Put 9/11 Behind Us - Page 2

September 13, 2008, 8:41 AM

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Originally Posted by Katsky

Sure, but how was anything I said crude?

i found it to be rude. you said that islam is a "savage religion". i'd insult you now, but it seems that you have absolutely no capability to understand even the most basic of concepts, making anything i say futile.

however, i will say that the quran has a number of valuable and important moral lessons and values. these terrorists are islamic radicals. as in, they interpret the religious text in an extreme way. you know, there are a lot of people who do it to the bible, too.

and has everyone forgotten about the unibomber? not all terrorists are islamic radicals. *GASP* some of them can even be WHITE!

September 13, 2008, 8:51 AM

Quote:

i found it to be rude. you said that islam is a "savage religion". i'd insult you now, but it seems that you have absolutely no capability to understand even the most basic of concepts, making anything i say futile.

however, i will say that the quran has a number of valuable and important moral lessons and values. these terrorists are islamic radicals.

Yeah, sure, Islam is a beautiful morally good religion. Now for some random excerpts from the good book.

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A fire has been prepared for the disbelievers, whose fuel is men and stones. 2:24

Disbelievers will be burned with fire. 2:39, 90

Slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out ... If they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.--2:191

Fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah--2:193

One who attacketh you, attack him in like manner as he attacked you.--2:194

Those who disbelieve, their patrons are false deities. ... Such are rightful owners of the Fire. They will abide therein.--2:257

Choose not friends from them [unbelievers]. ... Take them and kill them wherever ye find them.--4:89

Take them [unbelivers] and kill them wherever ye find them. Against such We have given you clear warrant.--4:91

The disbelievers are an open enemy to you.--4:101

Choose not disbelievers for (your) friends in place of believers. Would ye give Allah a clear warrant against you?--4:144

Marry of the women two, or three, or four.--4:3

Women who are guilty of lewdness ... confine them to the houses until death take them.--4:15

Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other. ... So good women are the obedient. ... As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them.--4:34

Unto the male is the equivalent of the share of two females.--4:176
The Children of Israel ... We have cursed them and made hard their hearts--5:12-13

Christians ... We have stirred up enmity and hatred among them till the Day of Resurrection.--5:14

The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom.--5:33

Those who disbelieve ... Theirs will be a painful doom.--5:36

As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. ... An exemplary punishment from Allah.--5:38

The life for the life, and the eye for the eye, and the nose for the nose, and the ear for the ear, and the tooth for the tooth, and for wounds retaliation.--5:45

Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. ... He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them.--5:51

The Jews ... We have cast among them enmity and hatred till the Day of Resurrection.--5:64

Many a generation We destroyed ... and created after them another generation.--6:6

How many a township have We destroyed! As a raid by night, or while they slept at noon, Our terror came unto them.--7:4

They who deny Our revelations and scorn them - each are rightful owners of the Fire; they will abide therein.--7:36

I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger.--8:12

For disbelievers is the torment of the Fire.--8:14

Taste of the doom because ye disbelieve.--8:35

(The disbelievers) are a folk without intelligence.--8:65

Slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush.--9:5

Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith. Whoso of you taketh them for friends, such are wrong-doers.--9:23

The Jews ... and the Christians ... Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they!--9:30

On the day when it will (all) be heated in the fire of hell, and their foreheads and their flanks and their backs will be branded therewith--9:35

O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end.--9:73

A painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve.--9:90

O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you--9:123

The reward of disbelievers is the Fire.--13:35

Thou wilt see the guilty on that day linked together in chains, Their raiment of pitch, and the Fire covering their faces.--14:49-50

How many generations have We destroyed since Noah!--17:17

There is not a township but We shall destroy it ere the Day of Resurrection, or punish it with dire punishment.--17:58

But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads, Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron.--22:19-21

The fire burneth their faces, and they are glum therein.--23:104

Tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands or fathers or husbands' fathers, o ... or their slaves, or male attendants who lack vigour.... And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment.--24:31

Never be a helper to the disbelievers.--28:86

Obey not the disbelievers--33:1

He brought those of the People of the Scripture who supported them down from their strongholds, and cast panic into their hearts. Some ye slew, and ye made captive some.--33:26

O ye wives of the Prophet! Ye are not like any other women. ... Stay in your houses.--33:32-3

O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad).--33:59

And if We will, We drown them, and there is no help for them, neither can they be saved;--36:43

Those who argue concerning Allah ... wrath is upon them and theirs will be an awful doom.--42:16

(And it will be said): Take him and drag him to the midst of hell, Then pour upon his head the torment of boiling water.--44:47-48
Those who disbelieve will deny ... give them tidings of a painful doom.--84:22-24

Whoso ... disbelieveth Allah will punish him with direst punishment.--88:23

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as in, they interpret the religious text in an extreme way. you know, there are a lot of people who do it to the bible, too.

Yeah, but the New Testament is largely pacifistic in nature and Jesus installed New Covenant law which overrode the archaic Old Covenant law.

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and has everyone forgotten about the unibomber? not all terrorists are islamic radicals. *GASP* some of them can even be WHITE!

I never mentioned race, there are Muslims in all races. Bosnia is a predominately Islamic white nation. But you have to understand the unibomber wasn't raised from birth being taught that such a book as the Quran as manifest truth.

September 13, 2008, 10:54 AM

Saying that Islamic religion is a 'savage religion' is a pretty ignorant comment. Out of over 1.5 billion Muslims you'd probably find over 96/97% of them don't follow and probably don't believe in the quotes you've taken from the Qur'an and are generally very decent people.

You can't just dismiss what it used to say in the Bible because some random guy installed a 'New Covenant Law' because the fact is, it used to be in the bible nonetheless, whether it is still there or not is irrelevant.

As for 9/11, I'll personally say that 21/7 is the closest we have come and as far as I'm aware, people who had relatives in the 21/7 bombings find it VERY difficult to let it go so 9/11 having a massively bigger death/injury rate it must be near impossible to put it behind you.

September 13, 2008, 11:11 AM

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Saying that Islamic religion is a 'savage religion' is a pretty ignorant comment. Out of over 1.5 billion Muslims you'd probably find over 96/97% of them don't follow and probably don't believe in the quotes you've taken from the Qur'an and are generally very decent people.

I'm not attacking Muslims, I'm attacking Islam, and even so, I know many Muslims are decent people, but it doesn't make the teachings of their religion any less backward.

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You can't just dismiss what it used to say in the Bible because some random guy installed a 'New Covenant Law' because the fact is, it used to be in the bible nonetheless, whether it is still there or not is irrelevant.

I'm not "dismissing" the Old Testament, it's part of Abrahamic heritage. But that's like saying after the French revolution, France was still somehow under the ancien regime because "it used to be under the ancien regime", actually it's so ridiculous I feel like bashing my head against a wall now. I'm not Christian, but Christianity is more or less a docile pacifistic religion in our modern times, even going as far as to make up new doctrine which appears nowhere in the Bible that "God loves everyone". While Islam is a violent savage religion that even Hitler commended saying he "Wished the German people were Muslims" over their current pacifistic Christianity-

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"It is only with the Roman empire where one can say that culture was a factor under the government. The government of the Arabs in Spain too was infinitely distinguished: Many scientists, thinkers, astronomers, mathematicians, one of the most humane times, at the same time as a colossal knighthood. When, later, Christianity came there, then one can say: barbarians. The knighthood that the Castilians have is actually one of Arab heritage. If Charles Martel had not overcome in Poitiers: since the Jewish world already seized us - that Christianity is something well of insipid - we would have better received Mohammedanism, those doctrines of the reward of heroism-: combatants alone have the seventh heaven! With that the Germans would have conquered the world. It is only by Christianity that we have been held distant.

September 13, 2008, 11:43 AM

It's nice how a topic of 9/11 turned into a religious debate.

Anyway, I don't see why we would need to 'put it behind us'. That is like saying to put days like Pearl Harbor behind is, well worse, if I'm correct we lost more people on 9/11 then Pearl Harbor. That would be like saying, get rid of memorial day and put those old wars behind us.

All we are doing is respecting and honoring those who died on that day. I think the deserve that at least.

September 13, 2008, 1:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gray Fox

It's nice how a topic of 9/11 turned into a religious debate.

Anyway, I don't see why we would need to 'put it behind us'. That is like saying to put days like Pearl Harbor behind is, well worse, if I'm correct we lost more people on 9/11 then Pearl Harbor. That would be like saying, get rid of memorial day and put those old wars behind us.

All we are doing is respecting and honoring those who died on that day. I think the deserve that at least.

Eh, sums my feelings on the matter up pretty well tbqh. Why should we put it behind us? It's not like it's an inconieience or anything, it's remembering an atrocity and trying to prevent it happening again.

Or we could just forget about it and wait til the next terrorist attack happens....

September 13, 2008, 1:58 PM

Katsky, Stay on topic and stop bashing others religions in a topic thats meant to talk about a tragic event in History. Any further off topic posts or 1-2 sentence replies will be infracted for.

Anyways, It's all and good that Bushy-Boy wants to find the " masterminds" behind it and whatnot, but cmon, he seriously thinks that sending thousands of troops in to bring em to justice will work? Yes, after that event, many citizens were wishing for revenge, but what is more important? Revenge or Remembrance? Personally, we should focus on making the nation stronger and united. Since this war has started, it's done nothing but hurt the country more and more and deprive many families of their loved ones. It needs to stop. We need to focus on building for a better and safer future, but not to the point where we lose all sense of civil freedom for the sake of security.

(blegh, i talk too much)

September 13, 2008, 6:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katsky

Please read the Quran.

Please read the Bible. There's plenty of needless violence, incest, and intolerance. Actually, please read almost every religious text that is at least a few hundred years old.

The vast majority of Muslims I have encountered are no more backwards or savage than the vast majority of Christians I have met.

Unless of course, you are claiming that all religions are savage and backward. Which is a whole nother argument.

September 13, 2008, 6:15 PM

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Please read the Bible. There's plenty of needless violence, incest, and intolerance. Actually, please read almost every religious text that is at least a few hundred years old.

I have and if you have yourself you'll know that most of that draconian text is in the Old Testament which was valid up until the installation of the New Covenant by Jesus.

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The vast majority of Muslims I have encountered are no more backwards or savage than the vast majority of Christians I have met.

Please don't resort to ad hominem arguments. I've never said Muslim people are backwards, merely their religion. Also, you don't live in the Middle East where Muslims aren't raised under the wonderful social liberal culture we have in the West.

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Unless of course, you are claiming that all religions are savage and backward. Which is a whole nother argument.

No, not all. Christianity, as I've said is rather peaceful and docile in our modern age, so is Judaism (even though their central text is so socially draconian and archaic, and except for certain customs, even they hardly obey it). And Dharmic religions in our century are more or less peaceful in nature, less can be said about what they were like before Western civilization, slavery, the caste system, and beheadings come to mind when I think of old Buddhists and Hindus. But my focus was centrally Islam and even so, this is getting very off topic.