No real topic. - Page 4

March 9, 2008, 10:53 PM

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Originally Posted by Korytco

Already answered this if you read the whole thread that may help.

I just got here, so I posted what I felt about it. Don't think I'm trying to disprove your points or anything. But if you can at least admit it's not a crime to breathe, you can at least admit that if you like something, even if trivial and not necessarily for survival, you would have to ask yourself if you like it because everyone else hates it, or you like it because you feel that it suits your needs and tastes best. If it is the former, then you are letting yourself be controlled by the sheep (or the object, I guess), and if it is the latter, you are doing what you feel is best. It doesn't matter if it's original or not; it only matters if you know yourself best.

Now I think I would like to mention that it would be interesting to step away from the sheep occasionally, but there's no reason to go completely anti-conformist just for the sake of not being a sheep--it might simply be your own aversions that lead to this, but it's kind of like society. It's not the best, but at least it's ideal and it works to some extent. If you agreed with anything in society, it would be mutual, and you agree with it, for possibly different reasons than everyone else. If you disagreed, there would be a good reason, but by no means does this have to apply to everything.

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You are free to do what ever you want this is a philosophy no need to freak out everyone. I do not see how a creative mathematical mind relates , actually if you think about it sides with me. There is a difference between a student and a creator always. I fail to see how you got the point here.

I mentioned the mathematical R^3 space because it's highly abstract. If you don't know what it is, it's a coordinate system or 3-D plane which you can put 3-D objects on. The only difference is that there is absolutely nothing on it, so you can think of it as being a completely empty space with nothing in it at all. Now that there is nothing on this space, and you might not know any properties about it at all, can you derive any original thoughts on your own?

But a student can also be a creator. The student, although still learning, might be able to come up with a better use for what he has learned, make better connections between what he has learned, and simply found a more efficient means for using what he has learned.

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If you create it , is original and it was using math already there to alter it , I never said it was a sin to control but as soon as people start learning it will control , I just do not want them to be students forever and not to invent and create originality with the knowledge, is that so very wrong of me? To expect great things ?

The thing is that most ideas in math aren't entirely original. A theorem or idea might have been proposed by someone half a century ago, but the proof of it never appeared until much later, and done by someone else. Furthermore, one could view the whole of mathematics as being purely abstract, and therefore, there wasn't a time when mathematical ideas did not exist--they were simply discovered. And the people who discover an idea that isn't entirely original might still be worth crediting, just not necessarily for the "originality" of it.

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Do you not understand me, this is the point of the whole thread in a likeliness.....*slaps head* YES , that is the point !....*sighs deeper* you are an inventor , creator , you are not controlled by basic things but you use them to create an abstract world, of problem solving and you do not need regular objects to see how to live life and solve situations , but instead you roller skate to work, and slove math problems. DONT YOU GET THIS ? You save money, you are inventive, creative, you are the very point of this thread.

I was just expressing myself. I thought you were coming from the extreme end of anti-conformist, so I just mentioned that.

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Again, to dismiss what I consider control and to be effective as an independent.

I mentioned this because you might say that using logic and reason isn't entirely original, but it is inherently a part of mathematics. But I guess if you use logic and reason in a different way, it makes sense, so long as it's still logical and rational.

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That is the point.....I dont get why you are arguing it. Perhaps you should read this thread over. That is my point every sees an object 1 dimensionally , this can include math as well. I do no argue evolution but I do argue expensive spoon feed materialistic items and knowledge if you will. I encourage creativity and invention.

I'm not, I'm just expressing myself. But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't ever use an object as it's intended. If you do, it's only because it works that way and is practical. If you have complaints about how it works, you're free to change it to suit your needs. Although I think the idea of reinventing the wheel is more significant for mathematics and problem solving in general than it is for everyday objects.

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Why not recycle and build things, why pollute the EArth, is it sucha nasty wish?

I mentioned this because you suggested that reinventing a wheel means you're exerting independent thought, but it's not anymore independent than the object that already exists. To create the said object exerts more independent thought than it does to reinvent it.

March 9, 2008, 10:58 PM

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Originally Posted by Korytco

Why not recycle and build things, why pollute the EArth, is it sucha nasty wish?

THAT was your point? To recycle? What the hell was so hard about saying that in the first place. Good christ, you keep shouting THAT R NOT THE POINT to me and you only now say it's to recycle?

Either way, there's no need to reduce humanity to scavengers digging through trash. Like major zero said, it's THANKS to advancements in technology that we're discovering ways to be environmentally friendly. Hell, the last week or so the TV stations have been bombarded with ads by Clorox for their new line of "green" cleaning products that are safer.

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Originally Posted by Korytco

Yes, we can materialism , pollution will be the end of us all. Just a hypothesis here.

The world's gonna end eventually anyway. The sun will go out, plants will die, oxygen will go away, and everything on this planet will die. So I don't care. Besides, compare us to China and we don't look so bad

March 9, 2008, 11:01 PM

The problem is probably that we won't live long enough to see the end of it. I don't really care enough about the world after I die, and it does sound pessimistic, but I only have the time to worry about what will happen to me in my lifetime, and it doesn't include much outside of mathematics. Simply put, there are things people care and don't care about, and they're not universal to everyone.

March 9, 2008, 11:01 PM

I never necessarily said it had to be completely original , I just mean to say an object should not be limited in its use. Sure you can use some objects for their intents but why not create something every once in a while too ? Make something out 2 things , save a buck or 2 or 100 and expand your horizons.

The idea is not closed minded if I failed to express it rationally I aplogize. I merely meant that things should not control us , and we should not be limited by those things. We should use objects for as many solutions as possible.

Just a bit of creative thinking, I never said we needed extremists.

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Originally Posted by VengefulRonin

THAT was your point? To recycle? What the hell was so hard about saying that in the first place. Good christ, you keep shouting THAT R NOT THE POINT to me and you only now say it's to recycle?

Either way, there's no need to reduce humanity to scavengers digging through trash. Like major zero said, it's THANKS to advancements in technology that we're discovering ways to be environmentally friendly. Hell, the last week or so the TV stations have been bombarded with ads by Clorox for their new line of "green" cleaning products that are safer.

I said it to him because it made sense at the time. This is not entirely about recycling and you were not understanding points previously being discussed. No issue is completely closed off and every thing can be further examined.

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Originally Posted by VengefulRonin

The world's gonna end eventually anyway. The sun will go out, plants will die, oxygen will go away, and everything on this planet will die. So I don't care. Besides, compare us to China and we don't look so bad

That does not mean there is no time to improve left .

March 9, 2008, 11:12 PM

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Originally Posted by Korytco

Think about it. None of us are independent thinkers. Not a single one of us. Consider all the objects in your home , every single object , nearly , tells you when and how to use it subconsciously. Everything you do, and think is not really independent at all, every word , every action, every object you own.

You have been taught the basics and in the end you do not use any of those basics. The more life goes on the more and more you follow the mainstream events, and on all varying levels. From drinking from a cup , to using a blanket at home properly , to going to work each day.

Everything works a specific way and is used in a specific way. Everything is invented because of similar wants and needs of man. No one is that special and they continue to all be prisoners of their own devices.

Every object in your room tells you how to think, a empty glass, a control remote, an old war grenade, magazines, books and everything else.

You are under constant control by every item around you. Every item around you tells you how to act. We chose the items that we enjoy when they provoke actions and feelings that we want to experience in life.
We let all those items control us.

A new car, for example. Controls your life before as you work hard for it, and then after wards it still controls it, I do not have to explain everything , you can see why , just use your brains.

Is it possible that life is better lived finding true, independence and control rather than following the herd like a sheep?

Every object is controlling your life. If you used every object improperly , differently than ever before, would you find enlightenment and would you discover newer, greater things in life than anyother person ?

Underlined because it is a weird idea.

You must realize that true independence is quite a myth, because we always end up depending on someone or something to sustain our life and make it more bearable. The few control the many, it has always been the order of life. Leader leads, followers follow, simple as that. Yet there are times in which we might break from that chain, that order, granting us the ability to think beyond the shell created for us. For example, the people in a city just serve to sustain its economy, and only a few serve to make sure the stability of said community is kept under control. The many consumes the products which at the same time generates the money used by the true leaders to produce money, so that they can keep the control.

Consider it as a chess game. First we have the chess board, which would serve as the country, home or battlefield depending on the situation. Second we have the pawns, which are the people with the different roles given to each individual. Third we have the bishops and cavaliers (horses) which serve as the merchants, industries, the true power of the army, and the pillars which sustain the economy and dominance of a country. Then we have the Queen which is the group consisting of the leaders of the Army, the Police, the whole government whose sole purpose is to ensure the existence of the King. The king is the face of said government, but not the true leader, whose sole purpose is to give people the hope of seeing a leader to follow, or someone to blame for the mistakes committed by the government.

Finally we have the master hand, the puppeteer, the one pulling the strings, the true power behind the throne whose name shall remain unspoken.

March 9, 2008, 11:15 PM

Please, I am not a machine, I can not argue with all the intelligent posters in here.

Can I add I never meant for absolutes, and extremes I just meant to encourage a bit more of an effort of independence and creativity , inventions.

Thinking with less limitations and acting with less limitations .

March 9, 2008, 11:17 PM

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Think about it. None of us are independent thinkers. Not a single one of us. Consider all the objects in your home , every single object , nearly , tells you when and how to use it subconsciously. Everything you do, and think is not really independent at all, every word , every action, every object you own.

I think this is the reason people react so strongly towards it. You said "none" of us are independent thinkers in a way that made it seem that none of us reinvent at all.

March 9, 2008, 11:22 PM

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Originally Posted by Angelus-Mortis

I think this is the reason people react so strongly towards it. You said "none" of us are independent thinkers in a way that made it seem that none of us reinvent at all.

You are right I give man no credit. I have little faith in even my parents. You made me realize that a bit more today.

March 9, 2008, 11:23 PM

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Originally Posted by Korytco

Please, I am not a machine, I can not argue with all the intelligent posters in here.

Can I add I never meant for absolutes, and extremes I just meant to encourage a bit more of an effort of independence and creativity , inventions.

Oh no, no, no, we encourage you to keep stating your points and defend them. You will encounter many obstacles in your way, but in the end you'll earn knowledge in the process. For example, Angelus is most likely to defend his statements with mathematic, which is a good strategy which allows us to have a way to prove it. I, on the other hand, use examples and comparisons, for example, I compared the functions of a country with a chess board and the pieces, due to my