Why i will not be buying FFXV

Razberry Knight

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as you all know, i have had a sour taste for Final Fantasy XV for a while....but everything about FFXV recently has felt wrong. The first thing i will mention is DLC. i dont believe any numbered game should have DLC in order to be complete, so by that, i will not buy it immediately. I can't stand DLC and i rather buy the complete version (which you know they will). Second, i do not believe in the direction FFXV has been going.


Second, is the transition between a spin-off to main numbered game. Being a main-numbered game puts a lot of expectations of what a main numbered game should have. When the initial trailer came in about switching between characters, that showed promise of an attempt to move closer to numbered game but since now its incredibly focused on a single player (regardless of the mini co-op events). But they stopped showing us that. Also magic and summons are being lowered, and less to cling onto what makes a main numbered game. Which make me feel like this is only "half" of a numbered game. These things really get to me. If they need to put DLC to make it a full numbered game, i rather wait for a complete version to come out.

Second: redesign changes have made more extreme changes. I'm all for redesigns, and even name changes, or even replacing a character....but only if the new design is BETTER. let me go with the King/Noctis's father. The redesign was meant to have a special meaning to add as an addition, but it doesn't appear like Tabata realized what he was sacrificing instead, which was the mafia look. Now he looks like a very typical king. Wearing robes, yet his divinity doesn't stop him from carrying his child (which i find a little off in the dawn trailer).

Now the one i hate the most: Stella to Luna. Honestly, Luna sounds better fitting name than Stella. Although both are really anime-esque names, Luna just has a more FF feel. And honestly, i can understand if they truly do need to make a completely different character (especially to change the entire story). However, Luna doesn't look like a completely original character, she looks like an empty shell of what Stella was going to be all along. Keep in mind Stella had defining facial features and facial expressions. When i see Luna in every scene, even in her "stern" face. She looked fake, and i'm honestly tryng to give her a chance here (or waiting for SE to show me something worth keeping interest). Her brushing off a gun and give a face to what she foresaw did not give me enough defining moments.

And the Stella/Luna fiasco tells me so much more about the situation than ever before...

When we received the new trailer and its announcement of Final Fantasy XV, the trailer showed Luna. This was still with Tetsuya Nomura in charge and still calling it his project (apparently) and suddenly revealed this was inspired as a friends traveling together, it didn't take too long to reveal it was moving toward new director. In which Tabata was mostly talking about game mechanics and what could and couldn't work. But then he suddenly claims that Luna wasn't working with his new vision and had to go in replacing Stella (when we already saw Luna in the trailer). We continued to see more, until suddenly on a whim (yes, a whim) they change Noctis father design. he reveals little by little on Luna, on what he should've given us a very direct response from the start about Luna. Also, shouldn't have given her a soft-vanilla design. Luna's design doesn't tell me "Stronger than Stella" it shows as "weaker".

What color are her eyes? i can't tell very well, i would have to pay attention to the trailer or see it again. (something i normally dont need to do for interesting characters). her slightly tan, platinum blonde

I dont believe the whole road trip design was part of the original concept....yes, i believe some of it may have been true to use the car as main form of transportation, but not as one of the main theme. That would've been confirmed a long time ago. Second, Tabata was secretly in charge of the game back when they decided to make it into FF15 (not reveal it to public), but was too busy on Type-0 to give it any real attention up until now. Which is why what feels sudden to us, no one in SE are bashing an eye lid.

There was a time when Nomura said he wanted to talk about Versus 13 at the time but couldn't. this was probably a sign of NOmura wanting to let us know ahead of time to prepare for changes. (then again, the decision to make sch a seen was pre-rendered, suddenly was scrapped not too far off).


TL;DR - The timing for FF15 is absolutely terrible. I can't trust its story at all until i see it for myself, and even then i'm still skeptical on lack of magic. Nothing sounds like it was a well thought out decision.

NOTE: a lot of fans are trying to see these changes as what the head of SE are seeking to make these changes, for global appeal. I doubt that. Versus 13 already had a global appeal, moving it to main name only means giving it more to make it a main game and considering the change seems more as a business need than envisioning a game's true vision. I can't in good consciou sbelieve that Final Fantasy XV is the true and refined vision, it will always be half and half.
 
I think we have to accept that Final Fantasy XV is not Final Fantasy XIII Versus... the game has gone under huge transfomrations over the years ( & Let us not understate 'YEARS'). I for one loved the demo though, while of course it is difficult to tell how the main gameplay struxcture will flow. If I am correct in understanding that the Behemoth quest we played was a demonstration of a side-quest then I think we're in store for a wonderful game. Note how dynamic the quest was. It wasnt' just the typical Monster Hunt sidequest from XII or XIII (Got to location A, Beat monster B, gain reward C). The game took you through objectives which were dynamic to the normal gameplay structure, like following the beast in to it's lair and the plotting a plan to weaken it - All before the major conftrontation. If the game can create unique and varied events experiences liek that for all it's sidequests then I think it is going to be brilliant.

DLC is a b&^%$, can't argue with that. I have the same mentality with Fallout 4 this year. Bethesda released DLC Editions of all their titles within 6 months to a year beyond the original release... so there is no way I will be buying the bare bones edition. With Final Fantasy, I don't think they'ev been so rough. XIII-2's DLC was disheartening, them monsters should have just been in the colosuem much like VI, VII & X before it. Though I did buy them all on sale dirt cheap a year later, I still mised out on it on my original playthrough. Lighting Returns was very decent with DLC, it was all just bonus weapons and costumes (Fan Service for a better term) so I avoided that fine.

I'm optimistic for XV. I've enjoyed the trailers i've seen even sinc the relabel from XIIIv to XV & The emo statisfied my gaemplay curiosity. I just hope the story and sense of adventure is what I have been longing for.
 
You bring up some good points, and I can agree with some of them.

I think it is unfortunate that it seems that we will only get to directly control Noctis. To have other party members who cannot be controlled (and can't be swapped in or rotated like in FFXIII) is unusual for a Final Fantasy. It'll be odd to have only one playable character despite there being a cast of characters who could be controlled. I guess that's the story they want to tell. They want us to connect with Noctis very intimately, and perhaps forcing us to be him all of the time was thought to be the only way that this could be achieved.

I think much of the fan frustration regarding the changes in character design and the plot are an unfortunate side-effect of them taunting us with details (however few) of this game so early on.

If we had no knowledge of the creative development background regarding Stella then more people may be embracing Luna, or simply accepting that she will be the main female. More people may be speculating over her role and, perhaps, being kinder to her character design. However, until recently expectant fans have been quite fond of the scrapped character named Stella, who to many happened to have a 'cuter', youthful face, and smiled, and had a pretty dress. She was quite the fighter too. Now that people see Luna, a character who is attractive in her own way (but in more of a mysterious 'ice queen' sort of way), some people feel that the warmth of the flame they held for Stella in their hearts has been extinguished, and their heavy hearts are now encased by ice as can no longer feel for the character. People are not sure what to make of her, but they have also had less time to think about her. People had far too long to think about Stella. We shouldn't really have even known of Stella's existence. That was Square-Enix's mistake.

Similarly, I guess more people would be less disappointed with King Regis taking fashion tips from Ned Stark if this was the first time that they had been introduced to the character. Instead, we had the mafia / Yakuza boss aesthetic introduced to us first, and people developed their anticipations around that.

Although fans (and myself to an extent) have constantly complained about the lack of information about this game over the many years since it has been in development, we still know far too much about the development history of this game. They wowed us nearly 10 years ago with the Versus XIII concept, and a generation has grown up pining for a game which they never received. It is now nearly here, but in a completely different form, and we've had the fairly odd and unpleasant experience of being teased with for nearly a decade.
 
as you all know, i have had a sour taste for Final Fantasy XV for a while....but everything about FFXV recently has felt wrong. The first thing i will mention is DLC. i dont believe any numbered game should have DLC in order to be complete, so by that, i will not buy it immediately. I can't stand DLC and i rather buy the complete version (which you know they will). Second, i do not believe in the direction FFXV has been going.


Second, is the transition between a spin-off to main numbered game. Being a main-numbered game puts a lot of expectations of what a main numbered game should have. When the initial trailer came in about switching between characters, that showed promise of an attempt to move closer to numbered game but since now its incredibly focused on a single player (regardless of the mini co-op events). But they stopped showing us that. Also magic and summons are being lowered, and less to cling onto what makes a main numbered game. Which make me feel like this is only "half" of a numbered game. These things really get to me. If they need to put DLC to make it a full numbered game, i rather wait for a complete version to come out.

Second: redesign changes have made more extreme changes. I'm all for redesigns, and even name changes, or even replacing a character....but only if the new design is BETTER. let me go with the King/Noctis's father. The redesign was meant to have a special meaning to add as an addition, but it doesn't appear like Tabata realized what he was sacrificing instead, which was the mafia look. Now he looks like a very typical king. Wearing robes, yet his divinity doesn't stop him from carrying his child (which i find a little off in the dawn trailer).

Now the one i hate the most: Stella to Luna. Honestly, Luna sounds better fitting name than Stella. Although both are really anime-esque names, Luna just has a more FF feel. And honestly, i can understand if they truly do need to make a completely different character (especially to change the entire story). However, Luna doesn't look like a completely original character, she looks like an empty shell of what Stella was going to be all along. Keep in mind Stella had defining facial features and facial expressions. When i see Luna in every scene, even in her "stern" face. She looked fake, and i'm honestly tryng to give her a chance here (or waiting for SE to show me something worth keeping interest). Her brushing off a gun and give a face to what she foresaw did not give me enough defining moments.

And the Stella/Luna fiasco tells me so much more about the situation than ever before...

When we received the new trailer and its announcement of Final Fantasy XV, the trailer showed Luna. This was still with Tetsuya Nomura in charge and still calling it his project (apparently) and suddenly revealed this was inspired as a friends traveling together, it didn't take too long to reveal it was moving toward new director. In which Tabata was mostly talking about game mechanics and what could and couldn't work. But then he suddenly claims that Luna wasn't working with his new vision and had to go in replacing Stella (when we already saw Luna in the trailer). We continued to see more, until suddenly on a whim (yes, a whim) they change Noctis father design. he reveals little by little on Luna, on what he should've given us a very direct response from the start about Luna. Also, shouldn't have given her a soft-vanilla design. Luna's design doesn't tell me "Stronger than Stella" it shows as "weaker".

What color are her eyes? i can't tell very well, i would have to pay attention to the trailer or see it again. (something i normally dont need to do for interesting characters). her slightly tan, platinum blonde

I dont believe the whole road trip design was part of the original concept....yes, i believe some of it may have been true to use the car as main form of transportation, but not as one of the main theme. That would've been confirmed a long time ago. Second, Tabata was secretly in charge of the game back when they decided to make it into FF15 (not reveal it to public), but was too busy on Type-0 to give it any real attention up until now. Which is why what feels sudden to us, no one in SE are bashing an eye lid.

There was a time when Nomura said he wanted to talk about Versus 13 at the time but couldn't. this was probably a sign of NOmura wanting to let us know ahead of time to prepare for changes. (then again, the decision to make sch a seen was pre-rendered, suddenly was scrapped not too far off).


TL;DR - The timing for FF15 is absolutely terrible. I can't trust its story at all until i see it for myself, and even then i'm still skeptical on lack of magic. Nothing sounds like it was a well thought out decision.

NOTE: a lot of fans are trying to see these changes as what the head of SE are seeking to make these changes, for global appeal. I doubt that. Versus 13 already had a global appeal, moving it to main name only means giving it more to make it a main game and considering the change seems more as a business need than envisioning a game's true vision. I can't in good consciou sbelieve that Final Fantasy XV is the true and refined vision, it will always be half and half.


Hey, but what if we do not care about your opinion? I mean, sure, that sounds harsh but to me it appears you are still blinded by a few things, yet you still seem to have the ability to prophesy why the game is going to be shit. I will say it TIME AND TIME again but we have barely even scratched the surface of Final Fantasy XV even after all these years it was in development and also under the name Versus XIII. This game is not what you wanted it to be but still has elements of the game you desired. Stella is present as Luna, Regis has a reason for his redesign, DLC was inevitable whether you like it or not because it is a staple in gaming nowadays.

Your complaints quite honestly are not that great and I do not think you have seen enough to "bash" FF XV into the ground. You bring up DLC, and you do not think straightly because dlc is a bad thing even if it is free, according to you, anyway. I understand that you want airships and the like in the game right when it is in your hand at release but it should not really matter to you since you are not paying anything when dlc is released. I assume Tabata and his development team have been hard at work on this very ambitious title and that giving DLC to the fans at a price would be an insult to all of us, and that is why, in my opinion, dlc is going to be free for FF XV. Little things such as costumes, airships, maybe even character swapping or a Luna focused DLC could happen in the future. Razberry, what even makes a numbered game in the franchise for you? I'm not asking that out of curiosity, I'm asking that as a fan that thinks FFXV has everything a FF title has, but with a more realistic attempt at things. The locations are realistic; the characters behave realistically, etc. Who cares if YOU think magic and summons are being downplayed in this title? Tabata has said that summons are fewer because they are central to the story, and magic is supposedly very powerful and will work differently than what we are normally used to.

On Luna VS Stella: What are you even saying? Ugh, I cannot really answer you without feeling enraged that you keep shying away from Luna but it is time to move on, no offense to you. Luna is not fake woman and you have not played the game yet, therefore it is seriously impossible for you to note that about her character. You are giving her a chance yet you still bash her. I do not agree that she is strong just because she pushed a gun away, and that is not the focal point of the trailer either way. The main point of the trailer was to show that Luna has determination in her eyes, foreseeing the inevitable disaster that might kill various people, so as the Oracle, she was gazing into the future at the end of the trailer when she got up. It was not a "bitch, please" moment, and I think you are seeing it that way. Stella is gone and she will not be returning the way you wanted her to be. She is Luna now with a SLIGHTLY different detail to her story, and yes, while SE haven't exactly explained how Stella was a damsel in distress, it is best to assume that Stella actually was one and what we saw from her was a very skewed view by fans like me and you. I admired Stella as a character but I am not going to cry over here that she will not be coming back. You also have to keep in mind that this was a little "introduction" to Luna's resolve and it will only get stronger by the time Square Enix reveal more info about her. Right now, you may be enraged that Stella is gone, but hey, you will still remember some features Stella has when you look at her at least.

On the roadtrip theme: All I can say about this is that the roadtrip theme was present in the first trailer. We clearly saw them in a car and them getting out as a group drawing their weapons. Sure, that is not indicative of a whole theme like that, but it was inevitable that it was a concept in Versus XIII because they showed Noctis in a car and even the others as well. The car back then was not a key point, but there was still a point to it, imo and the evidence is in previous trailers. I would recommend you re watch them.

Lastly, you cannot claim that XV is not a full title just because it is half versus and half XV, like you say it is. SE has a lot planned for the future with FFXV, So if I were you, I would give the game a chance because otherwise you will miss out on what could be the next big Final Fantasy game, and also a revive in activity of our forum. Where is your evidence that suggests XV is only half a game? Characters from versus are still present except for Stella. If you really care about XV and believe it is in trouble, I would suggest voicing your opinion on the official FFXV forums, but if you make a post like this, you will surely get down voted.
 
Regarding DLC

I am a little more liberal when it comes to DLC. If it is apparent that some story content from the base game is ever chopped off to make way for DLC, I would join in the chorus of internet boos, because it's an abhorrent practice. If on the other hand, story DLC does ever appear down the line and it is acceptably reasonable enough to believe that: 1) it was not sawed off the base game; and 2) it is not critically important content that would leave a player who does not possess the DLC in the dark regarding a major plot point or sequence; maaaaaaaybe I can accept it, depending on what it is. I would never trust Tabata again if this latter situation were to happen, because the man has made it known to us that it's a full standalone story in the package.

Now, regarding that other DLC-related can of worms. Airships. Would it be outrageous if controllable airships were to appear as DLC? Well, let's talk through two points. Firstly, in the last Active Time Report, Tabata stated (if you can trust him) that in the event of something like an airship DLC, it would ideally be free. Secondly...yes, it makes airships seem like an afterthought, but the game was never designed for controllable airships. Is it so vital that we be able to fly an airship around a world that was never built for it from the ground up, making it kind of a useless nostalgia-tickler for five minutes? You likely won't uncover mysterious new locations only traversable by airship. It will likely only be by off-road driving, or some thorough poking around on a Chocobo. Either scenarios of no airship, or airship to come later as free DLC would not rattle me the slightest.

Other than that, the FFXIII-2 model of optional DLC content I can just about stomach. There was talk of maybe someone like Gilgamesh as DLC. Yes, I'm also a wee bit upset at the idea that the package you have purchased may not have everything there is (another reason why I never purchase at full price anyway!), but you come to expect it with today's industry.

Regarding the switch from a spinoff title to a mainline title

I don't really care.

We can only control one character? Not really a big deal. Would I have liked to be able to swing a massive Zweihander around as Gladio? I wouldn't mind, but it's hardly essential. FFXIII already made character swapping as bloody cumbersome as possible (can only do it after a certain point in the game, out of battle, and with the need to redo paradigm decks as well) that I was discouraged from even bothering. FFXI and FFXIV only let you control one player avatar at a time. Yes, they are MMOs and follow the conventions of the genre, but they're also mainline titles, so it is not a truly novel bit of shock that another mainline game is restricting us to one person only. Being caged to only one character is not an inherent negative, so long as there is enough variety in the combat mechanics and a decent Gambits system to maintain the tempo of the experience and prevent it from reaching a point of stale fettering.

I may have bloody hated FFXIII, but I'd rather a franchise that continues to boldy experiment and eschew the failed results. As someone who actually likes seeing what madness they've invented for the next game, I don't really have a concrete list of things I feel a mainline title ought to adhere to in order to be a "full" or "proper" Final Fantasy game. My expectations are simple: give me a meaty game that isn't crap, with characters and a narrative that don't make me want to reach my hands out into the screen and strangle the first neck they encounter. So FFXV being a full action-RPG with only one controllable character in a males-only group enjoying a road trip while Lucis burns isn't exactly inspiring me to be up in arms. I still firmly believe that a cast of guys all wearing black is a jarring thing to see for a franchise known for colourful and diverse characters, but it's hardly that significant a turn-off.

What would be a turn-off is if the combat is as below-par as it is in the Duscae demo. For the game's sake, there had better be a satisfying magic system and Gambits system, because Duscae's barebones combat as it was is laughably weak and unrefined. Of course it's unrefined, one would say to me. It's a pre-alpha demo released a year and a half away from release. Indeed, but Duscae just highlights the sheer volume of work that has yet to be done. No one relishes the thought of hacking away at a giant monster's toenails for 45 minutes.

Regarding re-designs

King Regis' whole makeover does feel unnecessary to me at the moment. The old design was still featured in a very recent Jump Festa trailer, which makes me wonder whether that was just placeholder footage of the character before the actual re-reveal, or whether this was a very recent, maybe last minute dramatic change of role and design. I'm hesitant to believe the latter, because substantial changes wouldn't simply materialise out of the ether like that, especially when it can have repercussions up and down the rest of the game's scenes, models, script and sequences.

But, we may never know for sure. I just vastly prefer the old Yakuza boss design. Simply having the suit made him seem like a very modern monarch, like something you would expect to see the Spanish, Dutch and Swedish kings wear when they make public appearances. It also made him look somewhat unique by fantasy king standards. I don't detest the new design. I do find it incongruous with the rest of Lucis as a modern metropolitan environment. Here he is retaining a bit of suit underneath a bunch of armour parts that would make Ned Stark high-five him. And he's old with next to no physical resemblance to his son.

Stella, Stella, Stella.

tumblr_nmkhnnenok1rmg6vqtn.gif


Oh, sorry. I meant Luna.

I feel like I should care, but I honestly don't. The only thing about Stella I was attached to was her 2008-9 Visual Works design and the shot of her standing all forlorn under a full moon and flanked by two skyscrapers. But they were scrapped yonks ago, culminating in what I feel to be the worst looking Stella as seen in FFXV's very first trailer at E3. Luna is a significant upgrade from that incarnation, even if I'm not fond of her doll-like complexion and the noticeably glassy-eyed look.

I'll give Luna the benefit of the doubt and see how they handle her. If the actual marketing would do something to demonstrate to us her pedigree as a strong and independent woman, then show it. It's tiresome when I have to hear Tabata and his marketing guru champion about how amazing she is, as if the art of just telling us would suffice. Yeah, his marketing guru...the same man who made the offhand comment about how contradictory it seems that people want a female party member, and yet find Cindy too "sexy". Yeah, I'm going to listen to that guy. But I digress. There is no sense mourning what could have been for Stella, because we cannot know whether her original role was any good, nor can we know for certain what her role even was, outside of fan speculation. I shall judge Luna as a completely new character and on her own merits. And after Cindy mucked it up for the women, I dearly hope Luna and Gentiana will be decent enough to make up for her.
 
Quiet

All i'm hearing is I dont care, i dont care and i dont care.....So if you don't care. shut up. Honestly.....use your voice for something worth useful. CONVINCE ME. and i mean truly CONVINCE ME!!! Can you do that? Dont' throw your opinion, VALUE IT and make me understand that what you have is at least 75% reasonable.

Like i said before, i never denied the car being the main form of transportation, but A group of friends "road trip" is a completely different idea than using it as one of the main forms of transportation. Theres a difference. You fail to understand, what i'm seeing isn't something BETTER.....Luna looks like a very empty shade of Stella....and i'm talking about this in the visual aspects. there is still plenty and i mean PLENTY of room to give Luna a more unique design.

Everything so far appears like a slight modification to what the original Stella was intended to be, only with different backstory. So why complain you may ask? Why feel so upset about it? Because it doesn't look like an upgrade, they all look like downgrades. Stella was already a strong character, we were already going to see her in action, and she played a much more personal role. Luna appears to be the more personal typical relationship. not as complex as it was made out ot be back in versus days. She's even arranged to be married to noctis. But everything else shows Luna is much more distant.

Visually, she doesn't appeal to me...i say go all the way, or don't. Luna went a quarter way, not even half....but that 25% of difference feels like a downgrade. SE fully capable of designing great characters.

You forget that i dont trust SE because of their poor strategy since the moment they revealed it as ff15. I'm talking about how everything was revealed so far, hinting very little and yet expecting us to stay pleased with the changes with little to no information as to why. Not to mention, the reveal to ff15 and the sudden change in director timeline doesn't add up at all.

There was another game that was just like this Final Fantasy 12. and i absolutely love Final Fantasy 12....but even i know its not complete. As great as it was, i still play that game feeling i'm only getting 75% of the plot. Gameplay is fun, and i love exploring but i just dont feel complete with that game. And i long for the days that SE would finish it. I dont doubt ff15 will be a good game, it already has enough staples already. I just doubt it will be a complete game, and for me, that matters most.

With everything so far, even DLC is an issue....and keep in mind i had never and i mean NEVER downloaded any additional content. And you need to understand DLC is a legitimate reason not buying the game right away.

.Fleur

I'll cover mainly the switch from Main line from spin-off. spin-off gave the freedom to make a high-quality game while experimenting with old and new aspects. At the time, FF Versus XIII was a game that was meant to be "dark" and "sad". And for a spin-off that sounded like a a great idea. It was suppose to be single-player from the beginning.

If you see, its original announcement as FF15 showed they were attempting to move it to a mainline FF game, having at least a controllable cast by switching between them. BUt thinking hard on why they couldn't, it doesn't seem because of capabilities, it seems more likely to switch between characters means giving them their own unique movesets that can be controlled and creating those would only delay.

This is also an issue now, you may not realize this, but you're seeking for main-game ideas if you feel the gameplay was bare-bones. And this awkward transition shows me SE doesn't know what is appealing, what is working. the demo was a way to get feedback on the battle system and the world. They probably had a feeling a game completely based on car travel and no reward on going off-road wasn't going to work, so they made duscae to show there could be (the real question is, will other provinces offer the same amount and more in.

You want the things a main numbered game has....just like i do...i'm just willing to call SE out on it. main-numbered qualities is what everyone seeks. At least we'll be getting a half-open world, which isn't so bad...but for me, i'm worried about how much the story holds up all together.
 
@Quiet

All i'm hearing is I dont care, i dont care and i dont care.....So if you don't care. shut up. Honestly.....use your voice for something worth useful. CONVINCE ME. and i mean truly CONVINCE ME!!! Can you do that? Dont' throw your opinion, VALUE IT and make me understand that what you have is at least 75% reasonable.

Like i said before, i never denied the car being the main form of transportation, but A group of friends "road trip" is a completely different idea than using it as one of the main forms of transportation. Theres a difference. You fail to understand, what i'm seeing isn't something BETTER.....Luna looks like a very empty shade of Stella....and i'm talking about this in the visual aspects. there is still plenty and i mean PLENTY of room to give Luna a more unique design.

Everything so far appears like a slight modification to what the original Stella was intended to be, only with different backstory. So why complain you may ask? Why feel so upset about it? Because it doesn't look like an upgrade, they all look like downgrades. Stella was already a strong character, we were already going to see her in action, and she played a much more personal role. Luna appears to be the more personal typical relationship. not as complex as it was made out ot be back in versus days. She's even arranged to be married to noctis. But everything else shows Luna is much more distant.

Visually, she doesn't appeal to me...i say go all the way, or don't. Luna went a quarter way, not even half....but that 25% of difference feels like a downgrade. SE fully capable of designing great characters.

You forget that i dont trust SE because of their poor strategy since the moment they revealed it as ff15. I'm talking about how everything was revealed so far, hinting very little and yet expecting us to stay pleased with the changes with little to no information as to why. Not to mention, the reveal to ff15 and the sudden change in director timeline doesn't add up at all.

There was another game that was just like this Final Fantasy 12. and i absolutely love Final Fantasy 12....but even i know its not complete. As great as it was, i still play that game feeling i'm only getting 75% of the plot. Gameplay is fun, and i love exploring but i just dont feel complete with that game. And i long for the days that SE would finish it. I dont doubt ff15 will be a good game, it already has enough staples already. I just doubt it will be a complete game, and for me, that matters most.

With everything so far, even DLC is an issue....and keep in mind i had never and i mean NEVER downloaded any additional content. And you need to understand DLC is a legitimate reason not buying the game right away.

It is not that I do not care. In fact, I do care about trying to convince you but you make the poorest attempts in your response to posts that I find myself refuting everything you have to say. It is not that I have a problem with you, but I rather do have a problem with judging a game as "half" when we do not know how big or good the game is yet and your general negativity towards SE. I am not failing to understand that you clearly have a problem with Luna but it should not be bothering you THAT much. I know that you feel she is a terrible design because there is next to no originality in her design and they also introduced her in the Japanese magazines as a new character, but you need to cool down sometimes. Let us face it; fans liked Stella so Luna is reminiscent of her likeness. Yeah, that is no excuse to scrap Stella because fans like you and me thought Stella was a very strong female, when in fact that is not even true and I explained it in my previous post. Square Enix said to fans "We can't make Stella work in our story of FFXV because Stella is a damsel in distress and we wanted to focus on a female with burning determination in her eyes. A female that is capable of resolving her own issues and one that is able to fight without the help of the main hero" Obviously, that is just a paraphrase of mine but you get the damn point!

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What does the quote above tell you about Stella? It tells us that fans made up their own speculations about Stella in the trailers for versus when in actuality she was the one that needed to be saved. I am not sure why you cannot accept that she was not a strong character, but rather a weak one like I explained to you already. I know that you might counter SE's argument and say that Stella fought Noctis and drew her rapier because she was showing her strength, and that she was a very realistic character, but the evidence is there and right now you are going to have to take it at face value because you would never know if SE were lying. Maybe the story of Versus XIII actually sucked hard and that is why XV is more developed into a strong plot. Furthermore, it does not matter if Luna has an arranged marriage to Noctis or vice versa. It is better than meeting Stella at a party, which is in fact one of the most generic tropes in JRPG games you can have. If Luna does not appeal to you visually then you are going to have to give it time. If you care about Stella as I do, you will eventually accept that Luna is the heroine that is a better fit for the game. No offense but Luna has done more right now. You might not think pushing away a gun is much, but she already demonstrates more resolve in the new trailer and also her artwork. What has Stella done in comparison? Oh, she slashed clashed with Noctis probably out of misunderstanding and then they end up loving each other because her hero saved her. Have you ever played Xenogears? Stella would be just like Elhaym and fight on the villain’s side but then love the main character and then screw up her life because of clashing between nations. Do you see where I am going with this now? FFXV is a game about human relationships and emphasizes specifically on men, women, and their hardships. It is trying to be realistic so they are shying away from a generic damsel.

How on Earth is changing the title to FFXV a poor strategy when it is inevitable? I cannot really answer your criticism of the title change because it all seems so shallow. I will say that the title change does not bother me one bit. It is for the better of the game and they had to change lots of the story to make it work with Luna and maybe Gentiana. Gentiana was revealed in the trailer that showed Stella and her new look. I bet Gentiana had no role yet because Stella was going to be scrapped. Again, the game is more complete than versus was during development hell then why is it so hard for you to accept that FFXV is going to be a main game. Cut content happens all the time but Square Enix has no EXCUSE because we have been waiting years and years for this damn game. I understand your concern about the game's completion, trust me, and just look what happened with Metal Gear Solid V. I agree with you on this point at least. Everything should be complete and I would be pissed off if SE suddenly sold another
half of the story for a fee. However, I am not fearful right now due to Tabata saying dlc would be free.
 
It is not that I do not care. In fact, I do care about trying to convince you but you make the poorest attempts in your response to posts that I find myself refuting everything you have to say. It is not that I have a problem with you, but I rather do have a problem with judging a game as "half" when we do not know how big or good the game is yet and your general negativity towards SE. I am not failing to understand that you clearly have a problem with Luna but it should not be bothering you THAT much. I know that you feel she is a terrible design because there is next to no originality in her design and they also introduced her in the Japanese magazines as a new character, but you need to cool down sometimes. Let us face it; fans liked Stella so Luna is reminiscent of her likeness. Yeah, that is no excuse to scrap Stella because fans like you and me thought Stella was a very strong female, when in fact that is not even true and I explained it in my previous post.
But Luna isn't an upgrade on the design, its a downgrade. And we didn't think anything, we knew. But Developers don't always reveal the truth. in fact there is a long and on going history of Developers promising one thing and doing the other. SE has done this multiple times.

Square Enix said to fans "We can't make Stella work in our story of FFXV because Stella is a damsel in distress and we wanted to focus on a female with burning determination in her eyes. A female that is capable of resolving her own issues and one that is able to fight without the help of the main hero" Obviously, that is just a paraphrase of mine but you get the damn point!


Tabata didn't even mention how Stella was a weak and passive character to begin with. If she was so weak and passive, it would've been good to share those bits. But this looks like just a ploy to win over fans.

I don't believe for a second that Stella was designed as a weak and passive character. Whether she needed saving? that's up for debate because Advent Children despite Cloud saving the children, it was actually Cloud who needed saving, and he got it in a way that didn't make him look "weak and passive". Just because someone needs saving doesn't mean their not a person of action. Lets look at what we DO know about Stella:

For example, the infamous introduction to Stella seen shows she's at least already confident and comfortable with Noctis. This character was already in heavy contrast with Noctis and was helping the player understand Noctis. During the video we see Noctis trying to act cool but in reality he's being shy and turning away while Stella, the more confident and well-grounded character tries to continue a discussion.

The next few trailers of Final Fantasy Versus XIII showed us a scene where both Stella and Noctis were going to face each other, keep in mind, this is all just to introduce us to Stella. Whether that scene was pure concept or designed to play the story along, we can clearly see that Stella having her own abilities and the face of determination was within their intentions from the beginning. As another note, her background was also given to explain her abilities. So there was more than just a basic concept, there were things that were solidified.

What does the quote above tell you about Stella? It tells us that fans made up their own speculations about Stella in the trailers for versus when in actuality she was the one that needed to be saved. I am not sure why you cannot accept that she was not a strong character, but rather a weak one like I explained to you already. I know that you might counter SE's argument and say that Stella fought Noctis and drew her rapier because she was showing her strength, and that she was a very realistic character, but the evidence is there and right now you are going to have to take it at face value because you would never know if SE were lying. Maybe the story of Versus XIII actually sucked hard and that is why XV is more developed into a strong plot. Furthermore, it does not matter if Luna has an arranged marriage to Noctis or vice versa. It is better than meeting Stella at a party, which is in fact one of the most generic tropes in JRPG games you can have. If Luna does not appeal to you visually then you are going to have to give it time.

Tabata's original excuse was that she didn't fit within the new vision of the story. Tabata couldn't make sense of her. Second time he mentions that why go for a character that didn't fit with the story? he disregarded fans here. Now he suddenly says that its because Stella was too weak, passive, that needed saving to be a heroine?

Here's the problem with taking everything at face-value....you dont investigate, and you don't add things up with other things. I dont need to even look back on what Stella was, to see Tabata is pulling stuff out of thin air. If Tabata told you Noctis is a girl despite hundreds of interviews saying he was a boy, would you take it the same way?

Like i said, theres also the transition between Tabata moving into the project, and when the reveal of the trailer. Things don't add up, and i'm not going to be the one that gets the short end of the stick.

If you care about Stella as I do, you will eventually accept that Luna is the heroine that is a better fit for the game.
Assuming you care about the original design at all? You're trying to say "i care as much as you do, therefore you should listen to me because i care equal amount" but when you go around saying "it shouldn't bother you this much" you clearly don't.

No offense but Luna has done more right now.
Luna has done absolutely nothing. We haven't even seen her interact with a single character. At least Stella had that and more.

You might not think pushing away a gun is much, but she already demonstrates more resolve in the new trailer and also her artwork.
I'm ignoring artwork, and looking strictly on whats going on. Pushing a gun away isn't much at all. its practically nothing, and if SE had to explain it to us what that meant, then i rather not listen to SE and judge for myself. I bet if SE said absolutely nothing about it, we would stay the same. At least for Stella, we dont need to
What has Stella done in comparison? Oh, she slashed clashed with Noctis probably out of misunderstanding and then they end up loving each other because her hero saved her. Have you ever played Xenogears? Stella would be just like Elhaym and fight on the villain’s side but then love the main character and then screw up her life because of clashing between nations. Do you see where I am going with this now? FFXV is a game about human relationships and emphasizes specifically on men, women, and their hardships. It is trying to be realistic so they are shying away from a generic damsel.

Right here shows me, you have this some sort of fan denial. If you cared for Stella at all. You're trying to brush off the original design as much as possible, its painful to hear. Its like seeing someone who clearly has cancer trying to say how cool cancer is.

i care about Stella more than you ever could. And i'll tell you why: Its more than Stella's design vs Luna's (although thats by the mere fact that Luna doesn't look like she's trying to win in design, which upsets me as an addition). Its what Stella represents or represented.

Brushing off a gun and actually having combat against the main character are polarizing. I'm not ignoring the fact that she brushed off a gun, but that's vanilla compared to what Stella actually was doing. Even if you try to add your own theory for the sake of it. You're not even trying to be convincing. You accepting what SE is saying and even speaking for them when their not saying a thing. But lets see when SE actually contradicts themselves?


Nomura - "[Stella] is the first female character that will stand out"

"Stella was a member of the wealthy Fleuret family and resided in the land of Tenebrae. She was shown meeting Noctis at an aristocratic meeting, and it was said the two would share a connection. After a near-death experience early in her life, similar to Noctis, Stella could see the light from the Kingdom of the Dead, which granted her special powers. Although the two did not wish to fight each other, they were forced to do battle as a result of unknown circumstances. Magazine articles drew similarities between her situation and that of Celes Chere from Final Fantasy VI.

She had an honest and polite attitude, but was assertive and true to her beliefs due to her upbringing. As demonstrated in the Tokyo Game Show footage, she was direct and did not shy away from her problems, as opposed to Noctis, who is more reserved. According to Tetsuya Nomura, Stella would "stand out" in some way from the other female characters in the series."

First off, what does this tell you? This tells me a lot. Not just on what we were going to get out of Stella, but how much the back story hasn't changed. Luna also has the same "near-death" experience that had given her powers. So how is this new character so different? The fact that she controls Leviathan? So she was given a more power dose than the original (which is unknown).

Keep in mind losing Stella means losing part of Noctis aswell, as Stella was always designed in a way to help contrast and reveal Noctis' true personality traits. Noctis being shy is one of the things. Now we have Luna, who in turn is now a childhood friend who he is now familiar with.
How on Earth is changing the title to FFXV a poor strategy when it is inevitable? I cannot really answer your criticism of the title change because it all seems so shallow. I will say that the title change does not bother me one bit. It is for the better of the game and they had to change lots of the story to make it work with Luna and maybe Gentiana. Gentiana was revealed in the trailer that showed Stella and her new look. I bet Gentiana had no role yet because Stella was going to be scrapped. Again, the game is more complete than versus was during development hell then why is it so hard for you to accept that FFXV is going to be a main game. Cut content happens all the time but Square Enix has no EXCUSE because we have been waiting years and years for this damn game. I understand your concern about the game's completion, trust me, and just look what happened with Metal Gear Solid V. I agree with you on this point at least. Everything should be complete and I would be pissed off if SE suddenly sold another
half of the story for a fee. However, I am not fearful right now due to Tabata saying dlc would be free.

And not everyone buys DLC, not everyone has a PSN account or plays online. Some people just do all that on PC or wait until the completed version. And that's the problem, their working on a deadline, they want to release it sometime next year, and we barely getting anything so far. You have to understand, whether its free or paid, the act of getting more content for a game that should've been complete in the first place is a hassle. And this is something a lot of people just tend to avoid. And people still avoid DLC as much as possible, especially FF fans. SE is capable of puling off a 13-2.

But we have a clear example of a game that looks incomplete an that is Final Fantasy 12...And i'm not talking about gameplay, because it clearly has a solid gameplay. And the voice acting is good,and there's not much glitches. But the incomplete feeling comes in story-wise, untouched themes or not enough coverage of information, or WORST stuffing all the gritty information in reports like 13 did. It was a good story and had new themes. I understand the original vision for the game is gone....but people underestimate what that means....that means characters that had much more background will probably be lost in transition between characters.

You ignore what makes a main game, what makes it a spin-off. You see, SE right now is trying to add some form that will allow it to be considered a main game by most fans all while knowing that the name change is a strategic move to make it to sell more.

This game only resembles Kingdom hearts which it was suppose to, and would've worked perfectly as a spin-off, but now they have to worry about how it looks like a unique battle system, which is why dodging cost magic and why they need more feedback.

They were trying to implement switchable characters within the party not because the game was originally designed as such but because the transition to main game demanded it. And they couldn't, and its most likely because they were so focused on single player character gameplay. Now airships is another form of main game use as they are now trying to push from semi-open world to completely open world.

Everything shows that SE can't afford time to turn this completely into a main game. The change to main numbered game is a big change, and don't underestimate that. its like if Final Fantasy Dissidia was going to be moved as a main-numbered game. The standards would suddenly move to such. Or lets not use Dissidia, lets use for example...Final Fantasy Mobius. the demand would be home console, not a game designed for mobile. Gilgamesh shouldn't even be considered as DLC, unless its a huge side-quest that SE can't even afford to work on.



AGAIN...please don't ask me to trust you....because its not whether i trust you, its whether i trust SE. And you're just someone who happens to trust them, And you forget, you're talking to someone who doesn't. And i solely believe i have every reason to distrust them at this point. I'm not going to feel sorry for SE and buy a game because they needed to make money and pushed it along.
 
There is an awful lot of psychoanalysis going on of two (one?) character(s) that we know barely anything about. Quite frankly, it's all a load of fan conjecture, selective overanalysis and confirmation bias that makes this whole thing somewhat embarrassing to even read.

When someone brings up what a game director (be it Nomura or Tabata) said/promised about a character, is that really supposed to be good evidence for something? They can say whatever they want for PR/marketing reasons.

They may also genuinely have a vision for that character in their head as exactly described in preliminary oral and text form, but what is in their head isn't necessarily what is going to translate 1:1 onto a script and in the final product. So you are confronted with the very probable combination of being unable to mould that character's development and personality traits exactly as originally planned in order to gel with the story and script; and the fact that execution is so often a major stumbling block when one sits down to give those ideas form. Dialogue becomes stilted, obscure, ambiguous...your character's development is unnatural and it may never arrive; their endpoint is miles away from what was planned; motivations become muddled; personal reflection and development suddenly flood in from out of the blue, etc.

Nomura saying Stella was X, while Tabata sheds a different light and says Stella was Y instead, and Luna is X - okay, just stop. I don't care. Nomura could have been talking bullshit. Tabata could also right now have been talking bullshit. It's a load of hot air telling us things that may or may not be/have been true. I think all this psychoanalysis is daft, when as mentioned already, much of what fans have drawn up about Stella is based off of sheer speculation and a bunch of things Nomura once said that for whatever reason is frequently taken as gospel despite being unverifiable; and the fact that as of now, we're barely any more acquainted with Luna!

Its like seeing someone who clearly has cancer trying to say how cool cancer is.

I know this may seem dick-ish of me to point out, but this is a really shitty analogy no matter how I read it.
 
There is an awful lot of psychoanalysis going on of two (one?) character(s) that we know barely anything about.
It is when it comes to Quiet tryingto make a big moment out of "brushing off a gun" and trying to compare it to an actual confrontation scene with Noctis, and even more so trying to point out "Eyes".
Quite frankly, it's all a load of fan conjecture, selective overanalysis and confirmation bias that makes this whole thing somewhat embarrassing to even read.
I agree when it comes to trying to compare one scene from the other. but i find it BAFFLING how Quiet even thought she was making a valid case when all she did was compare two heavily polarizing scenes.
When someone brings up what a game director (be it Nomura or Tabata) said/promised about a character, is that really supposed to be good evidence for something? They can say whatever they want for PR/marketing reasons.

i think at this point, its easy to forget the information of Final Fantasy Versus XIII....I've been waiting on this game just as long as everyone one. But i've also been very determined to reeive this game, always brushing up on old information so that when we got new information, i can add it up.

But at this point

They may also genuinely have a vision for that character in their head as exactly described in preliminary oral and text form, but what is in their head isn't necessarily what is going to translate 1:1 onto a script and in the final product. So you are confronted with the very probable combination of being unable to mould that character's development and personality traits exactly as originally planned in order to gel with the story and script; and the fact that execution is so often a major stumbling block when one sits down to give those ideas form. Dialogue becomes stilted, obscure, ambiguous...your character's development is unnatural and it may never arrive; their endpoint is miles away from what was planned; motivations become muddled; personal reflection and development suddenly flood in from out of the blue, etc.
So look here who is giving the analysis?

Nomura saying Stella was X, while Tabata sheds a different light and says Stella was Y instead, and Luna is X - okay, just stop. I don't care.
Of course you dont care. At this point its self preservation.

Nomura could have been talking bullshit. Tabata could also right now have been talking bullshit. It's a load of hot air telling us things that may or may not be/have been true.
Nomura could have been talking bullshit....but....give me one good and strong reason why he was?

There is "plenty" of reason to believe Tabata is talking bullshit...and like i said, this isn't about analyzing a character, this is about lining up the points in the timeline, how many revisions they had to make with their confirmations about the transition from Stella to Luna. It doesn't take a fan to see he's full of it. It doesn't take me to see it either. Quiet's trump card in the discussion is believing in Tabata that this character that we were going to see was (to his eyes) weak, passive, and needing saving (which isn't exactly a bad thing, in fact most main characters have that). And she used her own analysis on it.

I think all this psychoanalysis is daft, when as mentioned already, much of what fans have drawn up about Stella is based off of sheer speculation and a bunch of things Nomura once said that for whatever reason is frequently taken as gospel despite being unverifiable;

A) no speculation whatsoever. I challenge you to provide one thing that i fabricated about Stella. B) This was Nomura's project. He was the director, and he was the character designer. So yeah....what he was said was taken as gospel at the time. But just because Tabata is the Director, does it suddenly mean his word is gospel? especially when it contradicts other information?

Answer me that please.
and the fact that as of now, we're barely any more acquainted with Luna!
And SE isn't even trying to sell the character! They just keep anticipating for it. Keep in mind, at least when it was in Final Fantasy Versus XIII stages, Stella still had more screen time and dialogue. Now that its been announced as FInal Fantasy XV, SE has barely showed us anything about this character.

Dont get snippy, i'm pointing out the obvious. Or what people like to forget.

I know this may seem dick-ish of me to point out, but this is a really shitty analogy no matter how I read it.
Luna is cancer....Quiet has it. And Quiet is trying more to the point of ridiculousness to defend this character. Hence, the analogy of Cancer and trying to make it look cool.

Call it "shitty". If the shoe fits, wear it. And the shoe most definitely fits. Me? i am still challenging anyone here that everything i talked about Stella was fabricated or fan interpretation.
 
I want people to understand one thing...i would love to play a game with a single vision or at least a "shared" vision. The problem i have is that Tetsuya NOmura isn't working alongside Tabata at this point. At this point, Tabata is in charge, and Nomura isn't. And of course for business needs, Nomura cant speak about it, especially if he doesn't like the changes so far.


As another point: Stella represents a lot more. Without delving into what i think i know about the character, what Nomura confirmed about this character is tangent to Noctis. Everything that we saw was an effort to explain or help reveal the character that Noctis is. That's why the boy-band party didn't bother me at the time, because there was a side of Noctis we were going to see with the boys and the side we were going to see with the girls. At least in the unaudible side, we saw Noctis as a typical guy. it was unaudible, i give you that, but we saw so much more. we saw friendly interaction between the three characters. Noctis wasn't the center pretty boy, and none of the guys looked so hardcore as they do now.

So what i "loved" about Noctis, now feels empty or gone. none of the trailers so far showed any story about Noctis in his adult life, and "Stella" was a pretty interesting character.

Lets also look at Luna, so far the game has all been about leaning toward archetypes and not developing them into something original. For example: Luna, despite all this talk about her being strong, i have yet to see something original about her. ALl there is hype.

IF you look into what we DO KNOW, you'll see she's just another archetype. Luna is now a childhood friend to Noctis (big surprise) and they made some form of promise (ugh), but now their going to be arranged to be married.

The yakuza-esque King is now more Kingly, (but counters with him holding his son at such an age). Which could be an even bigger impact.


Overall, the story is what i'm worried about now.......there is a lot of issues going on.....but one of the bigger issues is moving "airships" into DLC. i find that airships shouldn't be DLC, it should be story related. We're talking about game that is about war, and the ones who will save it is a group of boys in a car? the car is another issue. main transportation? fine....but i'm worried about the game being designed around it. so far chocobo's are easing me (so long as its story related more than once).
 
I'm sorry that I miss so many of your points, but I lost count after awhile. You'll have to forgive me on that. I hope you don't see my post as simply "cherry picking" or being "evasive". This post isn't meant to convince you, but to only provide my perspective on things.

TLDR; This FF game may simply not be for you. However, that does not automatically mean it will be a poor game. Even in the event the game does not deliver, that does not mean the next person won't enjoy the game.

Imo, you are jumping the gun on the status of airships. They may or may not be woven into the vanilla story. As mentioned before, if they do end up as DLC it will be free according to Tabata. Honestly, I have zero complaints about free DLC. I am ok with that since this aspect is being planned to be outsourced to a different team outside the company, correct me if I am wrong, that will work on that. I'll take free DLC as something that would work over possibly getting something day one that isn't up to proper optimization level and needs patching afterward.

Stella and Luna are not the same. When Tabata took over the project, he estimated the game being about 25%-30% complete. There's a chance that at that stage, Stella hadn't been fully fleshed out yet. So, we can only judge on what we have seen and nothing beyond that. Is Luna doomed to be another typical archetype character? Yes, it is possible. It is also possible for character development, that thing that happens in other single player FF main line titles, to take place that would break that molding.

The original design for Regis may still be used in some format in the final game. Only time will tell if that happens or not. As already mentioned, there is a story-line related reason behind the redesign for Regis.

Tabata and Nomura did spend some time communicating with each other before Nomura put his focus on the KH series again. Tabata is trying to respect Nomura's vision as much as possible.

The car route means of transportation isn't a big issue for me as a main method for a good duration of time. This actually took place in FFVIII as well, except that game rotated in trains as well early game. The car, as explained in a past ATR, does have story lore behind it. This is still a Final Fantasy game. What you define as a Final Fantasy game, may not be what the next person defines as a Final Fantasy game. Different strokes for different folks. That is a reason why I am grateful the series tries to appeal to most people with at least one installment. There is still room for the series to explore new topics, or go deeper into past covered topics with a different spin.

I am sad that the game won't have a mature rating, but I also understand Tabata's stance on wanting to get the game out to as many people as possible by making it more accessible on the rating system. The summons in the game are fewer, but have their own personalities and are going to play a role in the story itself. I will gladly take quality over quantity in this case.
 
I'm sorry that I miss so many of your points, but I lost count after awhile. You'll have to forgive me on that. I hope you don't see my post as simply "cherry picking" or being "evasive". This post isn't meant to convince you, but to only provide my perspective on things.

TLDR; This FF game may simply not be for you. However, that does not automatically mean it will be a poor game. Even in the event the game does not deliver, that does not mean the next person won't enjoy the game.
if half the community claims they've enjoyed ff13. It doesn't really matter to me if others enjoy it. I believe we're living in a dry spell with games. Ff is constantly trying to keep up with tech and never gets ahead. Which is why we had 2 sequels for a game that never demanded sequels.

Game play, I don't doubt will be a bad game. But, like final fantasy 12. I'm most worried about unrefined story plot and concept. Ff15 at this point is exactly like ff12.
Imo, you are jumping the gun on the status of airships. They may or may not be woven into the vanilla story. As mentioned before, if they do end up as DLC it will be free according to Tabata. Honestly, I have zero complaints about free DLC. I am ok with that since this aspect is being planned to be outsourced to a different team outside the company, correct me if I am wrong, that will work on that. I'll take free DLC as something that would work over possibly getting something day one that isn't up to proper optimization level and needs patching afterward.

This may seem stubborn. But like I said before, there are people who never purchased a single piece of doc ever and it's not because of price, but the act of downloading. Its cumbersome to some.

Stella and Luna are not the same. When Tabata took over the project, he estimated the game being about 25%-30% complete. There's a chance that at that stage, Stella hadn't been fully fleshed out yet. So, we can only judge on what we have seen and nothing beyond that. Is Luna doomed to be another typical archetype character? Yes, it is possible. It is also possible for character development, that thing that happens in other single player FF main line titles, to take place that would break that molding.
I know Stella isn't Luna. But it was clear that around 2012, the concept was finished. After the transition to ff15, the choice is now to make it a single entity game, as every ff nnered game has done. And after that issues with Stella/Lina arose. The problem I have are valid because

A) Luna is still designed to take Stella's place as resembling name, hair color. which begs the question, did we need to have a different characte or?

B) Tabata has been heavily inconsistent on the reason why Stella had to go.

C)the man confirmed that he wasn't getting any advice or clarification anymore after the transition which led him to make this change.
The original design for Regis may still be used in some format in the final game. Only time will tell if that happens or not. As already mentioned, there is a story-line related reason behind the redesign for Regis.
It was confirmed to, there was nohing wrong with the original. SO this choice was to ne abonus, but doesnt feel like it at all. MY only guess is that he wasade to resemble the other elderly villain for reasons i cant think up now. But its not strong enough of iteams sacrificing another style that the game was going for.
Tabata and Nomura did spend some time communicating with each other before Nomura put his focus on the KH series again. Tabata is trying to respect Nomura's vision as much as possible.
i dont think so....look at the additioms and the things that tabata is showing and saying. What used to be a more modern eaque fantasy is now clearly just fantasy. Normally that isnt bad, but we were expecting modern or something closer to realoty. Stella is the byproduct of this as well as being an oracle and the level of princess.
The car route means of transportation isn't a big issue for me as a main method for a good duration of time. This actually took place in FFVIII as well, except that game rotated in trains as well early game. The car, as explained in a past ATR, does have story lore behind it. This is still a Final Fantasy game. What you define as a Final Fantasy game, may not be what the next person defines as a Final Fantasy game. Different strokes for different folks. That is a reason why I am grateful the series tries to appeal to most people with at least one installment. There is still room for the series to explore new topics, or go deeper into past covered topics with a different spin.
what i define as a ff game is based on many years. And i know the series needs to evolve, but lately it doesnt feel like its appealing the mot people and getting them into the cultire of ff. Now its more like ff is trying to sell out to the most people.

With that said, trains in ff8 isnt bad, but it wasnt designed around it. Tjeres still plenty of room to free roam in the world of ff8. WHat ff15 doesnt promise is how it will reward you for going off road and explore? My problem is that if i free ro, i wont see anything or find some side story. Etc.

Duscae was story related but whats out there that isnt story related?
I am sad that the game won't have a mature rating, but I also understand Tabata's stance on wanting to get the game out to as many people as possible by making it more accessible on the rating system. The summons in the game are fewer, but have their own personalities and are going to play a role in the story itself. I will gladly take quality over quantity in this case.
everything you said needs to be co firmed. We havent seen an actual suon yet.
 
Unless a lengthy postmortem codex is later published that deals with every juicy behind the scenes information regarding Versus and FFXV's developments as well as all the probable backroom drama that would have spawned at some point, you won't get satisfactory confirmations. You won't get concrete answers. You will only get piecemeal FAQ responses from the staff that can will either tell you nothing substantial, and/or whatever the PR department approved.

That is why all people can do is posit conjecture and educated speculation based on very tenuous foundations. After nearly a whole decade of dangling that carrot in front of fans, of course it is natural to have a sense of frustrated curiosity that has now matured to the point that it cannot be easily contained and forgotten about. Sadly, I highly doubt that Square will entertain the notion of properly sating our frustrated curiosity.

Like everyone, I would kill to know what the extent of Nomura's original vision was and what Tabata had to sacrifice to create a singular game out of what may have previously been planned as an "epic". I would like to know what Stella's role was that is now seemingly incompatible with the current direction of the story that they had to kill her, restructure her organs and a few bones, then reanimate the corpse with half a new name. I'd relish the chance to learn whether the whole spiel with premature aging due to the Lucis Crystal was always planned for King Regis, or whether this was another relatively recent change on the presumption that western markets would adore the sight of a more traditional fantasy-like badass old king instead of one who looks like a mob boss?

Speculating is fun. Trying to decipher the most probable of reasons for why X has happened can be enjoyable. Critically questioning what a director has said (e.g. "rather than having a more passive and weak heroine that needs to be saved, it would be much better to have a stronger and more determined female character") instead of swallowing it at face value is the sign of a thinking person...or a cynical one, depending on your viewpoint and how buried in the hype you are. But honestly, it will reach a point where it becomes altogether tiresome. The whole discussion will be/is already a circular one and we cover the same things over and over again with no good basis of fact. What we ultimately do is devolve into arguments about conjectural things with all the foundation to walk on as a cloud. It's why I'm going to space out from all FFXV discussions that are solely to do with retrospective speculation and just look at what is purportedly coming in the final game. Critically look at the game on its own merits rather than what it could have been.
 
suon? You mean summon right? If so, there is a summon in the demo itself. The rating question was addressed in the last ATR that took place at TGS. I believe you are in a mental state of being prepared for the worst with the overall project. Nothing anybody says will give you any piece of mind (person nor dev). I do however ask that you wait for the game to come out before you make the final call. Look up some gameplay footage and maybe look at a few reviews. The game is still going through changes. In fact, just recently Tabata answered a fan question on the FFXV forum in relation to the weapon switching having 4 preset weapons on the d-pad now instead of what was in place before.

Original answer: https://forum.finalfantasyxv.com/discussion/comment/4276#Comment_4276
Translated answer by user: https://forum.finalfantasyxv.com/di...ge-this-evening-real-time-weapon-switching/p1
 
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Unless a lengthy postmortem codex is later published that deals with every juicy behind the scenes information regarding Versus and FFXV's developments as well as all the probable backroom drama that would have spawned at some point, you won't get satisfactory confirmations. You won't get concrete answers. You will only get piecemeal FAQ responses from the staff that can will either tell you nothing substantial, and/or whatever the PR department approved.
which at this point, i'm not "buying" the game.
That is why all people can do is posit conjecture and educated speculation based on very tenuous foundations. After nearly a whole decade of dangling that carrot in front of fans, of course it is natural to have a sense of frustrated curiosity that has now matured to the point that it cannot be easily contained and forgotten about. Sadly, I highly doubt that Square will entertain the notion of properly sating our frustrated curiosity.
their not that tenuous if you actually pay attention to what i'm saying. all you're doing is trying to play devil's advocacy. Which would work on anyone else who hasn't done their research.
Like everyone, I would kill to know what the extent of Nomura's original vision was and what Tabata had to sacrifice to create a singular game out of what may have previously been planned as an "epic". I would like to know what Stella's role was that is now seemingly incompatible with the current direction of the story that they had to kill her, restructure her organs and a few bones, then reanimate the corpse with half a new name. I'd relish the chance to learn whether the whole spiel with premature aging due to the Lucis Crystal was always planned for King Regis, or whether this was another relatively recent change on the presumption that western markets would adore the sight of a more traditional fantasy-like badass old king instead of one who looks like a mob boss?
And yet...it doesn't seem like you do. at least as much as i do. i was expecting versus 13 (whether its name changed or not).
Speculating is fun. Trying to decipher the most probable of reasons for why X has happened can be enjoyable. Critically questioning what a director has said (e.g. "rather than having a more passive and weak heroine that needs to be saved, it would be much better to have a stronger and more determined female character") instead of swallowing it at face value is the sign of a thinking person...or a cynical one, depending on your viewpoint and how buried in the hype you are. But honestly, it will reach a point where it becomes altogether tiresome. The whole discussion will be/is already a circular one and we cover the same things over and over again with no good basis of fact. What we ultimately do is devolve into arguments about conjectural things with all the foundation to walk on as a cloud. It's why I'm going to space out from all FFXV discussions that are solely to do with retrospective speculation and just look at what is purportedly coming in the final game. Critically look at the game on its own merits rather than what it could have been.
Its not about enjoyment. its about getting to the bottom of the truth. And if you look into it, you'll know. You use devil's advocacy to question the side that is most reasonable. Again, you fail to answer me: Why should i question, Nomura's original vision if he was going to "lie" about it and deceive us? Keep in mind, if his was a highly experimental title (to the point that it wasn't even part of the FNC.

You keep trying to get away from this convo, but you dont answer the juicy questions. You want to justify "devil's advocacy". i'm fully prepared to discuss why i have a side.

It gets tiresome because ABSOLUTELY NO ONE got to the bottom of what i'm saying. No one looks into the piles and piles of evidence that the game is being rushed. I'm not buried by "hype". i'm buried by bemused, disappointment and seeing Final Fantasy XV take two step forwards, but taking one giant leap back. And i'm seeing it...i'm not like everyone else, i would wait an eternity if it meant keeping the integrity of the original vision, but at this point, everyone is DESPERATE. Even SE....if their pushing for a 2016 release but also have to do DLC to finish the game.

again....not everyone downloads DLC (whether its free or not, some people just dont do it, EVER) and i'm one of them.
 
Linnaete you have been avoiding everything, but you've done absolutely nothing to help support your point, you just repeat it. I would like you to at least back up your devil's advocacy with hard cold facts (and no, i'm not talking about "this is why we should just wait and see". I'm saying why i should give it a chance and buy it upon release).

Look at the facts: Major and i mean MAJOR changes have happened within a year. Tabata hasn't been the main director for that long, but within that small time, the changes have been drastic. its easy to say "who's to say" "how do we know" when we "CHOOSE" to ignore previous information.

Also look at the fact that Tabata is insistent on "teasing" Luna rather than giving her the big reveal that every character deserves. He keeps suggesting she's a major character, (which also makes me speculate how they were even able to successfully rewrite the entire plot with the areas of Stella). Giving us tidbits We're also waiting up on other key characters to be seen, or even the true crux of the story. At least when it started out as versus 13, we still had a clear vision. Now its hazy.

The game is also becoming closer and closer to Type-0's. The war-maps are resembling Type-0's. And now more talk of high-school life. The characters look closer to the archetypes.

And some people just can't accept Stella being removed altogether for Luna....and people have every reason to be worried. Things are happening left and right, and we dont see any recovery from it. We're not seeing any story, we're not seeing concrete ideas. All we are seeing is gameplay and whether luna will be a party member. (in which isn't so different if Stella was the reluctant antagonist to Noctis)
 
Oh dear. Versus had a clear vision? As far as what was publicly disclosed, it was just as, if not more, hazy in details than what we have now for FFXV. And yes, it was still part of Fabula Nova Crystallis. FFXIII, Versus XIII and Agito XIII were originally all FNC games, because they would serve to be different interpretations of a common invented mythology.

The most reasonable thing a person can say regarding this is that with Versus, you had good reason to believe it was Nomura's vision and his baby. With FFXV, you don't know anymore. It could be 75% Nomura's with the other quarter stuffed in by someone else. All the recent announced changes could well have been post-Nomura, but correlation does not imply causation. Just because a change was revealed now, under Tabata's directorship, does not necessarily mean it was "his" change. Nomura could well have given it his thumbs up, but they never chose to let us know until now. Think if the E3 2013 trailer never opened with Noctis and Stella as children. Think if we never knew that Nomura (in all likelihood) had planned for the pair to have been close acquaintances as children, and that they haven't just recently met the first time as adults. Apply that to Luna. I imagine someone would be pissed about how Noctis and Luna have been "changed" and were now childhood friends.

I think it was a magazine (Famitsu? Dengeki?) that hyped Luna up as a brand new character. Tabata and his marketing team just annoyingly never clearly communicated to fans what had happened to Stella in relation to Luna until maybe much, much later. That's the main charge I will hold his team for. It was a farcically awful job at communication and rather than letting the cat out of the bag quickly, they allowed the feverish fan speculation (ooh, are Stella and Luna sisters?) to twist and contort into new realms of fanfic imaginations, then fetter for a good while before they finally had the balls in one ATR to say Stella is gone. Would the backlash have been as great if people weren't jerked around with? Probably not.

You're wondering why the "true crux" of the story and additional characters aren't revealed yet? Would you be happy if I say that marketing is the most sensible and probable answer? The game is still a while away and general marketing hasn't even taken off from the whole Dawn trailers fiasco situation. What is there to gain from a marketing team's point of view if you shoot your load so early and risk giving people tsunamis' worth of spoilers when the game is still at least a year away from going gold? FFXV fans can remarkably piece together new obscure clues as they come, no matter how piecemeal they are. Give them a whole load of info to work with (and plenty of time) and you may as well have told the world your game's whole story. Good job. No need to play the game anymore. Let's buy Mass Effect: Andromeda instead!

I completely fail to see how I was playing devil's advocate. To play devil's advocate is to deliberately take on a contrarian position. I'm sure as heck not doing that, because I'm resting on what ought to be a common-sense point. What truth is there to get to the bottom of? What hard cold facts can I reasonably stumble across? This isn't some philosophical exercise. Unless you personally extract concrete information from someone at Square-Enix Japan yourself, you aren't suddenly going to come across some obfuscated truth that was just left unfound until now, because other people were not paying due attention. I certainly don't know - and will likely never actually know - what they think and how they think. Digging back a few years to pick up an extract with a few sentences from Nomura may be considered good enough authority to you, but it doesn't tell me much. Guy had a vision for a spinoff Final Fantasy and for whatever reason, it failed to materialise. That is the only reasonable truth we can conclude right now.

You're not some genius critic who is on a much higher intellectual level than the rest of us. You're just exceptionally jaded and quick to make absurd leap to conclusions on the basis of...barely anything. So because Tabata made a comment about flashbacks exploring the main characters' childhood pasts at some point (I believe this is what you were referring to), you immediately think it will be like Type-0 where everyone has their individual personalities shredded up and distilled only to the most basic of anime archetypes? You've had a go at me for supposedly not substantiating my words, so I'll fling it back at you and ask you to point to where I should look to come to the same conclusion as you have.

Just as absurd is this belief that if FFXV has all the time in the oven possible, maaaaaaaybe the "integrity of the original vision" (assuming it was a whole and coherent one, and not something that Nomura constantly changed on a regular basis and made thus made life hell for the team) would be kept. That isn't remotely how things work. If a single vision is too problematic to implement, it doesn't matter how much time you have. That square isn't going to fit into that circle. Things change all the time in production, from TV shows to stage plays. Original visions are unlikely to be kept. I believe I have made this point before, if not in this thread, then another one.

And I am out of this thread. I find it way too asinine for my liking now, sorry. I'm not interested in trying to convince you to buy it. There's no onus on me to do so. You are absolutely free to stick to your guns and not buy it at all based on your reasons.
 
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Razberry Knight

Completely understanding the truth behind the development of this game would be tantamount to understanding Square Enix's current business plan, and I sincerely doubt any of us will be getting any inside information on that any time soon. You've said yourself, the game was reestablished as FFXV so it would sell better. It stands to reason then that many of their current decisions are being driven by business and money issues. The PR spins are just to keep us focused on the game lest we forget, everything else is geared towards finishing this game as quickly as possible while taking the easiest roads that guarantee worldwide appeal.

Square Enix are not just there to create games that their older fans will love and cherish, they're also there to make money, so it's very apparent why so much of FFXV's production doesn't make sense to us.

In regards to your personal refusal to buy the game, it's evident that in switching the title over as a main series game, Square Enix lost fans with like-minded thinking with yourself. Obvious business decision, obvious business risk. Perhaps they deemed the sacrifice of such fans as yourself necessary to gain the global appeal for the sake of survival for the project if not their bottom line. Who knows. Point I'm making is that, if this is the reason, then we're never getting a straight answer. The fact that we're not getting straight answers does make me speculate that the business theory may be somewhat correct.

You've already accepted this idea in your opening post but what you didn't consider is that the company needs to make money with the game, so global appeal will pretty much trump over select fan opinions any day. So no, the "real truth" probably will never see the light of day since it's probably more to do with the business end of things and less to do with Tabata playing a strip tease with the fans showcasing his new girl Luna. That's the symptom.

FFXV's production is down to time and money, neither of which are in abundant supply for the project. Things get sacrificed, things get change to quickly make them fit. It's all a juggling act. If you find the results less than amazing, then personally I believe that's fair enough, although I would wait and see before making my final decision at the checkout.
 
Oh dear. Versus had a clear vision? As far as what was publicly disclosed, it was just as, if not more, hazy in details than what we have now for FFXV. And yes, it was still part of Fabula Nova Crystallis. FFXIII, Versus XIII and Agito XIII were originally all FNC games, because they would serve to be different interpretations of a common invented mythology.
They still are technically but dropped the "13" in the title as Type-0 was getting farther and farther away from FNC.
The most reasonable thing a person can say regarding this is that with Versus, you had good reason to believe it was Nomura's vision and his baby. With FFXV, you don't know anymore. It could be 75% Nomura's with the other quarter stuffed in by someone else. All the recent announced changes could well have been post-Nomura, but correlation does not imply causation. Just because a change was revealed now, under Tabata's directorship, does not necessarily mean it was "his" change. Nomura could well have given it his thumbs up, but they never chose to let us know until now. Think if the E3 2013 trailer never opened with Noctis and Stella as children. Think if we never knew that Nomura (in all likelihood) had planned for the pair to have been close acquaintances as children, and that they haven't just recently met the first time as adults. Apply that to Luna. I imagine someone would be pissed about how Noctis and Luna have been "changed" and were now childhood friends.
The thing is, Tabata's main reasoning behind the drastic changes was that he was constantly going to Nojima (writer) to make sense of the story until Nojima gave the thumbs up to make changes. Notice that NOmura is nowhere near this. Even then Nojima is the only one who is free to comment saying that he is looking forward to it as if it was his baby. Which make it seem like its his baby more than o(but knowing the relationship between director and writer in films, and a little on gameplay, the vision is still the directors).

Nomura has not made a single comment on it. In fact, it would deem bearable if it was. Square would be smart to allow the original director to make comments about it, especially if he approves....but he hasn't. And there's plenty of room. Heck, if Nomura said he designed Luna herself, you think how unnecessary this argument would be? You think that i'd still be talking about this so feverishly?
I think it was a magazine (Famitsu? Dengeki?) that hyped Luna up as a brand new character. Tabata and his marketing team just annoyingly never clearly communicated to fans what had happened to Stella in relation to Luna until maybe much, much later. That's the main charge I will hold his team for. It was a farcically awful job at communication and rather than letting the cat out of the bag quickly, they allowed the feverish fan speculation (ooh, are Stella and Luna sisters?) to twist and contort into new realms of fanfic imaginations, then fetter for a good while before they finally had the balls in one ATR to say Stella is gone. Would the backlash have been as great if people weren't jerked around with? Probably not.
This also suggest the timeline that they would like us to believe and the timeline that is actually occurring is completely different. But Luna was hyped because Stella was hyped. They didn't see Stella, all they were seeing was Luna.
You're wondering why the "true crux" of the story and additional characters aren't revealed yet? Would you be happy if I say that marketing is the most sensible and probable answer? The game is still a while away and general marketing hasn't even taken off from the whole Dawn trailers fiasco situation. What is there to gain from a marketing team's point of view if you shoot your load so early and risk giving people tsunamis' worth of spoilers when the game is still at least a year away from going gold? FFXV fans can remarkably piece together new obscure clues as they come, no matter how piecemeal they are. Give them a whole load of info to work with (and plenty of time) and you may as well have told the world your game's whole story. Good job. No need to play the game anymore. Let's buy Mass Effect: Andromeda instead!
The Dawn fiasco should've never happened in the first place! Trying to recover from the Dawn fiasco is making up time to advertise more. And yet, they had given absolutely nothing story-wise. SE has told us the crux of the main story before. Look at Type-0? they gave large hints. But also, we still have nothing. not evena proper beginning, or any dialogue from the villain. Even if fans piece it together, its not a problem. People still buy it. so long as they dont overdo it with showing us the ending, thats fine. in fact, its those final scenes that make it worth while even if we got the main story through trailers.
I completely fail to see how I was playing devil's advocate. To play devil's advocate is to deliberately take on a contrarian position. I'm sure as heck not doing that, because I'm resting on what ought to be a common-sense point.
Devil's advocacy works in many ways, but its generally the act of looking for the third-option or second-option that doesn't necessarily tied to the other two side's values. SO if i'm A because this, and Lunafreya is B because of that, you are providing "C" because of what we dont know or what could change. its not all concrete.
What truth is there to get to the bottom of? What hard cold facts can I reasonably stumble across? This isn't some philosophical exercise. Unless you personally extract concrete information from someone at Square-Enix Japan yourself, you aren't suddenly going to come across some obfuscated truth that was just left unfound until now, because other people were not paying due attention.
And yet....i dont need to gain new information to see what is going on. You make it sound like i need the inside scoop on SE...but its SE's business practice, the fact that they have admitted to their mistake about it too that makes it too easy they have disregarded more.
I certainly don't know - and will likely never actually know - what they think and how they think. Digging back a few years to pick up an extract with a few sentences from Nomura may be considered good enough authority to you, but it doesn't tell me much. Guy had a vision for a spinoff Final Fantasy and for whatever reason, it failed to materialise. That is the only reasonable truth we can conclude right now.
Which again, you lack the core of the main points you ignore/avoid. This is where devil's advocacy comes in, this is the contrarian position that you hold. Because you make it sound like i shouldn't have taken Nomura's word as god. And i'm only saying that sarcastically. the reality was i was invested in the game, and the creator was the only source for the information. And why wouldn't he be considered the best source? Why should i believe that he was dishonest about his own vision when he had so much to say?

People were excited about FFversus13 for a REASON.
You're not some genius critic who is on a much higher intellectual level than the rest of us. You're just exceptionally jaded and quick to make absurd leap to conclusions on the basis of...barely anything.
Its easy to say that....but like i said, i've been following the information flow....and unless you have anything else to say about how i've been misreading the information. It is you who only sits in the reality of "i dont know".

i ask you, what exactly has been so absurd and so ridiculous? like i said, i've been following the information longer than any of you. and i say that CONFIDENTLY because everyone acts like they've forgotten about the old information. Even @Lunafreya Nox Flueret has forgotten about it. She's been taking it all at face value and seeing the information, but didn't dig deep enough. She saw her answer and claimed it as the truth. You are trying to sue the idea that we could be getting the truth, we could not be getting the truth.


What makes me so different? i'm analysing and thinking for myself and finding the truth in what they've been saying. It may not be "the" truth, but if its true enough to be highly possible, why fight it. We're talking about a game that has been in development for longer than any of us could remember. This was around the end of the ps2 era...

But here is the bigger reality, you're not thinking....heck, most of my issues so far is about lack of trust, lack of information, but i back them up from what everything has happened. which you failed to understand. You come back and say the exact same premise, but dont actually back it up with what we do know. in fact, you tend to make it seem like all we know is this.

You have a different stance, you're indifferent, and because of that you're not really going to try to look for more information to support your idea, its just easy to say "this is all we know" and leave it at that.
So because Tabata made a comment about flashbacks exploring the main characters' childhood pasts at some point (I believe this is what you were referring to), you immediately think it will be like Type-0 where everyone has their individual personalities shredded up and distilled only to the most basic of anime archetypes? You've had a go at me for supposedly not substantiating my words, so I'll fling it back at you and ask you to point to where I should look to come to the same conclusion as you have.

First off, no, that was against Luna's background against Stella's. Stella played a mysterious, first encounter role. But now Luna plays the familiar, we knew eachother since kids role. And she also plays the role of an arranged marriage. the fact that their childhood friends, and made a promise to each other) and arranged to be married is an extreme archetype.

Second, what i do see getting closer to Type-0's style is

A) the historical design and maps when it came to the war.
B) The character designs seem more fitting for Type-0 (Luna, Regis)
C) Tabata intending to add Highschool life into the mix.
Just as absurd is this belief that if FFXV has all the time in the oven possible, maaaaaaaybe the "integrity of the original vision" (assuming it was a whole and coherent one, and not something that Nomura constantly changed on a regular basis and made thus made life hell for the team) would be kept. That isn't remotely how things work. If a single vision is too problematic to implement, it doesn't matter how much time you have. That square isn't going to fit into that circle. Things change all the time in production, from TV shows to stage plays. Original visions are unlikely to be kept. I believe I have made this point before, if not in this thread, then another one.
And i think you should know, regardless if visions change, who is the one who gets to decide that change? That's what matters most. The original one who envisioned something only refines it. And when we hear things that Tabata "didn't get it". It makes you wonder, especially when he retaliates with a completely different answer and instead says the original character was weak and passive.

Sure, we can all assume Nomura constantly changed on a regular basis, but considering he's been so quiet about it, SE wouldn't let him speak about it (which was confirmed by him) in multiple occasions before the ps4 came out. I'm just reluctant to believe it. I do know that all the games he "wanted" to make, are being made on a whim. Games such as "Kingdom Hearts 2.8: Final Chapter Prologue" just so he can get kh3D on HD along with finally telling the story of BBS vol.2

Then of course FF7, keep in mind, director is an important role, but its the best role to be in when having multiple projects. So the change for him to shift away may have been reasonable, but he was achieving a lot. even when he was in ff15. But like i said, i doubt he was still in the project for that long, if he was, we would've gotten confirmation a while back.
And I am out of this thread. I find it way too asinine for my liking now, sorry. I'm not interested in trying to convince you to buy it. There's no onus on me to do so. You are absolutely free to stick to your guns and not buy it at all based on your reasons.
If you leave, just know you left with a mountain of unanswered questions from me. You sticked to your guns, and it was a bunch of hypothetical scenarios.

The conversation is indeed asinine, but i'm not here to say because of you or me. Its because the same crap is being said, and nothing solid is being countered. I have legitimate questions to see why you see it that way, or what do you have that proves yours is behind the bigger reasoning. Because to me, its not about "common sense". if that were it, common sense would say stay away from ff15 at this point.
 
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