Image if SeeD members have this combat ability.

Dionysos

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Something I learned recently. They apparently actually did use motion capture actors for some of the cgi scenes in the game.



(Selphie at 0:45 in this clip ^)

I'm not sure if there were many others beyond that, but I found that interesting.

There were serious limitations during the PSX era, so the fact that they even tried to replicate human movements during the cinematics is a huge step up from FFVII and, I'm sure, fairly advanced for its day.

If they were to make a remake of FFVIII then I have no doubt that they'd want to add additional cool stunts like the ones you propose during various combat sequences. They added several stunts in the FFVII Remake (I mean, there must have been no less than a hundred stunts by Roche alone...) so it stands to reason that they'd do something similar if they ever give FFVIII the same attention.
 

congduc9589

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I haven’t played FF 7 remake yet but watched all FF cutscene so far. I realize that although the character model in-game is soulful, there are some issues Square Enix may be entangling:
- Most of the characters intend to be “full of hot air” during a fight. I know it is affected by anime style but not many gamers in the world may like it. And I am pretty sure that 90% of this fighting is the same as MMORPG games, 10% is special effects and complicated models.
- In the cutscene, I feel characters are still acting like children though they have become proper in the fight. For example, Aerith in FF7 remake can take down a man with a chair but it may not unnecessary. I propose that it would be better if she is possessed by a mysterious voice to fight well like the man in the movie "Upgrade" (in the clip). Imagine if she fights some guys with her rod until a man uses a knife on her, she disarms it then counter-attack but still says: "I am sorry, sooo sorry..." while the man screams like way of Cloud with Madam M. Just kidding:). But if this thing come true, the gamer will feel funny even the scene will be brutal.
I do not hope SE can apply some fighting styles in movies to the FF gameplay but at least in cutscene. Now both Wach Dog Legion and Detroit become human are completed to apply it in their game. So I think SE can do it well, also.
 

Mister Goober

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OP, sorry, but I can't give you a thumbs up, man.

The last thing this game needs is more fantasy. I actually particularly appreciate them putting a roundhouse kick and even a Muay Thai style knee in Zell's combo arsenal because those things WORK in a real MMA ring. They've worked many times and will always work.

On the contrary, you got Quistis with the same damage potential in her melee attacks than with Irvine's gun. Holy hell that's ridiculous. Now, Final Fantasy 8 is my life. It really is my life and it continues to define my life even today, but if circumstances were so that I, of all people, am the head of its development, here's how I would relegate the characters' fighting styles.

  • Squall would be wielding a club with a terrifying head, perhaps a spiky metal ball. Why? Because it would imitate the weight of a gunblade without the magical explosion. And it would HURT to get hit, making him a legitimate threat against ARMORED Galbadian soldiers.
  • Rinoa would have a pistol, because she's my waifu and I freakin' want her to be able to legitimately protect herself without being so powerful that her vulnerability is gone. She's meant to be vulnerable, because vulnerability in a woman is sexy as hell.
  • Irvine stays the same because guns are perfect in that environment and technology level.
  • Considering how Quistis is a blue mage and beastmaster, I would replace her weapon with an actual animal for her melee attacks, like a savage panther who lunges at the enemy at her command.
  • Selphie would be carrying a baton, which is far inferior than my Squall's death-club because she's a white mage and nobody cares about her melee abilities. And a baton is more reasonable than a band-aid, even though she's a white mage.
  • Zell would be the same but far larger and far more muscular, with lore behind him as some kind of physically mutated human with inhuman physical traits like crazy speed, crazy strength, and crazy durability. He wouldn't be the boyish Zell. He'd be a monster. Size matters in the power of a punch.

My ideas are far less aesthetic, but they are far more real. And honestly, to me, realism is a far better idea than more fantasy in an already fantasy-filled game. If Final Fantasy 8, instead, was released in the heyday of the PS4 with PS4 graphics, I guarantee you my ideas would sell better. Look at one of the episodes of Attack on Titan. They literally showed two Titans engage in a grappling match, with the villain executing a mount position while the hero attempted to guillotine him. Today, we would see that as exciting and realistic. Before the days of MMA, that's just bizarre. One man on top of another.

For the sake of tradition and nostalgia, though, I wouldn't change a damn thing in Final Fantasy 8. It will feel like desecrating a tomb for me. It's my childhood. But my point remains, Final Fantasy 8 by itself contains a ton of whacky fantastical stuff in it. No need to add unrealistic things like seemingly choreographed combat moves.

EDIT: I'm gonna go ahead and click "Like" on your post because it turns out, the SECOND video you posted showed tons of realism. It was the first video I had a real issue with. "Most Creative" does not equate to realism for me.
 

congduc9589

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Allow me to explain more about my idea:
Firstly, the first video in my previous post shows how to apply the choreographed combat move in the gameplay. But it is not actually important because each of the characters in FF has different skills of using weapons in combat. On the other hand, a character who uses a gun can “overkill” the enemies in a battle by doing choreographed combat. I thought that this may a good idea. However, for now, I realize that there are 2 ways to show this ability completely perhaps: through the cutscene, and complete a quick time event as the second video. Therefore, this ability may be better shown in the “limit break”.
Secondly, in my opinion, it is not simply choosing a real martial art then apply to the game. I mean we should put it in a story so that the gamers will see another interesting history in the FF world. For example, a story may look like this: A long time ago, when magic covered the whole world, a man, or a woman, or maybe a group, created a kind of MA to help people, who are unable to learn magic because of its complication and danger, can protect themselves against the bad witch, then the monster and other threats. This MA has rules:
One, it originates in a dance that is similar to Yuna’s dance in FF10, so the trainer can learn how to keep calm and process any movements in combat.
Two, the combatant can use most normal objects like weapons in a battle, such as a book or a pencil...
There, it is only effective in self-defense. If a trainer tries to use it to assault other people for a long time, the result is very terrifying: he or she will lose control in mind and begin to go mad.
This MA is trained in a secret so only a few can learn it completely, handed down from generation to generation. Over the years, the MA falls into oblivion due to the development of technology. Sometimes, a few details of it can be seen appearing in training groups of Gardens, used in the performance and fitness programme.
Here, you may see 3 features of this creative MA in making a good story: the art, the tradition, and the bad result when everything goes wrong. These are also 3 points in a story if SE has an intention to remaking the game, or even create a new one: a new cultural activity in the FF world, a special skill the gamers have never seen before, and a climax in the story.
The example of a MA is several. And I prefer a mixture of Jujitsu, Aikido in Japan, Pencak Silat in Indochina, and a fictitious MA named Guntaku. Here are some of them:
Unfortunately, I cannot find out any games applied to this MA but Detroit: Become Human
***You tell me Rinoa can use a gun so another story may like: Julia Heartilly loves Laguna, but they cannot come together. Like the original story, she gets married to Fury Caraway but this marriage is not happy. Fury concentrates hard on his duty so he leaves Julia and their daughter, Rinoa, alone. However, Julia is still faithful and helps her husband at work. She sometimes drones out the song "Eyes on me" to swallow her sorrow. Meanwhile, Rinoa is very mischievous. She likes to play with boys in street and always makes them fear. One day, when taking Rinoa out, Julia is attacked by mobs who work for her husband's competitor in the military. She is very calm to talk Rinoa that close the eyes and count on ten, so her daughter won't hear anything from the attack and wait until the mobs leave. After doing it, Rinoa sees her mother's wound, she promises that she will become a combatant to protect her mother, but never done it because Julia is assassinated when she is 5. At the age of 15, Rinoa joins a mysterious group that trains the MA. With her joy and heartiness, Rinoa can make people become comfortable after the hard training. However, the master of the group, who is a woman, decides to keep Rinoa stay here forever after finding out her magic potential. She intends to use the MA to overpower Rinoa's ability. When deciding to leave the group to come back to Timber, Rinoa is asked to fight against the group members by the master, but no one tries to harm her due to Rinoa's competence and their relationship. The master then decides to do it herself. She tells the reason for keeping Rinoa here is to protect her from being possessed in the future. She also affirms that Rinoa will never complete the MA to be able to protect herself. Rinoa doesn't believe in this master so both of them fight to each other. When nearly defeated by the master, Rinoa shows her ability of magic. This makes the master go mad and tries to kill Rinoa. But Rinoa holds a bunny puppet in front of the master, sings a song while swinging the puppet. This method really makes the master feel calm down. Suddenly, the eyes of the bunny puppet turn red, then a stream of liquid covers Rinoa's arms and explodes. It turns out that the puppet is a kind of killing trap. Many years ago, Rinoa has used this thing to make people laugh once, but the master appeared to stop her, then told her that: "The beauty is always the most dangerous weapon in our fight style".. In the end, the master treats Rinoa with the help of a member, then carries her go back to the camp. When seeing other members in the camp, the master cries: "Save her..." then falls down. Both of them lay on the snowy ground.. and the song "Eyes on me" sung by Rinoa's mother is shown again.
This is also the reason why Rinoa wears two green sleeves for most of her life in the game.
And, before Rinoa dances with Squall then deals with Cid Krammer in Balamb Garden, she has mended her arms to look like normal. With the high technology in FF game where a big house can fly, Rinoa is not difficult in doing this. When failing to dance with Squall for a while, her arms start to tremble. When Squall sees that, he decides to leave but Rinoa holds him back and says: "Sorry, I just want to be normal again, so help me, please.." They thus continue to dance together.
Here is an example of Rinoa's fight in this story (sorry I can't find out another better). No need to be the same in 100% but should be cool like this, especially the brutal ending is unnecessary to be shown:
 

Dionysos

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For example, Aerith in FF7 remake can take down a man with a chair but it may not unnecessary. I propose that it would be better if she is possessed by a mysterious voice to fight well like the man in the movie "Upgrade" (in the clip). Imagine if she fights some guys with her rod until a man uses a knife on her, she disarms it then counter-attack but still says: "I am sorry, sooo sorry..." while the man screams like way of Cloud with Madam M. Just kidding:). But if this thing come true, the gamer will feel funny even the scene will be brutal.
The context of the scene is important here. When seeing the Don they all had to leave their weapons behind. By picking up a chair Aerith was just improvising with what was in the room. And it was also a joke presumably referencing popular wrestling entertainment like WWE. Aerith’s actions here subverts the expectations of the audience of how a person like Aerith should fight. The scene became a popular meme for this reason.

About the use of martial arts-inspired fight scenes in Final Fantasy, I guess it would be most appropriate for 'Monk' class characters like Tifa, Zell and (perhaps most appropriate of all) Sabin. It might be cool for the infamous Tifa and Scarlet 'bitch-slap' fight scene in the original game to instead be a more epic, choreographed close-quarters fight sequence in the Remake, whether it is semi-controlled by the player or turned into a cutscene.

Final Fantasy in general has a long tradition of varied job classes, and I don't know if advanced close-quarters combat of the style presented in the above videos would be appropriate for all characters.

For FFVIII specifically, however, I can completely get behind it being part of the training of SeeD cadets. Including 'Guntaku' style fighting.
Rinoa using her dog in battle in FFVIII is a bit farfetched, but I’m not sure that an exploding rabbit puppet would be any less farfetched. A fighting style which works her dog into the battle (a sort of ‘Woofjitsu’ or ‘Barktaku’, maybe :thehead: ) could be cool. But I don’t think anybody was ever meant to take Rinoa firing her dog out of her crossbow seriously. It seems to me like a joke, and there are plenty of jokes like this in the Final Fantasy franchise.

At the end of the day, Final Fantasy is Fantasy, for better or for worse. Some games like FFVIII are more realistic than others, but fantasy remains a significant element. Magic exists. The laws of physics do not always apply in the ways we’d recognise them. Liberties have been taken. I think choreographed fight scenes would be a great bonus for future games in the franchise, or potential remakes of FFVIII in the future specifically (it could be cool to imagine the inter-Garden battles like this, for example), but I think that altering the entire premise to make it a martial arts story would undermine the story the game intends to tell.

It could, however, make for a very interesting retelling/reinterpretation in a fan-made project.
 

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Thanks for your reply. Actually, Rinoa's story here is a part of the whole story which is not completely about martial art only. In fact, it's about the adventure of traveling through the timeline. This idea may connect the world of FF7 and FF8 together.
The Master in my story is a woman who has lost her family due to the damage of her timeline, and the rabbit puppet is a gift that she gives to her little daughter. When witnessing the sorceress Ultimecia kill her colleague and take a belonging thing from this man, she hopes that one day if she is defeated then the gift is taken by Ultimecia, this thing will annihilate the sorceress. But her carefulness becomes a threat when Rinoa uses it to calm her down in the battle.
About the MA she uses, it is trained for agents who have a duty of assassinating all magicians in the world. They are also responsible for the decrease of the Centra after the event of Jenova.
I completely agree that the significant element of the FF is "fantasy". However, you may also think about putting a good story into this. For example, you can ask yourself: "what is the other side of the fantasy?". Well, I will answer it like: "The pragmatic or, the brutality". The world we are living in exists several fantasy things, but if they all lose, the people will see a kind of "bitter truth" under the eyes. Then, the "fantasy" may become a part of "a new hope".
I think that the gamer has seen the brutality, or the "bitter truth" when witnessing Aerith's death. But now, we might see a "fantasy" thing in the FF 7 remake, just be a little hope, that she will be survived.
I can't explain more about the importance of giving to the FF story many other things besides the magic. But you may refer to a story below.
 

congduc9589

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The story of Ultimecia:

My idea is that she is a Centra, or Cetra woman. In the timeline where she is living, the Cetra is underdevelopment and very low in the population (I will call it Timeline 1). Therefore, she decides to travel back to the timeline in the past and change it until her nation is great again.

However, when her team is attacking an ISS in space, believed to contain the time machine, a woman from her team, code name Jenova, betrays all to travel back to the timeline alone. Although Jenova succeeds in doing it, even drives a shutter space through the timestream, she is dying because the artificial Cetra DNA inside her, which is created to lie Ultimecia, is unstable. After going to the FF7 timeline, Jenova has already got out before shutter space falls down to the land and explodes. She then uses her magic from the DNA to disguises the cover of the shutter space to a meteorite to hide the local people. This act makes her nearly exhausted so she has to quickly interact with any Cetra people to find a way of fixing the DNA. But the result is that she has brought a pandemic to them. It’s the prologue of the FF7 story. With Ultimecia, the situation is now completely messed up.

However, Ultimecia’s team is possible to go to the timestream, which is still activating, to catch up with Jenova. Due to being wounded during the battle in space, Ultimecia can't follow other members to stop Jenova in the FF7 timeline. Instead, she chooses to go to a timeline, where she can recharge her energy and use the magic to change anything in the past from this timeline, which is called Timeline 2. Now it’s the prologue of FF8 main story. To do that she gets a plan: sending her mind to interact with Rinoa after the battle of Gardens. From here, everything will go like exactly the original story of FF8. On the other hand, she does this plan in secret so her identity will not be gone down to history. Therefore, anyone in Timeline 1 who tries to stop her may not know where exactly Timeline 2 is.

Consequently, as we all know to FF8 ending, Ultimecia uses magic to send her mind to Edea. Therefore, she can guarantee that Timeline 2 will never be broken by completing a time loop, even though she has been defeated by the SeeD at last. The Cetra nation thereby continues to develop until Timeline 1 and the purpose of Ultimecia has finally been completed.

The story of the Master:

With the result of Ultimecia’s success, Timeline 1 has been changed and it affects the life of the Master. Before the battle in space, the Master is an agent who is recruited to protect the time machine in space. She is survived during the battle with a few agents and a scientist. From space, they all know that everything on Earth has been gone, including their family. Luckily, the scientist guides all to another time machine which is contained in a part of the ISS. Although this machine is a kind of demo but the scientist, with his strongest emotion to be survived, has finally completed and activated the machine. There, all survivors reluctantly gather in a team and travel back to timelines to stop Ultimecia’s team.

Because it’s another timestream created by a different time machine so they can’t follow Ultimecia’s team. Instead, they have come to a different timeline, which is created from the result of Ultimecia’s success. Here, they discuss choosing what timeline should go next. Although Ultimecia has hidden Timeline 2 from history, her action in possessing Rinoa is still recorded. In this way, the Master has a plan to stop Ultimecia once and for all: travel to a timeline where she can meet Rinoa and train her to become an agent. Rinoa has survived after the last training I’ve told before.

In the battle of Gardens, Rinoa would have killed Edea if Squall hasn’t stopped her on time. Under the trauma, Rinoa goes off into a faint like the FF8 original story, Ultimecia thus still controls her, and then Squall has to bring her to Esthar. Rinoa wakes up but before interacting with Adea, she has faced an Esthar soldier who turns out a member of the Master’s team. He recognizes Ultimecia inside Rinoa and understands everything. So, he is purposeful to make Rinoa kill him. In this way, Rinoa immediately remembers her fighting with the Master. But the death of the Esthar/the Master’s team guy has made all Esthar soldiers really attack her. Rinoa/Ultimecia can’t, therefore, interact with Adea due to under the heavy surround. The SeeD has no way but joins to the battle to stop Rinoa/Ultimecia and not let any soldiers kill her. After the battle, Ultimecia’s mind is exiled from Rinoa’s head. Squall is fainted away due to trying to save Rinoa. But in the end, Rinoa is still killed by… (I think I should stop here).

With the dead of Rinoa, Ultimecia fails to free Adea. More importantly, the Master has already known the location of Ultimecia in Timeline 2. Ultimecia also feels this by using her magic, so she decides to stop her plan of traveling back to any timelines. However, the Master doesn’t use her tool to travel to Timeline 2. Instead, she gives it to Ellone through her trainee, with a message that: “Save her…from the past”.

As a result, Squall will attend to the new adventure: traveling through the timeline to save his lover.

By the end of this story, we can see both Ultimecia and the Master are failed in their mission, and so are their teams. However, I suppose that Timeline 1 has been finally saved, but it will be a huge story to tell. I mean, it should be a new FF game in the future.

And here are some points from this story:

- Jenova has changed the name “Cetra” to “Centra”. This thing shows her strong desire of becoming The Highest Goddess: the letter “n” in her name should be added to the “Cetra”. There are still few of the Cetra people who remember their race's name, but all of them have been nearly annihilated in the FF7 timeline. When Ultimecia just sees the Cetra name become “Centra”, she knows that everything has been messed up.

- Rinoa becomes an agent instead of a sorceress. And she still has a plan of defeating Edea like the original story. Before that, she has been a leader of Forest Owls by using her skill. Meanwhile, in the original FF8 story, she becomes the leader by winning the people’s hearts.

- Before Rinoa dies, she has asked Edea, who tried to save her by magic, to give a letter to Squall.

- By the result of Ultimecia’s failure, it considers the trouble in FF8 story closed. Now Squall has to enter the Timestream with his friends, by using the tool of the Master, to defeat this woman and her team who is traveling inside it. (This should be cool fighting). When the battle goes to climax, Squall convinces members of the Master’s team not to stop Ultimecia right now. As a consequence, these members agree to move to other timelines (FF7 and another FF timeline) except the Master. She wants to fight against Squall without her team due to her lust for revenge. Squall has asked his friends to come back their timeline before accepting this fight.

The Master is finally defeated, which affects her in the FF8 timeline. Before she “feels” that in this timeline, she has already adopted a little girl. When seeing the little girl laugh due to finally recognized by the family, the Master just remembers her daughter in her timeline. She smiles, clearly knows one thing that her timeline has been saved. So, she accepts her fate in the FF8 timeline and melts away before the little girl sees her in order to introduce the family.

- Before being killed by Squall in the timestream, the Master has just held him like the image of the FF8 logo, which may surprise the gamer. After the death of the Master, the FF8 timeline now comes back to its origin.

- Squall at this time is under a serious wound, but he is saved by some characters who are moving to Kingdom Hearts timeline. (This timeline is a kind of “bug” in the timestream).

- The man who is purposeful to make Rinoa kill him has just overcome a terrifying mission in the FF8 timeline: he searched and eliminated Ellone’s family because he thought that Ellone is a sorceress who will be possessed by Ultimecia in the future. However, after killing her family and when seeing her hidden behind a closet with terrified eyes, he has spared her because he had recognized that he was wrong. Since then, this man has just waited and kept his eyes on Ellone until she grows up, then he decides to become her protector in Esthar. Because of seeing the family’s death, Ellone always fears monsters because they make her look back on the man. Therefore, Laguna has promised to protect her from any of them. In the end, the man is obsessed with his guilty in the past so he quickly lets Rinoa/ Ultimecia take him.

- The death of Rinoa may be a result of the event that Aerith has been alive (I haven’t known the story of FF7 remake part 2 yet so this is a supposition only).

- To know if Timeline returns to its origin, just see the name “Centra” changed again to “Cetra”.
- This music is an idea that fits to describe the death of Rinoa, or the Master so it may be an end credit soundtrack: https://soundcloud.com/varesesarabanderecords%2Fplastic-heart-performed-by-ciscandra-nostalghia-from-john-wick-chapter-2
- Finally, Parasite Eve might be a timeline in the FF world. This timeline should be put to the “year one” when people are going to face demons, monsters, and deadly pandemics in doomsday. This event leads to a new world and the era of the Cetra, who is immune to the pandemic and thus knows how to use magic. Moreover, the heritage of PE may appear again in the time of Jenova. The reason for this idea is that I hope one day, Square Enix will make a kind of zombie/monster action game developed together with FF game, like Call of Duty with Black Ops Zombie.
 
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