What are the "true" hang ups of 12.

you keep repeating the same thing...over..and over....
the majority of what you're saying is "i think outside the box" and "this is about the hang ups"

now yes, this is about hang ups, but the "true" hang ups. a game about perspective about what people claim with what there actually is.

Its more of a "yes, this game isn't perfect, but lets be honest about it".

and again..the IP really didn't change.
 
FFXII acting like a 'simulator' is simply false criticism.

I found the gambit system to be ingenious- you can do anything with it.

I have three different profiles with three different gambit systems. The game is sweet, I loved the hell out of building a team from the ground up. It's like Final Fantasy meets Elder Scrolls.

But F*(^ me right? What do I know, being a FFXII apologetic.
 
I don't believe a real FF fan really hates any FF.

I hate FF8 with the burning passion of a thousand suns.

now yes, this is about hang ups, but the "true" hang ups. a game about perspective about what people claim with what there actually is.

Its more of a "yes, this game isn't perfect, but lets be honest about it".

The problem is that your definition of "true hang ups" can vary wildly from what other people consider "true hang ups." Personally, I like XII's deviance from the standard "something happens, then something happens, then love story, then we have to save the world" Final Fantasy trope. But I can understand why people who were expecting a rank and file FF would be less than satisfied with XII's political storyline. So while I wouldn't consider it a hangup, those others might. Because of that, it would be easy for me to dismiss it out of hand as not a "true" hangup.
 
I hate FF8 with the burning passion of a thousand suns.



The problem is that your definition of "true hang ups" can vary wildly from what other people consider "true hang ups." Personally, I like XII's deviance from the standard "something happens, then something happens, then love story, then we have to save the world" Final Fantasy trope. But I can understand why people who were expecting a rank and file FF would be less than satisfied with XII's political storyline. So while I wouldn't consider it a hangup, those others might. Because of that, it would be easy for me to dismiss it out of hand as not a "true" hangup.


the idea is to put perspective with the more "common" hang ups. not just mention every single hang up you personally have.

i mean i think this game allows room to have any personal hang ups.
 
I hate FF8 with the burning passion of a thousand suns.

The sun doesn't burn, it radiates.
Unnecessary factgasm :wacky:



Anyway, I don't know if this counts as a 'hangup', but it certainly is worth mentioning because it can be extremely annoying.
Boss battles are notorious in FFXII for getting exponentially harder as they progress.

For example, the 'blizzajas', 'firajas', and so on get stronger and stronger each time they are used, and are used at key amounts of HP the enemy has left. Their speed, defense, and attack skyrockets when they get critically weak, which can many of times seem just downright unreasonable.
The first time one painfully realizes this is when fighting Vossler. When he gets down to a couple inches of HP it's like what the phuck™.
 
That's the point of a boss battle. They're not supposed to be easy. They are supposed to prove to be a challenge for the player. Making the bosses hit harder as they have fewer HP should not be a new concept.

Yeah, but not going from difficult to one step to invincible near the end of the battle. I mean that's cool if it's unique to an enemy or two, but all the hunts and most of the bosses resemble just that, and it gets redundant, especially if the enemy is already quite challenging anyway.

The last tiny bit of their HP bar should not be commensurate to an entire bar. That's basically my pet peeve.
 
FInal Fantasy Dimensions and FInal Fantasy IV had the exact same problem. ff7 and 9 also had some fair boss battles, with sephiroth still being one of the longest battles i had.
 
Anyway, I don't know if this counts as a 'hangup', but it certainly is worth mentioning because it can be extremely annoying.
Boss battles are notorious in FFXII for getting exponentially harder as they progress.

For example, the 'blizzajas', 'firajas', and so on get stronger and stronger each time they are used, and are used at key amounts of HP the enemy has left. Their speed, defense, and attack skyrockets when they get critically weak, which can many of times seem just downright unreasonable.
The first time one painfully realizes this is when fighting Vossler. When he gets down to a couple inches of HP it's like what the phuck™.

Wow. I have never realised that this happens in any of my playthroughs. I'm sure next time I play it I'll notice straight away not that I know about it though.
 
Personally I loved it, it was a bold step forward and didn't disappoint. I'd played 7 as a kid and was hooked from then but XII is one of the greatest titles of the series. Most people seem to hate it purely because it isn't FF(favourite one here) but that was the whole point. X was a big step away from the PS1 generation and XII made more progress.
If used correctly the gambit system does allow great customisation and requires a bit of thought, tinkering with it and trying to work out what the local enemies weak points are and how to beat them was a good battle system.
Vaan wasn't the main character, he wasn't supposed to be. He was a kid who wanted adventure and got caught up in one, if he'd try to be the leader in a gang that includes experienced sky pirates and soldiers it would be a very short game. Balthier even announced announced that he was the leading man. But since no jobs were assigned you were free to create the characters your way
 
I'll be honest, I absolutely adore XII. I mean, there are things I'd change - I think the battle system is awkward as all get out, and they could have done with making it either purely turn-based or purely hack-and-slash. I don't think it's nearly as bad as XIII's battle system, which is just unspeakably dull, but it definitely could have used some tightening up, and while the gambits helped, they're not a cure-all. I also agree that Vaan is pretty pointless to the story.

But the political narrative is beautifully well-done, and XII is a breath of fresh air from other final fantasy games, both in terms of atmosphere and setting, and in terms of having quite a deep story of political intrigue, that's almost Shakespearian in nature. It will always be my favourite FF game for that - unless, I mean, one I like more comes along. Obviously.
 
I really feel Vaan wasn't 100% pointless. he was relevant in more than one occasion and his motives were enough to be fullfilled. There are two major issues that Vaan has that makes him relevant.

1) The way he sees he's brother the same way Ashe sees her fiancee. And when he can't see his brother anymore, he helps Ashe move on.

2) His own battle with avenging his brother. The discovery of Gabranth being his brother's killer. granted, it wasn't as direct and it could've been used more throughout the story. But it was established nonetheless. it shows that Vaan was at least relevant as a character.


and if you think about it, in most JRPGs, once a character is established (it can be for the dumbest things really, such as yuffie), even if they lose their relevancy, its not like they'll disappear.

I think Penelo was far worst than Vaan. she sort of hangs around, never does anything relevant. and sometimes it seems like she has mood swings. Over all, i never felt like she was established other than having a relationship with Vaan.
 
I agree that Vaan is irrelevant, but I disagree about Penelo - Penelo feels more irrelevant than she is, I think, because a lot of her role (the 'outsider', who isn't a part of the political intrigue, who can have things explained to her in the audience's stead, who presents a simpler view of events) was cut away from her and clumsily grafted onto Vaan.

I feel like cutting Vaan out altogether would have improved Penelo's character vastly. Penelo has suffered losses because of the empire too. Penelo makes a much better parallel for Ashe. Penelo is the one who, in game, forges a fairly solid friendship with Larsa. Penelo is just a better character than Vaan, and I feel like Vaan took a lot away from her, when we know he was only introduced because Square thought an older protagonist wouldn't sell as well.
 
there really wasn't much from penelo at all. the only thing she had was able to narrate the ending, but that was it.

I doubt cutting Vaan out would've served any good. You give Vaan so little credit that you're exagerrating Penelo's good points (when she had nothing to offer storywise)
 
My main dislikes of XII was the gambit system and poor character development among the main party. Also i felt the game was made to be more like a MMORPG without being an MMORPG which is no good for me as im not keen on them games.
 
i believe gambit is great when you use them more as an assist. still, i like them very much and puts things alot more strategic and still offering a level of tactics.

Character development, i might agree....but when you look at it....FF12 looks like its saying "we're not about character development" even though it did have some. i think the game would've been better if Vaan took the role of a main or at least supporting character rather than the being a spectator.
 
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