Changing People

Leki

<3 L LAWLIET IS MINE. <3
Veteran
Joined
Dec 11, 2006
Messages
893
Location
Arkham Asylum, Gotham City
Gil
0
Okay, I've been thinking about this (Leki seems to be thinking alot this day, eh?), and have been having conversations with mah dad. Topic is changing people to make them suit you and your needs.

Such as, you seeing as their traits are bad, or not... quite your style, and try to get them to do something. Like being healthy. You get married, and you try to get your spouse to start jogging, eating healthy, et cetera, but they just don't care. Is it that important to push them to do such things?

There are actually alot of couples who say, 'Okay... I love this person . So I'm gonna get this person, even though they aren't ALL how I want them to be, and I'm gonna... train 'em. Get 'em to do what I want.' I see that alot, in many couples young and old. They use soooo much energy on 'training' their spouse and 'grooming' out bad habits.

I mean, if your gonna get with someone, they should love you for who you are, and vice versa... but if you still want to be with them, and they still have 'bad traits'.
 
If you love them you tend to become tolerant towards the bad points I've noticed. There is NEVER anyone who is perfect in that sense so its the only way to get anywhere with someone. Therefore its pretty pointless to really change someone.
 
No one is perfect, hell I have more bad habits than you can shake a stick at, but Im not willing to change my self for nobody. If some bloke can't accept me for who I am then he's not worth my time
My friends don't try to make me change and my mum has given up trying to tell me what to do
 
Yeah... sadly, I change myself for people, and it's not a very fullfilling thing, even though it can make people happier.

There is a problem, tho, if people are going down a bad path, to the point that more and more people are noticing.... should you just keep trying to help the person, or let them go on their own coarse, so you don't get sucked down with them?

It's quite a delimma, especially say, if your underage, and your parents have abit more control on over who you can hang out with. My parents give alot of lee-ways in my dealings, but jeez. Y-Y They can make things bloody difficult sometimes.
 
Depends how bad the person is in question. If you genuinely think they need help rather than actually 'changing' then yes, but if they have bad faults by they're own free will then no, Never mix with the wrong crowd etc....

Huge difference between bad habits and bad behavior, the latter should be avoided.
 
There is a problem, tho, if people are going down a bad path, to the point that more and more people are noticing.... should you just keep trying to help the person, or let them go on their own coarse, so you don't get sucked down with them?
.


You can't really help someone unless they are willing to b helped, sometimes you're just a helpless bystander watching as they spiral out of control. I guess you just need to be there to offer you support and to pick them up when they DO fall & realise they need help. 'Cause they do eventually.
Trying to make someone see the errors of their ways might just push them away. If their actions are dragging you down aswel though, it might just be best to give them abit of space for a while. Just as long as they like know you are there when they need you or something & see sense?
 
I've thought about this a lot before actually.

Personally I've strongly believe that, ok.. everyone knows that nobody is perfect, so why try and change people or yourself? If anything, it's these imperfections that make people interesting, and give them a bit of character. They are what separate us from everybody else. If everyone was the same and was healthy and nice and positive all the time, then the world would be a pretty boring place don't you think?

I first started noticing this at school a couple of years back. We were giving sheets in RE with lists of traits that we, and the school community, should all aspire to have. It was things like 'Generous, Helpful, Forgiving... etc.' and I couldn't help thinking of how primary school it was of them to treat us like that, like they were trying to turn us all into mini Jesuses (although I suppose that is the point of a catholic school..?). Anyway, I'm not trying to say that is a bad thing to encourage these things because obviously it is nice to be around pleasant people, but it seems to me that there are always some people who are general arsewipes and that is the way it is always going to be.


Anyway, kinda started rambling there, back to your original point. I agree with you though that it is quite mad for people who are meant to love each other to try and change each other. As you said, whatever happened to 'loving someone for who they are'? It's times like this where it becomes a case of 'I do love you, except maybe a couple of pounds lighter', and we all know that that will never work.


 
Phew, good views their Princess *tries to remember the last part but can't* :P

And I do agree on those sheets. Though, it's not gonna really work. I mean, sure, everyone will put the traits that they know the teachers wanna hear. But they don't really do anything about it anyways. I get that all the time in Homeroom, and Relationships class. Quiet sad... everyone just copies answers anyways, doens't put a lick of thought into it. Or outside the class.

For relationship stuff, you guys should watch the movie Juno. It's hilarious, and it's really sweet and sad. As Juno's dad basically says in the movie, you just gotta find someone who loves the good and the bad about you, and loves you enough to basically accept the flaws and to think you have 'sun shining out of your a**'. :P
 
into mini Jesuses (although I suppose that is the point of a catholic school..?).
except that jesus was jewish?
but i know what you mean, its a bit patronizing, to be given sheets and being told to write down qualities that would make a good person.

Topic is changing people to make them suit you and your needs.
that to me is manipulation. you might be doing it to make them a better person, but basically you are still manipulating them, and when they find that out, they will dislike you for it and revert to their original ways.

No one is perfect, hell I have more bad habits than you can shake a stick at, but Im not willing to change my self for nobody. If some bloke can't accept me for who I am then he's not worth my time
My friends don't try to make me change and my mum has given up trying to tell me what to do
isnt that a tad inflexible though? rejecting any notion of change, i mean it could be superficial, or it could be something else, if the change is something small, that doesnt really effect you, wouldnt it be better to accept it, or perhaps just to consider it?

i think if you want to change little things about a person, as long as they still feel that they are themselves, but anything more than that is wrong
 
Changing people when it comes to the physical...such as eating healthy, exercising, etcetera, isn't a bad thing.

When the 'training' becomes a bad thing is when, and this example is popular with girls, they find a 'bad guy with a good heart' and are convinced that they can change him into a good man. Those are always the relationships that are recipes for destruction.

I say that changes that have beneficial results, such as being more healthy, are fine, and sometimes even expected in long-term relationships. [It's easier to commit to something like improving health habits when you have someone to help you every step of the way.] But then it comes to changes in a person's actual personality traits...that's when it's just a bad, nuh-uh, not-gonna-happen idea.
 
Well it really just depends. People can change their ways if they are really dedicated. But is it really fair to ask them? I guess if they really did do something harmful to themselves or others then it would be ok or else they learn the hard way.

And I highly do not recommend getting into a relationship with someone thinking that you can change them ;)
 
My ex refused to change for me. He wouldnt stop smoking cigs or weed and he knew both affected my skin. But he didnt care.

The girl hes with now, he said hes stopped smoking cigs and weed for her, started wearing smarter clothes and losing weight for her. was of course hurt and upset that he'd do this for her and yet for 3 years, he refused to do that for me.

My gran said you cant change a man and sooner or later, my ex is going to crack because hes tired to make himself perfect for her. Personally I could care less what happens.

But the only thing Ive tired to do is lose weight in this relationship for myself. I dont alter my fashion or anything. I dont see the point. Take me as I am or not at all.
 
.

isnt that a tad inflexible though? rejecting any notion of change, i mean it could be superficial, or it could be something else, if the change is something small, that doesnt really effect you, wouldnt it be better to accept it, or perhaps just to consider it?

i think if you want to change little things about a person, as long as they still feel that they are themselves, but anything more than that is wrong

Yeah your probably right but I was in a really bad relationship for afew years and right at this moment in time the idea of changing myself even just a little bit, for someone else feels like control >_<

My ex refused to change for me. He wouldnt stop smoking cigs or weed and he knew both affected my skin. But he didnt care.

The girl hes with now, he said hes stopped smoking cigs and weed for her, started wearing smarter clothes and losing weight for her. was of course hurt and upset that he'd do this for her and yet for 3 years, he refused to do that for me..

I wanted my ex to quit that too although he never did. Not sure if he has now though, and tbh honest I dont care either. It affected my skin too although I still battle away with cigarettes >_<

I saw him recently though and he told me he missed me and that his current GF spends all his money & never lets him out

Funny how the tables turn >_>
 
Last edited:
Yeah your probably right but I was in a really bad relationship for afew years and right at this moment in time the idea of changing myself even just a little bit, for someone else feels like control >_<
I can completely understand that, especially after years of such. I've been through similiar, tho not with a boyfriend. It's kinda like a panick if you realize your heading back down that path, even if it wasn't as bad, it's still control.

And yeah... people really do seem to fight it the more you try to change them. I remember a story my dad told me, that had been told to him by his friend's son. The son's father had been married to his wife for many years, and always wanted to spend as many happy years with her as he could. But she had bad health habits, liking overeating, not exercising. Well, he tried to change her for over 20 years, and she fought the whole way against it. Well, his son said something to him, and he realized, "Yano... this isn't working. I should love her for who she is." And so he stopped. Soon after, after he let up, she started exercising and eating healthy.

Guess it really does help to let up on people. :P
 
You guys' questions and answers are ones that bounce around in my head on a daily basis.

The only way it actually is the appropriate thing to say is if you say it straight up

*Not to offend but everyone uses the "The world would be a boring place* Well right now the world is a effed up place why does boring even matter* sry just a little tidbit I always throw in everytime I hear it.

Gotta tell them how you feel
things HAVE to be pointed out sooner or later if your fat and in danger of dying yeah I am going to tell it to your face you have to stop eating so much and you need to excersice otherwise your gonna die.

Same with smoking ok so if you keep smoking in my face like that I'm not gonna talk to you anymore.

Instead of deciding how to tell ppl you just tell them your thoughts on it.

some call it manipulation others call it the right choice I just call it being honest and saying what you need to say. Whether they want to hear it or not. Your not supposed to cater to anyone's need, the minute you tell them, you do. This is why relationships are valued so heavily.

Why have a friend that wants you to lie to them? If I was being a bitch to everyone I knew, oh by all means pls tell me. It's called constructive critisism if you personally want them to change a HABIT then I can say we are allowed to ask that they change a HABIT if you want to change the person entirely you gotta look at yourself and change what problems you have first.

We all have bad habits. When someone asks us to change them mostly we go to the defensive. Whether or not ppl actually will listen is on them. We are allowed as friends to ask our friends or to tell them what we think and vica versa

If they are not willing to listen to their friends then that's not right. *Don't get me confused I said listen not change for your friend*

whether ppl want to hear it or not you make a choice to tell someone it's at least nice to hear it out and take the reasons they could/would tell you into consideration. Tehn if they decide not to do it you go from their if it's a major problem I say push until they make a choice and tell you what they think if you don't agree and believe they are wrong...

let them make their mistakes even if it's life threatening I mean some ppl really don't care to live or die and it's their choice no matter how much it hurts or w/e leave em be.

*Sry I am not very good with punctuations or spelling like at all.*
 
I don't think it's so much about wether we are honest wih our friends/partners or whatever, it's more wether you would expect them to change for you or you for them

Im pretty sure the majority of us tell our friends if they look like or are behaving like twats or whatever, I know I do & my mates with me. But as much as someone might piss me off I would never expect them to change for me, at the end of the day I love them for what they are, even their bad points as infuriating as those bad points can be at times >_<

Relationshipwise, yeah I tell them how I feel & if I don't like something they know about it. They generally won't change their behaviour though, I gave up trying to get an ex or 2 to change. I just damn well make sure they know they were pissing me off

If i totally missed the point there, sorry, it's late lol
 
I try to stay neutral to people I'm not familiar with, but I let a bit of my true self come out to people I know ;)
 
I don't think it's so much about wether we are honest wih our friends/partners or whatever, it's more wether you would expect them to change for you or you for them

Im pretty sure the majority of us tell our friends if they look like or are behaving like twats or whatever, I know I do & my mates with me. But as much as someone might piss me off I would never expect them to change for me, at the end of the day I love them for what they are, even their bad points as infuriating as those bad points can be at times >_<

Relationshipwise, yeah I tell them how I feel & if I don't like something they know about it. They generally won't change their behaviour though, I gave up trying to get an ex or 2 to change. I just damn well make sure they know they were pissing me off

If i totally missed the point there, sorry, it's late lol

Nah you didn't really miss the point. it's just that I personally believe ppl should take in account what others say and actually take a look at themselves
i do it everytime I get told something. At the same time though I was TAUGHT to do that... From as many things ppl still do it makes me think what I was taught was actually one of the things parents don't teach >.>
 
Nah you didn't really miss the point. it's just that I personally believe ppl should take in account what others say
then you may become an amalgamation of other people's observations of you, which means that you would no longer be yourself, i agree that you should be willing to change some things about yourself, but by changing every time someone tells you to is a little superficial
 
then you may become an amalgamation of other people's observations of you, which means that you would no longer be yourself, i agree that you should be willing to change some things about yourself, but by changing every time someone tells you to is a little superficial

Yeah, but this is why I said you should look at yourself first. Individuality is important, but problems that you may have are probably better to be dealt with.

I wouldn't change myself everytime only if I believed that to be true you know facts. I'd look into whatever it was and think about what other ppl's reactions of whatever it was I did/doing and you know, go from there.

I believe your right though changing everytime isn't what I meant though. Just taking a look into it every now and again :P
 
Back
Top