Religion in FFVII

The Witch

I myself am strange and unusual
Veteran
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Messages
7,248
Gil
1
Rinoa Heartilly
Squall Leonhart
Tifa Lockhart
Jenova
Moogle
Cactuar
So I recently replayed the game and lo and behold, Johnny's cousin says this out side of Tifa's bar when Cloud startles him:

Johnny's Cousin: Oh Jesus!! What the hell's wrong tonight!!
I thought that long blackout was strange.
They say a Mako Reactor was destroyed above.
I was jes sittin' here drinkin', watchin' the news by myself.
'n' all of a sudden I get kicked outta the &*%$ store. What's up with that!?
I wasn't even done with my drink. I didn't even pay my bill...


It's safe to say he's not saying Jesús :wacky:

and also;

tumblr_nfmpa5YKgN1shabu3o2_1280.jpg


With the combined Gospel and other evidence, I think it's safe to assume the FFVII world's religion is the same as ours because Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, and Islam are all present. The only thing that is left out is Scientology, and honestly, that is not a religion, no matter how much I love Tom Cruise. :damon:

But I am still seeing people on another forum deny VII's religious aspect and it is rather shocking. :hmmm: I was told the only way to prove religions existed in the game was if names were dropped and now they're saying names aren't good enough.

Why is it so off-putting to see religion exists in FF? :hmmm: To think people would be like 'lol, a fantasy in a game about fantasies.. IRON-YYYY' but now it's just... ugh, moving the end-zone. Anyway, discuss this revelation.

queen-e.gif
 
Last edited:
[whispers] Let us also not forget the messianic metaphors with Aerith and her death cause that is my favorite thing in the whole entire world right now. And also I think Cloud could also be seen in a prophet/messiah light as well with the way he defeats Sephiroth and is "redeemed" (though it's more of redeeming himself to himself) in Advent Children.
 
I don't think the creators were thinking holistically when they created the FF world. There's bound to be imagery and symbolism they didn't mean to integrate into the game, religious themes being an obvious example.
 
That's probably true, but I was just watching the end of Advent Children and there is definitely messianic imagery and parallels with Cloud. He wakes up with a bunch of children's hands on him and he pours water over Denzel's head, curing him of geostigma and everyone seems to want to be "cured" by him afterwards. It seems really religious to me and I think that's very cool. Though, this is coming from someone who is obsessed with religious imagery and subtext, so it could just be me :p
 
I think you're right about Aeris as a deliberate Messianic figure. Her role as a sacrificial lamb to save the world is clearly religiously inspired.
 
If a person believes in it, it can be a religion to them (referring to Scientology) as mental as it gets. I personally don't even want to be labelled under atheist anymore because I don't know if there's anything out there, and I quite frankly don't care. However why does it need to be such a big deal if it's in a Final Fantasy game?

There's trees in some Final Fantasy games, another real life - every day object, why don't people make a fuss about that? I don't think it's the end of the world if there's some hints about religion in there, if some characters are religious, I mean why the hell not? If it gives them more character and it fits their character (for example like Aerith/Aeris) what's the big deal?

People bashing on it just do it to bash, like they do with everything else. :lew:
 
I personally don't even want to be labelled under atheist anymore because I don't know if there's anything out there, and I quite frankly don't care.

An atheist is someone who simply fails to believe and does not to subscribe to a set of theistic beliefs and their particular deities. If you don't believe in a God, you are by definition an atheist. ;)

I am only of the mind that the creators simply thought it was a nice design choice to insert heavy religious imagery into the game. I don't genuinely think they deliberately and uniquely did so with the prime intention of "having" Christianity in Gaia.
 
An atheist is someone who simply fails to believe and does not to subscribe to a set of theistic beliefs and their particular deities. If you don't believe in a God, you are by definition an atheist. ;)

I am only of the mind that the creators simply thought it was a nice design choice to insert heavy religious imagery into the game. I don't genuinely think they deliberately and uniquely did so with the prime intention of "having" Christianity in Gaia.

I know the definition. What I was saying is that I don't care to be labelled and people make a big deal out of it. Same goes for the FF series, so what if there is religion in there, why do people need to bash it? They're just bored, I guess.
 
I don't think they deliberately put in messianic imagery and whatnot, I think that it's just something really cool to think about, even if it wasn't done intentionally (though, now that I think about it more, there's way too much in there for it to have been an accident).
 
I don't think it was on accident either. Saying 'Jesus' 'Gospel' and 'Satan' are pretty straight forward. They cease to be 'symbolic' when the references are literally linked by names. If it was 'Jesse Christ' and 'Satanana' and the 'Gosspels', that would be symbolic. But Christ and specific religions are actually mentioned by names--that is more than just 'symbolisms'. :hmmm:

I don't genuinely think they deliberately and uniquely did so with the prime intention of "having" Christianity in Gaia.
Jesus Christ is a direct reference to Christianity, can't have Christ without Christianity. So why is the mention of the great Gospel, Satan, and now Jesus not enough to prove this religion (and more) exist in the realm of 'Gaia'? How else could the creators include RL religion if not byr dropping names (like Jesus & Satan)? :hmmm:
 
Yeah, I wish they'd done it more like they did with Aerith and Cloud. Like there are definitive prophetic and messianic metaphors, parallels, and imagery with them, but I agree. This is definitely not on accident. I feel like - going in the same vein as Aerith and Cloud being prophets/messiahs - the rest of AVALANCHE could be seen as disciples and Tifa could be seen as the acolyte who is in love with the prophet, but he loves his mission/duty (Aerith) more than her and that's hard for her to accept (I didn't mean to make this shippy, but I feel like that is a big part of prophets/messiahs and fits in this case).
 
I sometimes flirt with the idea of Cloud/Aerith being religious symbolisms themselves, but after discovering Jesus existed in the game's story, that makes me doubt that. I understand Aerith has her imagery, and Cloud has his--but I don't think they were ever to be seen as 'prophets' or 'messiahs' themselves. I always felt that they were to embody the meaning of religion. For instance, love and selflessness is found in Aerith, while redemption and rebirth is found in Cloud. Those are all very religious themes, but I don't think it's to show that Cloud or Aerith are on the level of an actual RL messiah or something. I mean, I've seen people say that Aerith is suppose to be like aslan from the lion the witch and the wardrobe (who was suppose to be Jesus Christ) but I don't think Aerith was suppose to fill that sort of role. I mean, how can she be a symbolism for Jesus when Jesus himself actually exists in the canon-story?
 
Yeah, I agree with that. I don't think they were meant to be seen as messiahs or prophets, but there is a lot of imagery and symbolism of porphets/messiahs with them. I think it's really interesting that Jesus shows up within the game. I find that very interesting and I wonder why they did that because that's usually seen as taboo.
 
I think there is without doubt, hints of the different religions, and of course enough references to prove that there is some sort of connection--unintentional or not-- it's still in the game... that cannot be denied. To say that there isn't, is people being arrogant and they just want to start arguments. We can't possibly just 'pretend' it's not there. I like the fact that there's diversity and real life references throughout FFVII. I think it brings out the game even more, than it's already out. I mean, it is a fantasy game it only makes sense to include that element. It doesn't do any damage or harm to the player... ya know? Those that bash the game for it, are just those types of people. They live in their own fantasy. :lew:
 
I'm glad you agree! :D I think the religious references in Final Fantasy VII are spectacular, especially (obviously), the references to Aerith and Cloud being prophets/messiahs. Maybe I'm the only one who thinks that they're supposed to be prophets/messiahs, but I really love the idea of it. And I really love the idea of two prophets/messiahs being in love. It's a very interesting dynamic. :)
 
I'm glad you agree! :D I think the religious references in Final Fantasy VII are spectacular, especially (obviously), the references to Aerith and Cloud being prophets/messiahs. Maybe I'm the only one who thinks that they're supposed to be prophets/messiahs, but I really love the idea of it. And I really love the idea of two prophets/messiahs being in love. It's a very interesting dynamic. :)

Without a doubt. I believe that they may have done that on purpose, in order to bring topic about Cloud and Aerith. They want you to connect the pieces together between Aerith and Cloud, to speculate whether or not they have a religious symbol behind them as characters. Now that I think about it, Aerith is also Cloud's spiritual guide in the movie, Advent Children. Maybe they included that sort of as a reference to the reappearance of Jesus? or maybe, she'a just a ghost? o.o I have no idea and I can't be for sure certain.
 
I hold a similar opinion to Olivia here:

I am only of the mind that the creators simply thought it was a nice design choice to insert heavy religious imagery into the game. I don't genuinely think they deliberately and uniquely did so with the prime intention of "having" Christianity in Gaia.

I see that there are religious associations, and there are a number of religious symbols, but ultimately it seems that religion isn’t necessarily something which is expanded on in FFVII. Religion is important for the themes of FFVII, but less so for the culture of the inhabitants of the planet.

Sephiroth is named for the Kabbalistic Sephirot (the attributes through which God can project himself, etc). Jenova is essentially a portmanteau of Jehovah and Nova (so meaning ‘New God’).

On top of this there are many Nordic associations where Midgar is concerned. The Midgar Zolom is essentially the Midgard Serpent. Midgar itself is Midgard (the realm of mortal man, or Middle Earth). Midgar is the most important city in the FFVII universe, and it is so very clear that mankind (or a certain company) is ruling the world.

Wutai is a mixture of Asian cultures, explaining the use of the Buddha.

The Temple of the Ancients is mostly Egyptian (but mixed in with a bit of Aztec or South / Central American native cultures). This is because they wanted a wondrous temple with a suggestion of deep antiquity. (There's also a carved dinosaur relief on one of the walls of the temple, so perhaps they believed in Raptor-Jesus, or perhaps not - it's oddly placed, but likely is placed there to suggest that dinosaurs roamed the planet at the same time as the Cetra, therefore the Cetra were a long time ago).

Sometimes the references seem to be because they didn’t think it through or decide to create their own religion (as they would later do for some other FF games since, such as for the religion of Yevon in FFX). Religion doesn’t seem to be a big part of the FFVII planet’s mythos. The only church in the game (that I'm aware of) is a ruin. Aerith appears to be the only person who still visits the church, and this is unsurprising since she is designed to be a saintly, martyrous figure. I think there is something very Jesusy or Aslany with Aerith.

The invocation of Jesus is just an ejaculation of surprise. ‘Zounds!’ or ‘By Jove!’ could easily replace that word. Not many people say ‘By Jove!’ today. It was once a popular cry long, long after people stopped worshipping Jupiter / Jove. Instead of calling upon Jupiter in actuality it was a euphemism, as it might be improper or considered insulting to call upon Jesus or God.

But today many people cry out ‘Jesus!’, and so it seems reasonable to use it for this game too. It’s how people like Johnny’s Cousin might talk. His usage of Jesus is similar to his use of Hell in the next sentence. He’s expressing surprise more than he is calling on the infernal realm of Hell. The creators of the game (or the translators of the game into English) have used these words because they are words that humans use on our planet, and as players people will understand the emotion that is being expressed instantly. It would perhaps have been more clever to create an FFVII-relevant invocation but then they'd have to explain an entire mythology to the player which they may not have wanted to spend time doing.

The FFVII world is well thought out in some respects, but less so in others. It seems as if our world has been put into a blender, and then some aspects utilised for some reason or another. It doesn't mean that the things that are used are transferred directly, but merely the idea of them. The Arthurian Knights of the Round Table didn't one day get warped into the FFVII dimension and start ganging up on random enemies in a 5 minute long animation sequence. Instead, the Knights of the Round Table are honoured with a reference and are drawn from for the game. Final Fantasy's creators make their own thing with the source material, rather than pluck them straight from our world.

I don’t have issues with religious imagery in the game (it makes it quite interesting), and I do not have issues with actual practiced religion being in FFVII, if it is there. But in these cases, they appear to be used only very, very loosely. The existence of Christ (who never took up space-travel in surviving gospels – unless new ones non-canonised have been found in the deserts somewhere recently) in a world likely billions of light-years from our own planet is puzzling. Did FFVII then have its own ‘Jesus’? Did another Jesus on another planet go through similar things to Earth-Jesus? The FF creators have not thought this through. Instead they appear to have made use of a popular RPG trope in placing a church in an area where they wanted to suggest sanctity, purity, and holiness. A place associated solely with Aerith.
 
I agree that Christianity is probably not supposed to be the main religion within the Final Fantasy VII world, but you really can't ignore the parallels between Christianity and the religion that is portrayed in the Final Fantasy VII universe.

Aerith seems to definitely be portrayed as a religious figure or guide (as Ed Elric said). I don't think that's how she was portrayed in Crisis Core or even intended to be portrayed in that game, but her appearance and how she is portrayed in VII throughout the game makes it seem like that was definitely the angle the creators were going for.

First of all (also as Ed Elric said), she appears for the first time in a church where she is growing flowers that she sells in the slums of Sector 7. I particularly associate the flowers with prophetic figures (as well as the church, obviously) because in Christianity, there is a religious phenomenon called stigmata (where someone who is particularly in love with Christ [for lack of a better term] receives the wounds of Christ, which shows God's/Christ's love/favor for them) and the wounds are said to smell of flowers (called the Purity of Essence) and so I associate the flowers with that. Also, the flowers are gold and white, which also (if we're going to read into everything) could be seen as clouds and sunlight and heaven is meant to be above us (in the clouds and sunshine) and could refer to that. And, of course, Aerith is always seen praying (before Zack's death in Crisis Core, before her own death in VII, and I think even the way she folds her hands at the beginning of VII could be seen as praying). Also, the fact she is the last Cetra, definitely could be seen as some sort of religious context. The last or only of anything tend to be seen as special and religious in any light, Christian or otherwise.

Next, the way she dies is very symbolic of religion. Many people say she didn't know she was going to die, but the more I think about it, the more I think that wasn't entirely true. She kneels and prays and then when Sephiroth flies out of the air to kill her, she doesn't do anything. She stays there. Her death also saves the world, which tends to be something that happens a lot within Christianity and religious context (particularly with saints and other prophets; they die in a horrible way and then their death saves the people of the earth). Also, the way Cloud puts her to rest in that lake within the Forgotten City seemed very religious to me. She has her hands folded on her chest, a smile of serenity and peace on her face, and she floats gently down to the bottom of the lake.

Third, from everything that I've heard and seen within the Final Fantasy VII universe, it looked like Aerith was going to eventually be resurrected. Now, I know here I'm reading way too much into things, but there are three major games that were made after VII (Crisis Core, Dirge of Cerberus, and Advent Children [though that's not a game]) and after Christ died, there were three days before his resurrection. I don't know if we're ever going to get another compilation for the VII universe, but if we do maybe Aerith will appear - alive - in the next one. Anyway, my point is that death after saving the world and resurrection are both things that tend to happen with prophets/saints.

Finally, all throughout Advent Children, after her death, Aerith seems to be Cloud's 'spirit guide'. She appears to him in a field of flowers in a World of Pure White (I can't remember if that's how it's described in any of the compilations or novellas or anything, but I feel like I heard that term somewhere to describe his world with Aerith at one point) and I think that is supposed to be a reference to Aerith being in heaven (or an in between world, since the field closely resembles her church of flowers) and rejoining Cloud to help him and guide him through his journey in Advent Children. Also, her water coming from her church is what cures everyone of geostigma (and Cloud first) at the end of the film. This could be an allusion to holy water curing someone of demonic possession (which is sort of how Vincent describes it after the battle in the Forgotten City: "It's a symptom of alien matter infecting the body. The body tries to eliminate it and overcompensates."), though, in this case, since it is what Cloud is talking about throughout the film, it could be her symbol of forgiveness and curing someone of their sins. Also, if she were never going to be resurrected, the way she exits the film (by going through a door into a white light) could be an allusion to her saying she's finally at peace because Cloud is now, too, and is able to move into the next realm of "death" (by finally going to heaven?)

Now, as for Cloud, he doesn't seem to be a prophet or messiah in any regard until Advent Children and, even then, not until the end. The way Tifa says that he has to fight Sephiroth alone because it's his fight and he seems to be the only one who has found the 'right' will to fight again could be seen as prophetic. Also the way Cloud says, "There isn't a thing I don't cherish" when Sephiroth asks him what he cherishes so he can take it away, could also be seen as something a prophet would say, since prophets are out to take care of and cherish the world. Then, of course, there is the way that he is sent back to life when he nearly dies after defeating Sephiroth. When he wakes up, he has the hands of a bunch of children on him and is lying in the water in Aerith's church (all could be seen as an allegory to the baptism of Christ). After he wakes up, he cures Denzel by pouring water over his head (another allegory to baptism) and afterwards, all the other people around the pool of water jump in wanting to be cured by him too (an allegory to the disciples of Christ[?]).

In a way, I guess Zack could be seen as a prophet with the way he dies and then dubs Cloud his "living legacy", but I don't know as much about Zack, so I can't make a bigger argument for him.

That's all I've got for now, but I'm sure I'll come up with more I can add on later.
 
Hate to be the one to point out that the only difference between Scientology and the rest is just numbers of followers. I know it really feels like there's some big difference. That's just cultural programming. Similar to how you tend to think whatever your country's currency is has real intrinsic value when you hold some money. But when you go abroad the money's just different and you don't feel its value. Same thing. Just your brain tricking you.
 
Back
Top