So why exactly are we attacking religion? - Page 2

January 24, 2008, 12:59 PM

I don't know. I for one am Agnostic, but I respect religion, and don't bash anything except stupid cults.

February 15, 2008, 2:59 AM

I don't suppose my word goes for much here, but... perhaps we attack religion, because religion attacks us, just look at all the wars and fueds that spawn from religion. Perhaps if we all put our faith in each other, rather than a being that might not even exist... We could all get along..?

February 18, 2008, 1:19 AM

Lol, you don't understand the mindset of humanity very well then.

Humans fancy themselves to be social creatures. They are in certain respects, but it is unnatural for them to NOT be racist. I don't say that in a racist mindset or anything, I'm very pro-racial-equality, but that is human nature.

Humans fear things different from them. This fear takes hsape in many ways, not the least of which is trying to stamp out whatever frightens you. You see a bear, you either run away or try to kill it. Human mindset of fight or flight. Why do you think slavery happened in the first place? The Imperialists were threatened by the religions of the areas they were colonizing, and they wanted their religion to be supreme. Hence all the subsequent slavery. Christians used the story of Noah to support slavery.

The section they used involves how Noah's son had sex on the ship. To cut a long story short, Noah's kid has sex with his girlfriend, God punishes him by turning him black, and the kid becomes subservient to Noah. Total bullshit in my opinion, and I'm sure most people will agree with me.

But now I've gone completely off-tangent...

Basically, humans don't get along together anywhere near as well as they think they do, or that they'd hope the could. It's in a human's nature to be hateful and destructive of differences. The time when we live in peace and shed religion for the greater good is a long ways off, my friend, a LONG ways off.

February 18, 2008, 5:05 AM

Racism? No, in my mind their is only one important race, one that religon and peopld seem to overlook...the HUMAN race.

As for religon, I always believed that it was a way to get closer to God. Many people and cultures see God in a different way and found their way to enlightenment. If you've led a good life believing in Buddha, that's okay. Allah? That's fine. Whatever pushes you to be the best person you can be, believe in it and never lose your faith. That's what religon is to me. Faith...

February 18, 2008, 5:29 AM

The problem with religion is the small minded people that occur within all religious groups that don't seem to realise that what you believe doesn't matter and that as long as people are happy with their faith and live a good life that is all that matters.
Some people insist that their religion is the only true one and if you aren't following it then you are evil, this stems the root of a lot of the problems. However at the same time religion is used as an excuse to wage war and intensify arguement because it is the most convenient means as an arguement in religion can never be won.
Trying to convince someone to change what they believe is impossible so when people try this is what often leads to problems. On top of this ridiculous made up cults like scientology make a mockery of true religious orders which waters down the whole message and creates and image that many do not take seriously.

February 19, 2008, 6:52 PM

I'd like to believe that, but when you look at what the bible says in Christianity, one can't help but notice that the religion itself is partially at fault. You say that every religion might have its extremists, but when their holy book tells them to torture and kill non believers, and to convert others who don't believe the same as you, or when there are so many wars and violence described in the bible, particularly those condoned by the deity himself, it's hard not to blame the religion as well. As I have said before, there are two parts to this problem: the people for believing it purely out of faith, and the book for saying the nasty things.

February 21, 2008, 2:28 PM

Religions are essentially modern day tribes. Yeah, it may seem that there will always be humans attacking humans, but may i use Buddhist monks as an example here? How many Buddhists do you see killing each other and offending each other..? The way I see it, if 'God' DOES exist, he created us to LIVE not to praise him all day long. I'm not saying religion is the only cause of hostility, but the clash of two faiths will always cause upset.

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Lol, you don't understand the mindset of humanity very well then.

I disagree, that's a primal instinct, that is easy to overcome with the will to do so

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They are in certain respects, but it is unnatural for them to NOT be racist.

Again, I disagree, Buddhists live one WITH nature, but dont fight each other. So how does that work?

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It's in a human's nature to be hateful and destructive of differences.

That only applies to people that believe it.

In fact, here's a thought, maybe the way we have developed, Eg, currency, groups of people (eg religion) has just turned the whole instinct to survive into the the instinct to own, and dominate.

February 21, 2008, 8:50 PM

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Originally Posted by Nightsway

I disagree, that's a primal instinct, that is easy to overcome with the will to do so

Agreed, but I was referring to humanity as a whole, not groups or individuals. I consider a lot of Buddhism to be on a far higher plane than most humans, myself included, can get to.

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Again, I disagree, Buddhists live one WITH nature, but dont fight each other. So how does that work?

Not quite. Buddhists do fight, they just do not do it violently or angrily. Why else do you think there are so many factions? Theravada Buddhism, for example, is against the concept of a soul. Most other Buddhist factions are in favour of a soul. Big dispute there, but it does not have anger, hatred, violence, etc. in it.

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That only applies to people that believe it.

In fact, here's a thought, maybe the way we have developed, Eg, currency, groups of people (eg religion) has just turned the whole instinct to survive into the the instinct to own, and dominate.

You make an excellent point. It DOES only apply to people that believe it, but I believe it simply because of what I have seen and heard of humanity.

I also agree with your statement about how the instincts have changed. Instinct never disappears, it only changes. As our society 'evolved,' so did our needs to survive as a social race, and so did our instincts with it. Our instincts are simply our minds way of telling us the best way to survive. It is, in short, our survivalist psyche. Without it, we wouldn't be where we are now.

If this is true, then we can logically assume that greed and tyrrany have become the instincts of leaders. Not all leaders, but some. Hussein, Bush, bin Laden, Hitler (for a more well-known example, he DID throw the Northern world itself into a war, after all), and many others learned, through their lives, how to survive in society. That seems to be how our instincts are driven, nowadays: what society wants it to be, or how we react and involve ourselves in society.

Religion accepts and defies this all at the same time. They'll be part of a society, but they'll do it their way. I'm all for it, but when it comes to banging on people's doors and basically shoving their religion down their throats, I want them to get the fuck away from there. I have nothing wrong with religion itself, it makes perfect sense to me why people rely on faith rather than reason in our world. That being said, there is such a thing as an extreme. And a a lot of religions take it to that extreme.

And that extreme returns to instinct: they've learned to do that in their society, because doing that ends up giving them less punishment from the society they are a part of. They do what they do because their preferred society wants them to do it. Yes, they may want to do it, but that's because all societies, in a way, brainwash the people in them. A bit of an extreme term, I admit, but it is still the truth. If a child was able to rear itself, away from society, and, when it finally became an adult, choose to be a Jehovah's Witness or a Muslim, who do you think it would choose?

I don't think it would choose either. Technically speaking, a child must be reared and cannot rear itself, but if given the true free will like that, it would become neither. Why? Because the way its grown up is probably radically different from those faiths. It has learned through its life of self-preservation to do whatever it can to stay alive, and it didn't learn it in society. Hence, it will function differently in society, act irrationally in reference to our standards. It will have beliefs based on what it has seen; some will be logical, some might not be.

Anywho, that's my two cents for now.