No real topic. - Page 3

March 9, 2008, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major Zero

Are tools taking advantage of people? No. People use tools to take advantage of other people.

To me yes, because you pay businesses to make your life easy and in the end you never learn to grow and develop to build your own things, to create and invent . Which surely would inspire intellectual growth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major Zero

True, alot of things people do not need, but others have become valuable assets and everyday neccessities for modern man.

You are not thinking about this in the same way , but I do not think it is the wrong way. See, your view is too accepting what you call a necessities is something that just links to someone else and makes you boring, I call it a choice. I look for alternatives.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major Zero

Like junk medicines, they line the pockets of companies, and don't do anything to help at all. People do not need them, they are even harmful. That's what trade regulations are for.

Consumerism and economic growth cannot go on at this rate unchecked, either, perhaps an equilibrium will be found, or perhaps we will continue this growth using offworld resources. Perhaps there will be a totally different economic and political system in one hundred years, which is sustainable. We may be able to recycle most goods and raw materials highly efficiently.
One can only speculate.

Why not recycle , and create ? Why not use raw materials more efficiently that is alot of what I am on about here. Why pollute with it ? When it can be used? Why not go and make something out of it?

March 9, 2008, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Korytco

Not selfish, I just do not want people taken advantage of. I want people to explore alternatives and create "new tools" with existing tools yes, but to use simple tools for more effective, meaningful purposes. So that they can be more for filled and not as simplified. So that they wont just be puppets wasting money on more expensive products and so that they can expand their horizons .

Did you mean fulfilled?

So basically you want us all to become inventors and stop being materialistic. You fail to realize that just by inventing new things, they would inevitably become new mass-produced tools.

Quote:

I never said to live in the trees but if you can use the trees to live in and stick it to the man then I am all for it.

Can I fling my dung at passers by too?

Quote:

I see nothing selfish about any of it. I do not look for negative solutions to things, sorry .

Well you said you wanted people create, think and live for themselves. Generally things are created as a way to help or convenience man at large, not made to be horded.

Quote:

I never said to use none of the original tools, you are changing the point there again. I simply said that every object controls our lives because it was meant to be something in our lives but maybe we can find other uses for it.

So what, I'm supposed to find other uses for my car and toothbrush and camera and whatnot? Things are created to fulfill roles in the household and whatever else. They're made with a purpose. They don't control us, they're a part of life and work fine the way they are. I don't want to find a new use for my computer, it works fine as a way to access mai internets.

When I was a teenager I went through the same phase as you, the whole "POSSESHUNS R BAD WE NEED TO GO BACK TO NATURE AND PHILOSOPHIZE" thing. You'll grow out of it eventually and realize that it's a ridiculous idea. The only way you'll see your ideals realized is if you move to a third world country. Possessions are helpful and nice to have, they're part of society. lrn2deal with it.

March 9, 2008, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Korytco

Think about it. None of us are independent thinkers. Not a single one of us. Consider all the objects in your home , every single object , nearly , tells you when and how to use it subconsciously. Everything you do, and think is not really independent at all, every word , every action, every object you own.

You have been taught the basics and in the end you do not use any of those basics. The more life goes on the more and more you follow the mainstream events, and on all varying levels. From drinking from a cup , to using a blanket at home properly , to going to work each day.

Everything works a specific way and is used in a specific way. Everything is invented because of similar wants and needs of man. No one is that special and they continue to all be prisoners of their own devices.

Every object in your room tells you how to think, a empty glass, a control remote, an old war grenade, magazines, books and everything else.

You are under constant control by every item around you. Every item around you tells you how to act. We chose the items that we enjoy when they provoke actions and feelings that we want to experience in life.
We let all those items control us.

A new car, for example. Controls your life before as you work hard for it, and then after wards it still controls it, I do not have to explain everything , you can see why , just use your brains.

Is it possible that life is better lived finding true, independence and control rather than following the herd like a sheep?

Every object is controlling your life. If you used every object improperly , differently than ever before, would you find enlightenment and would you discover newer, greater things in life than anyother person ?

Underlined because it is a weird idea.

So should I stop breathing because everyone else is doing it?

It is true that maybe all our thoughts are not independent, either because they've already existed and been brought to light by others, even if you discovered it yourself, but then if I lived completely in a mathematical space like R^3 on my own, is it entirely possible to come up with original ideas? Why does it matter so much that my ideas are independent, so much as the purpose for which these ideas are being used? So maybe they're not original, and maybe I was influenced by something, but if they are practical and work, there's no reason I need to worry about its originality.

But there are some objects which compel me not at all. A new car happens not to be one of those things. I see it only as a means of transportation, one that has been devised by engineers and mechanics, using the principles of science and technology, but because I rarely need to go for far distances, and am perfectly fine with rollerblades, which beats most of traffic anyways, I am not compelled to buy one. I rollerblade because it is not only more convenient, but because I have used the concepts of physics to understand how they work. It may not be original, but it works for me, and I do not concern myself with whether or not the rollerblades themselves are "controlling" me or not.

Now my idea of enlightenment is different from others. For I find revelation, not in everyday life objects, but in abstract things like mathematics, and problem solving. And one of the key things about ideas and problems in math is that you don't need any objects to think about in order to come up with a mathematical idea. It is probably true that logic and reason are key to math, but not using them would mean we are no longer dwelling in the realms of mathematics, but something else entirely. But this idea applies not just to objects, but also to math as well--it is not using the concepts or objects "improperly" so much as differently, and for a different purpose. This can only be achieved if you attach no bias as to what the object or concept was "meant" for. It's the concept of restricting your mind to something that binds people unable to come up with new ideas.

Though I will say that using an object for purposes other than intended is just another way of reinventing the wheel. It's not quite the same as inventing the wheel itself, an act which probably has more significance than reinventing the wheel itself might.

March 9, 2008, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VengefulRonin

Did you mean fulfilled?

So basically you want us all to become inventors and stop being materialistic. You fail to realize that just by inventing new things, they would inevitably become new mass-produced tools.

Self produced tools from junk around the house makes you into a mass-produced tool ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by VengefulRonin

Can I fling my dung at passers by too?

Ya know , I am really trying to be open , mature with you but I really suggest that you are not so radical in the future. Being too radical of anything is not the best thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VengefulRonin

Well you said you wanted people create, think and live for themselves. Generally things are created as a way to help or convenience man at large, not made to be horded.

You think this is a fair world ? I dont money is wasted on products you could wield together from junk out of a dumpster.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VengefulRonin

So what, I'm supposed to find other uses for my car and toothbrush and camera and whatnot? Things are created to fulfill roles in the household and whatever else. They're made with a purpose. They don't control us, they're a part of life and work fine the way they are. I don't want to find a new use for my computer, it works fine as a way to access mai internets.

You are not thinking about this in the same way , but I do not think it is the wrong way. See, your view is too accepting what you call a necessities is something that just links to someone else and makes you boring, I call it a choice. I look for alternatives to express independence and spare resources.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VengefulRonin

When I was a teenager I went through the same phase as you, the whole "POSSESHUNS R BAD WE NEED TO GO BACK TO NATURE AND PHILOSOPHIZE" thing. You'll grow out of it eventually and realize that it's a ridiculous idea. The only way you'll see your ideals realized is if you move to a third world country. Possessions are helpful and nice to have, they're part of society. lrn2deal with it.

No, I am going to make things out of junk when I get older. I will spare resources, do you know how bade the ozone is because of factories and things being produced that we already have? I could go make a bike for trash with a wielder I am sure.

March 9, 2008, 10:16 PM

Quote:

When I was a teenager I went through the same phase as you, the whole "POSSESHUNS R BAD WE NEED TO GO BACK TO NATURE AND PHILOSOPHIZE" thing. You'll grow out of it eventually and realize that it's a ridiculous idea. The only way you'll see your ideals realized is if you move to a third world country. Possessions are helpful and nice to have, they're part of society. lrn2deal with it.

Agreed. Anarcho-Primitivism has no place within the modern world. Humanity is dependent on technology, it is the way we live. And our nature is to constantly evolve our technological and knowledge base and advance. You get the drift. What a terrible waste it would be if we regressed to the dark ages. Making tools out of scrap, however, improvising, is admirable, if you want to utilise the maximum potential of every unit.

March 9, 2008, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Korytco

Self produced tools from junk around the house makes you into a mass-produced tool ?

Well if it was from junk, then no. Nobody would want it.

Quote:

Ya know , I am really trying to be open , mature with you but I really suggest that you are not so radical in the future. Being too radical of anything is not the best thing.

Whoopsie

Quote:

You think this is a fair world ? I dont money is wasted on products you could wield together from junk out of a dumpster.

Ohhhhhhh, I get it now. You want use to be like those crazy old men inventing stuff in their garages out of household crap. Nothnx.

Quote:

You are not thinking about this in the same way , but I do not think it is the wrong way. See, your view is too accepting what you call a necessities is something that just links to someone else and makes you boring, I call it a choice. I look for alternatives to express independence and spare resources.

There are better, more rational, and more productive ways to express independence.

Quote:

No, I am going to make things out of junk when I get older. I will spare resources, do you know how bade the ozone is because of factories and things being produced that we already have? I could go make a bike for trash with a wielder I am sure.

I was right

Well you go do that. You'll probably get tetanus from the rusted metal. I'll stick to buying factory-made things that I know will work and have been tested for safe use.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major Zero

Agreed. Anarcho-Primitivism has no place within the modern world. Humanity is dependent on technology, it is the way we live. And our nature is to constantly evolve our technological and knowledge base and advance. You get the drift. What a terrible waste it would be if we regressed to the dark ages. Making tools out of scrap, however, improvising, is admirable, if you want to utilise the maximum potential of every unit.

Glad someone gets it. Seriously, you won't get anywhere in life if you're determined to not buy into consumerism. It's how things work. Enjoy making things out of trash while we have nice cushy lives

March 9, 2008, 10:29 PM

Quote: