Advent Children Cloud vs. Sephiroth [AC: Complete]

Alak

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***WARNING: THE FOLLOWING POST CONTAINS SPOILERS ABOUT THE MOVIE***


Who's a better fighter: Cloud or Sephiroth? People have been arguing over this for ages and there are still disagreements over this. In the original version of Advent Children, it's pretty obvious that Sephiroth is toying with Cloud until the latter surprises him with the new Omnislash V5. This led to many FF7 fans agreeing that Sephiroth is indeed the better warrior and he only won because Cloud caught him by surprise.

Now, with Complete, we see that Sephiroth is done playing around as he tries to go for the killing blow twice. Cloud stops the first attempt by grabbing the katana, preventing it from impaling his face before getting flung to the ground. Sephiroth then dives down for a second attempt before Cloud takes him head on and defeats him with Omnislash V6. With Complete retconning the original AC, does this new portrayal of the fight legitimize Cloud as a better fighter than Sephiroth? Was this still a fluke and Sephiroth still reigns as the better of the two? Perhaps they're equals?

I'm not asking who's more powerful overall since we all know Sephiroth could transform into Safer Sephiroth and outclass anyone in the FF7 universe. I'm just asking about sword skills since everytime these two have 1 vs. 1 encounter they tend to refrain from using materia.
 

~Griever~

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I never thought of Sephiroth as toying with Cloud. I always assumed during their battle they were testing each other out because at one point Cloud smiles as if he's impressed or pleased with Sephiroth's strength. Anyway, I'd probably say that Sephiroth is the better swordsman plus he has more experience than Cloud, but Cloud will always win one way or another whether it be by the element of surprise or by the help of friends etc.
 

8BITTS

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When Sephiroth lunged his sword into clouds chest AGAIN! and threw him up in the air and started kebabing him in the air i was like YES BAD ASS!
 

Alak

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When Sephiroth lunged his sword into clouds chest AGAIN! and threw him up in the air and started kebabing him in the air i was like YES BAD ASS!

lol not to mention he did that right after countering the original Omnislash! That scene alone warrants an R rating with all the blood that Cloud lost. In my opinion, I'd say it's a perfect display of how Sephiroth really fights if he chooses to go all out in a sword fight. On the other hand, I also feel like it gave Cloud's reputation a boost since he was able to overcome it. Sephiroth prepped for Omnislash? Cloud gives him a new one. It sort of shows Sephiroth's weakness to his own overconfidence and poor reaction to surprises (didn't even defend himself), and it shows that Cloud is able to literally break his own limits to achieve the previously impossible just to win.

It's because of the new scene that I feel that both combatants are on an even playing field. Sephiroth may have the upper hand the entire fight, but he'll never win because Cloud will just invent a new way to win. We see in this real life through sports and competition all the time. One side looks far superior on paper, yet, it always loses to a certain underdog team.
 

The Witch

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I think that Sephiroth is quite honestly the better fighter under the right circumstances. I know! I know! That sounds absurd coming from a HUGE Cloud fangirl but lemme explain.

In both versions you see Cloud getting his ass handed to him left and right, yes by the good graces of God Cloud was able to dodge a few of those major attacks--but for the most part Cloud was getting owned. Just ask yourself this, who had visibly more damage done to them? Cloud. Who had more attacks on them-self? Cloud. Who looked pretty much scratch-less? Sephiroth. Who appeared as if they weren't even trying? Sephiroth.

(and yes Nomura said he wanted to portray Sephiroth as if he wasn't trying during the fight--it was to contrast to Cloud appearing as if he was on the verge of dying--in other words, Sephiroth was supposed to come off as if he was toying with Cloud.)

However, Cloud is the type of hero that can't just whip out his Goku-power up every chance he gets. The human quality about Cloud is that to win a fight he really has to have his all involved, in other words, he has to be pushed to the very edge before he reaches his limit of power. Cloud was losing badly against Sephiroth until Sephiroth said something that triggered Cloud to unleash the power in himself that could defeat him.

In this case, Sephiroth's "what do you cherish most" line triggered Cloud to really put the hurt on the silver-haired baddie. And in ACC, it took speaking with Zack as well for Cloud to finally get that winning attack against Sephiroth. It's a combination of seeing people he cares about taken from him and knowing his friends are behind him that really gives Cloud the strength to win a fight.

And when Cloud has that strength, Sephiroth will always be the loser.

But very honestly, I think Cloud's ability to duel wield and jump around and endure tons of pain makes him a wayyy better fighter than Sephiroth on a grander scale.
 

Alak

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Very nice post, farfalla!

One thing that annoys me the most about Nomura is that he never really gives us a full fight when both Cloud and Sephiroth have their heads on right. Cloud's always has something holding him down. Sephiroth's arrogance and sadism is always holding him back. Don't get me wrong, Sephiroth still looks superior on paper. It's just that to me that last fight in Advent Children wasn't so much as Cloud trying to win as opposed to Cloud trying to survive. Granted, that could be attributed to Sephiroth being on the offensive for most of the scene.

PIS can be frustrating since Cloud doesn't actually go to full power until that pep talk with Zack. I mean, yeah it's realistic because the human mentality works that way, but this is a fight against Sephiroth. Cloud shouldn't need motivation to break loose and send Sephiroth running. As for Sephy himself, I doubt the guy will ever show us his full potential in a sword fight. He hasn't done so in Kingdom Hearts. He hasn't done so in Advent Children. He hasn't done so in Dissidia or Duodecim. He hasn't done so in Crisis Core. The guy is the most trollish villain in the Final Fantasy franchise. Sephiroth fights you, makes you work harder than you ever have in your entire life, laughs throughout the whole thing, smirks when he's defeated, and then comes back later with that "let's play!' attitude. :raye:

My ideal FF7 fight would be a ticked off Cloud vs. a ticked off Sephiroth. Zack gives his pep talk prior to the battle reminding Cloud that Sephy killed his mom, burned Nibelheim, and killed Aeris. Cloud then makes an insult about Sephiroth's mom. Incredibly epic fight ensues! None of that Rocky Balboa-formulaic crap.
 

taus fair

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***WARNING: THE FOLLOWING POST CONTAINS SPOILERS ABOUT THE MOVIE***


Who's a better fighter: Cloud or Sephiroth? People have been arguing over this for ages and there are still disagreements over this. In the original version of Advent Children, it's pretty obvious that Sephiroth is toying with Cloud until the latter surprises him with the new Omnislash V5. This led to many FF7 fans agreeing that Sephiroth is indeed the better warrior and he only won because Cloud caught him by surprise.

Now, with Complete, we see that Sephiroth is done playing around as he tries to go for the killing blow twice. Cloud stops the first attempt by grabbing the katana, preventing it from impaling his face before getting flung to the ground. Sephiroth then dives down for a second attempt before Cloud takes him head on and defeats him with Omnislash V6. With Complete retconning the original AC, does this new portrayal of the fight legitimize Cloud as a better fighter than Sephiroth? Was this still a fluke and Sephiroth still reigns as the better of the two? Perhaps they're equals?

I'm not asking who's more powerful overall since we all know Sephiroth could transform into Safer Sephiroth and outclass anyone in the FF7 universe. I'm just asking about sword skills since everytime these two have 1 vs. 1 encounter they tend to refrain from using materia.
nice topic..no seriously :O
the thing is...i m not really a cloud fan...but still...as we can see sephiroth was just toying with him...and then cloud strikes him down with surprise...in a real fight one who reigns is superior..that makes cloud a better fighter..and let's not forget what sephiroth said to zack "over-confidence will destroy you" and he didn't listen to himself...so i guess...cloud is better cz he came up with a .....what do they call it ? ace ? well..what the hell...you know what i mean
 

UrukGram

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Sephiroth is a better swordsman for sure.
If one gets technical a long sword is not easy to use and maneuver.
So his speed decreases..if he had a shorter sword he would be a beast.
Now Cloud has a better build(going of movie) and has more strength.
Both are equally good but since Cloud can probably tank on more attacks he has better durability.
So I say Cloud is a slightly better fighter...just slightly
 
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