And some truly can't afford a child. They are disabled or otherwise unemployed. And while people are so concerned that a fetus comes to term they are very unconcerned about life after that. They'll "make do somehow" is not a sufficient answer when you are impoverished.

This is the flawed concept of something that would be irrelevant if the conditions were not met. It's like people say "how would you feel if they aborted you?"...but since I wouldn't be around how could I feel at all? It's the same here. It's irrelevant to the topic at hand.

It's not a human being. It's a cluster of cells. It's no more living than a cold virus. Should we protect the cold viruses?

And using the adoption option as "compromise" is a cop-out. A women who gives up a baby has more opportunity to suffer depression than if she aborts a few cells within her. Instead of forcing both mother and child to suffer because a few people are squimish we can make the situation better for both.

One more thing: believing you have the right to control what's in a woman's body is taking away her rights. You are not god.

Yes, especially if they grow up to become scientists and help cure things like Cancer and AIDS. Yeah, some kids now could become saviors of the future, but what about them too? I don't consider them cold viruses, I consider them living cells.

That's like saying suicide is a good thing. The child doesn't have to suffer at all - I'm sure when they're old enough to hear about why their mother gave them up, they would understand it. Besides, I think going through depression would be a heck of a lot better than killing a child you could have. Killing is worse than self guilt.

And people who are prolife aren't trying to be Gods. We're just trying to stop the useless killing going on in the world, which happens to include this. Obviously, we can't tell the women what to do, but maybe they can find a different way to solve a problem like this. Not go through an abortion.

Some people argue that it is not better for the child to be born because it's better for them not to live in such a world. But I differ and say how would you know until you try.

It's the same thing with woman who have been raped. Of course the incident was traumatic to the mother but should the mother make it traumatic for the child she is carrying? Should she avenge herself by killing the child of the man who raped her? I've read of where the children who were resulted from rape become outstanding people in there respective communities.

I say, let them live and foster them. All children need love and affection. They also need to love and give affection. And the world needs children to grow up to replace the old and run this world.

It's kinda like love: it's better to love than not to love at all. It's the same with life, it's better to live than not to live. Than again, life can be miserable but misery loves company so one more person to accompanied each other.

Again relating things to situations that may not occur. What if they grow up to be murderers or rapists, etc.? Wouldn't it be better to get rid of 'em before they can cause problems.

And they are living cells. So are viruses. You kill viruses and that's the equilvant as neither can do more than the other.

Again, you make up stuff in the situation. "I'm sure" is your opinion. You have no proof and thus your argument and nulled. And you are not killing a child. It is not a child before it is born. Again, wrong. It would be much better to get rid of a few cells before it becomes something that is born and causes a great deal of grief.

It is not killing because it is not alive in the more real sense of the word--at least no more than a virus cell. Prolife people are the sort of people who tell other people what to do with themselves. You have no right to tell anyone what they do with themselves. Do you have the right to tell a person how to live their life? No. So you have no right here either.

You clearly have no understanding of rape because people who are raped rarely feel the need for vengance against a child. Women who want to get rid of a few cells forced upon through a traumatic experience are only trying to minimize the torture they were put through. Until you experience it I shall you really shouldn't give an opinion, to be frank. Your assumptions are...offensive to be honest. Assuming a raped woman to be some sort of vengeful person is very unfair. Some (I dare say most) just want to be able to salvage some sort of a life after it was taken from them.

Is that so wrong?

And read above regarding your last sentence. You are again making assumptions. The child could end up being a murderer or something.

In our world that love and affection is a rare thing indeed and even rarer for one who was brought into without anyone to love them at all. You say "Love 'em or die!" but you're not accomplishing anything you do realize, right?

And really do you know how over-populated the world is? How many children die each breath we take because we foolishly stick to our antiquated notion of "make more babies!!!!!" and refuse to let people make choices for themselves?

As quaint as that all sounded sticking your head in the clouds isn't gonna erase the very real issues that people face on a daily. "Love, cheers, etc, etc." mean jackshit when people force other people to endure painful experience merely because they want a pretty picture on the outside and don't give a shit what's on the inside.

But hey, like they say, as long as it looks pretty on the outside who cares what goes on in the inside...right? *rolls eyes*

I don't have sympathy for people who engage in sexual activity using protection and it failing. "Oh no, we had sex and it actually did what it was meant to do!" *rolls eyes* Please. If you're going to engage, expect a child regardless. No surprises and regrets then.

But if you're one of those people who do it for pleasure and really don't want the child, I sympathize for the unborn child:


I disagree. Guilt and the like emotions are extremely strong things to deal with and weigh you down. Killing provides an end to this - a valid solution for some. It's linked to suicide, bringing up another touchy subject, but even so. It depends on whether or not one is willing to go through hell on earth or take an escape route. Abortion is like suicide, only they don't choose for themselves. They can't. They have no knowledge of their existence or who they are let alone these issues. To me, the child isn't living until it's out of the womb.

You're all in a battle about assumptions - whether the child could become someone great or someone horrible. The whole issue is assumption, as we're trying to decide on a definite answer to an indefinite future. It's an endless argument. Hence why I say let the mother decide for herself. Ease up a bit Dragonsoul, this subject has more opinion to it than fact. I support your views though.

And as to "the child doesn't have to suffer at all," Vincent'sLucrecia, true he or she doesn't have to, but unfortunately the orphanages aren't this perfect little solution. The debate of a good life is a toss-up just like the one about the kind of person the child grows to be.

Juke has a point in saying you don't know until you try, but it can't be forgotten that a lot of effort and care must be taken before the baby is actually released into the world. It's no easy feat, especially if the mother doesn't have support. To some people it seems as though those nine months are no problem at all, and to just pop the child in an orphanage for a solution. There's a lot more to it than that which needs to be considered.

I am not going to judge anyone for what ever reason they had an abortion.

After taking a pre natal biology course, I just can not support abortion. It is not for any religious reasons, it is just how I feel.

If anyone is interested in non christian groups that are against abortion and would like to see their arguements, I can direct you to some websites.

I don't agree with abortion but it's still perfectly legal, if not in the eyes of god. please dont' freak out because of that comment, just supporting a view. . .

btw, can't we keep threads on the subject of final fantasy? It is a forum site called FINAL FANTASY FORUMS, for anyone who has seemed to have forgotten.

1: This part of the forum is designed to debate these topics, not about final fantasy... (just a thought)

Anyway, personally Im pro choice. 100% of the way. And here are my resons, (Order does not stress my importance of that supporting idea)

1. Unwanted homes
If a mother does not want her child, or the father, and they agree they want an abortion. That saves a child from a cruel and unusually hard life. As a child we are molded, our mental, emotional thought process. Well if a child is unwanted they become neglected. And Neglect early in life causes alot of problems.

2. Expenses
Some people choose abortion simply on the basis that they can not afford a child. And trully they can't. My freind for example, her and her bf are having a child in a few months and neither of them have a job. Would I think any less of them should they abort. No, simply because the child now takes all the nutreints from her body, which because of the money problem is making her sick. Not only will this endager her life but the babys as well. Also after the baby is born, how are they to pay for three mouths to feed. Babies waste alot of food.

3. Foster Care
Alot of children who are deeply unwanted or the parents dont have adaquet funds to support there child, end up having the children put in foster care. Foster care is horrible. So many more complications and psychological disorders can and usually do occur in/with children who grow up in foster care. Its a horrible way to grow up.

4. Lack of Education/Poverty
Children who are born on less then *favorable* circumstances can and at time do create a lack of education and poverty. Let me explain.
Two teenagers lets say seniors in high school have sex at an after party from prom. They concieve a child. The father then has to cancel his plans for colledge and get a full time job. Now not only can he not go to any after high school training but he is stuck in a lower paying job. The mother is going to have the child midway through her colledge courses and also has to drop them due to the birth of her child. The mother can't find a job as no employer wants to hire an expecting mother. Now they are bound too each other with one low paying job.

Now, consiquently, the child who is born, doesn't seem education as important as neither of his parents went past high school. The child also doesn't go to post high school education and is also stuck in a low paying feild of work. (Both of these are not 100% accurate as it doesn't pertain only to that, however, in alot of times the first senario plays out. The second is bassed on psychological transmition between the child and its/his/hers environment growing up.

Also let me explain my belief in life
There are many points that I find in a persons life. These are
1. Moment of concievment (when your parents create you)
2. Moment of Birth (when your physically introduced to the world)
3. Moment of Recolection (when a child begins to fully see and is able to remember the world around him.)
4. Moment of Maturity (When a person becomes an adult, irregardless of age, this is when someone gains the ability to think, act, and communicate, rationally and maturly.)

I find that somwhere between being concieved and being born, the human being is evolved. An embreo is an embreo, but during that 9 month period a child develops. (Personal View) After a child has fully developed for the most part he is born. So while I am pro choice. Abortion should be illegalized at 8-9months...

Now please, dont refute my ideas bassed on religion, because Religion is a process of beliefs which forth most part, are narrow and straight forward. Christian are a prime example (im not ranting just its the best and usually most noticable way to explain.) Alot of christians will agree on one thing that the bible does but not on another. Gay marrige and war for example. Thou shall not kill is directly stated yet many soilders are christian.

Hope I didn't repeat myself 2 much. I know its long but instead of having someone argue my point of view, I gave them my point of view and reasoning, so if you have 2 argue my reasoning wrong first.

everyone deserves to have the choice