Spin-offs?

Morrigan

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Would it have been better if the game was left as it was?Sure the spin-offs offer more story and insight to certain characters but didn't it kinda had some kind of impact on how the fans now view the original game?
If you could would you erase any game of the spin-offs?If yes,which one?
Where do you think those games went wrong,except if you think otherwise.
Did they inluence the image you had created about FFVII at first,or are you still holding strong on to it?


I might post my answer on this later.
 

Rydia

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Yes I think the game would have been left as it was. I think the compliation really takes away from the original story. There are stupid retcons that contradict the original story.

Last Order: Sephiroth jumping into the life stream instead of Cloud throwing him off. It ruins Cloud's first victory against Sephiroth and the idea that Cloud was always stronger than him.

Last Order: Tifa recognizing Cloud. Ruins the moment in the lifestream in FFVII because she was not supposed to know Cloud was there.

Advent Children: Rufus is alive! He had a cool death in FFVII, why bring him back? For what purpose? He was NOT a good guy.

Advent Children: Sephiroth and Jenova coming back. Wasn't holy supposed to have destroyed Jenova?

Advent Children: People being conscious in the life stream. Didn't they get absorbed into it when they die? Why was Zack still around?

Advent Children: Why is Cloud still depressed? He was over it by the end of FFVII.

Oh and making random characters very important. Giving the Turks bigger roles kind of ruins them. And they were not good guys. It was funny to see Reno and Rude save some random kids when Reno had no problem droping a huge plate on one section of the slums probably killing several children.

We didn't need Zack to be elaborated on because he had a minor role in VII and was an after thought. And if they really wantd to make a story about him, make his unique and not exactly like Cloud's.

Also, to get parts of the story I have to order some books. <.<

So yeah, I feel that they should have kept VII as it is. The game was so much better for me. I'm afraid of a remake that adds in all the retcons :(
 

Morrigan

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Why do I see mysel totally agreeing with you?XD

I'm glad someone states that Zack was Cloud's copy.Let's not forget Genesis completely unecessary and mind you annoying.

Not to bash characters but the spin-offs loom like they were made to put other characters into the spot-light,or just make money.

Did you also feel that Aerith's personality was different in Crisis Core,or is it just me?I found her more enjoyable in the original.
 

Toshiya

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Hmm... I did like some of the spinoffs (Crisis Core especially, it just helped people to understand who Zack was)
Dirge of Cerberus as well, it was interesting without detracting from the original storyline, and I enjoyed playing that since it gave Vincent, one of my favourite characters, a more important role than in the original game.
AC and Last Order... well... I enjoyed them but maybe the original story would have been better without them (especially the plot contradictions in LO)
And Before Crisis... was pointless. Really, really pointless.
 

FF7Destiny

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I agree with you, Rydia. I have loved Final Fantasy VII since I was a child, it was the first RPG I played, and the first Final Fantasy. When I heard Advent Children was coming out, I was really excited, I had to wait a couple of years as when I heard about it, the website was only 20% completed and the film didn't arrived until 2 years later. When it finally did arrive I was happy, I watched it and I thought it was good but over the years, after the complication games had come out I think in the end it was a bad move. They've made the plot line confusing by the points that Rydia has made, the important actions a character makes in the game is dramatically changed in a complication, so it makes me think "What ACTUALLY happened then?"

They made a RPG shooter which was okay, I guess from a sub character but it was quite unneccessary. After thinking you've defeated Sephiroth, Jenova is not around anymore, the lifestream saved the planet, Kadaj and co come along shouting for mother. Crisis Core I feel is unneccessary too, it is just like a second story of Cloud, I liked how Zack was quite mysterious, he was a past love from Aeris's past, and that was it, and how you encountered his parents who had no idea what happened to him. I think it would of been better just keeping it like that.

People say Final Fantasy VII is over-rated, but in it's right, I think that Square Enix in a way has made it over-rated because they have made a movie, they have more games for people to go crazy over, talk about, discuss and beg for more, I.e A remake. A remake would be too far. I think the game should be left as it is.
 

Alak

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Yes I think the game would have been left as it was. I think the compliation really takes away from the original story. There are stupid retcons that contradict the original story.

.........


So yeah, I feel that they should have kept VII as it is. The game was so much better for me. I'm afraid of a remake that adds in all the retcons :(

Agreed 100%. I'm not gonna lie, I will try out something related to VII and I own Advent Children Complete. I still agree that all this extra stuff sort of brings down the universe of VII overall.
 

Morrigan

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Something I'd like to add is that like it's not enough the storyline gets twisted and changed throughout those spin-offs,but also the character's portrayal goes also wrong.
For example,at first I watched the movie,so I had no idea what the game was like,but because I loved and it had quite a few holes in the plot I decided to play the game,which far surpassed the move and then did I realize that the FFVII characters had little to do with the characters in AC in terms of personality,not to mention the whole depression Cloud goes through in the movie he was supposed to have gotten over it in the game already.
Or in CC,why was it made for?To show that Cloud's life is a copy of Zack's?When actually it's the other way around.It really can be confusing to someone who first played CC and then FFVII,it is just unnecessary and adds characters that had nothing to do with the story.Let alone that Aeris' personality is kinda altered in this game,she's way too common,in FFVII she was more fun with nice lines.
 

Rydia

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You know, there is also something else that is annoying about the spin offs. It's the fans that have only played or watched the spin offs (namely Advent Children or Crisis Core) and they will still claim that FF7 is the best video game or FF game ever. They may have tried to play FF7, but quit because they could not get past the graphics.

Now, I don't care if someone has only seen AC and/or played CC and enjoyed them. But seriously, it's annoying when they claim that FF7 is the best game ever when they never even played it. And even more annoying when you talk about how the characters were in the actual game and get very upset and tell you that you are wrong. (Most of this happends with the Turks, Rufus, Cloud, and Sephiroth) And then they dismiss the actual members of the party with the exception of Tifa, Vincent, Aeris, and sometimes Yuffie because they were "boring". <.<

I've seen a lot of these fans at anime cons. I showed one a picture of Tifa from the game without telling her who it was and this girl didn't even recognize her. <.< Another person wouldnt' believe me when I mentioned that Rufus tried to have certain members of the party executed.
 

Morrigan

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Haha,isn't that ridiculous.Although I played the game quite late(around 2006) I could get past the graphics and to think that at that time I had an "obsession" with graphics.After that I learnt not to care anymore for graphics since most of the good games are old,the new ones are kinda meh.
I feel sorry for those so called fans cause they're actually missing the real story with a new alterned one and it's just sad.Yeah,Rufus is bad and I don't get it why they made them look good in AC.I hope then don't make Sephiroth good as well if they make any more spinoffs.
 

cloud077

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.I hope then don't make Sephiroth good as well if they make any more spinoffs.


The kind of already did. I thought he was way too soft in Crisis core. I understand he hadn't gone insane yet, but I still imagined his character as bitter and cruel.
 

Robbiedbee

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I guess I am lucky, because I haven't let any of the additional FFVII Universe material affect my impression and ideas about the game. I have always taken anything in them with a pinch of salt, and have never enjoyed any of it even a fraction as much as I enjoyed the original FFVII game. I think FFVII is so wonderfully stylistically unique that it stands on its own as an untouchable piece of work, and such is why the remakes don't bother me.

As I say, I am lucky that I see it that way, and those who don't see it that way have my utmost sympathy. It's a shame that developers/writers can have that effect; Quentin Tarantino once said that the two Matrix sequels ruined the impact and the mythology behind the original Matrix movie.
 

The Witch

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Everything After the original Game...

SUCKS!

Yea, that's right. Everything after VII is just stupid and screws up the original storyline. Okay, maybe Advent Children and the cool side-story games like Dissidia are okay. But everything else just bothers me and ruins the original game for myself.

I'm not trying to blatantly insult, BC, CC, DoC, ACC, etc, but I just feel like they ruin the original game.

It sucks hearing people actually talk about Genesis like he's an original character...when, he isn't.

Please, please tell me I'm not the only one that just likes VII(possibly AC)?

Compilation after VII = crap amiright?
 

Exoskeleton

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I so agree! All of the spinoffs and things that read deeper into the story just weakens the whole franchise for me. I think the story is alot stronger after the finished game. I thought the movie was great but it still would have been a very great game without it. The game is usually big because of the impression you have after playing it. Alot of fans really wanted sequels and prequels and such but for me when you play them, it becomes kidof a let down. The origional game kicks ass and the movie rocks.....but other games are just not worth it.
 

The Witch

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I so agree! All of the spinoffs and things that read deeper into the story just weakens the whole franchise for me. I think the story is alot stronger after the finished game. I thought the movie was great but it still would have been a very great game without it. The game is usually big because of the impression you have after playing it. Alot of fans really wanted sequels and prequels and such but for me when you play them, it becomes kidof a let down. The origional game kicks ass and the movie rocks.....but other games are just not worth it.
Yea, man! Exactly!

It's like, the game was so bloody brilliant-that's why it's the highest selling FF game-so it's obviously a great game.

But with all the crappy spin-off games like CC, BC, DoC--they really just weaken everything great about VII.

We don't need more info on unoriginal characters(Genesis, Angeal I'm talking about you)and we definitely do not need the brilliant storyline retconed.
 

Rydia

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For me, I don't really care much about anything released after the original game. Most of it is half hearted and created for only money reasons. (Yes they are a business and they are supposed to make money, but please, but effort into the stuff you sell! I mean, seriously, does Vincent really need his own game?) Sometimes, some of the installments are fun to watch but I just take it as eye candy. I actually get bored during Advent Children except for the part where the entire party fights Bahamut. And I was very disappointed that Barret had such a minimal role in that movie.

The only thing that I find annoying about the spin offs and sequels is that I can't discuss only FF7 with people without AC or CC or DOC being brought up. And they did get rid of the old theories :/ For me, the original game is cannon and any inconsistances in the sequels or spin offs are mistakes.
 

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This annoys me. You have the original game to fall back on - if you don't like the spin-offs, don't replay or rewatch them and don't participate in their discussions. You'll effectively erase it from your life and your original VII game is left untouched. Play through it again and remind yourself of its greatness. I always hate players who condemn the rest of the series - just forget about them.

Incidentally I'm loving the spin-offs at the moment. The only storyline that was screwed with was Genesis's appearance at the Mako Reactor in Nibelheim. I didn't like that either, but Cloud was never inside the reactor at the time and so technically anything could've happened. Everything else in CC, while "pointless" and "unnecessary" still closed the rest of the story up pretty well and paved the way for Dirge of Cerberus, too, which incidentally also works from a lore point of view.

Never played BC, couldn't comment.

AC, while absolutely dire and an abomination, didn't ruin story, either (other than, perhaps, Tseng's survival?).

So, while we might not appreciate the efforts made in these spin-offs, and wish for them to disappear, it's not like they're actually changing the plot outright with them, they're adding to it. Too much of a good thing and all that but, to summarise my opening: just don't play them.
 

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This annoys me. You have the original game to fall back on - if you don't like the spin-offs, don't replay or rewatch them and don't participate in their discussions. You'll effectively erase it from your life and your original VII game is left untouched. Play through it again and remind yourself of its greatness. I always hate players who condemn the rest of the series - just forget about them.

Well-spoken, sir. :monocle:

I enjoyed FFVII. It's not my favorite in the series but it was a decent game, imo. I watched Advent Children once; I didn't care for it. I never watched it again. :dave:

I can't speak for any of the other games or items in the compilation since I haven't played them and probably won't. But I agree with the above poster. If you don't like them or feel that they will ruin the game for you, don't play them.
 

Akamaru

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This annoys me. You have the original game to fall back on - if you don't like the spin-offs, don't replay or rewatch them and don't participate in their discussions. You'll effectively erase it from your life and your original VII game is left untouched. Play through it again and remind yourself of its greatness. I always hate players who condemn the rest of the series - just forget about them.

Incidentally I'm loving the spin-offs at the moment. The only storyline that was screwed with was Genesis's appearance at the Mako Reactor in Nibelheim. I didn't like that either, but Cloud was never inside the reactor at the time and so technically anything could've happened. Everything else in CC, while "pointless" and "unnecessary" still closed the rest of the story up pretty well and paved the way for Dirge of Cerberus, too, which incidentally also works from a lore point of view.

Never played BC, couldn't comment.

AC, while absolutely dire and an abomination, didn't ruin story, either (other than, perhaps, Tseng's survival?).

So, while we might not appreciate the efforts made in these spin-offs, and wish for them to disappear, it's not like they're actually changing the plot outright with them, they're adding to it. Too much of a good thing and all that but, to summarise my opening: just don't play them.

The only reason people still refer how much they disliked the spin-offs is just as the same as you saying you hate players who, I quote, "condemn the rest of the series". You hate those players don't you. So why mention it, sir?

The fact of the matter is, if you hate something, you're gonna hate it. Not ignore it. There's actually a difference, believe it or not.

And for what is worth, read on. I will prove to you just how exactly they DID change the facts of the storyline to the point where it all stops making sense. If you don't believe some fact here or there, hey! It's the intarwebz! You can always look it up =D.

Now, more on-topic... oooooh boy. Before that, there might be spoilers so if anyone here hasn't played all of the spin-offs or so, you might not wanna read it XD.

Let's do this chronologically.

Before Crisis was the most unnecessary piece of marketing fan-service'd junk they could've came up with. Of course there's always going to be people like the good sir Riku, so, they'll just keep ripping us off. It's a business, it involves money, and it's genuinely a cutthroat business. Hats off to them, but as far as I'm concerned, I don't think loyal fans deserve that bullshit.

Crisis Core... Well, for as incoherent and very likely squeezed out of someone in that office's ass, it still freaking rocks! ...As its' individual game, yes! I loved the gameplay style, and whereas the leveling up system is, by all means, creative, it's, by all means, unwelcome. Why change what's been implanted into our minds ever since we played Final Fantasy when we were like... 7? Winning gets you Experience. Experience gets you Levels. Levels get you power. Simple as an apple.
And, to be perfectly fair, there HAS been guides and explanations as to how the game DOES involve a point-based Level-Up system, and how it is NOT entirely random, but alas it is completely out of our control.
Genesis is just yet another marketing stunt. Everyone knows he was inspired right out of Gackt, even being voiced by him in the Japanese version, which is an obvious try to reel in other kinds of audience, mainly those ignorant fools who keep running around like idiots saying they love the "Japanese Culture" and scream out random Japanese words like "Sugoi" and "Kawaii", not knowing that in Japan, nobody will ever give a shit about their culture at all. In other words, Weebos.
He looks, and sounds cool. Not a lot of unbiased people can argue with that, but fact still remains that his introduction into the series makes no sense, and that if it was to make sense, he should have died in Crisis Core. Him being alive makes no sense throughout the entire original storyline. I mean, he apears at the end of Dirge of Cerberus to say "We still have much to do", but he didn't give a shit that the World was ending when Sephiroth summoned Meteor?

Final Fantasy VII - Advent Children
Rufus? Alive? What the fuck for? No, seriously. What for? I can understand bringing back Reno if he died with all the fanchicks squeeing for him. But... Rufus? He never even was that cool to begin with. And he was supposed to freakin' DIE. Why change that? Where, in the holy mother of bad ideas, did someone find this a great chance to bring Rufus back? Seriously, with so many characters that died, I would've rather seen revived Jessie, Biggs and Wedge. I seriously would.

Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children Complete
What can I say. Advent Children just didn't make enough money for ya, did it?

Final Fantasy VII: Dirge of Cerberus
Vincent. I understand they were trying to cater, yet again, to the squeeing fangirls, but again I have to say the last thing I want to do is play a fusion between Resident Evil 4 and Final Fantasy VII, if I'm playing an RPG. The game in and of itself is great and I loved playing it. A little too short for my liking, but it was alright. Again, as an independent game.
Of course there are people who are going to say: "Well, dur, Vincent uses guns, what would you ever imagine him in beside a shooter?"
Well, Dante from Devil May Cry isn't in a shooter game, is he? Sure, he uses a Sword, but Bayonetta doesn't wield a sword naturally and she still isn't in a shooter. There are countless way to make that work, especially considering he can also use his claw to attack.
And, oh God. The Tsviets. Now, we all know they were already there in Crisis Core. So what in the holy mother of Ass were they doing during the ACTUAL STORYLINE.
Again, incoherent and unnecessary unless they would've stated quite clearly that the game's action passes in a separate universe much like the Legend of Zelda series. The existence of Deepground defies a lot of reasoning made in the original storyline, not to mention that the genetic experiments made to Genesis were funded and supervised by ShinRa, so unless Deepground was formed before, and SOMEHOW made it through the destruction of ShinRa as a company with no funding whatsoever through about 7 years, or that it was formed afterward by the remaining members of ShinRa who all curiously were involved with the genetic experiments regarding Genesis Rhapsodos, it still makes no sense.
What is known is that Deepground is, in fact, a special branch of SOLDIER, that is obviously connected to Genesis, who obviously didn't want to be found during the entire time. What he was doing, what the Tsviets were doing, and what the hell kept them so busy as to not appear while the World was being attacked by gigantic Meteors, threatened by Sephiroth, defended by huge tentacles of Lifestream, rendered asunder in gaping maws that destroyed towns, attacked and overtaken by biological weapons created by the planet itself... and ultimately saved, I have no idea.
All in all, this can only be explained by the fact that sequels and prequels were made after the original story, and most of it was disregarded by Square Enix for sale purposes and fan-service, but whereas it all can be quite rewarding and fun to play as individual RPGs, it still does very little toward the overall feeling you'll have by looking at the story as a whole. And Hironobu Sakaguchi said it best. He didn't have what it took to make action games, he rather tell stories. And stories he told, good stories that were dear to us, until he left, and Enix made it their personal business to make it incoherent, incompetent and disrespectful.

Psh, no wonder Sakaguchi is starting to develop what may someday be the parallel series to be pitted against Final Fantasy, The Last Story.
He's probably thinkin', "Dude... I can beat that... I seriously can beat that."

Either way, these are personal opinions and shouldn't be taken extremely serious. If I offended anyone's belief or opinion, then be sure that I didn't mean to offend anyone at all 8D.
 

Neo Bahamut

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That shit was way too long for me to read, but neither Tseng nor Rufus died. Tseng was only injured in the original translation. Rufus was "missing."

As for Genesis, so far, I'm not seeing anything that's contradictory. Perhaps the contradictions only exist because you don't like the stories enough to explore them?

In any case, "original" is a tricky label. How do you judge that?
 
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