Cloud's Love Triangle - The LTD of FFVII

[Sum1sgruj]

I never understood the so called 'love triangle'. Tifa and Cloud were lifelong friends.
If Tifa is in the mix, all of them are.

A love nonagon

 

[The Witch]

^Not sure I get what you mean

Death doesn't take away anyone's love for anything. I don't think anyone said that, it does break the fact of having a chance in real life together.

What about Tidus and Yuna? xD

Cloud does love Aerith, just like everyone in AVALANCHE loved her, I just don't agree/think it was a relationship love interest. I stand by what I think, he loved her as a real close friend, just like the others did.

If his feelings were the same as the rest of Aerith's friends, then why, during her death, does everyone come and give their condolences to Cloud, as if he was a grieving husband? Why does Tifa state in CoT that; "...going back to the place where he and Aerith got separated meant that his sorrow and regret was going to tear his heart apart once again."

"Where HE and Aerith got separated"--why single out Cloud if his feelings were the same as the rest of Avalanche? And what about these quotes that single out Cloud's feelings from the others:

Aerith Gainsborough - A girl with the blood of the Ancients running through her veins, who Cloud would never forget. - DoC NA Manual

If Cloud's feelings were the same as the others, why will Cloud never forget her?


Aerith Gainsborough - A girl with the blood of the Ancients flowing through her veins, who is engraved in Cloud's heart for the rest of his life.- Japanese DoC Manual
Engraved in his heart? Now, c'mon, why is she engraved his heart for the rest of his life if his feelings were platonic? I'm not positive, but is Aerith engraved in anyone elses hearts?

And then there's this quote that specifically says Cloud's "undying feelings" are different than the others feelings.


Nomura: I believe, for those who formerly traveled with her as comrades and for the viewers, each carries their own feelings and love for Aerith. In this story, Cloud also carries his own undying feeling for Aerith even to this very day. ~Nomura interview; Dengeki Playstation 2007

In this passage, Nomura clearly states that Cloud's feelings for Aerith are undying, which reinforces the idea that she is engraved in Cloud's heart forever, as stated in the Japanese version of the Dirge of Cerberus game manual. Once again, to have undying feelings for someone is a phrase with heavy implications of love rather than friendship.

Furthermore, Nomura says that each of Aerith's comrades has their own feelings and love for Aerith, but that Cloud carries his own feelings.

This would imply that Cloud's feelings are different than the feelings of his comrades. This is important because the Japanese word aijou is used in this paragraph to describe the love that all members of Avalanche (including Cloud) feel for Aerith. Now, the word aijou can mean either romantic love or platonic love. If Cloud's feelings are different than those of his comrades, then isn't it logical that Cloud's love for Aerith is romantic in nature, while the love that other members of Avalanche have for Aerith is platonic?

Cloud's feelings for Aerith are most definitally not the same as the rest of AVALANCHE. That's proven with how much Cloud's pain is focused on. If his feelings for Aerith were platonic, we shouldn't be beaten over the head with how much Cloud's heart broke, mind shattered, over her death or departure:

She watched Cloud's face which looked as if his heart was going to fall apart from the sadness of losing her, the anger and hate he had for her being taken from him.

...
But a cry came through to her.

It wasn't the sound of her cry. If it was then she would have felt the blood gushing up through her throat and the fury that forced its way out from the depths of her soul - It was the sound of Cloud's heart cracking. It was the cry of his heart that could never be healed of the grief he had towards Aerith's death, the blame towards himself and the hatred he had for Sephiroth.

She was surprised at the great sorrow he had for her. She was a little happy that he thought so much of her but she also felt the pain that was many times greater. There was nothing she could do about Cloud's suffering and the pain ached in her heart.
The pain continued even though she was in the Lifestream.
~Maiden of the Planet

'Taken away from him?', 'The sound of Cloud's heaart cracking?', at this point in time, Aerith felt Cloud's pain because it was the strongest cry that came through to her. Out of all of her friends, Barret, Tifa, Yuffie, Vincent, Cait sith, Red XIII, and Cid--Cloud's pain over her death was the strongest she felt. This right here proves Cloud's feelings for Aerith aren't the same as the rest.

I don't think so. Cloud knew Tifa when they were kids, and if you pay attention to how much he went out of his way for her to notice him, and what roads they've been on together, I find it impossible to believe he would've jumped in a magic cart with Aerith only after meeting her not too long before.

Cloud and Tifa didn't know each other, then, though. Tifa even admits that in VII during the Lifestream scene. They spoke once, and that was at the well:

Young Cloud "Tifa... did you forget... about those days?"
Tifa "Look... I..."
Tifa "I'm sorry... But what are you talking about?"
Young Cloud "No... it's all right. You were having a hard time back then."
Young Cloud "You were so busy with your own things, it's only natural you don't remember me back then."
Tifa "'Back then'?"

Tifa "My room?"
Young Cloud "It was my first time there."
Tifa "Was... it?"
Young Cloud "I only used to look up at it from outside."

Tifa "Was that the first day you came into my room?"
Tifa "...that's right. We lived next to each other. But I really didn't know you that well."
Tifa "I've known you since we were children and I always thought we were close..."
Tifa "Now that you mention it... I don't recall you ever being in my room..."

Young Cloud "Tifa always used to be with this three-some."
Tifa "...That's right."
Young Cloud "You were all childish, laughing at every little stupid thing."
Tifa "But we were children, back then."
Young Cloud "...I know. I'm the one that was stupid. I really wanted to play with everyone, but I was never allowed into the group."

Young Cloud "Then later... I began to think I was different... That I was different from those immature kids."
Young Cloud "That then... maybe..."
(A double of the adult Cloud stands, and then it speaks.)
"Just maybe, they would invite me in."
"I thought that might happen, so I hung around..."

(The double speaks again.)
"That night I called Tifa out to the well... I thought to myself Tifa would never come, that she hated me."
Tifa "Yeah... it was so sudden. I was... a bit surprised."
(She turns to face Young Cloud.)
Tifa "But... It's true that we weren't THAT close, but..."

--------See, they never even spoke, how deep can a dim crush be when you never even spoke to them? Or they never even let you in their group. Going out of his way, is just opinion. I could say the same thing for Cloud going out of his way to gallantly bust into the Shinra building swarming with elite soldiers and robo-guards, risking not only his freedom but his life for a flower girl he just met a few days ago.



Barret "Don't get no ideas 'bout hangin' on to Shinra."
Cloud "Stayin' with Shinra? You asked me a question and I answered it... that's all."
Cloud "I'm going upstairs. I want to talk about my money."
(Cloud moves to leave. Tifa runs in.)

Tifa "Wait, Cloud!"
Barret "Tifa! Let him go! Looks like he still misses the Shinra!"
Cloud "Shut up! I don't care about either Shinra or SOLDIER! But don't get me wrong!”
Cloud “I don't care about AVALANCHE or the Planet for that matter!"
Tifa "Straighten things up with everyone for me."
(Cloud goes back up the elevator and goes to leave. He is followed by Tifa.)

Tifa "Listen, Cloud. I'm asking you. Please join us."
Cloud "Sorry Tifa..."
Tifa "The Planet is dying. Slowly but surely it's dying. Someone has to do something."
Cloud "So let Barret and his buddies do something about it. It's got nothin' to do with me."
(He moves to leave)

Tifa "So! You're really leaving!? You're just going to walk right out ignoring your childhood friend!?"
Cloud "What...?"
Tifa "You forgot the promise, too."
Cloud "Promise?"

Notice that Cloud ignores Tifa’s request to straighten things up with everyone for her. He also tells her that he doesn’t care about AVALANCHE, and moves to leave three times despite Tifa’s requests for him to stay. Cloud has also forgotten about the Promise when Tifa first brings it up to him. These and similar passages suggest that Cloud is long over his crush on her.

Also, time means nothing for two people develop love. So Cloud and Aerith knowing eachother for a little time span doesn't prevent them from falling in love. And if you ask me, the two weeks + days that Cloud and Aerith knew each other just makes their love all the more beautiful and bittersweet. I mean, Cloud only knew Aerith for a short period of time, in yet she's now forever engraved in his heart for all of eternity? They only knew each other for a few weeks, but he already has undying feelings for her? They only knew each other for two weeks but they were able to build a two person world, in which Tifa was jealous of?

Yeah, they only knew each other for two weeks, but seeing all of the romantic and beautiful things they accomplished, I say it just adds to their tragic love.

In a matter of fact, for Cloud to have her engraved in his heart, have undying feeling/love for her, build a two person world together, and build a bond no one else had with each other, I'd say it's pretty darn impossible to develope all of that in a short time period AND NOT be in love with the person.

About the Cait Sith quotes, and this has been my opinion even before I got in to the pairings, you can't just assume just because a fortune teller says their stars are perfect, and that they'd be perfect for each other, their minds are set the same. I mean imagine if Cloud was happily married to someone else at that time? I don't think he'd drop anyone just 'cause his star is perfect. You take your own decisions, if I'm not mistaken, and not have yourself told by a fortune teller, that also betrayed the whole party.... Just my opinion (even before I liked any pairings - just saying).

Of course in THAT situation his prediction wouldn't mean a thing. But Cloud's not with anyone and he definitely isn't married, either. Cloud's a single man.

The thing to pay attention to is that SE decided to make a scene like this occur between them for their future and their relationship. If Cloud and Aerith weren't supposed to be in love with each other, why make their future be a great one withe each other, and why make their stars perfect?

And yes, Cait Sith's predictions hold a deep meaning to them, as said by Nomura.

Besides, the quote says;
Caption:Cat Sith's lines which seem to expect Cloud and Aerith's wedding now makes it more painful. -FFVII Ultimania Omega

If the prediction of their wedding wasn't supposed to be taken seriously, why does it make her death more painful? Because now, their wedding can't happen.

Love shouldn't be put in a jar with a limited amount of oxygen. You can't rush these things. There are enough little facts lingering around to have everyone know how much Cloud cares - loves Tifa. The scene in FFVII, in the lifestream, Crisis Core, the whole dialogue between the two, the connection she has with Cloud, is something no one else has, Cloud's stated the same. No matter what anyone else says, it's her opinion that matters to him.

Connection? are you talking of her knowing Cloud's past? If so, that's not true. Zack knows of Cloud's past, too. Honestly, I'd much rather have a bond or two person world than a connection as weak as just knowing where you came from. And Cloud and Aerith share a bond Tifa doesn't have with Cloud, which she is jealous of. Cloud and Aerith built their own two person world, and excluded Tifa causing her to become jealous. (as stated by DISMANTLED on Tifa's page)

a.) FFVII: Seeing Cloud and Aerith developing their world together before her eyes, she inadvertently lets slip her peevish feelings.(Tifa's profile, 10th Anniversary Ultimania)
b.)When Cloud and Aerith exclude Tifa, her emotion is sometimes becoming of jealousy. There seems to be complicated feelings that exceed mere childhood friends toward Cloud. In the second half of the story, her tone becomes more feminine. The event in the Forgotten City was the turning point. She began to face her own feelings honestly. - DISMANTLED

c.) Friend and rival?
Complicated feelings toward Aerith

Both of them share feelings for Cloud. Tifa was close to Aerith, who can also be called a love rival. With that point in mind, they were also good friends. Nevertheless, it is not hard to imagine that she carries complex feelings as a woman toward Aerith, who had developed a special bond with Cloud that was different from Tifa's.

Tifa's complicated feelings continue even in Advent Children, two years after Aerith had departed the world.
~ 10th Anniversary Ultimania


The bit about her opinion, and I've thought this always, is true. It is only Tifa's opinion that matters. She's the only one alive that can prove he was real. But if that's romantic, what about in DISMANTLED when Cloud asks Aerith who he is?

Cloud: "Aerith is dead. Right in front of my eyes... I couldn't stop Sephiroth. She was in my reach, and all I could do is stand there and watch as his sword ran through her.

All the time Aerith used to smile, like a flower. But, Aerith won't smile anymore. I won't be able to hear her innocent laugh again.

What did she do? Why did Aerith have to die? What am I supposed to do about this anger, it's endlessly boiling and burning up my body. Yet at the same time, I was afraid. Like a chill coming from the core of my body. When I found Aerith there, offering up some prayer, what did I try to do?

If my friends hadn't stopped me at that moment, I would have struck my sword down on Aerith. It was something separate from my own will... it was like when I gave Sephiroth the Black Materia--- Who am I? I'm EX-SOLDIER Cloud... right? Tell me, Aerith---"

Even the Cloti fans don't know the deal with the rooms in Seventh Heaven, so neither parties have room to talk about this, or make assumptions, period. There's no evidence on either side.

That's not true. There is evidence. Evidence that Cloud has his own room, evidence that Tifa and him never share a bed--what more proof do we need to prove they don't share rooms like normal couples would if they've admitted their feelings and had sex on pointy rocks.

Also, no, we haven't seen them kiss, but neither have Cloud and Aerith, unless he dived into the pond during his confused mind set, heh.

Yes, but Aerith's dead. What's the excuse for Cloud not kissing Tifa, despite her admitting her feelings more than once, oh, and her being alive, too?

There's literally nothing stopping Cloud from getting with Tifa, whether that's kissing her or hugging her, we haven't seen Cloud do either to Tifa. So, if he loves her and they admited their love for each other under the highwind, why no kiss scene? Why have separate rooms? It's not like anything is preventing him from being with her... so why not show a fluffy kiss scene between the two? If I can be frank, we haven't seen them kiss or anything because... Cloud doesn't love her.

Either way though... I agree with Quexinos, Tifa was and always will be the key to Cloud's real self, which to me, means she knows Cloud more than anyone, and... If Cloud didn't want it that way, he probably wouldn't have opened up so honestly to her in the Lifestream. <3

She knows the details about Cloud's past in Nibelhiem... Aerith is still the one he has engraved in his heart for all of eternity. And Aerith is the one Cloud developes a special bond with, not to mention a two person world.

If Cloud didn't love Aerith, she wouldn't be engraved in his heart, nor would he have an undying feeling for her that differs from platonic love, nor would he have a special bond with her he shares with no one else, nor would he create a two person world with Aerith.


(grrr, argh took a while to type up)

Mod edit: Merged posts

 

[Six]

What about Tidus and Yuna? xD

I dunno... And quite frankly, I don't care. I've never played X, so I'd be completely pointless to compare two different Final Fantasy games for facts. They're completely different games, and... Different things are possible in different FFs. I mean, why didn't they just toss a phoenix down at Aerith if it revives people?

If his feelings were the same as the rest of Aerith's friends, then why, during her death, does everyone come and give their condolences to Cloud, as if he was a grieving husband? Why does Tifa state in CoT that;

"...going back to the place where he and Aerith got separated meant that his sorrow and regret was going to tear his heart apart once again."

To quote it from there can come over differently then if you were to quote the full paragraph. If I remember correctly, you're talking about the paragraph where Tifa finds the note to deliver the flowers?

And it's said that, she knows Cloud was in great pain because he couldn't protect Aerith. Do you remember how Cloud seemed when he was a little kid, and he couldn't protect Tifa? She was in a coma for seven days. Cloud was devastated and blamed himself.

Here Tifa claims she knows he was in great pain because he couldn't protect Aerith. In fact, I think it's a big thing that Sephiroth, the guy that ruined everything for him already took away someone he cared about, once again. He was about ready to move on, and then they received that note. Now... My common sense tells me this opens up wounds that are healing, so for that, nothing is pairing related, that's just realism. =/

I'd break if I had lost a close friend, and I was about to start dealing with things normally again, and then suddenly got reminded again. Who wouldn't, honestly.

"Where HE and Aerith got separated"--why single out Cloud if his feelings were the same as the rest of Avalanche? And what about these quotes that single out Cloud's feelings from the others:

Aerith Gainsborough - A girl with the blood of the Ancients running through her veins, who Cloud would never forget. - DoC NA Manual

Why not single out Cloud? He's the one delivering the flowers. He's the one who feels most guilty over her death because he said he'd protect her. How does that not add up to something realistic? It would be retarded to say it about, for ex. Barret. "Where Barret and the rest got seperated." It makes no sense, Cloud is the lead character of Final Fantasy VII.

Cloud's feelings of love are the same is what I think. His guilt is something he deals with a lot more because none of the others said they'd protect her like he did when they met. =/

And as for pointing out who Cloud would never forget. Erm... I don't even understand. It'd be pretty weird if they'd forget about her, let alone CLOUD. So... If that were to be read in none bold print, it'd just be another normal thing to me. Lead character, etc etc.

If Cloud's feelings were the same as the others, why will Cloud never forget her?

I don't understand why he would, or anyone at that. Just because you move on, it doesn't mean you forget someone.

Aerith Gainsborough - A girl with the blood of the Ancients flowing through her veins, who is engraved in Cloud's heart for the rest of his life.- Japanese DoC Manual

Engraved in his heart? Now, c'mon, why is she engraved his heart for the rest of his life if his feelings were platonic? I'm not positive, but is Aerith engraved in anyone elses hearts?

Who knows - is it stated? No. Is it denied? No.

And then there's this quote that specifically says Cloud's "undying feelings" are different than the others feelings.

Nomura: I believe, for those who formerly traveled with her as comrades and for the viewers, each carries their own feelings and love for Aerith. In this story, Cloud also carries his own undying feeling for Aerith even to this very day. ~Nomura interview; Dengeki Playstation 2007

In this passage, Nomura clearly states that Cloud's feelings for Aerith are undying, which reinforces the idea that she is engraved in Cloud's heart forever, as stated in the Japanese version of the Dirge of Cerberus game manual. Once again, to have undying feelings for someone is a phrase with heavy implications of love rather than friendship.

To me, this is once again, just another one of those things. Stating the whole team does, and singling Cloud out because everyone knows Cloud, everyone knows about how guilty he feels, everyone knows he was devestated.

If what you're saying about the feelings is right, than the first sentence makes absolutely no sense, so I think it was translated the way it was for a reason. It claims the whole team has their feelings AND love for Aerith, and Cloud ALSO has his undying 'feelings' (not love) for her. It's never said the team has feelings that will fade out during time. I don't even understand what you're trying to say here, Cali... I'm trying to, but... =/

Isn't it kinda... strange to think someone would forget about their teammate just like that? Just because they state something like undying, (to me) it just means that he won't forget her. And he better not, 'cause that'd just be messed up.

Furthermore, Nomura says that each of Aerith's comrades has their own feelings and love for Aerith, but that Cloud carries his own feelings.

Everyone carries their own... So it's... kinda... obvious Cloud does to?

This would imply that Cloud's feelings are different than the feelings of his comrades. This is important because the Japanese word aijou is used in this paragraph to describe the love that all members of Avalanche (including Cloud) feel for Aerith. Now, the word aijou can mean either romantic love or platonic love. If Cloud's feelings are different than those of his comrades, then isn't it logical that Cloud's love for Aerith is romantic in nature, while the love that other members of Avalanche have for Aerith is platonic?

No, that's not logical. I'm not saying this because I'm a Cloti supporter either.

#1 You love someone as a friend, and you're grieving you lost someone.

#2 You love someone romantically.

#3 You love someone as a friend, and you feel resposible for their death.

If you were to say Cloud's feelings are different than the others from the team, I'd say the whole team has #1, and Cloud has #3. I mean, why romantically? =/ Different to me would seem more that he feels resposible.

Cloud's feelings for Aerith are most definitally not the same as the rest of AVALANCHE. That's proven with how much Cloud's pain is focused on. If his feelings for Aerith were platonic, we shouldn't be beaten over the head with how much Cloud's heart broke, mind shattered, over her death or departure.

It isn't the same. He feels resposible as to where the others didn't tell her they'd protect her. If you were to tell someone you were gonna look after them, and they died right in front of you? You'd deal with it the same way the person next to you would, who had met them after you did, and had none of the above things to keep to?

I'm sorry, but I'd be overwhelmed with guilt.

She watched Cloud's face which looked as if his heart was going to fall apart from the sadness of losing her, the anger and hate he had for her being taken from him.

...

But a cry came through to her.
It wasn't the sound of her cry. If it was then she would have felt the blood gushing up through her throat and the fury that forced its way out from the depths of her soul - It was the sound of Cloud's heart cracking. It was the cry of his heart that could never be healed of the grief he had towards Aerith's death, the blame towards himself and the hatred he had for Sephiroth.

She was surprised at the great sorrow he had for her. She was a little happy that he thought so much of her but she also felt the pain that was many times greater. There was nothing she could do about Cloud's suffering and the pain ached in her heart.
The pain continued even though she was in the Lifestream.
~Maiden of the Planet

Now instead of making all that bold, let's point this out:

It wasn't the sound of her cry. If it was then she would have felt the blood gushing up through her throat and the fury that forced its way out from the depths of her soul - It was the sound of Cloud's heart cracking. It was the cry of his heart that could never be healed of the grief he had towards Aerith's death, the blame towards himself and the hatred he had for Sephiroth.


Make sense?

'Taken away from him?', 'The sound of Cloud's heaart cracking?', at this point in time, Aerith felt Cloud's pain because it was the strongest cry that came through to her. Out of all of her friends, Barret, Tifa, Yuffie, Vincent, Cait sith, Red XIII, and Cid--Cloud's pain over her death was the strongest she felt. This right here proves Cloud's feelings for Aerith aren't the same as the rest.

Aerith loving Cloud doesn't mean he has that same romantic love for her though, Cali. She obviously cares and singles Cloud out over the rest because she cares for him like that. She's worried about how Cloud's doing above all. Obviously.

I just don't understand what you're trying to prove here. His feelings AREN'T the same, no. His LOVE, is what I stand by is what is the same. Others don't have the guilt in the back of their head, so yes, obviously it is different, but not different as in he loves her romatically, unlike everyone else.

Cloud and Tifa didn't know each other, then, though. Tifa even admits that in VII during the Lifestream scene. They spoke once, and that was at the well.

They didn't know each other that well. They basically grew up, and you don't just develop a crush for someone out of the blue. You don't call them out to the well, to impress them with joining SOLDIER. Cloud mentions this too.

And to all those random haters that go about Tifa forcing him to promise her, if that's anyone's view who's gonna reply to what I'm saying - don't bother. That's absolutely ridiculous.

Cloud did it for him, if anything he was more than happy to promise his crush something like that. Imagine being in his shoes, madly in love with this girl, and making a promise with her? Sorry, my day would be made.

--------See, they never even spoke, how deep can a dim crush be when you never even spoke to them? Or they never even let you in their group. Going out of his way, is just opinion. I could say the same thing for Cloud going out of his way to gallantly bust into the Shinra building swarming with elite soldiers and robo-guards, risking not only his freedom but his life for a flower girl he just met a few days ago.

Lol, "dim crush", if you say so. Like I said, even before I supported any pairing because I was too busy figuring the game out, that was a big thing to me. Just saying.

I'll leave it at that, because I respect your opinion, and I don't think I can give you a reason without seeming like I'm being disrespectful or anything. So pass.

But, to break that bubble about Cloud going out of his way is an actual OPTION in the game during the Shinra Sequence. You can sneak in after all, you know.

Notice that Cloud ignores Tifa’s request to straighten things up with everyone for her. He also tells her that he doesn’t care about AVALANCHE, and moves to leave three times despite Tifa’s requests for him to stay. Cloud has also forgotten about the Promise when Tifa first brings it up to him. These and similar passages suggest that Cloud is long over his crush on her.

So it is okay to say Cloud is confused because of the Mako, but it's not logical he has other things on his mind because of the Mako? 'Cause... When you see the scene where Tifa finds him at the trainstation, did you see his state? That ain't healthy, and as he's still dealing with that, along with raging over Barret, (as usual, rofl) I don't find it odd for him to ask "Promise?"

I think it's rather odd to assume he's over his crush though. That's like assuming your boyfriend is madly in over his head with that girl that just walked by in like... panties and a bra. Come on now, Cali.

Besides, once again, optional. You can have him apologize, stead of saying what, and if anything he didn't 'forget', he just needed a reminder, which is fine in my opinion, during above events.

Also, time means nothing for two people develop love. So Cloud and Aerith knowing eachother for a little time span doesn't prevent them from falling in love. And if you ask me, the two weeks + days that Cloud and Aerith knew each other just makes their love all the more beautiful and bittersweet. I mean, Cloud only knew Aerith for a short period of time, in yet she's now forever engraved in his heart for all of eternity? They only knew each other for a few weeks, but he already has undying feelings for her? They only knew each other for two weeks but they were able to build a two person world, in which Tifa was jealous of?

Maybe time doesn't mean anything for two people to fall in love, but time does mean something for you to get to know, and realize you actually love-LOVE the person you fell for. What people try to say with this, is that everyone has flaws, and two people just don't work out sometimes.

Now that is fine to think, and that is just your opinion, but I don't think they fell in love. Maybe Aerith did, but who knows, she fell for him 'cause he reminded her of Zack, I know she wanted to get to know Cloud, because she liked him more, but she's not sure of that, that's what she wanted to find out, what she was going to find out, until she died.

Yeah, they only knew each other for two weeks, but seeing all of the romantic and beautiful things they accomplished, I say it just adds to their tragic love.

In a matter of fact, for Cloud to have her engraved in his heart, have undying feeling/love for her, build a two person world together, and build a bond no one else had with each other, I'd say it's pretty darn impossible to develope all of that in a short time period AND NOT be in love with the person.

I don't find that so impossible at all. I've grown attached to several people in a short amount of time in my life, but that didn't mean I was in love with them. That's something I can confirm because I'm perfectly aware of my own feelings, so nah, it's not impossible, trust me.

The thing to pay attention to is that SE decided to make a scene like this occur between them for their future and their relationship. If Cloud and Aerith weren't supposed to be in love with each other, why make their future be a great one withe each other, and why make their stars perfect?

Then why all that trouble for nothing? For tragedy? Sure. For true love? I don't think so.

Yet everytime someone brings up the HA version of the Highwind scene, people about jump out of their skin. SE has confirmed Cloud and Tifa confirm their MUTUAL feelings to one other.

/End LTD.

And yes, Cait Sith's predictions hold a deep meaning to them, as said by Nomura.

Besides, the quote says;
Caption:Cat Sith's lines which seem to expect Cloud and Aerith's wedding now makes it more painful. -FFVII Ultimania Omega

If the prediction of their wedding wasn't supposed to be taken seriously, why does it make her death more painful? Because now, their wedding can't happen.

Nothing in FFVII states anything about a wedding. So to be honest, I'm not sure if that's translated wrong, but even if it isn't. Like I've stated so many times before....

Just because someone states you and someone else will be perfect together, it doesn't mean YOU are willing to be with them. So in this case, everyone's deciding Cloud's life, while Cloud NEVER states he loves Aerith, let alone interested in marrying her. (when she was still alive, and even after she died.)

Cloud and Aerith share a bond Tifa doesn't have with Cloud, which she is jealous of. Cloud and Aerith built their own two person world, and excluded Tifa causing her to become jealous. (as stated by DISMANTLED on Tifa's page)

Tifa's feelings are complex. Tifa is in love with Cloud. I'm one to speak if one random girl starts laughing with my boyfriend, occasionaly, I get jealous to. Normal much? Tifa loves Aerith, but she knows Aerith loves Cloud too. Not once do you see Tifa being nasty to Aerith though, so jealous or not. She handles it like a real friend. Wouldn't you be jealous if you know a friend of yours loves someone you've been in love with for years?

c.) Friend and rival?

Complicated feelings toward Aerith

That. Exactly.

Both of them share feelings for Cloud. Tifa was close to Aerith, who can also be called a love rival. With that point in mind, they were also good friends. Nevertheless, it is not hard to imagine that she carries complex feelings as a woman toward Aerith, who had developed a special bond with Cloud that was different from Tifa's.

Once again, no idea why that's bold to point out. She can't possibly HAVE the same bond. How can you have the exact same bond if you're a completely different person?

That's not true. There is evidence. Evidence that Cloud has his own room, evidence that Tifa and him never share a bed--what more proof do we need to prove they don't share rooms like normal couples would if they've admitted their feelings and had sex on pointy rocks.

Where?

Never said they share a bed. You don't have to share a bed. They are not expected to jump in to marriage two years after BECAUSE Cloud has feelings for her. They are not expected to rush in to anything to prove their love is real, just like you say time means nothing for two people to fall in love, it doesn't matter to take your time if you are in love. Especially not if it's mutual.

Yes, but Aerith's dead. What's the excuse for Cloud not kissing Tifa, despite her admitting her feelings more than once, oh, and her being alive, too?

Touchy.

Well, as sarcastic as it may seem, yes, her being alive. Cloud and Tifa are both shy. I think if anything, it's the right decision to wait until they had their heads cleared. If anything, Cloud was only beginning to get himself back together until he got that note, which was after he started the delivery business. Then things crumbled again, so, no matter what you say on bittersweet love, I think it's sweeter they wait.

To be fair, there is no excuse, and they need no excuse. Loving someone doesn't mean you have limited amount of time to kiss/admit/havesex/make babies/prove you love someone. Because if you think THAT way, then I hate to break it to you, but Cloud and Aerith will never kiss, because she's not around anymore, and well... That means he totally didn't love her/can ever love her.

Ridiculous, right? I agree.

There's literally nothing stopping Cloud from getting with Tifa, whether that's kissing her or hugging her, we haven't seen Cloud do either to Tifa. So, if he loves her and they admited their love for each other under the highwind, why no kiss scene? Why have separate rooms? It's not like anything is preventing him from being with her... so why not show a fluffy kiss scene between the two?

I answered this above. =) If the time isn't right, it isn't right. I know I certainly wouldn't want to have to deal with those things right after the events of losing someone and saving the world. That's just me trying to be realistic. Not taking a side for a pairing.

Why would their be a kiss scene? Let's be realistic here, Cali, I know you can be as well, and I know you can shove your pairing related feelings aside too.

It's Square Enix, so letting out facts like kissing that aren't going to happen. They're WELL aware of their fanbase. They'll give hints, and crush them like beatles if it's sided too much, and you know this.

They aren't stupid. This LTD has been going for years and years, and out of nowhere they'd upset all their CloudxAerith supporters? They'd love a TON of a fanbase, vice versa if they were to deny CloudxTifa. You KNOW this. So I think that question is a tad... Ridiculous. =/

If I can be frank, we haven't seen them kiss or anything because... Cloud doesn't love her.

See above. Has nothing to do with loving her or not.

She knows the details about Cloud's past in Nibelhiem... Aerith is still the one he has engraved in his heart for all of eternity. And Aerith is the one Cloud developes a special bond with, not to mention a two person world.

If Cloud didn't love Aerith, she wouldn't be engraved in his heart, nor would he have an undying feeling for her that differs from platonic love, nor would he have a special bond with her he shares with no one else, nor would he create a two person world with Aerith.

Lol, having someone engraved in your heart doesn't mean they're more important to you than anyone. So I don't know why you keep pointing that out, maybe 'cause it's only stated Cloud has that? *Shrugs* He is the lead character after all, and there are two girls loving him. So why not add fuel to the fire? (Those are probably SE's thoughts) But I stand by what I said.

I'm not gonna deny the world they developed together, but I'm not gonna toss it in a box with "LOVE" written on it either. Can be anything. For all we know it's a different understanding they have with each other. Cloud was closest with Aerith, I'd assume, but never does he say he loves her. Whiiiiiiile...

_____________________

Cloud noticed her gaze and asked, “What’s wrong?”

"Cloud, you’re smiling."

“I am?”

“Yeah.”

“It all starts now. A new…” Cloud looked for the right words.

“A new life.”

“I’m going to live. I think that’s the only way I can be forgiven. All sorts of things… happened."

“That’s right…”

“But when I think about how many times I’ve thought about how I was going to start a new life, it’s funny."

“Why?”

“Because I’ve always failed everything.”

“That’s not funny.”

“After this … I think I’ll be okay.” Cloud was silent for a long time before he spoke again.

“Because I have you this time.”

“You’ve always had me.”

“What I mean is kind of different,” Cloud answered with another smile.

___________________
Cloud's ACTUAL words to Tifa.

I'll get back on how I think about THAT sometime soon. For now, I'm done. Killer headache.

Ps. Cannae be bothered to fix any typos. S'cuse me if I make no sense.

 

[Baron Van Wolfen]

^Not sure I get what you mean

What about Tidus and Yuna? xD
If his feelings were the same as the rest of Aerith's friends, then why, during her death, does everyone come and give their condolences to Cloud, as if he was a grieving husband? Why does Tifa state in CoT that; "...going back to the place where he and Aerith got separated meant that his sorrow and regret was going to tear his heart apart once again."

"Where HE and Aerith got separated"--why single out Cloud if his feelings were the same as the rest of Avalanche? And what about these quotes that single out Cloud's feelings from the others:

Aerith Gainsborough - A girl with the blood of the Ancients running through her veins, who Cloud would never forget. - DoC NA Manual

If Cloud's feelings were the same as the others, why will Cloud never forget her?


Aerith Gainsborough - A girl with the blood of the Ancients flowing through her veins, who is engraved in Cloud's heart for the rest of his life.- Japanese DoC Manual
Engraved in his heart? Now, c'mon, why is she engraved his heart for the rest of his life if his feelings were platonic? I'm not positive, but is Aerith engraved in anyone elses hearts?

And then there's this quote that specifically says Cloud's "undying feelings" are different than the others feelings.


Nomura: I believe, for those who formerly traveled with her as comrades and for the viewers, each carries their own feelings and love for Aerith. In this story, Cloud also carries his own undying feeling for Aerith even to this very day. ~Nomura interview; Dengeki Playstation 2007

In this passage, Nomura clearly states that Cloud's feelings for Aerith are undying, which reinforces the idea that she is engraved in Cloud's heart forever, as stated in the Japanese version of the Dirge of Cerberus game manual. Once again, to have undying feelings for someone is a phrase with heavy implications of love rather than friendship.

Furthermore, Nomura says that each of Aerith's comrades has their own feelings and love for Aerith, but that Cloud carries his own feelings.

This would imply that Cloud's feelings are different than the feelings of his comrades. This is important because the Japanese word aijou is used in this paragraph to describe the love that all members of Avalanche (including Cloud) feel for Aerith. Now, the word aijou can mean either romantic love or platonic love. If Cloud's feelings are different than those of his comrades, then isn't it logical that Cloud's love for Aerith is romantic in nature, while the love that other members of Avalanche have for Aerith is platonic?

Cloud's feelings for Aerith are most definitally not the same as the rest of AVALANCHE. That's proven with how much Cloud's pain is focused on. If his feelings for Aerith were platonic, we shouldn't be beaten over the head with how much Cloud's heart broke, mind shattered, over her death or departure:

She watched Cloud's face which looked as if his heart was going to fall apart from the sadness of losing her, the anger and hate he had for her being taken from him.

...
But a cry came through to her.

It wasn't the sound of her cry. If it was then she would have felt the blood gushing up through her throat and the fury that forced its way out from the depths of her soul - It was the sound of Cloud's heart cracking. It was the cry of his heart that could never be healed of the grief he had towards Aerith's death, the blame towards himself and the hatred he had for Sephiroth.

She was surprised at the great sorrow he had for her. She was a little happy that he thought so much of her but she also felt the pain that was many times greater. There was nothing she could do about Cloud's suffering and the pain ached in her heart.
The pain continued even though she was in the Lifestream.
~Maiden of the Planet

'Taken away from him?', 'The sound of Cloud's heaart cracking?', at this point in time, Aerith felt Cloud's pain because it was the strongest cry that came through to her. Out of all of her friends, Barret, Tifa, Yuffie, Vincent, Cait sith, Red XIII, and Cid--Cloud's pain over her death was the strongest she felt. This right here proves Cloud's feelings for Aerith aren't the same as the rest.

Cloud and Tifa didn't know each other, then, though. Tifa even admits that in VII during the Lifestream scene. They spoke once, and that was at the well:

Young Cloud "Tifa... did you forget... about those days?"
Tifa "Look... I..."
Tifa "I'm sorry... But what are you talking about?"
Young Cloud "No... it's all right. You were having a hard time back then."
Young Cloud "You were so busy with your own things, it's only natural you don't remember me back then."
Tifa "'Back then'?"

Tifa "My room?"
Young Cloud "It was my first time there."
Tifa "Was... it?"
Young Cloud "I only used to look up at it from outside."

Tifa "Was that the first day you came into my room?"
Tifa "...that's right. We lived next to each other. But I really didn't know you that well."
Tifa "I've known you since we were children and I always thought we were close..."
Tifa "Now that you mention it... I don't recall you ever being in my room..."

Young Cloud "Tifa always used to be with this three-some."
Tifa "...That's right."
Young Cloud "You were all childish, laughing at every little stupid thing."
Tifa "But we were children, back then."
Young Cloud "...I know. I'm the one that was stupid. I really wanted to play with everyone, but I was never allowed into the group."

Young Cloud "Then later... I began to think I was different... That I was different from those immature kids."
Young Cloud "That then... maybe..."
(A double of the adult Cloud stands, and then it speaks.)
"Just maybe, they would invite me in."
"I thought that might happen, so I hung around..."

(The double speaks again.)
"That night I called Tifa out to the well... I thought to myself Tifa would never come, that she hated me."
Tifa "Yeah... it was so sudden. I was... a bit surprised."
(She turns to face Young Cloud.)
Tifa "But... It's true that we weren't THAT close, but..."

--------See, they never even spoke, how deep can a dim crush be when you never even spoke to them? Or they never even let you in their group. Going out of his way, is just opinion. I could say the same thing for Cloud going out of his way to gallantly bust into the Shinra building swarming with elite soldiers and robo-guards, risking not only his freedom but his life for a flower girl he just met a few days ago.



Barret "Don't get no ideas 'bout hangin' on to Shinra."
Cloud "Stayin' with Shinra? You asked me a question and I answered it... that's all."
Cloud "I'm going upstairs. I want to talk about my money."
(Cloud moves to leave. Tifa runs in.)

Tifa "Wait, Cloud!"
Barret "Tifa! Let him go! Looks like he still misses the Shinra!"
Cloud "Shut up! I don't care about either Shinra or SOLDIER! But don't get me wrong!”
Cloud “I don't care about AVALANCHE or the Planet for that matter!"
Tifa "Straighten things up with everyone for me."
(Cloud goes back up the elevator and goes to leave. He is followed by Tifa.)

Tifa "Listen, Cloud. I'm asking you. Please join us."
Cloud "Sorry Tifa..."
Tifa "The Planet is dying. Slowly but surely it's dying. Someone has to do something."
Cloud "So let Barret and his buddies do something about it. It's got nothin' to do with me."
(He moves to leave)

Tifa "So! You're really leaving!? You're just going to walk right out ignoring your childhood friend!?"
Cloud "What...?"
Tifa "You forgot the promise, too."
Cloud "Promise?"

Notice that Cloud ignores Tifa’s request to straighten things up with everyone for her. He also tells her that he doesn’t care about AVALANCHE, and moves to leave three times despite Tifa’s requests for him to stay. Cloud has also forgotten about the Promise when Tifa first brings it up to him. These and similar passages suggest that Cloud is long over his crush on her.

Also, time means nothing for two people develop love. So Cloud and Aerith knowing eachother for a little time span doesn't prevent them from falling in love. And if you ask me, the two weeks + days that Cloud and Aerith knew each other just makes their love all the more beautiful and bittersweet. I mean, Cloud only knew Aerith for a short period of time, in yet she's now forever engraved in his heart for all of eternity? They only knew each other for a few weeks, but he already has undying feelings for her? They only knew each other for two weeks but they were able to build a two person world, in which Tifa was jealous of?

Yeah, they only knew each other for two weeks, but seeing all of the romantic and beautiful things they accomplished, I say it just adds to their tragic love.

In a matter of fact, for Cloud to have her engraved in his heart, have undying feeling/love for her, build a two person world together, and build a bond no one else had with each other, I'd say it's pretty darn impossible to develope all of that in a short time period AND NOT be in love with the person.

Of course in THAT situation his prediction wouldn't mean a thing. But Cloud's not with anyone and he definitely isn't married, either. Cloud's a single man.

The thing to pay attention to is that SE decided to make a scene like this occur between them for their future and their relationship. If Cloud and Aerith weren't supposed to be in love with each other, why make their future be a great one withe each other, and why make their stars perfect?

And yes, Cait Sith's predictions hold a deep meaning to them, as said by Nomura.

Besides, the quote says;
Caption:Cat Sith's lines which seem to expect Cloud and Aerith's wedding now makes it more painful. -FFVII Ultimania Omega

If the prediction of their wedding wasn't supposed to be taken seriously, why does it make her death more painful? Because now, their wedding can't happen.

Connection? are you talking of her knowing Cloud's past? If so, that's not true. Zack knows of Cloud's past, too. Honestly, I'd much rather have a bond or two person world than a connection as weak as just knowing where you came from. And Cloud and Aerith share a bond Tifa doesn't have with Cloud, which she is jealous of. Cloud and Aerith built their own two person world, and excluded Tifa causing her to become jealous. (as stated by DISMANTLED on Tifa's page)

a.) FFVII: Seeing Cloud and Aerith developing their world together before her eyes, she inadvertently lets slip her peevish feelings.(Tifa's profile, 10th Anniversary Ultimania)
b.)When Cloud and Aerith exclude Tifa, her emotion is sometimes becoming of jealousy. There seems to be complicated feelings that exceed mere childhood friends toward Cloud. In the second half of the story, her tone becomes more feminine. The event in the Forgotten City was the turning point. She began to face her own feelings honestly. - DISMANTLED

c.) Friend and rival?
Complicated feelings toward Aerith

Both of them share feelings for Cloud. Tifa was close to Aerith, who can also be called a love rival. With that point in mind, they were also good friends. Nevertheless, it is not hard to imagine that she carries complex feelings as a woman toward Aerith, who had developed a special bond with Cloud that was different from Tifa's.

Tifa's complicated feelings continue even in Advent Children, two years after Aerith had departed the world.
~ 10th Anniversary Ultimania


The bit about her opinion, and I've thought this always, is true. It is only Tifa's opinion that matters. She's the only one alive that can prove he was real. But if that's romantic, what about in DISMANTLED when Cloud asks Aerith who he is?

Cloud: "Aerith is dead. Right in front of my eyes... I couldn't stop Sephiroth. She was in my reach, and all I could do is stand there and watch as his sword ran through her.

All the time Aerith used to smile, like a flower. But, Aerith won't smile anymore. I won't be able to hear her innocent laugh again.

What did she do? Why did Aerith have to die? What am I supposed to do about this anger, it's endlessly boiling and burning up my body. Yet at the same time, I was afraid. Like a chill coming from the core of my body. When I found Aerith there, offering up some prayer, what did I try to do?

If my friends hadn't stopped me at that moment, I would have struck my sword down on Aerith. It was something separate from my own will... it was like when I gave Sephiroth the Black Materia--- Who am I? I'm EX-SOLDIER Cloud... right? Tell me, Aerith---"


That's not true. There is evidence. Evidence that Cloud has his own room, evidence that Tifa and him never share a bed--what more proof do we need to prove they don't share rooms like normal couples would if they've admitted their feelings and had sex on pointy rocks.

Yes, but Aerith's dead. What's the excuse for Cloud not kissing Tifa, despite her admitting her feelings more than once, oh, and her being alive, too?

There's literally nothing stopping Cloud from getting with Tifa, whether that's kissing her or hugging her, we haven't seen Cloud do either to Tifa. So, if he loves her and they admited their love for each other under the highwind, why no kiss scene? Why have separate rooms? It's not like anything is preventing him from being with her... so why not show a fluffy kiss scene between the two? If I can be frank, we haven't seen them kiss or anything because... Cloud doesn't love her.

She knows the details about Cloud's past in Nibelhiem... Aerith is still the one he has engraved in his heart for all of eternity. And Aerith is the one Cloud developes a special bond with, not to mention a two person world.

If Cloud didn't love Aerith, she wouldn't be engraved in his heart, nor would he have an undying feeling for her that differs from platonic love, nor would he have a special bond with her he shares with no one else, nor would he create a two person world with Aerith.


(grrr, argh took a while to type up)

Mod edit: Merged posts

Wow....holy wall of text.

Mate, i think you put way too much faith in statements that were made in relation to anyone of the group. Everyone has a part of aerith in them, and they will never forget aerith, for she was their friend. She`s engraved in everybody`s heart. Cloud only ever relates to aerith when he was in his pseudo personality. Really her death was saddening for all of them, but of course cloud was impacted the most cause he is the main char, was asked to be her bodyguard, was a meter away from her, and was also about to kill her. He even runs away in AC because of the guilt over two of his best friends(well an because he is dying).

The false cloud might even have had feeligs for her(possibly a reminisce of zack`s), but the real cloud feels nothing but shame and guilt for her death. Ever seen a quote about cloud even remotely loving aerith after he finds himself?? Not really. She still lives in his heart, as does in tifa`s, and any other member of avalanche.

But please let`s face it, she never even really met the real cloud strife. She met a zack/cloud jenova induced mercenary. The real cloud is never going to forget her, but there`s absolutely zero evidence that he likes her romantically. Seriously, the fact he has a family with someone else should be proof enough. And the fact tifa is the only person who knows whom cloud strife really is. And the stuff he said to her in CoT.

I mean avalanche even gets rid of the pink ribbons at are supposed to symbolize their connection to her.

 

[Quexinos]

But please let`s face it, she never even really met the real cloud strife.

According to Maiden of the Planet, she got to know him during the Lifestream Event and her feelings for him didn't change at all.

She was happy. She was happy that she now knew the real Cloud and was able to watch over him, even though it was just for a short while.

Also you said she never met the real Cloud... before she died right? I'm not sure are you trying to say that her feelings should be suspect because she didn't know Cloud enough? I just want to be sure before I respond.

 

[Baron Van Wolfen]

According to Maiden of the Planet, she got to know him during the Lifestream Event and her feelings for him didn't change at all.



Also you said she never met the real Cloud... before she died right? I'm not sure are you trying to say that her feelings should be suspect because she didn't know Cloud enough? I just want to be sure before I respond.

Sorry if i misworded, what i meant was that she dosent know he real cloud because of that quote saying he only ever opened his heart to tifa and whatnot. Yes, she got to see a glimpse of cloud`s real self, but not the deep parts of his mind like tifa did. As that would require them to ave experiances toguether, like tifa and cloud.

 

[Quexinos]

Sorry if i misworded, what i meant was that she dosent know he real cloud because of that quote saying he only ever opened his heart to tifa and whatnot.

I know and I'm asking if you're saying she can't truly love him because she doesn't know him.

 

[Unsung]

Square Enix purposely set this up so that people would debate about it and it has worked, greatly. For twelve years people have been debating about this and I've got a solution that actually makes sense. Couldn't it be possible that Cloud loves them both? It is possible for someone to fall in love with more than one person, it's happened before.

 

[The Witch]

It happens. But who's to say that's Cloud's case?

 

[Unsung]

Well, obviously we can not say for sure but that's about the best resolution that I could come up with. I know that it may make Cloud look like a sleaze or a pig but maybe it's a flaw of his made by Square Enix. Everybody has flaws and maybe they wanted to incorporate that into his character to make him seem more...real, I guess.

 

[Quexinos]

Loving two girls would be a flaw?

 

[The Witch]

It's not a flaw. Just... not Cloud.

Maybe, someone can say Cloud loved Aerith but since she's dead he'll have to "move on" but that is still iffy with me.

 

[Quexinos]

IMO He did love both just not in the same way. Aerith was very dear to him and always will be. Perhaps there were feelings of romance there but they didn't have time to grow.

Also does anyone know how many posts I need before I can start repping people?

 

[The Witch]

I think a 100 posts is what you need.

Also, I don't get that. How didn't his feelings have the chance to grow?
Obviously his feelings grew, hence why he wants to meet Aerith in is promised directly after the Highwind scene.

 

[Six]

It's not his promised land, it's the promised land.

Also, Que, I think you need to be repped before you can give out more rep as well. =)

 

[The Witch]

It's not his promised land, it's the promised land.

Also, Que, I think you need to be repped before you can give out more rep as well. =)

But, for him to be in a promised land that means it's his. I don't think people can visit others promised lands, right?

And no, I've repped her twice.

EDIT: The point is, even after the highwind scene, Cloud still tells Tifa he wants to meet Aerith in "the promised land". That's very significant.

 

[Six]

But, for him to be in a promised land that means it's his. I don't think people can visit others promised lands, right?

And no, I've repped her twice.

EDIT: The point is, even after the highwind scene, Cloud still tells Tifa he wants to meet Aerith in "the promised land". That's very significant.

Cloud states he thinks to know where he CAN meet her. Tifa states they should go meet her. Cloud doesn't specifically say that.

Also, I guess I think differently. The promised land is one place to me, not one person's. That's just me, I guess.

 

[The Witch]

No... Cloud says
"The promised land... I think I can meet her... there"

end quote.

Notice the "I" Cloud used, why would he say he thinks he can meet her there if he wasn't intending on going there?

 

[Unsung]

Isn't he going there in the first place because of his promise to Zack?

 

[Six]

No... Cloud says
"The promised land... I think I can meet her... there"

end quote.

Notice the "I" Cloud used, why would he say he thinks he can meet her there if he wasn't intending on going there?

You're right. He first says the promised land, then the I think I can meet her there. /cobwebsbrain. Then Tifa confirms etc etc.