Standardization of Generations

Shu

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There are many facets to the words, "Standards", and I wanted to put this out there in the Costa Del Sol, due to recent issues I've ran across in life. What are some of the ones you've noticed recently?

In life there are many things similar, but when are standards a must in life? I found myself questioning why subsets of society are being standardized based on what society is pre-programmed to do.

Here's some Examples:

1) Go to High School
2) Date
3) Go to College for your Bachelors and Date
4) Go to Work
5) Get Married
5) Go back to College for you Masters
6) Go back to work
7) Get Divorced / Get on Medication / Have Kids

1) Go to High School
2) Date
3) Go to Military
4) Come back and work a blue collared job
5) Marry Young
6) Have Kids
7) Go to college
8) Work late to establish a goal

1) Go to High School
2) Go to College for Bachelors
3) Go to College for Masters
4) Go to College for Law/Med/Pharm
5) Date
6) Become completely independent

This might be subjective to your location. Though your location might be a minority of the society as opposed to the Majority. I find the most interesting people I have came across have had a little bit of all of it, but others are all about mixing up the standards. Though most of the times they are not narrow minded to which path you choose in life.

I know obviously if you are having a kid the meta changes quite a bit. You want your child to grow up in a good community with other kids. You also want your kid to be slightly privileged, but not self entitled like many of the millennials today. Though I also believe standards in society are hard to set. People though tend to identify closer to those who have assimilated with their same society.

Tell me some of them that you've seen.. Even as far as high school and the norms and abnormal society niches.
 
That's a little funny Shu, just the other day on the way to work I was listening to a topic on the radio dealing with just this. Instead however, they were talking about how the once clear cut standards and paths that people would have had to follow, are now almost completely obscure for the present generation. They went on to discuss, that since opportunities have become so plentiful, diverse and with many back doors available to people, we are almost paralysed with choice and the indecision that brings. Also the financial side of things are making these standards a little less standard; whereas once before people would have gone to school, got steady job, got spouse and bought home to have kids, now this option is not exactly feasible since housing prices are (pardon the pun) through the roof. The steady job is also coming a thing of the past with zero hour contracts increasing in popularity with employers. Many people don't go to college because there are firms ready and willing to take on interns while many more do go to college and practically fossilise in there. More and more the trend of switching careers is becoming apparent, which is turning the common standard lifestyle out to pasture.

Admittedly, I don't know a single person IRL who went about their life in the "standard" way. The way I figure it, people have become a little directionless and are at a bit of a loss; but it can be pretty fun making it up as you go along! That's just my viewpoint though and maybe it is a unique situation in McGeeLand, certainly the standards you listed were amusingly familiar in some ways, particularly the "dating" bit.
 
This is actually an interesting topic. Even though many western countries hate to say it, I feel we live in a pseudo-caste system. Certain expectations are expected from one subset that are not expected from the other. Specific types of living are expected from one subset compared to another.

Now, from one point of view- the middle class view- the standard I went through is kinda what's expected. Go through school, then college/uni, optional gap year, then get a "grown up job" (apparently minimum wage isn't the minimum you're supposed to be able to live on, it's for teenagers who want pocketmoney don'cha know)?

It works for some, but when moment you step out of line- you don't get the points in your Leaving Cert, you dropout/fail out of college, you don't go on to use your degree- you won't necessarily be attacked. You'll get excuses like "they're finding themselves, they just need to grow up a bit". You get to commit crimes and, rather than be referred to as a "rapist", you get to be called "former Stanford swimmer", you get to claim "afluenza" as your defense in your court case. You get the chance to essentially mess up and recover. You're expected to have nice clothes.

However, I'm not middle class. I've always been firmly situated as a working class guy, and the standard in which people conduct themselves is quite different. While college has become a lot more available for disadvantaged people, not as many working class people get through it. If you do well in academics to push you up, you're brought down hard by either people who choose to pick on you because of it, or by horrid support systems in schools that just cannot afford it. You get to college, and you'll probably find it a struggle to afford your books, fees and so much others. You have nice clothes, people think "how did they pay for that"?

In Ireland, student grants help those who are in dire straits(like myself and my sister), but for those in the " upper working class", it doesn't support them. You get through college and get your "proper job", and you will get feedback about where you're from. It won't be intense, maybe the slightest aspect of comments and wrong impressions. If you commit crimes, it's expected. You "don't know any better". If you're in America and you happen to be both poor and black, you're instantly a "thug" if you happen to commit a crime.

The standards we expect, in this generation, from our young drastically differ depending on your economic bracket or caste. For every breakout person, you have two more who stay within what society expects of that caste.

Of course, the standards are gradually changing. You don't go into an industry and commit your life to MicroApple anymore. This is good. It means we scale up Maslow's hierarchy so much faster, but which aspects of society CAN make usage of these shifting standards?
 
As a drop out myself I can safely say that I certainly didn't get the "they're finding themselves, they just need to grow up a bit" excuse. I was told in no uncertain terms that I "had better have a plan missy!...."; which is fair enough. :lew:

In some ways I did see a certain type of person treat me a certain way as I went about implementing this "great life dream". But mostly I was surprised at how many didn't pass any judgement and treated my applications as fairly as anyone elses'! Mention that you didn't get your leaving and people might have assumed once upon a time, that you were stupid, underachieving or if you're female, you've just got to be a teen mother (as if there's anything wrong with that)! So, yes, a particular standard might still be assumed; however, so many individuals are trashing those "standards" these days. Early school leaver isn't synonymous with "Dead End Life", "No-Hoper" or "Bum" anymore, and it isn't excused away with "they're finding themselves" either. With many different options and freedoms, comes different routes and ideas of who we are and how we work together in a society.

You asked Paddy McGee, which aspects of society can make use of the shift in these standards? I would say from my experience, that there is no set aspect, only individuals with gumption enough to kick it in the balls. Particularly in the Western World we have become more open minded and the opportunities are there for people to put that middle finger in the air and say "Hells no I won't go!". The wonderful thing is, we don't actually have to listen to norms anymore; we're not back in the age where people had to cling to their communities to live and get by.

Yes people still have assumed expectations of each other, but the standard path people take in life is definitely wider than one would expect, and people are aware of this. In the end, I think society (particularly in Ireland) does respect the individual as long as they show themselves to be capable and that they can take care of themselves. As the trite adage goes, the destinations aren't the spice of life, it's the journey that makes the good yarn!


...so yeah, I actually don't see much of this pre-programming. There are many people that "make it" who go about it through some pretty out there methods. Can hardly accuse those YouTubers of using standard methods, in all fairness! :wacky:
 
You make a good point, I was using the "find themselves" excuse a bit too flippantly Galadín . :lew:

There may be people going their own route and "trashing the standards", this is brilliant, but I personally feel that people who have a stable support system- be it from a stable family, class or whatnot- have a better chance at going against the standard. That's not to say people who don't fit those brackets can't do their own thing; it's just there's much more risk to do so.

You mention "only individuals with gumption enough to kick it in the balls", I take this as referring to hard work... But hard work = success on your life's road is a fallacy. I've seen people who work hard day in, day out and get nowhere. I've seen people who coast through get so far. It's definitely more likely you're going to succeed with hard work, but it's certainly not the only variable in the equation.

There's living your life in an unstandardised way, and there's doing so and succeeding. You use Youtubers as an example. How many successes are on Youtube? How many channels are there that haven't caught on or succeeded? Put the two on a bar chart, and the former will be tiny compared to the latter (This then leads us down the rabbit hole to different semantic arguments as to how you do or do not define success. I'm going to define success as "being able to monetarily support yourself in your chosen profession or way of life ", just for ease).

Mark Zuckerberg dropped out of College, created Facebook and he succeeded... How many other people tried to do the same, but failed and went back to the standard? Quite a few. More than quite a few.

Innovators change the world, but the standard society brings in mainstreams and tones down these changes for everyone. We're always going to have those who follow the standards set by society and those who don't. I feel that people who go outside the standards and succeed are accepted, but those who go outside the standards and fail are not accepted as much. It's this fear of failure and humbling that comes with trying and failing that I feel programs or guides the majority of people to stay within their brackets and standards. Not everyone is a trailblazer. Standards like Shu suggested give some people a sense of order and safety.
 
Here is the American fallacy. Sorry guys, who are from America, but it sounds easy, but it's not.

You wake up one day, completely unaware that now you are about to embark on the rest of your life (college then work). You take the first few semesters and you start to question things. Are the teachers there to teach or there to get paid? When you get the job, is your CEO there to get paid or there to lead a company into the next generation?

I have seen the both sides. You get out of grade school, you make pretty good grades right? You then go to college, and you are like.. "wait the teachers are there to write the answers on the board and then sit down, or they writing the problem but do not apply the answer that in hopes you read the last night's chapter."

To me neither is teaching, it's just a short cut for a template. To me teaching is figuring something out that a school doesn't teach and applying it. Sorry but when you get your PHD you have to do a paper which only 1-40 people are approved to get their PHD and it has to appeal to your apartment's board. If afterwards you get your PHD and then you teach the same stuff a freshman level class is taught, what the hell are you teaching anyway?

I would rather learn from a college drop out that actually applied themselves in their trade. I would rather learn from someone who said, "Oh well, I'll forever be single, at least I'll be a scholar and try to keep evolving what I learned when I was 22-25. Then I will make it my craft and try to go outside the box and be some singular entity that tried to brave the system."

Same goes for anything really, College is one application in life.

Let's talk as if another situation broke out. Economy runs dry and there are many people who are academics that now can not apply their trade. Now the militant folks are there and can apply their trade. Scary though I know, but let's think about realism here. You think that all of life is book smart, when all the sudden things turn to who is the strongest runs things instead of who is "intelligent". What in life have you learned to actually combat this?

If the world holds on to either side, what is the society norm? You are taught history. Bad things happened and things will repeat themselves. So what side do you pick? I'm asking you to think outside the box, but not in a debate style, but in a way that makes you question .. "Is this the way human's were meant to function is on one singular standard path? or are all meant to branch out then come back to the same singular path?"

Last thing is science. Medicine and Space. Can one get to either without an approach of academia? By the time you get through college for Med school you paid $200,000.00 to $300,000.00. Well what path did you take? Cardiology? Neuro/Heart/ENT Surgeon? In America you go to school for one thing, while in Europe (especially East Europe) you train for all thing and then you choose finally which path.

Standards all around mind you. Monetizing practices is only normal. You get paid to have a steady hand for 20 minutes - 3 hours on a human body than a car.

So what other standards have you seen that are.. a little contradictory.
 
That standardization has never been a reality - more myth then reality. It's what advertisement, entertainment and the media as well as a few other sources tell us that we’re suppose to follow and many of us buy into it. Some people can and do follow that utopia standard, but most don't or can't. If you look back over the eras not a whole lot of people could follow that standard from beginning to end. Media just tries to make us think they did. Fact is we all follow our own set of standards even if we don’t realize it. (Sorry if this sounds like a history lesson but breaking it down into eras seemed the best way to present my point.)

1930’s - My parents grew up in the depression era. My mom's parents were both Polish immigrants. My mom was the third of 4 kids, and lost her father at about 16 or 17. Her mother expected her to quit school and go to work lying about her age because she was under age and that’s the only way she could get a job. There were excuses why her older brother and sister couldn't possibly be expected to help and little sis, well she was too young even when she was old enough and forget allowing my mom to keep any of the wages she earned. She might get maybe 50 cents or a quarter. Then came marriage, not for love, but to get out of the house and out of the circumstances that she was in, supporting her husband while he went to school to be a plumber for a few years, adopting a child because she couldn't have one of her own. This was far from that standard and her kind of story was more the norm. during that era.

1940’s - Again that standard went out the window with World War II. The change in demographics with the men in the war and the women taking over many of the jobs that were standard men's jobs.

1950’s - Then came the Korean War that disrupted the standard for many families when men, that were barely men once again went to war. I think the 50’s (and the early part of the 60’s) came the closest to that standard despite their problems.

1060’s - The families that met that standard were the older married couples and there families that came from the higher income brackets. Plus the short years that President Kennedy was in office and the later term coined “Camelot Era” gave the illusion of this perfect standard. A good portion of the younger population were as far from that standard as they could get. You know we think of the Vietnam War, which at the beginning it was not considered a war, as starting in the 60’s but it actually started 1955. The reason we think of it being in the 60’s is because we tripled the number of men (who we kidding most were barely 18) we were sending to fight that war and things escalated. Because of all the turmoil the counterculture, Civil Rights, war and many other movements that started in that era that we don’t even think of as starting in that era - all of this turned a good portion of that standard on it’s ear. People who fell into that standard were the minority.

1970’s we drifted back to a standard to a certain extent but not as much as the media would leave us to believe.

The rest of the eras are just more of the same. I think you get the point.

My personal pattern varied quite a bit I think.


  1. High school
  2. Utterly useless college degree
  3. Complete independence after last living parent died
  4. Minimum wage job
  5. Higher wage job neither of which related in any way to my college degree
  6. Whacked out relationship
  7. Purchase house
  8. Medical retirement
  9. Foreclosure
  10. More of #6
  11. Final home purchase
  12. Independence once again

There’s a lot missing from what became my norm compared to your list. Actually one glaringly missing item (I’ll let you figure out what’s missing).

I call 2) Utterly useless degree because I started in Computers/accounting and had decided to help my mom fulfill her life long dream to go back to school so I gave up mine. I switched schools and majors because my major would be too hard for her and she wanted us to take classes together. We did, graduated Summa Cum Laude together. The degree was Human Services/Mental Health. For a shy introvert that was a nightmare but 3 year later I lost her so maybe it was worth it. 6) Whacked out relationship means (the simplistic version) he was always afraid people would think I was his girlfriend and I put up with oodles of crap that no one else would have.

And what you said about the teachers, some are genuinely there to teach you but many are there just for the paycheck. I had one teacher that used to schedule his doctor’s appointments during my class so he’d come in say I got to go see you next week and leave every week. Then the college assigned a sub that was no better. I worked for a professor who used to ask ME what he was doing in class. I kept up with his 8 or 10 classes and my classes as well. All his paperwork and everything. If I got sick I actually had to plan for it and have all his stuff laid out ahead of time or I would spend 3 - 4 hours on the phone directing him to where the papers he was looking for were in one of the 9 file drawers that he refused to learn the order of and I has memorized. And by the way, he was absolutely crazy. So much so, I think he almost gave one student a literal heart attack when he suddenly jumped up on the desk (which he did quite frequently) and then suddenly jumped down right in front of her. I think that was the day he landed in the trash can and skinned his whole shin from knee to ankle.

My better job was a custodian with the post office. Man, the stories I can tell about that place. There was a book out called “The Peter Principal” that stated that people get promoted to their level of INCOMPETENCY. The post office was a perfect example. I actually had a situation where I actually told my manager in front of the head of my department referring to the said head of my department “Am I not talking English or is he that stupid”. I was done talking to the department head. The look on the other managers faces and some of my co-workers were priceless but it was either that or deck him. Later, there were days that I thought I should have decked him. I had told him 3 times what my friend’s doctor’s report said and 3 times he insisted on a criteria not only opposite but impossible. After 9 years I understood very well why we have the term “going postal”. That place was lunacy.
 
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