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| The Sleeping Forest Forum for serious discussions on important issues. Debating is encouraged. Spam will not be tolerated here. |
July 24, 2008, 12:02 AM
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#71
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Machiavellian Prince
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Kuja, what i am saying is that we don't have the right to persecute people based on what we think is right or wrong.
if someone chooses to live in a country or society where something occurs, or where something is legal, thats their choice. Other countries shouldn't decide "nope, we don't like that you guys allow this/are doing this, so we're going to take military action"
The reason for this is what i've stated above many times. Morals are subjective. None of us have the right to say our beliefs or morals are better than someone elses. Just because something is abhorrent to us, does not mean we have to force everyone to live by our standards.
If rape is legal in that country, fine. Just don't go there. If you live there and you don't like that rape is legal, leave, overthrow the government, whatever. But if rape is legal in a country, and you live in another country and think "hmm, i don't like that, i shall invade them" Thats wrong, in my opinion.
What if another country was to decide "Wow, those guys actually allow the death penalty? Thats against human security, we need to invade them!"
Laws differ vastly from country to country. Allowing other countries to invade places which don't follow their laws, no matter what those laws may be, is a bad idea IMO.
__________________
Thanks to Mitsuki & Bei Bei for the sigs.
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July 24, 2008, 12:16 AM
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#72
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Greatest Villian Ever
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Decado
Kuja, what i am saying is that we don't have the right to persecute people based on what we think is right or wrong.
if someone chooses to live in a country or society where something occurs, or where something is legal, thats their choice. Other countries shouldn't decide "nope, we don't like that you guys allow this/are doing this, so we're going to take military action"
The reason for this is what i've stated above many times. Morals are subjective. None of us have the right to say our beliefs or morals are better than someone elses. Just because something is abhorrent to us, does not mean we have to force everyone to live by our standards.
If rape is legal in that country, fine. Just don't go there. If you live there and you don't like that rape is legal, leave, overthrow the government, whatever. But if rape is legal in a country, and you live in another country and think "hmm, i don't like that, i shall invade them" Thats wrong, in my opinion.
What if another country was to decide "Wow, those guys actually allow the death penalty? Thats against human security, we need to invade them!"
Laws differ vastly from country to country. Allowing other countries to invade places which don't follow their laws, no matter what those laws may be, is a bad idea IMO.
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Ok, sorry if I threw you off-topic, I just wasn't entirely sure what you were getting at, but now I know what you mean, and I somewhat agree.
I think people can think whatever they want, and if rape is legal in a country, I think that country is wrong, but I'm not going to gather an army just to enforce my belief on them.
I think in one U.S state, I forget which one, but you can legally hit your wife once a month or year(i forget also), thought that would be interesting to share ^^.
Thank you, And btw whats your avatar and sig pic? I've been meaning to ask for a while now 
- Kuja
__________________
I'll Never be just a memory...-Sephiroth 
Last edited by Sephir8th : July 24, 2008 at 12:29 AM.
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July 24, 2008, 1:36 AM
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#73
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Dreamer
Class: Full Member
Level: 1
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Examples of sciences being proven wrong: The world is flat, Something cannot be in two places at one time, The world is 10,000 years old, Going above 70mph would kill a man...
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Not science. It was primitive belief which came from the Bible.
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Iraq, Iran, Afgahnistan, Almost any south american country...
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All those countries should be annexed into the US and colonized.
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No it hasn't. ghengis Khans mongols for instance. There have been plenty of cultures in which women were property and were raped often. Your statement is completely factually incorrect.
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I thought you've studied history? Ghengis Khan's empire had some of the first human rights laws in history.
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In YOUR opinion, and opinion which MILLIONS of people do not share, maybe even billions. Thus proving that MORALS ARE SUBJECTIVE. I hope this is clear enough for you: Just because YOU think it is wrong, doesn't mean IT IS WRONG. Making sense now?
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Rape is wrong, but that's just my opinion. I should let the others decide if it's right or wrong because nothing is true, and I'm a nihilist.
Lol, I wasn't saying that about Aristotle I was saying that about your smarmy comment.
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Exactly. Thats what you're doing. You're saying because these people aren't "educated" That their morals don't count, and that yours are correct.  (See you saying that spanish people are paedophiles for an example)
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I'm saying that people who aren't educated in certain fields have no right to claim truth over someone who is. However, regarding morality, there are some things which are just intrinsic to all men. Rape is wrong, Altruism is good, etc...
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(See you saying that spanish people are paedophiles for an example)
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You're making shit up AGAIN. I never said that Spanish people are pedophiles, I said that any grown man/woman who has sex with a 14 year old is a pedophile. I'm not a Serb, I don't generalize nationalities... except maybe the French.
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Kuja, what i am saying is that we don't have the right to persecute people based on what we think is right or wrong.
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By this logic punishing thieves, murderers and rapists is a subjective wrong and we have no subjective right to do so.
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if someone chooses to live in a country or society where something occurs, or where something is legal, thats their choice.
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People don't choose where they are born and it is incredibly hard for any Zimbabwean to leave Zimbabwe. North Korea is also a good example, you try to leave, you get shot, you try to resist, you get a bullet in the head.
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Other countries shouldn't decide "nope, we don't like that you guys allow this/are doing this, so we're going to take military action"
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Yeah, it would have been wrong if the USSR, Great Britain or the US decided that even before they invaded Poland, the National-Socialist murder of so many people in Germany was wrong and decided to intervene to save them.
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If rape is legal in that country, fine. Just don't go there. If you live there and you don't like that rape is legal, leave, overthrow the government, whatever. But if rape is legal in a country, and you live in another country and think "hmm, i don't like that, i shall invade them" Thats wrong, in my opinion.
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Even regarding the impossibility of this scenario, lets say your neighbour's son was being beaten and sexually abused by his father, a police intervention by your standard is wrong and he (the boy) should either run away or kill his father.
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What if another country was to decide "Wow, those guys actually allow the death penalty? Thats against human security, we need to invade them!"
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That wouldn't happen... people don't invade other countries because they see one social policy as wrong. You're sure using a lot of unlikely hypothetical scenarios here aren't you Billy?
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Laws differ vastly from country to country. Allowing other countries to invade places which don't follow their laws, no matter what those laws may be, is a bad idea IMO.
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If their laws are morally superior they have a duty to annex another country. |
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July 24, 2008, 1:48 AM
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#74
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Virtuous
Class: Veteran Member
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Join Date: October 2006
Location: Amestris (pfft, I wish!)
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Guys, let's cut the sarcasm and stop getting so heated in here, alright? I really don't want to have to close out this thread. Any further questions, feel free to PM me.
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July 24, 2008, 1:52 AM
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#75
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Dreamer
Class: Full Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ♥Sayuri♥
Guys, let's cut the sarcasm and stop getting so heated in here, alright? I really don't want to have to close out this thread. Any further questions, feel free to PM me.
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Awww, sarcasm is the only thing I'm good at though, along with making cup cakes and being a self-righteous wanker. |
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July 24, 2008, 1:58 AM
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#76
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Virtuous
Class: Veteran Member
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The cupcakes part sounds good, the self-righteous wanker NOT so good. I'm just asking you guys to cool down, is all.  Anyway, I'll let you get back to your debate, just try and keep things cool or wait until you're calmed down before posting again. 
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July 24, 2008, 2:46 AM
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#77
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The Queen Of Cards.
Class: Senior Member
Level: 14
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Moderation Note:
This thread has seemingly strayed from the topic, and has been facilitating drama and offensive slurs. Quite frankly, a lot of posts within this thread have been worthy of infractions.
From this point on, I would like to see a drastic change in tone. No more sarcasm, no more rude remarks. Focus on the statements and debate your stand on the subject, don't insult others in the process.
This thread will be closed and an infraction will be issued for the next offensive post, because this has gone quite far enough.
With that said, please continue on...just tone it down, please.
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July 24, 2008, 5:28 AM
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#78
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Après moi, le déluge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Decado
Kuja, what i am saying is that we don't have the right to persecute people based on what we think is right or wrong.
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It's not persecuting, it is saving people from persecution. I'm not an expert on Zimbabwean culture, and don't claim to be. However, genocide, murder and torture are not part of their morals.
Mugabe and his supporters who carry out these things are in the minority. So if the majority of people in that country are against the murder etc, and the western world also condemns the actions, then something should be done.
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Made by RandomPokes. For great Justice
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dog Hunter
i just bought FF7 : DOC and when i put it inside my PS2 my PS2 brust into fire
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RIP Dog Hunter
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Originally Posted by D'lain
I use to admin a site called Xenocreation.
LOL it had over 1 million members
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Carve your name into my arm.
Instead of stressed, I lie here charmed.
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July 24, 2008, 5:43 AM
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#79
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Dreamer
Class: Full Member
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Quote:
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Mugabe and his supporters who carry out these things are in the minority. So if the majority of people in that country are against the murder etc, and the western world also condemns the actions, then something should be done.
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So no action should be taken from outside if the majority decides that a certain minority are the reason for everything bad in the country and thus decides to jail and/or torture them/have them shot/thrown into mass graves/etc... simply because it's majority opinion?
i.e. Rwanda, Serbia, Srpska, and Nazi Germany (before invasion of Poland) |
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