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| The Sleeping Forest Forum for serious discussions on important issues. Debating is encouraged. Spam will not be tolerated here. |
March 9, 2008, 4:43 PM
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#11
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White Mage
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesper Lynd
I don't think you are insane, you are entitled to your own opinion. Like I said before, I understand what you mean, but if that means abandoning everything I own and living like Mowgli the mancub then no thanks.
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What if we reinvent the idea. Not to abandon everything but to use it more efficiently than the masses some how . It would be extremely hard but that does not mean it is not possible. Inventors and creators.
You understand, I will leave it at that . You are not on the spot. I am being open minded you have nothing to prove to anyone, and I do not feel like I have anything to prove to you.
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March 9, 2008, 4:51 PM
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#12
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Meet me in Montauk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Korytco
What if we reinvent the idea. Not to abandon everything but to use it more efficiently than the masses some how . It would be extremely hard but that does not mean it is not possible. Inventors and creators.
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Well that's.. interesting. Can you give me an example though? I mean, I doubt you are meaning something as simple as using a book as an umbrella, but then again, maybe you are. You can't avoid the fact that some things are invented for our convenience though. If you buy a car, it will more likely be because it is a quicker way of getting from A to B, and not to fry bacon on the engine. It's not so much that we aren't 'independant thinkers'.. we are just too lazy to be creative with objects, when it is much easier to buy an object suited to the purpose that you want it for.
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March 9, 2008, 5:17 PM
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#13
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White Mage
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesper Lynd
Well that's.. interesting. Can you give me an example though? I mean, I doubt you are meaning something as simple as using a book as an umbrella, but then again, maybe you are. You can't avoid the fact that some things are invented for our convenience though. If you buy a car, it will more likely be because it is a quicker way of getting from A to B, and not to fry bacon on the engine. It's not so much that we aren't 'independant thinkers'.. we are just too lazy to be creative with objects, when it is much easier to buy an object suited to the purpose that you want it for.
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That is one possibility of trying the idea all together. Is to find more effective , less buisness profitable alternatives to inventions. Man inventing and creating instead of man being cheated by business profitable creations.
I do not think books should be used in destructive matters no , unless the destruction creates a more efficent result. Or if its a bad book then bring on the umbrellia, if it is s a cheap book .
There are varying forms of agreement and disagreement, the idea is radical but that does not mean it can not be used effectively. The trick is discovering people that can find an example for you.
I admit some things do make our lives more convient but perhaps if changed, altered even more convient .
Last edited by Korytco : March 9, 2008 at 5:30 PM.
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March 9, 2008, 8:47 PM
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#14
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Perfectly sane
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These objects, and tools, have pre-defined uses. We use them to achieve a desired outcome, or not... if they are ineffective at performing a certain task. It is hardly anything to do with thinking. We often do it subconsciously, once we've learned how to do it. We operate devices in order to make our lives "easier".
A calculator has only one obvious use, but you can use its components to improvise if needs be, or if you are just feeling creative. Whether we need things, well that's another matter. It's up to marketing and your own conscious and subconscious needs and desires. For another thread.
It's nothing to do with independence of thought. We just see in devices a purpose, and use them. They don't use us. They don't control us. We are often dependent on technology, yes, we take it for granted, and let's face it, why do complex sums in your head when you could use a calculator, unless you find doing complex sums fun?
Tools are a part of everyday life, we take them for granted.
It does not affect independence of thought, unless a certain device nulls independence of thought, such as television. Generally, technology does not affect political opinions by itself. It does not affect ideas by itself. Books may be channels for ideas and entertainment, television may be a medium through which dumb, gullible sheep are told what to think, etc, or not so dumb people watch programmes whilst thinking independently.
Guns function by driving projectiles at high speed, to impact upon a target, causing damage. It so happens that the ideal, and most used purpose of a gun is to cause destruction in one way or another.
I get what you're saying, but we have used and invented tools since prehistory. A pencil does not affect my political opinions. I use it subconsciously, for its designed purpose, most of the time.
It is normal for humans as a species to use tools in one way or another.
Sorry for being a bit long-winded there.
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March 9, 2008, 9:14 PM
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#15
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Banned
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Korytco
You have been taught the basics and in the end you do not use any of those basics. The more life goes on the more and more you follow the mainstream events, and on all varying levels. From drinking from a cup , to using a blanket at home properly , to going to work each day.
Everything works a specific way and is used in a specific way. Everything is invented because of similar wants and needs of man. No one is that special and they continue to all be prisoners of their own devices.
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Yeah, it's called necessity. Or convenience.
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A new car, for example. Controls your life before as you work hard for it, and then after wards it still controls it, I do not have to explain everything , you can see why , just use your brains.
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Again, 'tis called necessity. Cars are necessary for transportation. And who wants to drive around in an old piece of crap? Naturally you're going to work for a new car, it's nicer to drive around in a car with AC and a CD player and whatever else and not have to be embarrassed and look like a poor sap living in the ghetto.
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Is it possible that life is better lived finding true, independence and control rather than following the herd like a sheep?
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Free your miiiiiiiiinds, man. It's groooovy.
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Every object is controlling your life. If you used every object improperly , differently than ever before, would you find enlightenment and would you discover newer, greater things in life than anyother person ?
Underlined because it is a weird idea.
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So if I used my TV remote as a dildo, would I get enlightenment from it? Or if I used a glass as a pencil holder, rather than drinking out of it, would I become enlightened? No.
It's called society. That's how things go. Material possessions are necessary, convenient, satisfying, and show status. If you want to live a life without that stuff, you might as well move to a third-world country and grow crops. Or become Amish. OH WAIT NVM. The Amish make chairs and barns and canned jams, they're just as bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Korytco
Not necessarily perhaps you can find clothes in a new way, use objects spontaneously and learn to invent, create and I am talking about things far greater than clothes with that path that could be taken.
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lolwut? So instead of us being "controlled" by things that have already been invented, you want us to invent stuff of our own and contribute to the cycle? What are we supposed to do, string together blades of grass into kilts? Geez.
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March 9, 2008, 9:25 PM
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#16
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~The Gift of The Goddess~
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It just doesn't make sense to me at all , because if we suddenly decided to start from scratch and reinvent all this stuff, we'd only end up relying on this new stuff anyway wouldn't we?O_o
I don't even know if Im missing the point alltogether cause this thread confused me from the off
If anyone wanted to take my internetz away from me, they would have to fight me for it 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aztec Triogal
Alright... that's just so wrong. The only thing worse than surprise buttsecks is surprise cucumber buttsecks...
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March 9, 2008, 9:27 PM
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#17
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White Mage
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VengefulRonin
Yeah, it's called necessity. Or convenience.
Again, 'tis called necessity. Cars are necessary for transportation. And who wants to drive around in an old piece of crap? Naturally you're going to work for a new car, it's nicer to drive around in a car with AC and a CD player and whatever else and not have to be embarrassed and look like a poor sap living in the ghetto.
Missing the point.
Free your miiiiiiiiinds, man. It's groooovy.
So if I used my TV remote as a dildo, would I get enlightenment from it? Or if I used a glass as a pen
cil holder, rather than drinking out of it, would I become enlightened? No. No one said to try an action like a fool , I never suggested that. Again, missing the point.
It's called society. That's how things go. Material possessions are necessary, convenient, satisfying, and show status. If you want to live a life without that stuff, you might as well move to a third-world country and grow crops. Or become Amish. OH WAIT NVM. The Amish make chairs and barns and canned jams, they're just as bad.
Not the point.
lolwut? So instead of us being "controlled" by things that have already been invented, you want us to invent stuff of our own and contribute to the cycle? What are we supposed to do, string together blades of grass into kilts? Geez.
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No, I want people to continously create, think and live for theirselves not to control others. No. Not the point again.
We can not have an argument or even conversation because we do not understand this text in the same manner. This is not what I was trying to suggest or argue and you blatantly are looking for its negatives. I wont argue with someone who bases his side with negative remarks when he is not arguing the same point as myself , nor will I exchange negative vibes .
Last edited by Korytco : March 9, 2008 at 9:30 PM.
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March 9, 2008, 9:32 PM
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#18
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Banned
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Korytco
No, I want people to continously create, think and live for theirselves not to control others. No. Not the point again.
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And I want you to quit replying in goddamn quotes. It's not that hard to separate a quote into bits. I'm doing it rite nao.
Now, as for creating, um....we'd need pre-existing tools to do that. And education. Which would involve tools. Your point seems rather hippie-ish and nonsensical.
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We can not have an argument or even conversation because we do not understand this text in the same manner. This is not what I was try to suggest or argue and you blatantly are looking for its negatives.
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Well then why don't you try explaining it better? Because from all you've said, I can only gather three themes:
1. Go live with the trees.
2. Make new things to inevitably replace the current tools "controlling" people.
3. Be a selfish bastard and live only for yourself.
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March 9, 2008, 9:51 PM
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#19
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White Mage
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Not selfish, I just do not want people taken advantage of. I want people to explore alternatives and create "new tools" with existing tools yes, but to use simple tools for more effective, meaningful purposes. So that they can be more for filled and not as simplified. So that they wont just be puppets wasting money on more expensive products and so that they can expand their horizons .
I never said to live in the trees but if you can use the trees to live in and stick it to the man then I am all for it.
I see nothing selfish about any of it. I do not look for negative solutions to things, sorry .
I never said to use none of the original tools, you are changing the point there again. I simply said that every object controls our lives because it was meant to be something in our lives but maybe we can find other uses for it.
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March 9, 2008, 9:59 PM
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#20
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Perfectly sane
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