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Reload this Page Abortion - your views.
 
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Old October 11, 2006, 3:42 PM   #11
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I belive it's necessary as a last resort and nothing else. Abortion should be the last thing you should be thinking about when you have a baby. Correction: Abortion and giving your child up for research. In my opinion.
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Old October 13, 2006, 3:06 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge Ghis
I wouldn't expect any woman to be forced to keep a child from a rape, sure the child didn't ask to be born, but the woman didn't asked to be raped either, so she has the right to do what she wants, without having a guilty feeling inside her.

Women shouldn't have to wait 9 months to give birth to an unwanted child. If they did, and they put it up for adoption, when that child finds out that they were a mistake which happened from a horrible attack, what's it going to do them mentally? It'd mess my mind up I know.

I'm for it, to a certain extent, just don't use abortion if you had sex without protection, because then you are just being pathetic.
Of course. Anyone has the right to do anything, whether be right or wrong. I don't know about other women, but I for one would feel guilty doing it to my own child. She may be unwanted, but still the child is a part of you. He/she came from you..wanted or not, you should be responsible for them.

Putting them to an adoption center is not good, I agree with that. But it's a hell lot better than aborting the child. Yes, it will affcet the child's way of thinking, but still it may vary from every child.
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Old October 18, 2006, 12:24 AM   #13
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Good grief, I forgot about this thread entirely.

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Originally Posted by Kajie View Post
I am a believer. And our religion says that abortion is a sin.
If you don't mind my asking, what is your religion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kajie
But..if ever I don't believe in any GOD. I will never go support abortion. Abortion is an act of murder.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kajie

Abortion=Murder Killing=Murder Abortion=Killing Killing=Sin

Then, Abortion is a sin. It's very logical, right?
And abortion is an act of stealing too. You are stealing a life that is not yours. You are stealing the child's right to live.
To an extent, I agree. Yes, you're technically killing, but at what point does life begin? Conception? Birth? 20 weeks? Doctors are still unsure, so how can WE be sure? We can't, we just follow what our religion/belief says. Are you killing something, if it does not live?

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Originally Posted by Kajie
But still it's your decision to make. No one can tell you what to do. Still..whatever you decision is..the word CONSCIENCE..will be with you..
If you had a strong opinion and did it for valid reasons, you should have no regrets. Now, for my full opinion.

I support the Pro-Choice view. As some Pro-Lifers state, that baby has a right to live, because it is an individual. Surely, then, the mother has the right to live how she wants, be it as a parent or not. The mother should have the right to choose what happens to her and what is rightfully hers. The mother will have to go through nine months of pregnancy and for what? For something she doesn't want. Keeping the baby will screw with it's head in later years, whilst adoption often does the same.

Mothers should make the choice of whether or not she will allow the baby to use her body for the next nine months, then take the majority of her life after that. What's the point in being a mother if you don't want to be one? It's like buying a car, but being scared of driving, subsequently, wishing not to drive.

Adoption seems practical, but if a child grows up and discovers that his mother did not want him, how would that make you feel? It would likely send you into despair and depression, in some cases, suicide. Sure, you may have a loving family (or in some cases, not so much), but wouldn't you rather be with your own mother and/or father?

In the case of rape, I heartily approve of abortion. It's the exact same as a mother not wanting the child, except now, in this case, the father did not mean to create him. The father did not love the mother, did not care for a childs well being and does not deserve to bear a child into the world. Does a child deserve the mental tortue of knowing he was accidental and unwanted? Torture seems like a worse sin than putting someone out of their misery, if you ask me.

If parents did not use contraception, that's their own damn fault, but their choice is still there. Same rules apply. If, however, contraception was used and conception still occured, there is yet another reason to allow abortion.

I am Pro-choice because I do not allow any religion, or anyone else for that matter, to cloud my judgement. I believe religion does not fully allow people to make their own decisions on things, but that's a whole different argument
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Old November 5, 2006, 3:08 PM   #14
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An embryo is just as sentient as any mother. It has just as much right to live and develop life. Infringement of that right is known as murder. Murder forfeits one's own right to live.

That is my reasoning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riku View Post
To an extent, I agree. Yes, you're technically killing, but at what point does life begin? Conception? Birth? 20 weeks? Doctors are still unsure, so how can WE be sure? We can't, we just follow what our religion/belief says. Are you killing something, if it does not live?
The general idea is that life is sentience. Which a conceptual embryo has been proved to possess.

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If you had a strong opinion and did it for valid reasons, you should have no regrets.


Beliefs and opinions do not change the fact of whether an action is moral or not.

Quote:
I support the Pro-Choice view. As some Pro-Lifers state, that baby has a right to live, because it is an individual. Surely, then, the mother has the right to live how she wants, be it as a parent or not. The mother should have the right to choose what happens to her and what is rightfully hers. The mother will have to go through nine months of pregnancy and for what? For something she doesn't want.
That is like saying that I have the right to murder someone who annoys me because I have the right to live the way I want, without annoyance.

Quote:
Adoption seems practical, but if a child grows up and discovers that his mother did not want him, how would that make you feel? It would likely send you into despair and depression, in some cases, suicide. Sure, you may have a loving family (or in some cases, not so much), but wouldn't you rather be with your own mother and/or father?

In the case of rape, I heartily approve of abortion. It's the exact same as a mother not wanting the child, except now, in this case, the father did not mean to create him. The father did not love the mother, did not care for a childs well being and does not deserve to bear a child into the world. Does a child deserve the mental tortue of knowing he was accidental and unwanted? Torture seems like a worse sin than putting someone out of their misery, if you ask me.
It seems to me that only a qualified psychologist should be making assumptions like this.

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I am Pro-choice because I do not allow any religion, or anyone else for that matter, to cloud my judgement. I believe religion does not fully allow people to make their own decisions on things, but that's a whole different argument
I would like to leave on the note that I, too, go by an entirely secular mind. I use reason and logic to determine anything moral or immoral. And I see little to hint that abortion is anything but immoral.
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Old November 5, 2006, 5:09 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Ximruccilim View Post
Beliefs and opinions do not change the fact of whether an action is moral or not.
And who, exactly, decides how moral any act is? There is no higher power that decides what we should/should not do, so we have to act on our own accord, doing what is best for ourselves.

Quote:
That is like saying that I have the right to murder someone who annoys me because I have the right to live the way I want, without annoyance.
That's quite different. That person isn't there by accident, he is there by his own choice. Murder wouldn't be necessary, because you can take legal actions to prevent him from harassing you. However, it would be compulsory for the child to stay with the mother (with the exception of adoption) and some view abortion as the only option. I don't see why people are against the fact that someone has their own opinion on something. Let them do it, it's not affecting you, personally. If the time came, and you had to make the decision, then you can dispute with people (not you personally, just "you" as in society).

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It seems to me that only a qualified psychologist should be making assumptions like this.
That's my opinion. If it's elaborate, so be it. I'm not particularly bothered if someone else has a dispute with it.

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And I see little to hint that abortion is anything but immoral.
Once again, that's your view. But I think you already know that.
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Old November 5, 2006, 5:46 PM   #16
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And who, exactly, decides how moral any act is? There is no higher power that decides what we should/should not do, so we have to act on our own accord, doing what is best for ourselves.
If that was true, then society would operate on total individualistic convenience, with no laws active. If it is best for one to steal, he should do so. Likewise with all other acts designed to better the self with no regard for others' rights.

No. There is a concrete 'higher power', as such, in the form of morality formed by logical analysis of the rights of oneself and others, so that our argument against any sanction of murder, rape and tyranny is not simply 'I believe differently'. Each human has the capacity of reason to decide whether any act is moral or not, though there are a myriad of interpretations even within this philosophy. My interpretation is that abortion is wrong, but should you or anyone present logic that proves this false, I am ever ready to change.

Quote:
That's quite different. That person isn't there by accident, he is there by his own choice. Murder wouldn't be necessary, because you can take legal actions to prevent him from harassing you. However, it would be compulsory for the child to stay with the mother (with the exception of adoption) and some view abortion as the only option.
Perhaps it was a weak analogy. Let me offer another one - I have the right to choose to live in a big and luxurious house, even if it is eternally impossible for me to muster the wealth to afford such a place. Therefore, I am entitled to eliminate its true owner and take over.

Yes, I know in that case, the fact of 'the owner is there by choice and not accident' applies, but how does this make his right any more stable? Even if it is not the embryo's choice, it is still sentient, and existing within the mother's body. Even if it had the choice whether to live or not, I suppose it would. Even if it was not supposed to exist, it does, and thus has its natural rights granted by the act of being.

Quote:
I don't see why people are against the fact that someone has their own opinion on something. Let them do it, it's not affecting you, personally. If the time came, and you had to make the decision, then you can dispute with people (not you personally, just "you" as in society).
The problem is that people with these 'opinions', should they come into a position of power, could have us living in quite the autocracy tomorrow, a result of the spread of their warped ethics.

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That's my opinion. If it's elaborate, so be it. I'm not particularly bothered if someone else has a dispute with it.
And opinions require good foundation to be credibly accepted.

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Once again, that's your view. But I think you already know that.
It is not a view. It is a fact that I have yet to see how the murder of an embryo is condonable. One can only treat this fact as unimportant by arguing that I am short of sight, which may be so. If so, I will need to be enlightened through progressing argument.

And it appears to me that the basis of your argument is the insinuation that the mother's rights to choice of life are somehow superior to that of the child's, along with some generalising theories about causing death before birth being more humane than allowing a child to grow up without parental contact, even if it is in a perfectly-comfortable environment. Any of this may be true, but I will need to be shown how. Until then, it befits me to assume that every being is equal in right to life.

EDIT:
Quote:
Let me offer another one - I have the right to choose to live in a big and luxurious house, even if it is eternally impossible for me to muster the wealth to afford such a place. Therefore, I am entitled to eliminate its true owner and take over.
Actually, that is kinda partly in effect already, with the ludicrous benefits our government is handing out to louts, which the achievers have to be taxed incondignly for. A very dark pit it is we descend into.
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Old November 7, 2006, 3:39 PM   #17
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I think the true confusion in all of this is that people are assuming that a child and an embryo are the same thing and that an embryo is as sentinent as a human. This is an error. An embryo is a collection of cells that cannot think or feel and is no more alive than a virus in your body. If we can use antibodics to kill a virus in our body why not do so for a embryo?

Quote:
Even if it was not supposed to exist, it does, and thus has its natural rights granted by the act of being.
Simply because it does exists it should exist? Hardly. There are many things in this world that exist that shouldn't and we eliminate it to make for a better society and a better life for the individual.

Quote:
The problem is that people with these 'opinions', should they come into a position of power, could have us living in quite the autocracy tomorrow, a result of the spread of their warped ethics.
Point of the matter is that everyone has a different idea on almost everything. Nothing is as black and white as people often it as. Just because a person has a different opinion does not necessarily make them warped.

Quote:
And it appears to me that the basis of your argument is the insinuation that the mother's rights to choice of life are somehow superior to that of the child's, along with some generalising theories about causing death before birth being more humane than allowing a child to grow up without parental contact, even if it is in a perfectly-comfortable environment. Any of this may be true, but I will need to be shown how. Until then, it befits me to assume that every being is equal in right to life
This harkens back to earlier in my post--the collection of cells is not the same thing as an actual human being who can think and feel. If this were true we shouldn't be allowed to kill animals or plants or even that flu that we've all had.

I consider myself of a higher importance than a flu.

Quote:
Actually, that is kinda partly in effect already, with the ludicrous benefits our government is handing out to louts, which the achievers have to be taxed incondignly for. A very dark pit it is we descend into.
You've either never been poor or you've forgotten what it is like. Unless the person is either lazy or deceiving donations to the needy is more than acceptable. Some people don't start off with a silver spoon in their mouth after all.
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Old November 7, 2006, 6:39 PM   #18
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I think the true confusion in all of this is that people are assuming that a child and an embryo are the same thing and that an embryo is as sentinent as a human. This is an error. An embryo is a collection of cells that cannot think or feel and is no more alive than a virus in your body. If we can use antibodics to kill a virus in our body why not do so for a embryo?
An embryo features sensory receptors, just as does any other living organism. Thought is a different matter, and is not often the matter referred to in consideration of rights.

Viruses threaten to kill or seriously hamper us. I have no renitence towards eliminating an embryo, or any other being, if it does that.

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Simply because it does exists it should exist? Hardly. There are many things in this world that exist that shouldn't and we eliminate it to make for a better society and a better life for the individual.
So an individual must be eliminated so that life may be better for the individual? Or do you mean, rather, 'individuals', suggesting that one person must be lost for the sake of many, an ochlocratic 'common good', as it were? Unless so, the logic in that seems paradoxical.

Quote:
Point of the matter is that everyone has a different idea on almost everything. Nothing is as black and white as people often it as. Just because a person has a different opinion does not necessarily make them warped.
So you are saying that it is impossible for any viewpoint to be valid or invalid?

Quote:
This harkens back to earlier in my post--the collection of cells is not the same thing as an actual human being who can think and feel. If this were true we shouldn't be allowed to kill animals
Which I do not if I can avoid it.

Quote:
or plants
Well, no one can really avoid this. But rights and justice come to nothing when one does not have food on one's plate.

Quote:
or even that flu that we've all had.

I consider myself of a higher importance than a flu.
I consider myself of a higher importance than anything that actively seeks to harm me.

Quote:
You've either never been poor or you've forgotten what it is like. Unless the person is either lazy or deceiving donations to the needy is more than acceptable. Some people don't start off with a silver spoon in their mouth after all.
Nor does anyone automatically deserve a silver spoon in their mouth. Donations are only acceptable if they are granted willingly, no matter how great the need for them is.
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