Exploring the complicated/endless timeliness of the main story....

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hey there everyone!! After recently beating FF8 (remarkable experience by the way) my brain can't help but jump to and endless stream of possibilities for how the story actually ended....

late in the game, Rinoa becomes a sorceress, I've seen some theorize that Ultimecia is actually Rinoa from a different timeline where she lost squall, and due to GF causing brain/memory, she likely feel into deep despair in which her sorceress powers were manipulated by this "broken" rinoa in that timeline....I could see this being a possibility since Ultimecia summons the GF Griever, which is squalls totem, possibility hinting they have a connection...

The ending of the game shows squall with Edea as Ultimecia gives her the sorceress powers, in turn, squalls tells Edea about Garden and SeeD, assuming this is an attempt to create a timeline in the past where society has a specific military collective to combat sorceress (which is successful as we obviously see as thats a main plot point of the game....)

is it through the transference of Ultimecias powers given to Edea that she is later able to mind control Edea through the future? If so, then does that mean that Ultimecia had this as a backup plan for if she was defeated? Sorceress powers MUST be passed on, and Edea (from the past) gladly makes the sacrifice

Ultimecia, being from the future, doesn't that mean that she IS in fact a descendant of Rinoa who has passesd on her powers to future individuals?

While I have no way or justifiably proving this entirely....something tells me that Ultimecia is forcing time compression to happen, as a sort of "Devils Advocate" circumstance.... as a way to force all timelines into one where she exists with the sorceress powers, though the person responsible for giving it to her no longer exists in a past timeline...essentially ending the powers of the sorceresses forever? (its a stretch i know....

Is Ultimecia trying to destroy herself along with the powers of the sorceress, from the future by manipulating the past?

IF ultimecia gave her powers to Edea, does that mean every event that transpired throughout the game would essentially only repeat itself because "defeating" ultimecia set in motion a wave of events that leads to Edea becoming her sucessor and Garden/SeeD being born by Squall telling Edea from the past to create it...?

The party destroyed Adel as a way to force ultimecia to posses Rinoa from the future, and thanks to the help of Ellone the party is able to enter a window to travel to the future where Ultimecia exists and destroy her there....

The game ends with Rinoa crying with unconscious Squall, is it through her Sorceress powers that she was able to place herself and him into the timeline they originally came from?

If the now-defeated-ultimecia-from-the-future transfers her powers to Edea in the past, which was mentioned earlier on during the main story....doesn't that mean, squall and everyone defeating her in the future is something that has [already] happened in this timeline...? The only reason I could imagine as to why Squall and the others have no memory of that detail is that the GF's they use damage their brain/memory so have no memory of the event

Ellone is easily the strongest variable in this complicated situation, because it is through Ellones powers that squall and everyone is able to travel to the timeline future where Ultimecia exists, who simultaneously is accessing the past through the machine created by doctor Odine, which was inspired to replicate Ellones psychic powers....

While the game ends with everyone back in their correct timeline and future-ultimecia defeated and now given her powers to Edea in the past....the group has defeated FUTURE ultimecia, but the sorceress powers, technologies, and individuals used by the future-ultimecia still exist....doesn't that mean the girl who will eventually receive the sorceress powers and eventually become ultimecia still [exists] as a possibility in the timeline we exist in now....



these are simply ideas, brain vomits, theories, and complicated perspectives that have run through my mind as the game has ended...while not every question could potentially be answered, it's fun to explore these ideas, even though they are not official/canon

thanks for reading!!

***

Considering Ultimecias perspective:....she is attempting to save herself from being killed by SeeD by manipulating the past....knowing this, she has every right protect herself. It's not uncommon for Sorceresses to be hated by society, which seems unfair because each Sorceress is forced into this position by the previous Sorceress transfering her powers onto the next woman. They are not related by blood, they are chosen by their magical affinity, so essentially chosen at random.....


In Ultimecias present time (the future in regards to us) she is able to manipulate the past through the machine created by Doctor Odine....is it possible that Ultimecia is able to look into limitless numbers of timelines, all of which will eventually end in her being murdered by SeeD due to society terrorizing her into a monster due to her unwanted powers. she never asked for or wanted....If the only outcome is her being murdered by SeeD, her motive to compress time into a singularity isn't motivated by malice, but y fear and desperation to not be murdered....attempting to remove anyone who might harm her, shes attempting to create a timeline where she can exist in peace.....her motives, though very loosely explained throughout the game, can be more deeply examined through the timeline paradoxes that exist through her manipulaton....

Ultimecia, was NEVER evil, if it appear that she is motivated by malice and domination, it is a RESULT of the society in which she grew up in mistreating her and forcing her into isolation due to her powers that she never asked for....Ultimecia is FORCED into being a villan, helplessly and desperately manipulating multiple timelines to create a reality where she is free and able to live her life without harm or shame....

If Ultimecias goal was to manipulate the past from the future, one could argue that Ultimecia is attempting to force-stop the continuation of the sorceress line by allowing time compression to occur and create a singular timeline where only she exists....she will no longer be murdered and no one will receive her sorceress powers as there will be no other timeline that exists where a woman can receive her powers....

In theoretical conclusion: Ultimecia from the future attempts to manipulate the past in order to save herself from the timeline where she is murdered by SeeD. If ultimecia KNEW squall would eventually defeat her, isn't her death more of a willing suicide. Squall and everyone else did the very thing that ultimecia knew would eventually happen. While [the future] timeline where ultimecia exists to create a singularity as a way to save herself, the timeline where she eventually becomes chosen to be a sorceress still exists. If SeeD [only] exists to combat sorceresses, Rinoa is an unfortunate piece of a larger puzzle that will eventually lead to Ultimecia doing the same exact thing.....Ultimecia knows this endless timeloop only repeats her being hunted and killed by SeeD, so ultimecia -if she had succeded- would have essentially saved the world by forcing herself to be the final sorceress, and removing timelines where violence against her and her predecessors exists.....
 
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I’ve merged the posts together as they were all posted within minutes of each other and in these circumstances are more appropriately placed into a single post.

“Please avoid double posting unless a couple of days have passed and you have something new to add. Always edit your post to respond to everyone that has posted before you, you can multi-quote posts, you should not respond to each quote in an individual post.”
Link: https://www.finalfantasyforums.net/threads/site-rules.52634/

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This is a big topic, and I’m not an expert on Final Fantasy VIII specifically. You ask some fascinating questions and offer some interesting ideas. Unfortunately I will not be able to answer them all at this stage (maybe at a future date, and maybe if others have their own thoughts about this to bounce off).

FFVIII doesn’t contain a very effective or consistent representation of time travel, in my opinion. The whole narrative creates a paradox. Ultimecia’s magic is passed onto Edea. Squall advises Edea about forming SeeD. The Edea that we know in the game therefore appears to be created because of intervention from the future, so how did the future come to be in the first place?

An attempt to answer that question could be that Edea always had sorceress powers, but that they were bolstered/enhanced by Ultimecia and a link was forged between those sorceresses which facilitated the possession later on in Edea’s lifetime.

Otherwise is creates a sort of headache-inducing cyclical view of time travel which is fascinating, but in this game it doesn’t seem to be thought out and has gaping gaps in the logic (other Final Fantasy games do it better).

We don’t really know when Ultimecia will be born, or how far into the future her future world is (see this thread too). We don’t really know much about Ultimecia as a person, from whom she got her powers, and so on. My understanding is that Ultimecia doesn’t need to be a biological descendant of Rinoa. Any women that fit the criteria can become vessels to receive sorceress powers from another sorceress. We don’t know how many generations of sorceresses have existed between Rinoa and Ultimecia. FFVIII’s creators have debunked the Rinoa=Ultimecia theory, as interesting as that theory is, and the majority of Ultimecia’s life and motivations are shrouded in mystery. That might actually be a good thing because mysterious people can be scarier.


Considering Ultimecias perspective:....she is attempting to save herself from being killed by SeeD by manipulating the past....knowing this, she has every right protect herself. It's not uncommon for Sorceresses to be hated by society, which seems unfair because each Sorceress is forced into this position by the previous Sorceress transfering her powers onto the next woman. They are not related by blood, they are chosen by their magical affinity, so essentially chosen at random.....


In Ultimecias present time (the future in regards to us) she is able to manipulate the past through the machine created by Doctor Odine....is it possible that Ultimecia is able to look into limitless numbers of timelines, all of which will eventually end in her being murdered by SeeD due to society terrorizing her into a monster due to her unwanted powers. she never asked for or wanted....If the only outcome is her being murdered by SeeD, her motive to compress time into a singularity isn't motivated by malice, but y fear and desperation to not be murdered....attempting to remove anyone who might harm her, shes attempting to create a timeline where she can exist in peace.....her motives, though very loosely explained throughout the game, can be more deeply examined through the timeline paradoxes that exist through her manipulaton....

Ultimecia, was NEVER evil, if it appear that she is motivated by malice and domination, it is a RESULT of the society in which she grew up in mistreating her and forcing her into isolation due to her powers that she never asked for....Ultimecia is FORCED into being a villan, helplessly and desperately manipulating multiple timelines to create a reality where she is free and able to live her life without harm or shame....

If Ultimecias goal was to manipulate the past from the future, one could argue that Ultimecia is attempting to force-stop the continuation of the sorceress line by allowing time compression to occur and create a singular timeline where only she exists....she will no longer be murdered and no one will receive her sorceress powers as there will be no other timeline that exists where a woman can receive her powers....

In theoretical conclusion: Ultimecia from the future attempts to manipulate the past in order to save herself from the timeline where she is murdered by SeeD. If ultimecia KNEW squall would eventually defeat her, isn't her death more of a willing suicide. Squall and everyone else did the very thing that ultimecia knew would eventually happen. While [the future] timeline where ultimecia exists to create a singularity as a way to save herself, the timeline where she eventually becomes chosen to be a sorceress still exists. If SeeD [only] exists to combat sorceresses, Rinoa is an unfortunate piece of a larger puzzle that will eventually lead to Ultimecia doing the same exact thing.....Ultimecia knows this endless timeloop only repeats her being hunted and killed by SeeD, so ultimecia -if she had succeded- would have essentially saved the world by forcing herself to be the final sorceress, and removing timelines where violence against her and her predecessors exists.....

This is an interesting thought too though, and if we consider this head-canon I honestly think it improves the characterisation of Ultimecia and makes her more nuanced and human. Some of the most popular villains in this franchise are those we can feel sorry for as much as we hate them. Unless the intention is to make us fear the villain, in which case the mysterious approach that they chose for Ultimecia perhaps works well enough for that.

Our imaginations fill in the void. And we construct our own ideas of Ultimecia and her world depending on our own state of mind and the limits of our creativity.

The game ends with Rinoa crying with unconscious Squall, is it through her Sorceress powers that she was able to place herself and him into the timeline they originally came from?

I believe so. It was certainly Rinoa's powers that enabled her to locate Squall when he was lost. I presume she likewise was able to use their emotional connection to each other to bridge time somehow and bring him home.
 
I love Final Fantasy VIII Theorying! IMO it's one of the most interesting titles to inspect with regards to the vague nature of its detailing on it's lore. It has been a while since I have played the game and hope to replay it next year - Got a lot going on and I already know I want to dive in deep with FF7 with the upcoming re-release of Crisis Core!

is it through the transference of Ultimecias powers given to Edea that she is later able to mind control Edea through the future? If so, then does that mean that Ultimecia had this as a backup plan for if she was defeated? Sorceress powers MUST be passed on, and Edea (from the past) gladly makes the sacrifice
From my understanding this is correct Ultimecia is in control of Edea during Disc 1-2.

The problem is that we really don't have much leads to go on in regards to Ultemcia as a character and her motivations - We only really meet her right up until the end of the game - There is one moment where she sense Ellone invading her time/space if I recall.

Is Ultimecia trying to destroy herself along with the powers of the sorceress, from the future by manipulating the past?
i was never under the impression Ultimecia had aims to destroy the Sorcessess succession - She is power hungry and the entity we meet at the end of the game is very bitter and cruel.

IF ultimecia gave her powers to Edea, does that mean every event that transpired throughout the game would essentially only repeat itself because "defeating" ultimecia set in motion a wave of events that leads to Edea becoming her sucessor and Garden/SeeD being born by Squall telling Edea from the past to create it...?
i recently read a book dedicated to the game called The Legend of Final Fantasy VIII and in it it talks about the theory of time travel and its rules. There are different perspectives on T-T and depending on the take on how T-T works can change the outcome as to how it takes place in FF8.

A fixed Chronology - The course of the events are set in placed and cannot be altered.
Dynamic Timeline - When altering the past can change actions in the future.
Alterinate Realities - Where each choiced you make creates a root and an alterate turn of events

I think the 1st two are more relevant to the story of VIII as I never got sense of multiple-realities existing.

I really wish the Disc 4 portion of the game was longer. With the party being thrown into this world of Chaos after time compression. I'd be interested to see more of the world under Ultimecia's reign and what she was like. I never liked how the World Map was the same just inacessible I would have preffered to see a desolate landmass with maybe a few resistance camps or something. But the team had a job to do and got right to it I guess :P

Also, I'm not sure how much you picked up on the lore of Hyne, its only noted twice through NPC's in the game! But it is an interesting tale of FF8's lore and how the Sorceresses came to be:
 
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