SPOILERS Spiran timey wimey stuff

Dionysos

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Prince Oberyn Martel mentioned this in Discord the other day, got me thinking, and he gave me his endorsement to go and make a thread about it.

The Yevon temples are often decorated with cult statues of the High Summoners who have defeated Sin in the past. This allows Yevon-worshipping Spirans a place to pray to particular High Summoners, to pay their respects and say thanks for the Calms they had provided in previous generations, and also to draw strength from these heroes for contemporary or personal problems (or incessant problems where Sin is concerned). It’s the equivalent of saints in Christianity (particularly Catholicism and Orthodoxy with how far they take it).




Yet these statues appear not to exist within the same timestream as everything else in Spira... In fact some statues might have time-travelled!

Remiem Temple in the Calm Lands (where the player messes about with a chocobo and can obtain the Magus Sisters) had been left in ruins since Lord Gandof’s battle with Sin approximately 400 years ago. This is the climactic battle which tore the earth asunder and created the Calm Lands in the first place.

But there are statues within this temple depicting High Summoners of later generations. We have Lord Ohalland and Lady Yocun and, most perplexing, Lord Braska (Yuna’s father). So in a temple which had been left derelict for 400 years we have a statue of a High Summoner who finished his pilgrimage and brought forth another Calm only a decade or so ago.

Lord Braska is here on the right at Remiem:
Braska at Remiem.png



When the player is in Braska’s hometown of Besaid, despite local enthusiasm for idolising him, the statue of him there has not long been completed. His journey is still relatively fresh.

FFX_HD_Braska_Statue.png



So are these statues here in abandoned temples because Yevon had prophesied the exact summoners who would be successful? Or was this just a mistake by developers which they didn’t expect anybody could pick up on?

If this was foresight, this would mean Yevon would know already who would eventually defeat Sin each time, therefore the death of thousands of summoners needlessly attempting doomed pilgrimages would be that much more wasteful and tragic. That said, these unfortunate summoners would be able to see the statues of all of the past and future successful summoners in the temples which they visit on their pilgrimages and so would surely notice that they themselves are not depicted and should surely be inclined to give up.

Alternatively, is somebody else installing statues in ruined temples? Do Yevon authorities secretly maintain the abandoned temples and insert the statues of Braska and co within them despite them falling out of use?

What do people think?
 

DaggerTribal

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I'm not super well informed with deep details of this game, however:

Alternatively, is somebody else installing statues in ruined temples? Do Yevon authorities secretly maintain the abandoned temples and insert the statues of Braska and co within them despite them falling out of use?
This is my bet. My guess is that whoever is making the statues is the ones dutifully bringing them to each known temple; probably an art that is kept in the family and is handed down. Whether it's Yevon authorities or a devout worshiper I'm not sure. But considering the emphasis on how dedicated the people of Spira are, and with what they consider holy, It isn't really hard to believe that someone would still make time to place a statue there. It's abandoned, but still a holy place. I mean, a high summoner bringing the calm was a big, huge deal. If your one skill is stone masonry, and you're a devout Yevon worshiper, then it's probably a privilege to adorn all the temples just like your forefathers before you (and would also explain why they would know the location of the lost temple.) Though I'm not sure why they would place a statue there before the one in Besaid, but I guess we don't know for a fact that they did.

As far as it being a prophesy, I think there's more holes in that theory than the above. I can also just see it being a mistake on the developer's part. It could be that maybe they had other plans for this temple, but it got cut short for other reasons. It really is an amazing place and is very well detailed for just a side quest, in my opinion..


😑 I was looking something up before posting this and now I've got the dumb temple hymn in my head. :hmph:
 

Dionysos

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This is my bet. My guess is that whoever is making the statues is the ones dutifully bringing them to each known temple; probably an art that is kept in the family and is handed down. Whether it's Yevon authorities or a devout worshiper I'm not sure. But considering the emphasis on how dedicated the people of Spira are, and with what they consider holy, It isn't really hard to believe that someone would still make time to place a statue there. It's abandoned, but still a holy place. I mean, a high summoner bringing the calm was a big, huge deal. If your one skill is stone masonry, and you're a devout Yevon worshiper, then it's probably a privilege to adorn all the temples just like your forefathers before you (and would also explain why they would know the location of the lost temple.) Though I'm not sure why they would place a statue there before the one in Besaid, but I guess we don't know for a fact that they did.
Quite possible. There are thousands of devout Yevon worshipers on Spira, so plenty would likely have an interest in a temple. The fact that some summoners even continued to visit the stolen Fayth (Yojimbo) suggests that even abandoned temples or Fayths no longer in their temples still held significance to the people of Spira.
Maybe there were people going around and updating these places.

I wonder if the same goes for Baaj. I can't remember if there are statues of Braska there... It would be quite a feat to get to Baaj to update it. That said, in recent history Seymour's mother became the Fayth there so somebody has been about at least.

I also wonder whether the chocobo races through the ruins of Remiem are doing the temple any favours... So if there are people looking after the temple or updating it in some way, I wonder if they'd encourage or put an end to that nonsense.

As far as it being a prophesy, I think there's more holes in that theory than the above. I can also just see it being a mistake on the developer's part. It could be that maybe they had other plans for this temple, but it got cut short for other reasons. It really is an amazing place and is very well detailed for just a side quest, in my opinion..
I think this is probable. While it wouldn't be uncharacteristic of Yevon if they secretly happened to know exactly who will be capable of defeating Sin, it is far more likely that if they possessed this knowledge they would keep it hidden entirely. Placing statues of the future saviours of Spira in public temples is hardly keeping people in the dark.
That would also mean that Braska would have encountered a statue of himself and would then know that his pilgrimage was going to be a successful one.
It wouldn't work.


😑 I was looking something up before posting this and now I've got the dumb temple hymn in my head. :hmph:

And now it is in mine... :hmph:
 
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