The holy spirit

June 24, 2008, 12:26 PM

I found out something yesterday...

It states clearly in the bible that Jesus will forgive the sinful and admit them in to the kingdom of heaven should they confess their sins and atone. Murder, biggotry, adultery, the lot. No matter what. Even if you should blaspheme and dismiss Jesus' existence he will still forgive you.

However, if you should deny the existance of the holy spirit, ye are eternally damned. No turning back. Even if you so much as slightly doubt the holy spirit, you're done for. No heaven for you. You will never be forgiven. Ever.

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"Truly I say unto you, All their sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter: but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin: because they say, ‘He has an unclean spirit’." - Book of Mark 3:28-29

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You want control? It's right there in the bible, it may very well be moderate, but it's most certainly there.

If I were a devout Christian hoping for salvation and eternal life with God then I certainly wouldn't seek out theories that disprove my faith in the fear of being eternally damned. Surely, this must scare young Christians witless.

You wanna know what this reminds me of? One of those tall tales your mother used to tell you to keep you in line as a child. "Don't go outside or the bad man will get you". That kind of thing. It's emotional blackmail. You want to go outside because you're a child, the outside world amazes young minds. Just like a Christian may want to learn other ways of looking at religion because it would amaze them, it would be magnificent for them to learn and to grow. But just like the child would be scared of being taken away by the "bad man", Christians will be scared of being eternaly damned.

Control. It's right there in the bible.

Your thoughts?

June 24, 2008, 12:45 PM

It's just like you said Emotional Blackmail, I'm not a believer, like how do you know that the priests didn't write the bible or something and if they were trying to control you by spreading those things?

I don't believe in these things and shouldn't the god is the one who forgives you not the Jesus?

it just doesn't seem right

June 24, 2008, 12:56 PM

Of course it doesn't seem right to people who don't believe.

Basically, some people believe Jesus is kinda God himself, but more or less in human form.

People who blaspheme against the Holy Spirit wouldn't be Christians anyway. Faithful ones anyway would not even think of saying such a thing. If you're true to your Faith, blaspheming against the Spirit would never happen.

Though I do think there could be hope - I mean, there were people who were predicted to turn away from God, worship over Gods not known by their fathers, and God would punish them. But if they truly came to Him, they would be forgiven, and they would be blessed once more.

I'm sure if God knows it's something you are truly sorry for, he can forgive you. If anyone wants me to, I can get in contact with some of my Christian friends, who have been longer in the Faith then I have - they maybe able to shed some light on the situation more.

Referring to that Unclean Spirit comment, I take it comes before Jesus's death. Everyone has one really. Jesus died for a reason, to take away our Sins. I honestly believe that if you are sincere and sorry for blaspheming against the Spirit, you will be forgiven.

I have a Quran, and several books on Buddhism, but in no way do I criticise my God in any way, shape or form. I just like to research, as do other followers.

..sorry if that makes no sense, I don't often debate and all that jazz.

June 24, 2008, 2:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zegram

Of course it doesn't seem right to people who don't believe.

Basically, some people believe Jesus is kinda God himself, but more or less in human form.

People who blaspheme against the Holy Spirit wouldn't be Christians anyway. Faithful ones anyway would not even think of saying such a thing. If you're true to your Faith, blaspheming against the Spirit would never happen.

Though I do think there could be hope - I mean, there were people who were predicted to turn away from God, worship over Gods not known by their fathers, and God would punish them. But if they truly came to Him, they would be forgiven, and they would be blessed once more.

I'm sure if God knows it's something you are truly sorry for, he can forgive you. If anyone wants me to, I can get in contact with some of my Christian friends, who have been longer in the Faith then I have - they maybe able to shed some light on the situation more.

Referring to that Unclean Spirit comment, I take it comes before Jesus's death. Everyone has one really. Jesus died for a reason, to take away our Sins. I honestly believe that if you are sincere and sorry for blaspheming against the Spirit, you will be forgiven.

I have a Quran, and several books on Buddhism, but in no way do I criticise my God in any way, shape or form. I just like to research, as do other followers.

..sorry if that makes no sense, I don't often debate and all that jazz.

Maybe I should have made this clearer... I'm referring more or less specifically toward young Christians. The naive minds that have been force fed tall tales since the cradle. Being told what you can't think must be very frightening for a child especially if you tell them that if they do think it they're to spend all eternity with Satan in the fiery depths of hell, never to be forgiven by your "saviour".

I understand the fact that older and wiser Christians would never doubt the holy spirit because they truly understand what it means and how it is pertinent to them as a Christian, but a child's mind works on a much lower level than an adults mind. They may not fully understand the fact that Christianity is pretty much a one way street in that area. Believe outright or be eternally damned.

As far as being forgiven by God if you are truly sorry: Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is an eternal sin. Eternal being the key word.

June 25, 2008, 6:43 AM

It's probably allegory, and as JR said, christians wouldn't blaspheme against the holy spirit.

Quote:

I found out something yesterday...

That's the point though isn't it?
The bible has something like 26 books, and so young naive christians probably wouldn't find out about it until they were older.
Also like JR said, Jesus is god. The father, the son and the holy spirit are god. It's a hard concept especially if you are an atheist, as Jesus was a real person, but is also god, and god's son.

Christianity isn't exactly fair to non christians, it's the same with every group of people.
Christians believe that everyone born before christianity is in hell.
Also which part of the bible is this in?

June 25, 2008, 2:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Placebo

It's probably allegory, and as JR said, christians wouldn't blaspheme against the holy spirit.

I'm not saying that Christians would blaspheme against the holy spirit. I'm trying to underline the fact that it must be terrifying for a young Christian pupil to be told that even thinking the holy spirit isn't real is an eternal sin. Children tend to have very vivid imaginations, to them "doubting" the holy spirit could be in the same mould as even thinking about the holy spirit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Placebo

The bible has something like 26 books, and so young naive christians probably wouldn't find out about it until they were older.

The holy spirit is something that is commonplace in curriculum in Christian schools throughout the world. Kids are being told everyday that blasphemy against the holy spirit is an eternal sin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Placebo

Also which part of the bible is this in?

Book of Mark 3:28-29.

June 29, 2008, 5:46 AM

Yeah, the control thing was really what turned me away from Christianity. It's a good path to follow but it gets shoved on people too much.

I used to be (sort of) a Christian. I believed in God, and I believed in Jesus, but I didn't believe he could achieve things like walking on water and feeding a zillion people with two fish. What turned me away from Christianity was the idea of Hell and how a "perfect" God could send someone he loves there. I didn't buy into that. The human soul is far too complex to be judged for eternity on the basis of what happened in one lifetime. Plus, I believed in reincarnation.

Long story short, I found the Goddess, turned away from Christianity and became a Wiccan over the course of a few months. There's no such thing as Hell in Wicca, not even a devil. There's more freedom in Wicca, plus the duality makes more sense and it isn't at all sexist. Now, I tell people I'm a Witch and they try to convert me

But I'm pretty happy with Paganism. Even if I am a "devil-worshiper".