kill a child is sad even if it wasnt yours even if you got this child because of unwanted means, killing a child is a sin this child is brought into this life and its soul has a chance of living and enternal life.........what is better a child dieing before life or a child born and there for having a soul and a chance to live eternal in the kingdom of our divine maker?

ya but it could be

I've got nothing against abortion. Until the moment of birth I don't consider babies to be alive. Hell, I don't remember being aware of anything until I was at least 2 years old. I'd rather a woman aborted her kid instead of bring it into a poor environment where it will not get a good upbringing.

thats why the goverment should give money and check up on them

When you refuse to allow the mother the right to terminate an embryo you are choosing between the mother's rights and the embryo's right's. One take predecence over the other--IMO, an actual intelligent being that is human should take predecence over a cluster of cells.

It cannot think, it cannot feel, it has no peception of pain or anything. That dosen't qualify for individual, IMO. Animals have more preception and we still don't say they are humans now do we?

What does that have to do with my statement? The point of the matter is that we are "killing" things that have more sentience then an embryo ergo it's highly contradictory to kill those things and not an embryo.

Naturally. But proof tends to enlighten...but it can't if people ignore the proof. You can tell someone the sky is blue but if people ignore you no amount of scientific proof will do anything.


That's an interesting point. The horse however will never gain the sentience that the child will likely attain.

...What? No. Unless you're living with cannabals most people don't eat other people.

Again, what relevance does that have to my statement...?

Which category are you placing yourself? In the one where you look to find a way to see that richer people support the poor or the rich type that tries to avoid paying for the poor. Clarify.

Yeah, actually you are in an indirect manner. By forcing women to have children they never wanted you force them to raise kids that would not otherwise have. So this is a strain on the family and they resort to begging or going to social assistance. Or the government pays for the foster care of a unwanted kid and the many legal, educational and basic needs of the child people like you would force the world to take. Where do you think social assistance gets it's money from? Where do you think the government gets that money from?

"The fruits of our dedicated work".

I see them as being equal and parallel, a situation where one can only do nothing.

I would no sooner kill one or the other.

And my point is that it may indeed be wrong, but I would do no differently were it necessary for me to survive and function efficiently.

Those are exactly the kind of people I fear coming into power or influence. Sure, they may not have committed any crime, but I think it is apt to label their view of the world 'warped'.


If you are making a point of such future sentience, you must also account for the fact that the child will eventually gain just as much of it as the mother.


You said 'necessity'.

The person who does whatever he wants with his money, be he rich or poor, so long as he pays those deserving of his pay, for whatever deed. Generosity is fine, but it should never be enforced.

I never said it is necessary for them to raise their offspring. I would most admire leaving them in an orphanage if not, but, fundamentally, they can cast them out into the street for all I care. I do not believe there is any automatic obligation for a parent to care for their child.

Any fair government is entitled to a common tax from the population, in return for protecting their rights. What they do with this tax is no more my concern than what my own neighbour does with his week's wages, though, if they want a stable nation, they should use it to answer common needs such as health and policing, rather than needs specific to certain groups in society, like childcare and education. It is only where this escalates into incondign excess that I am in opposition of. Then it is nothing more than theft.