He gave the creature a simple set of instructions which I will quote directly from the Wiki page: "Destroy any machina or large settlement to stall technological evolution, and retaliate to all hostility with extreme prejudice". Unfortunately this did mean that Sin detroyed Zanarkand, and after fleeing in fear of its awesome power, Bevelle stopped using Machina and survived being entirely wiped out. So they started a religion based around the man himself, probably hoping it would appease him. No doubt Yu Yevon knew that Sin would destroy Zanarkand, but he probably thought it better that Zanarkand was not destroyed by Bevelle if it was going to be destroyed at all.

Dream Zanarkand is a place that actually physically exists within Spira, and is located (according to the developers) "far out" at sea. It is not called Dream Zanarkand because it exists on an ethereal plane or in a metaphysical state, it is called Dream Zanarkand because it is made possible (as mentioned above) by the dreams of the Fayth, the same way Tidus is able to exist physically within Spira despite being of the same ilk. Tidus was a dream of the Fayth living within a dream of the Fayth.

Now. Jecht, in the form of Sin, arrives in Dream Zanarkand at the beginning of the game to get Tidus out and drop him off closer to mainland Spira. He does this for a few reasons. Because he wants to see him again, because he wants Tidus to know, and because he wants Tidus to end it. That is why Auron is there, and asking Sin "Are you sure?" before they are sucked up into it. Auron had been living within Dream Zanarkand as an Unsent because it was Jecht's wish for him to look after Tidus until it was time. He was able to do this because Kimahri was already fulfilling his other promise to Braska concerning Yuna's well-being.


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