I've just replayed the game for the 3rd time and...

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#1
So up until now I've played FFVIII for a total 3 times. The 1st time when I was in junior high, I went over the game all by myself without any help and I didn't pay much attention to the texts. The 2nd time I used a walkthrough guide in order to discover all the secrets of the game. Thus, I got caught up with the training and side quests that I couldn't even be bothered with the storyline... And I just simply loved every aspect of the game by then.
Recently, I just replayed it for the 3rd time out of boredom... this time I read every text box, tried to follow the story closely and I've come to a realization of how inconsistent and odd the story is at times !

Firstly, I have to mention the Squall x Rinoa relationship development. Close to the end of disc 1 Rinoa was like "I think I was in love with Seifer" and then in the beginning of disc 2 she was all over Squall " I really missed ya..." and such. Ok so it's just her flirty nature... But Squall on the contrary was a very ignorant and anti-social guy. From the beginning till the end of disc 2 he always found her somewhat annoying and troublesome. And then boom!!! disc 3 starts and I wondered did he get his head hit somewhere with stuffs like " I want to hear Rinoa voice... Pls call my name... Give me another chance..." From then he went nuts over saving her all the time... And I wish they could just stop forcing the agenda and give the guy some damn options to do or not fall for her that abruptly, like they did with choosing the party members or some dialogues. Should it be another comrade who got in a coma and drifting outer space, he probably would just " Well, it's none of my business... " The only explanation I can think of is that he has some kind of bipolar disorder symptom ^^!

Secondly, It's the plot twist when everyone in the story has to be connected to others somehow... like they all grew up in Edea's orphanage, Edea is married to Cid, Squall is Laguna's child and Rinoa is Julia's (some ppl even come up with the theories of Seifer being Cid's son and Rinoa is Ultimecia, ect...) That world FFVIII characters live in must be sure small just as it shows...
And don't even get me started on how they are all so eager to choose Squall to be the leader of the garden all of a sudden. He was merely a 17 years old fresh graduate SeeD with no experience nor merit quality who failed on his 1st mission ( assassinating Edea ) and it was his group that got the garden targeted in the 1st place... His only accomplishment was mobilizing the garden which pretty much many ppl could pull off and defeating NORG and yeah nobody could care less to even mention that... They all act like he is the chosen one, the born hero leader which make completely no sense to me. Even Squall himself couldn't understand that. The story is really rushed I must say...

Also I kinda get how Squall always lives the way he is, he doesn't want to get close or open up to people because he's afraid of losing them someday like with Ellone. But choosing Rinoa sure is a great risk since she would jump on another guy the second she thinks he's dead or having a hard time figuring out his objects due to her nature (see Seifer as a reference). I mean he's a SeeD right, so he must be somehow aware of living his life in insecure state. Say someday he went on a mission and didn't make it back on time, the others would throw in some comments like he's probably dead... I wonder how many seconds Rinoa would spend on grieving before she picks another best looking guy to cast her spell " you are going to like me... you are going to like me... " on like she did with Squall in the ballroom... Let's just hope he wouldn't end up hurting again...

Well, that's it. I just finished disc 2 and couldn't proceed. Just I couldn't bring myself to stand anymore Rinoa X Squall unconvincing moment even though I do like the gameplay a lot that I had to go to this forum to find out what other ppl think since I'm pretty confused. Just so you know I have absolutely no problem with any other FF couples so far... Now I finally think I can sympathize a bit with the haters... And no disrespect to all FFVIII and Squall x Rinoa fans. This is just my personal perspective and my 1st post as well so if you guys don't share the same POV, I also don't wanna get the the axe ^^!

( PS : I still love the game all the way till the end of disc 2 when Squall was still sane and cool =] )
 
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iSmiff

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#2
Firstly, I have to mention the Squall x Rinoa relationship development. Close to the end of disc 1 Rinoa was like "I think I was in love with Seifer" and then in the beginning of disc 2 she was all over Squall " I really missed ya..." and such.

Secondly, It's the plot twist when everyone in the story has to be connected to others somehow... like they all grew up in Edea's orphanage, Edea is married to Cid, Squall is Laguna's child and Rinoa is Julia's..

And don't even get me started on how they are all so eager to choose Squall to be the leader of the garden all of a sudden. He was merely a 17 years old fresh graduate SeeD with no experience nor merit quality who failed on his 1st mission ( assassinating Edea ) and it was his group that got the garden targeted in the 1st place... His only accomplishment was mobilizing the garden which pretty much many ppl could pull off and defeating NORG and yeah nobody could care less to even mention that... They all act like he is the chosen one, the born hero leader which make completely no sense to me. Even Squall himself couldn't understand that. The story is really rush I must say...
Yeah, but there's clearly an attraction. Squall wouldn't have danced with her if he didn't like the look of her. And a near death experience changes alot of things. Aside from whether you chose to believe the 'THEORY' (I wont ruin for anyone who hasn't heard of it..) that explained to me why the change in their relationship was so quick. You always hear about how people on bad terms regret not being able to sort out relationships when someone died so the fact Squall lives gives them a second chance.

I don't like the orphanage angle either. It feels really forced. Squall/Laguna Julia/Rinoa is a good angle though I think. If Laguna and Rinoa had gotten together, Squall and Rinoa wouldn't have been born the way they were/at all.

I agree with you that Squall certainly hadn't really proved himself in terms of leading garden; HOWEVER I think it's the only way to explain why the player would be able to gain control of the garden. Why the fuck would anyone listen to you if you weren't in direct control. He's showed his quality in other ways. He may have failed in the assassination and failed to stop the missiles launching but he did mobilise garden and he does know more than anyone else at the garden except Cid, who i'm sure you'll agree, is rather a tad frail to be leading an assault. Alexander the Great took the throne at 20 and went on to create one of the most powerful empires ever. Stranger things have happened than the potential of a 17 year old being recognised.
 

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#3
I agree with everything that you said. It's because of those things, and more, that I consider FF8 to be a "lackluster" game. It had/has a lot of potential to be great, but didn't use it fully in the completed product. The game is very kiddish; the only things I liked about it were the atmosphere, music, real settings, and Squall's amazing quotes (particularly the one at Fisherman's Horizon when he tells the mayor(?) of the town why fighting is the only way to bring peace sometimes, a quote in which I am still trying to find -_-).

I kinda agree with iSmiff about the attrction to Rinoa, though. If you watch the ballroom scene, it does seem like Squall has a hint of attraction toward her. And I always wondered about that little nod to the right that he seems to do when she spots him and goes over to ask him to dance with her... other than that, though, it is very conflicting about how he just, like you said, "BOOM!" ...falls in love with her. iSmiff: I'd like to read that theory!!!!! I bet it's interesting. Link please (or something)!
 

daredevil

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#5
I always thought Squall x Rinoa was one of Square's best love stories. In fact, TidusxYuna and CloudxAerith are the only other couples that really had any impact on me. :hmmm:

Squall was just one of those guys that didn't know what he was feeling until it was too late. Yeah, he might have acted harsh towards the others and a little distant to Rinoa but that was just him with his "guard" up. Remember, Squall kept himself closed off from the others because he didn't want to be "left". It makes sense Squall acted that way. It was only when push came to shove that he realized he didn't want to lose her. It took some time for him to realize that because he just honestly wasn't used to those feelings, they were alien to him.

But choosing Rinoa sure is a great risk since she would jump on another guy the second she thinks he's dead or having a hard time figuring out his objects due to her nature (see Seifer as a reference).
Lemme stop you there bro.

How the hell did you come to that idea? Rinoa's never "jumped" to another guy before. She said herself that she THOUGHT she liked Seifer, there's no crime against a person that realizes they don't love someone, especially when they're a teenager. ffs, she was 16 8( was she supposed to stay with him forever? 8(

I wonder how many seconds Rinoa would spend on grieving before she picks another best looking guy to cast her spell " you are going to like me... you are going to like me... " on like she did with Squall in the ballroom... Let's just hope he wouldn't end up hurting again...
Are you for real, right now? 8(

Rinoa's never been shown "moving from one guy to the next" before, like, ever but you're saying it as if it's a fact. What we DO know is that she THOUGHT she liked Seifer for awhile, broke up with him (probably; not sure if there's any REAL facts saying they were "together"), and she fell in love with Squall. This is a baseless accusation on her character that you're making.

Question, did you want Quistis and Squall together?

Ugh, and no more with that squall is dead theory. it just doesn't add up. :mokken:
 

Dark Lumina

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#6
I agree. I've played the game around 6+ times (I can't remember how many times, I lost count at 6 XD) and I interpret the story in a more weirder way every time I play it. BUT! I love everything else about the game :D I love abusing the junction system and I was actually able to get the Lionheart for Squall in the first disc during my latest playthrough.
 

daredevil

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#7
I seriously just had to watch both of my sister's replay the game in the span of a few weeks from each other, I don't get what's weird about the romance or the plot. :hmmm: I don't even like the game that much. I detest 80% of the music, I hate the graphics, the storyline is generic, and the character's are your usual--but I thought the development for squall's character and especially his relationship with Rinoa was the best aspect. :hmmm:
 

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#9
Firstly, I have to mention the Squall x Rinoa relationship development. Close to the end of disc 1 Rinoa was like "I think I was in love with Seifer" and then in the beginning of disc 2 she was all over Squall " I really missed ya..." and such.
Rinoa was all over Squall since the beginning of Disc 1, in the ballroom scene. She said she thought she was in love with Seifer. Even adults aren't sure what they feel sometimes, why would you expect a 16 years old teenager to know?

But Squall on the contrary was a very ignorant and anti-social guy. From the beginning till the end of disc 2 he always found her somewhat annoying and troublesome. And then boom!!! disc 3 starts and I wondered did he get his head hit somewhere with stuffs like " I want to hear Rinoa voice... Pls call my name... Give me another chance..."
Annoying, troublesome and interesting. He's more coping with his new found feelings than getting bothered by her.

A person can become anti-social because of so many reasons... But deep inside, though, they're just waiting an opportunity, be it a situation or a person, to help them overcome their fears. They're always hoping for that, and Rinoa was an angel that sent him a light...


From then he went nuts over saving her all the time...
Well, he could just let her fall from Garden, suffocate in space and let Adel absord her vital force until she crumbles. She's just another human being, right?

And I wish they could just stop forcing the agenda and give the guy some damn options to do or not fall for her that abruptly, like they did with choosing the party members or some dialogues.
To fall in love abruptly has a name: passion. It's more common than you would think.

Should it be another comrade who got in a coma and drifting outer space, he probably would just " Well, it's none of my business... " The only explanation I can think of is that he has some kind of bipolar disorder symptom ^^!
Of course he would let another comrade die in space! He's anti-social!:monster:

Secondly, It's the plot twist when everyone in the story has to be connected to others somehow... like they all grew up in Edea's orphanage, Edea is married to Cid, Squall is Laguna's child and Rinoa is Julia's (some ppl even come up with the theories of Seifer being Cid's son and Rinoa is Ultimecia, ect...) That world FFVIII characters live in must be sure small just as it shows...
Many people point this as a stupid plot element, but I think it would be stupid if they didn't knew each other.

Think about it for a moment: how would you not know the people from the orphanage you live in, if you all live in the same damn place since your childhood? They're still living there! How they wouldn't find each other? They must even know more people from those childhood days than they show in the game, such as Nida and Xu. It's not like the world is small. Balamb Garden is.


And don't even get me started on how they are all so eager to choose Squall to be the leader of the garden all of a sudden. He was merely a 17 years old fresh graduate SeeD with no experience nor merit quality who failed on his 1st mission ( assassinating Edea ) and it was his group that got the garden targeted in the 1st place... His only accomplishment was mobilizing the garden which pretty much many ppl could pull off and defeating NORG and yeah nobody could care less to even mention that... They all act like he is the chosen one, the born hero leader which make completely no sense to me. Even Squall himself couldn't understand that. The story is really rush I must say...
It was a decision that involved one man only, Headmaster Cid Kramer. He alone choose Squall. He saw potential in him and believed in it, and you can only see a potential becoming useful if you give the chance. You may have the potential to play the guitar, but without a guitar your potential makes no difference. Cid had faith that his talented student could give positive results.

Also I kinda get how Squall always lives the way he is, he doesn't want to get close or open up to people because he's afraid of losing them someday like with Ellone. But choosing Rinoa sure is a great risk since she would jump on another guy the second she thinks he's dead or having a hard time figuring out his objects due to her nature (see Seifer as a reference).
I mean he's a SeeD right, so he must be somehow aware of living his life in insecure state. Say someday he went on a mission and didn't make it back on time, the others would throw in some comments like he's probably dead... I wonder how many seconds Rinoa would spend on grieving before she picks another best looking guy to cast her spell " you are going to like me... you are going to like me... " on like she did with Squall in the ballroom... Let's just hope he wouldn't end up hurting again...
You say that because you think Rinoa is a detached person who doesn't take her relationships seriously, when in truth she's portrayed as a kind, caring girl to everyone of her friends.

Well, that's it. I just finished disc 2 and couldn't proceed. Just I couldn't bring myself to stand anymore Rinoa X Squall unconvincing moment even though I do like the gameplay a lot that I had to go to this forum to find out what other ppl think since I'm pretty confused. Just so you know I have absolutely no problem with any other FF couples so far... Now I finally think I can sympathize a bit with the haters... And no disrespect to all FFVIII and Squall x Rinoa fans. This is just my personal perspective and my 1st post as well so if you guys don't share the same POV, I also don't wanna get the the axe ^^!
My personal perspective is that you didn't read the dialogues as you say, and if you did, got it totally different from me.

Thou shall get an axe:
 

daredevil

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#10
I agree with Vivie, though. Squall found Rinoa very annoying then BAM!

"I've....I've fallen for you."
"Rinoa....I want to hear your voice."
It would seem like that with anyone for Squall, though. That was the point. This guy that ignored his feelings and kept everyone at a distance wouldn't recognize love even if it punched him in the face, let alone know how to interact or know what to do with said feelings. His feelings for her grew gradually, but he didn't vocalize them or even recognize them because he just didn't know what they were or what to do with them. That's why Rinoa being in a coma is so significant for him--it was that life and death situation that made him realize that he wasn't going to hide his feelings anymore. And if you pay attention to the game, you see a lot of moments where Squall is softer with Rinoa and more lenient with her then he ever was with anyone else.

For example, he might have acted "tough" during the SeeD festival but he still went with her and spoke about things (if you remember the scene where Quistis tricks Squall into a "date"; Squall was desperate to get away from her and the situation) however, he stayed and talked with Rinoa (assuming you play the correct song) and it's very romantic.

You see Squall LAUGH for the first time with Rinoa when he meets her on the train (much like Cloud & Aerith)... until he laughed with Rinoa he never did that before. For goodness sake, Squall even talked to Rinoa about WHY he didn't like talking or getting close to others... those are signs of Squall opening up and the first person he opened up to like that was for and with Rinoa.

So by the time she's in the coma and Squall wants to hear her voice again it's because he was feeling something (for once), and he knows now that he likes who he is around her and he doesn't want her to ever not be around him because of that.

And it might not look like love to you but the point is Squall was feeling emotions for the first time. THAT is what is romantic, she was able to get him to portray and feel emotions while no one else could and THAT is what builds the foundation for their relationship.

I seriously suggest you replaying the game and paying close attention to everything, including the physical actions of the characters.
 

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#12
I'm sorry but I just have to defend one of my most beloved Final Fantasy games.


Squall has some major childhood trauma which leads him to have trust issues and be distant towards others and desire to push them away so he doesn't loose them like he lost his sort-of- sister Ellone. Squall falls in love with Rinoa at the dance, but Rinoa at that stage was just flirting and wasn't being too serious but she wanted to still have a good dance with Squall. The way Rinoa winks and casually walks away we can tell that Rinoa wasn't taking the dance too seriously. She was just having a good time and being seventeen years old couldn't help that she found Squall attractive.

However because Rinoa walks away like it was nothing Squall is crushed and pissed off and what does he do ? He grunts and Quistis and tells her infamously to go and speak to a wall.

When they met again Rinoa is still crushing over Seifer and starts to find Squall not that cute-y shy guy she danced with at the party. Instead he's cold, distant and anti- social. Squall is also annoyed at Rinoa for again not being that hot confident chick that he danced with at the party. Instead she's bossy, Princess-y, rude and a bit naive. They both find each other extremely annoying and hence they clash.

However during the train rides and parade Rinoa starts to release that Squall is not the total dickhead that she assumed that she was and starts to think much less of Seifer and more of Squall and Squall's annoyance for Rinoa begins to soften.

During CD 2 it's canon that Rinoa comes with Squall to Balamb and not going with Selphie, so Rinoa and Squall get to know each other more and Rinoa tries to help Squall breaks down his walls and become more trusting towards others and enjoy the now instead of being scared about loosing everybody. Squall still has feelings for this girl but why isn't he showing it and being close to her ? Because of his childhood trauma of loosing Ellone. The more he saves Rinoa, the more he starts to realize that he could loose Rinoa or anybody at anytime or any stage, it's only a matter of time and days.

However when something serious does occur to Rinoa her falling into coma. Squall starts to realize that he took her for granted and that Rinoa was right all- along. That he should of treasured the the time that he spent with her instead of being worried that he might loose her or somebody else.
During CD 3 he doesn't really scream " I love you " ! Or anything to Rinoa. Squall instead screams sadness and annoyance for taking Rinoa for granted and desiring for a second chance to be with her. However Squall realizes that Squall is now a adult and that unlike Ellone he can help her and he does his complete best to aid her and end up heading into Space.

In Space Squall and Rinoa only get closer and warmer together and Squall is slowly starting to warm up and close down his walls. While Eyes On Me plays in the background Squall is already being more open that would've of been on CD 1 and expressing his trauma for loosing Ellone at a young age and why he did what he did. So the love for Rinoa isn't all that completely random or sudden.



As for the infamous Orphange plot-twist I really don't see the hate for this because Irvine knows all through the game hence why he struggles to shoot and murder Edea at the Parade and why when he flirts with Selphie he shouts out " Selphie, we are met to be " ! Alot of people say if Irvine knew why didn't he just tell them at the beginning ? Well, would you ? No you wouldn't unless you had balls of steel because there would be huge chances that everybody would think that you were insane and needed help ASAP and what if Irvine was wrong and his childhood was a lie ? So Irvine kept it all in, until he saw Selphie being miserable over the massacre at her Trabia and stopped giving a toss what everybody thought and only to his surprise, everybody did remember and the game DOES hit at Summons causing memory loss

and why is that so hard to believe when the game has a guy using a sword gun ?! I mean you have a fucking DEMON THING in your head.. It makes sense that it causes problems.

As for Squall being Mr leader all the time that makes perfect sense too. Due to the ending when Squall comes to his past and sees Edea and tells her about Ultimeca and SeeD and Balamb and more. Cid knew that he had to become a leader due to his destiny. And would you put Selphie, Zell, Irvine, Quistis, Rinoa, Seifer, or whatever in lead instead ??! I wouldn't.

Zell fucked up huge during the Timber mission, Quistis fucked up big time during the parade, Rinoa sucks at leadership, Irvine breaks down with too much pressure, Seifer is a dickweed and Squall is calm, collected, mature and level-headed. Well till he falls in love with Rinoa anyways.

But yeah I do agree with you that Final Fantasy VIII was heavily rushed. Still love it ten times more than FF VII or FF X though.
 

Riku

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#13
I've played this game a grand total of 3 times as well and I agree with the OP (Vivie). I admit that I may be a bit biased towards the romance between Squall and Rinoa because I did not like their characters at all, but they just never did it for me. The romance always seemed very forced to me and I couldn't get behind it at all which is a shame because the game makes their love to be the major point of the game. So that has always turned me off from FFVIII from the very start. Despite that, I do like many of the other characters and it's a very fun game with amazing design. I had a great time exploring the maps and admiring the scenery. I didn't like drawing or junctioning, but once I got used to it I found it to be a pretty nice challenge throughout the game. It certainly was a different feel from the other games which is one of the reasons I wanted to play it more than once.


On Vivie's first point:
It did seem very random how Squall just became attracted to Rinoa. Rinoa was pushy and optimistic - two things he seemed to hate. He treated Quistis poorly when she wanted to care for and pry into his feelings, but somehow with Rinoa that was all okay? I really didn't understand that. I know he seemed kind of put off from Quistis because she was his teacher, but Rinoa is also just a stranger that he suddenly cared about seemingly.... out of no where? He has a hard time showing affection for anyone, even his friends, but then Rinoa somehow makes him a softer person. Maybe it just took her being in danger for him to realize his feelings but that doesn't change the fact that it felt very rushed and like a sudden jump in the development of their relationship. I just wasn't feeling the romance and not because I didn't like their characters, but because there seemed to be nothing there and then abruptly there was.


On the second point:
I HATED the orphanage plot twist. Irvine was suddenly just like "oh yeah btw we all know each other" lol. It's like ... they could have presented this all a lot better if they were going to go with that. And the usage of GFs somehow messes with their memories? It's an interesting idea but for the most part it makes little sense and just seems silly to me. I also find it kinda weird how Squall and Rinoa were ALMOST related in a sense? Like how awkward would it be if they found out Laguna was into Julia, and everything? Like "yeah my dad used to be into your mom..."
It's just kind of ridiculous to have that in the plot?
 
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#14
Ok guys, After a while I'm here again...

To all people that disagree with me, Firstly I thank you all for letting me know your opinions. I'm too lazy to quote and I don't intend to debate on the matter since it's pretty subjective... Like I said in my 1st post it's just my personal perspective and I didn't expect you all to share my POV though. Anyway if you don't find any flaw in the plot so I guess you could enjoy every little moment of the game like I once did ^^ and that's good for you. Now I realize that "not getting the axe" is just too much to ask when posting negativities on a fans' forum... (I'm still a fan of the game though *gasp* gameplay wise) I've learnt my lesson and shall keep that in mind...

To people that share my POV, I'm grateful to know there are other people that think the same way as me :"> I feel like playing "You are not alone" one more time... ( anyone's up for a jam session !!? (^.^) ♪♫ ♪♪ ♫ )

@ Riku : So you've played the game 3 times as well :) How's about your replaying rate of other FF !!? You know, after the 1st post I replayed FF IX and just finished it. Still love it as the 1st time... (hope this is not off topic :p)

@ Dark Lumina : I really admire you for having played FF VIII so many times that even you've lost count ! What's your favorite party members ? I always stick with the guys coz I never liked having girls in my party. Haha. This applied for all other FF that I've played so far except for FF XIII since the guys were particularly weaker and FF X-2... well what choice do I have there :)))
 
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#15
I'm sorry but I just have to defend one of my most beloved Final Fantasy games.


Squall has some major childhood trauma which leads him to have trust issues and be distant towards others and desire to push them away so he doesn't loose them like he lost his sort-of- sister Ellone. Squall falls in love with Rinoa at the dance, but Rinoa at that stage was just flirting and wasn't being too serious but she wanted to still have a good dance with Squall. The way Rinoa winks and casually walks away we can tell that Rinoa wasn't taking the dance too seriously. She was just having a good time and being seventeen years old couldn't help that she found Squall attractive.

However because Rinoa walks away like it was nothing Squall is crushed and pissed off and what does he do ? He grunts and Quistis and tells her infamously to go and speak to a wall.

When they met again Rinoa is still crushing over Seifer and starts to find Squall not that cute-y shy guy she danced with at the party. Instead he's cold, distant and anti- social. Squall is also annoyed at Rinoa for again not being that hot confident chick that he danced with at the party. Instead she's bossy, Princess-y, rude and a bit naive. They both find each other extremely annoying and hence they clash.

However during the train rides and parade Rinoa starts to release that Squall is not the total dickhead that she assumed that she was and starts to think much less of Seifer and more of Squall and Squall's annoyance for Rinoa begins to soften.

During CD 2 it's canon that Rinoa comes with Squall to Balamb and not going with Selphie, so Rinoa and Squall get to know each other more and Rinoa tries to help Squall breaks down his walls and become more trusting towards others and enjoy the now instead of being scared about loosing everybody. Squall still has feelings for this girl but why isn't he showing it and being close to her ? Because of his childhood trauma of loosing Ellone. The more he saves Rinoa, the more he starts to realize that he could loose Rinoa or anybody at anytime or any stage, it's only a matter of time and days.

However when something serious does occur to Rinoa her falling into coma. Squall starts to realize that he took her for granted and that Rinoa was right all- along. That he should of treasured the the time that he spent with her instead of being worried that he might loose her or somebody else.
During CD 3 he doesn't really scream " I love you " ! Or anything to Rinoa. Squall instead screams sadness and annoyance for taking Rinoa for granted and desiring for a second chance to be with her. However Squall realizes that Squall is now a adult and that unlike Ellone he can help her and he does his complete best to aid her and end up heading into Space.

In Space Squall and Rinoa only get closer and warmer together and Squall is slowly starting to warm up and close down his walls. While Eyes On Me plays in the background Squall is already being more open that would've of been on CD 1 and expressing his trauma for loosing Ellone at a young age and why he did what he did. So the love for Rinoa isn't all that completely random or sudden.



As for the infamous Orphange plot-twist I really don't see the hate for this because Irvine knows all through the game hence why he struggles to shoot and murder Edea at the Parade and why when he flirts with Selphie he shouts out " Selphie, we are met to be " ! Alot of people say if Irvine knew why didn't he just tell them at the beginning ? Well, would you ? No you wouldn't unless you had balls of steel because there would be huge chances that everybody would think that you were insane and needed help ASAP and what if Irvine was wrong and his childhood was a lie ? So Irvine kept it all in, until he saw Selphie being miserable over the massacre at her Trabia and stopped giving a toss what everybody thought and only to his surprise, everybody did remember and the game DOES hit at Summons causing memory loss

and why is that so hard to believe when the game has a guy using a sword gun ?! I mean you have a fucking DEMON THING in your head.. It makes sense that it causes problems.

As for Squall being Mr leader all the time that makes perfect sense too. Due to the ending when Squall comes to his past and sees Edea and tells her about Ultimeca and SeeD and Balamb and more. Cid knew that he had to become a leader due to his destiny. And would you put Selphie, Zell, Irvine, Quistis, Rinoa, Seifer, or whatever in lead instead ??! I wouldn't.

Zell fucked up huge during the Timber mission, Quistis fucked up big time during the parade, Rinoa sucks at leadership, Irvine breaks down with too much pressure, Seifer is a dickweed and Squall is calm, collected, mature and level-headed. Well till he falls in love with Rinoa anyways.

But yeah I do agree with you that Final Fantasy VIII was heavily rushed. Still love it ten times more than FF VII or FF X though.
this is an old thread but i was reading this around 1am lol. i also myself agree to the main post that some moments felt a bit abrupt, and that Rinoa was a bit childish at some points, which sometimes i feel doesn't suit the way she looks, but that's just me.
but also i agree to your post, it is very sensible. true, a lot of internal thoughts from squall that we dont actually see. and Rinoa's behaviour is also plausible because of her late mother and dad that isn't around all that often. cheesy thing i felt was that everyone was from Edea's orphanage, that is tooo much of a concidence. if a few of them, say maybe just squall, quistis and irvine from the same orphanage, that'll be ok, or maybe and Zell, but ALL of them??

i do still adore FF8, it is also like all our adolescent years, when we were just growing up.
 

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#16
It would seem like that with anyone for Squall, though. That was the point. This guy that ignored his feelings and kept everyone at a distance wouldn't recognize love even if it punched him in the face, let alone know how to interact or know what to do with said feelings. His feelings for her grew gradually, but he didn't vocalize them or even recognize them because he just didn't know what they were or what to do with them. That's why Rinoa being in a coma is so significant for him--it was that life and death situation that made him realize that he wasn't going to hide his feelings anymore. And if you pay attention to the game, you see a lot of moments where Squall is softer with Rinoa and more lenient with her then he ever was with anyone else.

For example, he might have acted "tough" during the SeeD festival but he still went with her and spoke about things (if you remember the scene where Quistis tricks Squall into a "date"; Squall was desperate to get away from her and the situation) however, he stayed and talked with Rinoa (assuming you play the correct song) and it's very romantic.

You see Squall LAUGH for the first time with Rinoa when he meets her on the train (much like Cloud & Aerith)... until he laughed with Rinoa he never did that before. For goodness sake, Squall even talked to Rinoa about WHY he didn't like talking or getting close to others... those are signs of Squall opening up and the first person he opened up to like that was for and with Rinoa.

So by the time she's in the coma and Squall wants to hear her voice again it's because he was feeling something (for once), and he knows now that he likes who he is around her and he doesn't want her to ever not be around him because of that.

And it might not look like love to you but the point is Squall was feeling emotions for the first time. THAT is what is romantic, she was able to get him to portray and feel emotions while no one else could and THAT is what builds the foundation for their relationship.

I seriously suggest you replaying the game and paying close attention to everything, including the physical actions of the characters.
Why did his feelings grow for her in the first place? I mean it's not like she did anything but annoy the shit out of him (and the player). People always harp on about FF7's love story being "flat" and "undeveloped" but FF8's was even less believable for me. Also I just rewatched that scene where he meets her on the train and he didn't laugh once, not sure where you got that from.
 
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#17
Seeing the debate over the story and characters, I thought I’d add my two cents. My friend and I played through the whole game together (though I did level grind on my own time) and you can see my full analysis elsewhere in this forum. However, in regards to the story, with the benefit of hindsight, we began to realize why VIII’s story is so divisive:

The main problem with VIII’s story is that it’s trying way too hard to be VII, and it’s at its best when it’s doing something original.

I mean, think about it: A standoffish amnesiac with a distinctive sword helps out a ragtag resistance movement against a corrupt government for selfish reasons, winds up fighting against a powerful and terrifying enemy (whose powers include mind control and possession) trying to free one of their precursors and in the process killing the former supposed villain who happens to be president, the amnesiac occasionally does battle against minor villains led by a guy with reddish hair dressed in white, at one point gets arrested and thrown into a desert prison, his team goes on a mission to try and sabotage a missile launch, and the hero’s backstory is intertwined with an upbeat guy with black hair.

Oh, and the Moombas were clearly designed after Red XIII. Don’t tell me you don’t see the resemblance.

However, when the story does it’s own thing, it’s actually kind of cool. The Waltz scene, the Dollet Landing, the assasination attempt at the parade, the Battle of the Gardens (which was great except for THAT F#%&ING PARATROOPER), the lore surrounding the sorceresses, Laguna’s story told entirely through flashbacks, Seifer giving Odin a taste of his own medicine... But all the originality is sprinkled lightly throughout the first 2 discs and crammed way too tightly into disc 3, almost like the last third is the story they really wanted to tell, but they were caught completely off guard by VII’s smashing success and were trying to capitalize on familiar elements for most of it... and doing a pretty lousy job.

But like I said, the story isn’t bad. And though I may have a laundry list of problems with VIII, I overall enjoyed it. It’s kind of like the Last Jedi- it’s an awkward mix of pure genius and utter garbage, but ultimately, I’ll remember the good more than the bad.

Besides, it’s hard to hate a game where this sentence actually came out of my mouth once:

”Where did I park the college?!”
 
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#18
Seeing the debate over the story and characters, I thought I’d add my two cents. My friend and I played through the whole game together (though I did level grind on my own time) and you can see my full analysis elsewhere in this forum. However, in regards to the story, with the benefit of hindsight, we began to realize why VIII’s story is so divisive:

The main problem with VIII’s story is that it’s trying way too hard to be VII, and it’s at its best when it’s doing something original.

I mean, think about it: A standoffish amnesiac with a distinctive sword helps out a ragtag resistance movement against a corrupt government for selfish reasons, winds up fighting against a powerful and terrifying enemy (whose powers include mind control and possession) trying to free one of their precursors and in the process killing the former supposed villain who happens to be president, the amnesiac occasionally does battle against minor villains led by a guy with reddish hair dressed in white, at one point gets arrested and thrown into a desert prison, his team goes on a mission to try and sabotage a missile launch, and the hero’s backstory is intertwined with an upbeat guy with black hair.

Oh, and the Moombas were clearly designed after Red XIII. Don’t tell me you don’t see the resemblance.

However, when the story does it’s own thing, it’s actually kind of cool. The Waltz scene, the Dollet Landing, the assasination attempt at the parade, the Battle of the Gardens (which was great except for THAT F#%&ING PARATROOPER), the lore surrounding the sorceresses, Laguna’s story told entirely through flashbacks, Seifer giving Odin a taste of his own medicine... But all the originality is sprinkled lightly throughout the first 2 discs and crammed way too tightly into disc 3, almost like the last third is the story they really wanted to tell, but they were caught completely off guard by VII’s smashing success and were trying to capitalize on familiar elements for most of it... and doing a pretty lousy job.

But like I said, the story isn’t bad. And though I may have a laundry list of problems with VIII, I overall enjoyed it. It’s kind of like the Last Jedi- it’s an awkward mix of pure genius and utter garbage, but ultimately, I’ll remember the good more than the bad.

Besides, it’s hard to hate a game where this sentence actually came out of my mouth once:

”Where did I park the college?!”
i like your reply too.
this probably why Final fantasy 15 took sooo many years, they must have written a lot, scrapped it to redo it all over again, thats why it took so long. and thats what was missing in FF8 that does make it look kind of silly some place and awesome at some place.

they want a nice twist about the soceress thing, but its just not entirely in place.
yes, i still like it despite the quirks, there were some nice awesome stuff about it. i wish the game could be longer, story more defined, some deeper workthrough of Squall and Rinoa, they dont have enough development. I myself was confused, that at some parts were too rushed, about the couple.

you know what i want, not just a remake but a continuation of FF8. like a FFViii-2 , where we see squall has gone more mature, with the group still with him, doing great missions around the world.
 
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