what could've made all these games salvagable

Razberry Knight

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here's alist of what could've made Final Fantasy XIII, and XIII-2, generally good games (i will add Lightning Returns once i played it from beginning to end).

for XIII:

A) there's a good way to make Linear work (even in Final Fantasy) and that is optional cutscenes, optional long-term quests, optional side-tracking all within the linearity. and the way to do is allow more paths along the way. Crisis Core did this by allowing you to side-step and help someone else temporarily, and this would unlock more missions or another step to getting those missions or reward. But with this in mind, the game would've had to be set up for newgame+.

Personally in-game rewards beat Xbox/ps3 rewards. So add more rewards to doing the trivial stuff, if you allow it. but ultimately, i will say that a true-open world should've been at least an option that wasy to see (by showing us a map). But no...theres so much issues.

B) Better leveling up system. Now the crystarium looks pretty and all, and gives you the illusion of choosing your own path of leveling, but its still ends the same way and you just unlock the same thing: eidolon special attack. If square enix wanted to really make it customized to how we wanted, he would've given us more definitive options. Such as, if we decided to make Lightning more of a ravager type, and there was a way to make it so Lightning is a ravager in the crystarium but also permanently locking out medic. we would see a ravager special attack, but if the crystarium had a medic-focused layout the eidolon attack would be more to heal the group.

C) Gameplay, gameplay, gameplay. the gameplay is so bad...and theres so many ways to fix it. I personally blame the layout in this game. its so difficult to see with such a thin ATB bar, and keeping track of your MP just doesn't look as simple or clear as it did back in the older games.

but what i personally find bad is the gimmicks....every FF game has a gimmick that compliments the ATB battle....here...the gimmick was controlling one character, and controlling the others through paradigms. now there's soooooo many reasons why this is an issue, and one of the obvious ones (so obvious i forget to even bring it up) is that Paradigms have a set of commands. so this means that these commands we see these characters do, we're not going to appreciate at all until Chapter 10 when we get more free space to actually manually choose (but even then the way the camera is set up, it looks too Empire rather than a battle such as Final Fantasy XII)

IN previous games, we unlocked commands much more efficiently that we appreciate them as we play. Either in a shop, or we "learn" it. In XIII, we dont have that, the set up is automatically because of paradigms. so here's how to fix that (while still keeping paradigm, for you XIII purists), add in a way that lets up update the attacks and allow us to control. So if theres a shop that sells optional attacks to paradigms, or better yet, treat the paradigms like jobs and make them purchasable.

Something that makes Paradigms stand out more.


D) the characters. GOD do i hate the characters, and i look back and i can finally point it out so clearly what makes me hate them so....their so intune with anime characters. here we have a game trying to be incredibly realistic, and it goes back down to the typical anime gestures and personalities. thats right, Vanille was one of those characters, and it had nothing to do with her English voice actor. ok it had a lot to do, but she was still hate-able in the japanese one. Snow tries to hard to be the hero he gets over zealous. Now Lightning acted to much of a B*TCH. more than normal, and her past doesn't justify it at all. It really doesn't. only if you like in anime-land all the time, you would somewhat like it. and i think thats why Square enix loves her so much, she's a breath of fresh air to them....but not really....

What i would do with the characters? For Vanille, as much as she plays a role of this gitsy person, at least hint a real mystery by giving her a mysterious side to her personality. and remove these "gestures" that she does with her body. acting ridiculously childish when she looks older than Hope. Make her do certain pauses when important questions are being asked about her. Don't make her the "we have to have Hope, love and peace!" character.

As much as everyone loves lightning, you know who should've been the lead role? Hope....yeah he's so fricken pessimistic, but can you blame him? right of the bat in chapter 1, who ends up being the most interesting? that's right, Hope. immediately he loses his mom because of an idiot, and gets wrapped up with this mysterious idiot Vanille. (the intro had its faults considering the large-scale coincidence that they all meet).

Lightning wasn't one bit interesting, we just see her getting some action, Sahz acts like an anime character/stereotype which they get wrapped up together. And all to save Serah....her sister, who doesn't get anymore interesting as the story progresses nor her love for Snow that much believable.

So with that in mind, Make Sahz less comedic stereotypical. Everyone in this forum loves him, including myself, but he doesn't get good until much later on. Snow, is an idiot and not once is that being addressed up until he realizes what an idiot he was for trying to be hero....but he doesn't learn from it....so he's a brash idiot from beginning to end...so make him "learn and evolve"

overall i feel like there's one too many characters....and we all know which one i'm thinking of...Fang....i just didn't really feel the need for her to tell the story that was needed to be said, in fact without her, i would've believed that Vanille was a rather important character. i feel like sh plays the role of "vincent" in this game.

And she doesn't really stand out all that much compared to the rest of the cast personality wise. She's a more enjoyable Lighning...but we'll get to her now...

Lightning...i really feel most of what drives her...is petty stuff....saving her sister? that's fine and all but their relationship just doesn't really grab me...Lightning looks like a jerk 24/7 and even toward Serah...i just have no real connection toward her. and even more, she sometimes stays quiet throughout the entire cutscene and we see everyone else do that talking, and i lie you not, she would cross her arms, look the other way, and say something small but obviously in attempts to make her look cool.


E)less stupid cutscenes:
There were moments in this game that just seemed ridiculous. Scenes where you would see characters break personality for just a second. I remembered Hope trying to control this magitech like robot, and ends up falling with a falcie about to crush him. and i can tell this was all comedic by the music being played. made me care less of what would happen to Hope.

And then randomly, those robots save them, and then Sahz makes a cruddy speech (too crudy for anyone to say) just so that Fang can say "yeah, quit with the dumb speeches". and it just felt ridiculous.

scenes like that are all over FF13. theres possible tension, but theres not enough of it.

i'll add something for XIII-2
 
... So I am going as this...

You hated XIII... you Hated XIII-2, you are basically saying that you are going to hate XIII:LR No matters what... why even bother getting it then? Just so you can complain about it? I just don't understand why you would bother if you already set your mind on hating it.... I mean I wouldn't expect someone that hated X to get X-2, or someone that hated VII to get Crisis core or DoC. I mean I hope you at least go into XIII:LR with a little bit of an open mind.

But so that this doesn't get off topic, I will comment on all the ones you have for XIII.

Now A for XIII I have a few things I agree and disagree with.

A) the side missions, if you could of done these earlier (and not at I think chapter 14 or whatever late in the game) Then it could of helped more. Granted I know many FF games where side quests really didn't come into play until later.

As far as the trophies go, this is more a given in todays games, but when XIII came out I know many games had very little or no trophies at all. Honestly I never bother looking at trophies too much so I could care less either way :wacky:

B) the Crystarium was not the best leveling up system by any means, It was like they took a narrow path and made it seem like the Sphere Grid with how you used it. But in the end it wasn't that bad of a system. again, far worse even in the FF games area. Crisis core, FF II, heck the Drawing in FFVIII was probably worse.

C) I have to agree with you on. The one character system was probably one of the worst ideas they had. I know they do this in KH series, but in that it was a given. here you control other characters for their story in a few chapters, but not anyone else? Yeah this I can see being 100% upset about.

D) I actually think the characters were alright... I mean I didn't like Snow too much... but... that's his Hero gimmick I get sick of hearing. Then again VII Crisis Core did that with Zack and in a way Zidane (although he only was impressing the ladies and had comic-relief moments and did drop the hero thing later)

Hope... such a tragic story, I think if we had seen him more before his Mom died, maybe his character would seem less "cry baby" ish to the fans of XIII, but then again the story would need to be focused that way also.

Lightning... I personally think she seems like a Cloud/Squall mix. The whole leave me alone character, doesn't want to get anyone involved, but then changes... yeah... sounds like Cloud and Squall huh? She does a lot of things to save her sister, but then again, I can think of a few FF characters that went on journey's for less... I think giving her a personal reason like that is good.

Sahz... ahh poor Sahz... his son was such a tragic story... and finding out it was Vanille who he was traveling with the whole time... must of made im angry... as far as "typical black guy.." Are we forgetting the one and only Barret???? :ahmed:

Vanille and Fang... Honestly, Fang should of stayed a guy...might of made her character better, and added more to Vanille. But in the end, these girls are interesting in the way that they did get frozen for... I forget how long... and they added a lot to the XIII story in my opinion.


E) the Stupid cutscenes... I don't know, most of these you viewed in the times you did side-quests that had nothing to do with the real story... so I leave this alone because I have no opinion really on this. Although Sahz and the big Cactuar did make me laugh....
 
With Lightning Returns and XIII-2 i began with an open mind. and the more information has added, the less it became a compelling story.

XIII-2 has less issues, but there are still key issues.

Lightning Returns already has issues that are so apparent, that you don't need to play it to know about them. why? because its mostly gimmick/story issues.

Now....the characters...Fang really doesn't play the role she needed to...just a connection to Vanille. if fang was removed from the equation, Vanille would've simply played out her role she needed. you have to put it in perspective on how much a character was necessary. And Fang simply doesn't stand out, not even in the end when she chose to become Ragnarok.

Now, Snow isn't like Zack or Zidane. Zack dreamed of becoming a hero, but never really claimed to being one as that was his dream, and Zidane, he had a stronger personality behind the flirt. But Snow believes to be the hero from beginning to end, one instant where he realizes what a screw up he is, and then doesn't learn from it. I aimply didn't see more than a guy claiming to be a hero. he gets all the glory scenes.

and for KH series, the contorlling one character works because the others are assistants more than a full-fledge equal party. Donald and GOofy are there to compliment Sora, not to have an ATB system. but another issue is that the game refuses to forve you into using different methods. all these methods to learning how to get 5 stars is all trial and error. So the hidden gems of the paradigm shift are far too hidden.
 
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