Gun Control - Page 2

March 8, 2008, 1:45 PM

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Originally Posted by VengefulRonin

Thanks for contributing to the topic and giving us your opinion on gun control *sarcasm*

So first off I can tell you have an ego, or at least some sort of problem with me.

Now to discuss your silly paper, here's a few things:
This is research , how do you know it is silly without reading the whole thing ? Whether or not it dead ends is up to me in the long run. Speculating on the side lines is distasteful especially if you are a scientist. This is simply a path, a part of research , this is not a conclusion.

People have laughed at methods, individuals , and ideas in science before. The end results are at the end of the race , and who comes in first and who comes in last is decided there , sir.

1. Guns don't make people pull the trigger or put people under some sort of hypnosis. People control guns.

Their are varying forms of hypnosis to everything cheese. People , and ideas of people control people. Sociality and events. Inanimate objects become organic stimulus in a way because of social influences. Active social stimulus's can be found in anything. The question here is if the degree is significant enough to give a hand gun "icon" and provoking properties. (not that you understand any of this.....)

2. Society hasn't created an image. There are no billboards advertising guns, you don't see people toting guns on America's Next Top Model. There is somewhat of an image for them in rap culture...but that's where it remains.

How is a gun relative to models ? Stay in a inventive , proper mindset please. Guns are relative to action movies, and politics. Social action, and reserved social action , protection. Guns are fearful, guns are power . Guns are in books, magazines , guns have iconic value.

3. A fire arm is a weapon that shoots bullets. Or should I get more technical?

Can you because this time you totally, completely missed the mark. Everything is never simply just there , something that is just there has no social relevance to anyone or anything. Everything is observed and altered continuously as everything around it favors those changes. A fire arm is not something that just shoots bullets, it is significant and much more than that. A bullet is useless without a purpose . Every bullet has a purpose because a gun is socially, economically popular and most guns are bought for personal or socially expressed reasons....

4. There are two main reasons why people buy guns, for sport (be it hunting or skeet shooting or whatever) or for protection. Crazies buy guns to kill people, but that can't really be counted into the general populous.

Crazies buy guns to murder people . Where as it is sane to protect what you love, and what loves you. Crazies buy guns to murder people if you want to be technical mr. technical .

The reasons why they buy were not the core of the argument, what they are buying was but you seem to miss the point entirely.

To reel this back on topic, there's no way to prevent the crazies from buying guns. The most effective way to oversee gun sales would be to have a psychological test accompany the background check. That of course wouldn't be feasible; it would cost too much to train the employees in how to administer the test and read the results, plus most killers do damn well at appearing like rational, normal people.

Yah you get back on topic you do not belong arguing with me.

The question here is if the degree is significant enough to give a hand gun "icon" and provoking properties .IF it is independent of people , and the media . See , that is why this is so hard to ask.

I want to know if the handgun stands alone , now, and if it provokes and controls situations.

March 8, 2008, 10:05 PM

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How is a gun relative to models

that technique is called a metaphor,
models influence us ie what we should wear and what we should look like, guns dont.

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Can you because this time you totally, completely missed the mark. Everything is never simply just there , something that is just there has no social relevance to anyone or anything. Everything is observed and altered continuously as everything around it favors those changes. A fire arm is not something that just shoots bullets, it is significant and much more than that. A bullet is useless without a purpose . Every bullet has a purpose because a gun is socially, economically popular and most guns are bought for personal or socially expressed reasons....

guns are bought because people need or want them and they are produced because there is a demand for them.
that is a basic principle of economics, the same works with everything, such as TVs

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(not that you understand any of this.....)

wow great way to respond to criticism.

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Guns are relative to action movies, and politics. Social action, and reserved social action , protection. Guns are fearful, guns are power . Guns are in books, magazines , guns have iconic value.

So what they are in action movies, they are a tool, they are used by people, guns cant fire themselves, any rational person realizes that its the people who fire guns that are the killers, not the guns.

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I want to know if the handgun stands alone , now, and if it provokes and controls situations.

of course they control a situation, say you and I are having a conversation, and i pull a gun, you are going to do whatever i want you to do or i'll cause you immense pain and maybe kill you.

but its still me thats controlling the gun, its not telling me to shoot you, if i decided to shoot you, i would have made that decision, not the gun

March 8, 2008, 10:54 PM

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Originally Posted by Placebo

that technique is called a metaphor,
models influence us ie what we should wear and what we should look like, guns dont.
I know what a bloody metaphor is. I do no think it was a good metaphor , looks and fashion have nothing to do with our code of conduct and how we act within any set of clothes. Perhaps they make fashion statements but they have nothing to do with guns...its a stretch ...a wide stretch.

guns are bought because people need or want them and they are produced because there is a demand for them.
that is a basic principle of economics, the same works with everything, such as TVs

That is bland, everything can be looked at deeper.

wow great way to respond to criticism.

It is criticism , criticism to criticism ?

So what they are in action movies, they are a tool, they are used by people, guns cant fire themselves, any rational person realizes that its the people who fire guns that are the killers, not the guns.

But the ideas surrounding a gun obliviously help . As you mention below. If no one knew anything about guns they would only fire them out of curiosity. We know alot about guns, or we think we do , the question that I keep trying to ask is if the gun itself can make us fire . A conditioned stimulus . Unconsciously if a gun inspires us to fire .

of course they control a situation, say you and I are having a conversation, and i pull a gun, you are going to do whatever i want you to do or i'll cause you immense pain and maybe kill you.

Yes, but this is not about the situation its about the gun . The gun is the situation . As a effective tool , it is an knowledgeable tool to man kind. Is it an independent tool in society . When looking at a gun behind glass what do you see, what speaks to you ? What mental picture is painted when you place yourself with that gun ?

Man does not rationalize gun activity he choses where it takes place. Gun activity is already defined, a mental picture is painted as you say hurt or killed. Gun activity is conditioned thoughts based on patterns of behavior. When you see a gun it controls a situation , and it controls you because you are giving into an active social stimulus. What you have been taught, and seen in society .

but its still me thats controlling the gun, its not telling me to shoot you, if i decided to shoot you, i would have made that decision, not the gun

That is the issue here, how much control does the gun actually have as a stimulus conditioned by society . Within your subconscious what does a fire arm actually become to you. I a away it will tell you to shoot if the scenario is relative or seems logical at that time. Things that could make it relative and logical are films you watch often, or general fears surrounding the gun as you admit to that make it powerful seeming.

I admit this side is alot harder to support, but an insults for it are not needed. It is hard enough to try to support to begin with but it does have potential behind it. Anyone want to join in and build this puzzle feel free to.

March 9, 2008, 4:44 AM

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Originally Posted by Korytco

So first off I can tell you have an ego, or at least some sort of problem with me.

Yes to the first, and I was only pointing out how your little research thing had nothing to do with your opinion on gun control, it only posed a bunch of psychobabble questions.

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People , and ideas of people control people.

You just killed your own argument there, buddy.

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How is a gun relative to models ? Stay in a inventive , proper mindset please. Guns are relative to action movies, and politics. Social action, and reserved social action , protection. Guns are fearful, guns are power . Guns are in books, magazines , guns have iconic value.

I was giving you an example. You act like they're such big icons, but I haven't seen any models carry them around in purses like chihuahuas. Yeah, wow, guns are in action movies. So are uber dramatic car chases and people driving off ramps and making impossible landings that would blow out the shocks and give you major concussions. You're not making that out to be an icon. Yes guns are in books and mags, they're a fact of life, they've been around for a good while now. There's nothing special about them.

If they were really an icon, they would be used to represent status, just like jobs or cars or houses. Granted, in gangster culture they represent status, but it's not something that spans multiple age groups and trends.

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A fire arm is not something that just shoots bullets, it is significant and much more than that. A bullet is useless without a purpose . Every bullet has a purpose because a gun is socially, economically popular and most guns are bought for personal or socially expressed reasons....

Yes, it is something that just shoots bullets. The purpose of bullets is to kill. Guns were made to be a more advanced weapon that had long-range capabilities in warfare. People buy them for protection, hunting, or sometimes just to collect them.

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Crazies buy guns to murder people . Where as it is sane to protect what you love, and what loves you. Crazies buy guns to murder people if you want to be technical mr. technical .

That's what I said in my last post.......good job parroting me

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Yah you get back on topic you do not belong arguing with me.

Yes, I concede, you're so out of my league that to prove it you use bad grammar.

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The question here is if the degree is significant enough to give a hand gun "icon" and provoking properties .IF it is independent of people , and the media . See , that is why this is so hard to ask.

Provoking properties? Guns don't provoke people into doing anything, they're inanimate objects with no mind-control powers. You're reading too much into guns.

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I want to know if the handgun stands alone , now, and if it provokes and controls situations.

It doesn't. The person pulling the trigger is the one in control.

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Originally Posted by Placebo

that technique is called a metaphor,
models influence us ie what we should wear and what we should look like, guns dont.

Seeee? He got it.

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guns are bought because people need or want them and they are produced because there is a demand for them.
that is a basic principle of economics, the same works with everything, such as TVs

Bingo. And what's the demand? Sport. Protection. Collecting.

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So what they are in action movies, they are a tool, they are used by people, guns cant fire themselves, any rational person realizes that its the people who fire guns that are the killers, not the guns.

Swords are used in action movies too. Do they control people as well?

March 9, 2008, 2:56 PM

I am not going to respond in a thread where my posts were deleted, where I already told you I was done arguing.

I hope this post does not get deleted, I already responded to both of you with big long responses and I do not feel like doing it again.

March 9, 2008, 6:02 PM

Yes Korytco and they were deleted because they were considered spam.
Just quoting someone and saying this:

that is spam.

Saying that your not going to post in this thread is spam. These are the rules of the forums, we do not allow spam. Either you contribute to the thread or not post at all. If you have any other issues you can always PM a moderator.

March 9, 2008, 6:04 PM

I replied within the quotes. You must have missed that. Sorry for our misunderstanding. I always reply within the quotes look in the ghost thread.

Peace out and back on topic, I just thought my argumentors should understand what happened.

Mod Edit: Post is now restored. It was just a big misunderstanding, we understand.

July 4, 2008, 3:00 AM

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Originally Posted by Erythritol

I have a serious, serious problem with gun control today. Gun control, in its current state, is so pathetic. Semi automatic and, increasingly, automatic weapons are readily available to those willing to shell out the cash and go through a very weak background check. The background check is absurd. They check criminal records and ask questions such as, "have you ever been institutionalized?" Here's a bloody newsflash: not everyone who is mentally unstable is institutionalized. Have any of the mall or school shooters been institutionalized? The answer is a resounding no.

Why is there a need for such heavy artillery? I honestly ask that question. I don't think anyone can give me an answer that satisfies me. Do you need an AK47 to hunt deer? I honestly don't think so. Those types of weapons have one purpose: killing other people. Why should weapons like these be available to the public? There is absolutely no justification.

I HATE the argument, "but if everyone carries a gun, then we'll all be safe!" No, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. That's like trying to cure AIDS with more AIDS. The result will only be more injuries and deaths. What if someone has a terrible temper and acts without thinking? Accidents happen. Fights happen. With more people carrying guns, more deaths would happen. Everyone wants to be a cowboy. Not to mention, if everyone believes that everyone else is carrying around a concealed weapon, they're more likely to shoot first, in self protection if they feel they are being threatened.

...Okay, um, guns aren't betatrons. They're relatively simple pieces of equipment. You point at something you want to kill, and you pull the trigger. It's not a difficult concept. With semi automatic weapons, you can pull the trigger and fire several times at your target. And guns ARE easy to obtain. If you don't have a criminal record, walk into your local Walmart, fill out a form, and congratulations, you have a gun. Or, alternatively, if you have a lot of money and do have a record, just bribe someone, and congratulations, you have a gun. Getting a gun is ridiculously easy, especially in certain parts of the United States.

I lol'd so hard at:

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That's like trying to cure AIDS with more AIDS

But I agree completely, even if you fail a background check it's easy to obtain one illegally. I mean look at Cho from the Vtech shootings, he got his illegally from what I've heard.

Yes the constitution states you have the right to bear arms to defend yourself, but it was written so long ago, it's ridiculously dated now.

And if you didn't have arms to defend yourself to begin with, you wouldn't have people attacking you with the guns as they wouldn't be available to begin with.

All arguements saying "guns r gud" are all flawed tremendously, such is the case with the "god hates fags" and all the Pro-lifers. In fact you'll probably notice that each of these arguements are shared by the same individuals.

July 4, 2008, 3:18 AM

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Originally Posted by Finnegan III