Queen Brahne

Was Queen Brahne evil?

  • Yes

    Votes: 14 58.3%
  • No

    Votes: 10 41.7%

  • Total voters
    24
Right, she had a developed greed. And you are very right with that... but that's not the topic at hand. The topic is whether she was just greedy or whether she was actually evil completely.

The only argument I would buy at this point was the Zidane/Kuja "under different circumstances we could have been capable of the same things" discussion. That if the circumstances were different, she would have just been a regular greedy person. But because of her circumstances she was driven to be more than just greedy. She became murderous as well. No matter what inflated her greed, it would not have necessarily made her murderous. A lot of people are extremely greedy and power hungry in this world... but they don't murder for it. That was her that did it, not matter how much her bad traits were exacerbated.
 
...


Essentially being the leader of the Alexandrian army, she was obliged to feel no hesitation when delivering the order to kill. This is another trait we can safely assume was elaborated upon by the Mist. In all honesty, I see no difference between ordering an army to kill all hostile warriors who oppose her, and summoning an Eidolon to essentially do the same thing, but on a wider scale. Every 'poor' trait of the victim was bloated above her once-stronger side, rendering her a completely different person. And if completely different, she isn't going to be a friendly little Hobbit, is she?

My arguments are justifying why she isn't evil. So they're entirely relevant to "the topic at hand."
 
I'm not sure at this point if you're being overly sympathetic or just argumentative but I can promise you that if anyone you knew was ever killed in such a horrendous (and more realistic) fashion that you would not distribute your forgiveness this much.

And even if her "bloated traits" transformed her into someone "completely different", she still holds the qualities that made her a good person originally. Those positive traits still exist. And no matter how much any real life person loses their way due to ambition or greed, under any circumstances, their positive traits are always present... even if dormant. I guess my point is that even if beforehand if her positive traits were mountainous and her greed was pebble-size, her mountainous positive traits never disappeared. And if those traits did not rise to the occassion when she needed them to, then she is indeed evil. We're all saints when there is no temptation. It is only when temptation presents itself, no matter how unnaturally driven (drugs, etc), those positive traits are still what need to overcome that. Zidane and the rest were in the mist. Even towards the end of the game Zidane starts to show very "Kuja-esque" qualities... but his goodness towers so far over his bad qualities. He is good overall so he overcame his temptation. She did not, so she is evil.
 
I'm not sure at this point if you're being overly sympathetic or just argumentative but I can promise you that if anyone you knew was ever killed in such a horrendous (and more realistic) fashion that you would not distribute your forgiveness this much.
I'm not saying I forgive her for what she's done; I'm saying, to an extent, she can be excused. Still, that doesn't mean to say I'd appreciate her killing anyone I know.

And even if her "bloated traits" transformed her into someone "completely different", she still holds the qualities that made her a good person originally.
As stated before, the Mist feeds off the lesser qualities. Brahne had been suffering from the Mist for a considerable amount of time, so considering that as a factor, I doubt she'd hold anything back to get what she wanted.

Also, if a person is "completely" different, how did you decide that... their previous qualities remain? That's just... completely defying the point.


I guess my point is that even if beforehand if her positive traits were mountainous and her greed was pebble-size, her mountainous positive traits never disappeared.
We don't know whether Brahne was removed entirely of her past self, or whether her 'nicer' traits were indeed, as you say, "dormant." However, she does revert to her past self once she is on the brink of death after Bahamut's attack (which I'm surprised she survived, actually), so perhaps she was dormant. However, it's evident that she was under a lock an' key, otherwise remorse would typically be shown, or even reluctance at the least.

And if those traits did not rise to the occassion when she needed them to, then she is indeed evil.
If she had no control over her new-found vulgarities, how could 'she' be defined as evil?

We're all saints when there is no temptation. It is only when temptation presents itself, no matter how unnaturally driven (drugs, etc), those positive traits are still what need to overcome that.
In the case of Brahne, evidently not.



I'm not saying she was never cruel or harsh in her original state of mind, but that doesn't mean to say she was infinitely horrid either. I highly doubt she was a saint, considering how she was so utterly controlled by the Mist's influence over her negativity, but on the other hand, she couldn't be considered a demon.
 
I don't think that her husband kept her in line...
I think she was just full of grief that her "real" daughter had died, along with her husband...
Remember that before she dies, she appoligizes to garnet and tells her that she loves her.
 
"Power Corrupts" is a big theme in the Final Fantasy series, I think Brahne was just an example of that theme. When you have that much power under your control it becomes almost an obsession to acquire more, I personally think she just didn't realize what she was doing.
 
Actually he said he found corruption in her and exploited it. He said he needed someone to kill and wreak havoc on the world and he found that greed in her.
 
I don't think that you can answer the question with a blunt yes or no answer. She was and she wasn't strictly for the reasons that have already been brought up. She was evil because she killed many innocent people and displayed no affection for anyone during the course of the game. She destroyed kingdoms and slaughterd countless innocents and that makes her extremely evil. However, taking into consideration that she was once a nice person, it seems that she was a really kind-hearted person. I forgot the last words she said to Garnet before she died in her arms but I'm sure if I remember properly they were very heart-felt (if I'm not mistaken). In conclusion, I guess she was in matter of fact evil, because she did allow the greed to overcome her meaning that deep down there was a darkness that was just waiting to be unleashed. She was able to be manipulated by Kuja because she was vulnerable to greed and power. But then hasn't everyone got a darkness within them, just waiting to be unleashed. Surely with enough of a push we all could all change. Brahne was weak and so she couldn't show restraint. So I guess she was evil but was a good person at heart, if that makes sense.
 
If Brahne wasn't responsible for her actions then neither was Kuja responsible for his. Kuja was merely doing what he was created to do, as well as acting in fear and desperation because he feared losing his soul once his purpose was fulfilled. You can't make exceptions for one and not for the other. If Kuja was evil, doing what he did then so was Brahne. If Brahne was only doing what she was being manipulated to do then you have to apply that to Kuja as well since he too was being forced to do what he did.
 
I don't think anyone who was inherently good would allow themselves to become what she became. I think her husband probably kept her in check but people don't just attack nations they have been allys with for no reasons under the whim of a suave talking monkey. The trait I associate with her is greed, which is inherently evil it seems.
 
It's actually a very deep philosophical question!

In the sense of deep platonic moral values (that often exist for the sake of storytelling), no she wasn't.
If it was a real world example? Yes, I'd say she was evil. She allowed her own weaknesses to destroy everything good about her and killed thousands (maybe millions?) in the process.
I'm not a believer in any kind of metaphysical concept of good and evil. I think good and evil are just labels we put on human behaviour. Most people we call evil were in some way just
victims of unlucky situations. Of all the kinds of people who commit terrible acts, she had a lot more freedom to avoid her actions than most people do.
 
Back
Top